Niners trade for #3 overall

Originally posted by zeppfan1:

Originally posted by TyCore:
Ok...I'm not getting it. I have questions.

Trading 3 1sts for a higher 1st to draft a QB who isn't going to play this upcoming year?

...AND they don't know who it's going to be, but they like their options?

Was this an overpay? Are ShannyLynch absolutely THAT enamored with our prospects at #3?

They're swapping firsts this year
A 2022 and 2023 1st = 2 first rounders lost
A 2022 3rd Comp pick.

3 total picks, 2 first rounders

The more accurate way to represent it is three 1sts and a 3rd for a higher 1st.

It tells the whole story and doesn't trivialize the value from going from 12th to 3rd, which there's an obvious value difference.

Originally posted by OneNDone:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by AceDuce49:

Originally posted by Howlett49:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by Howlett49:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by Howlett49:

Originally posted by mattster03:

Originally posted by Howlett49:

Originally posted by Niners99:
We just traded three 1sts and a 3rd to take the 3rd ranked QB in the class. Better be right about him.

2 firsts but whose counting?

No. It is 3 first even if you're swapping firsts it still counts as a first

Basic math. If you give up 3 and gain 1 the net is 2.

why do you have to explain this? god damn our education system sucks

He's right.

3 firsts plus a 3rd for a rookie qb. Why is that not right? Let's say miami drafted trey lance at #3. The 49ers give up #12 2021, 2022 1st and 2023 1st and 2021 for trey lance. That's three firsts and a third for trey lance. Why is that hard to understand.

Lol. The extra wording isn't going to make you right. It's 2 firsts homie

Tell me how I'm wrong.

2021 1st
2021 3rd
2022 1st
2023 1st

For

Mac Jones

That is 3 firsts and a 3rd for Mac jones. If it's mac jones.

Bro! We gave up 3 total 1sts. We received 1 first. 3-1=2.

Please stop. You're making yourself look bad

Lol, how do people not understand we gave them our #12 and they gave us their #3?

THEYRE STILL USING A FIRST ON A QB. AND they gave up 2 additional firsts. THAT is 3. One two three.

That's using three first round picks and a 3rd for a rookie qb. the original poster was saying just that. they used 3 firsts and a 3rd. Let that register.

Wait... How is moving up 9 spots giving up a pick?(not directed at you Steve)

It's not. We gave up 2 firsts to upgrade our 1st round pick to a higher 1st round pick. Literally blows my mind that people dont understand that 3-1=2.

Originally posted by Howlett49:

Originally posted by mattster03:
People are confusing "trading" vs. "giving up". Niners are trading 3 firsts, but giving up 2. The original post said "trading" so 3 is the correct number for that word. /discussion

Before you cry and say it's because we traded 3 firsts, try thinking about what we gained. Then when you post you can say we gave up 2 firsts and next years third for the number 3 pick this year. And then when you finally use the words two firsts instead of three, you will finally be correct

How about if you call up ever single major sporting news outlet and tell them they're wrong that the Niners only traded 2 first round picks as they all have it in their article titles. Yeah, you're definitely right!

Originally posted by BSofSF:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Yup, that's the Franchise QB is a position you *have* to pay through the nose to solidify. I don't think it's Mac Jones either, because Kyle already has Jimmy to be Mac Jones. If I was Kyle, I'd love to have a dynamic athlete (a Steve Young kind of talent) to sit behind a pocket QB in Jimmy. Specially if the rookie is a guy that can pass *and* run like Steve. Those kinds of players are extremely rare and you have to spend what you need to spend to get a shot at talents like that. The gamble is what if the rookie is a bust? Well that's 40% chance of that happening so what, it's 100% fail if you don't take the chance. But the upside is more intriguing. If you can get a guy that can pass and run, that's a QB that is pretty much unstoppable if he has good players surrounding him.

Jimmy took them to the Super Bowl in 2019. That's not 100% fail. Hit Sanders on the deep pass. That's far from certain failure.

Jimmy's missed a lot of games. His health is one of the reasons this trade was done. When your franchise QB goes down twice and both years - you basically lose your shot at the playoffs - there are going to be consequences to both player and coach. I think this is going to motivate Jimmy the way Steve pushed Joe to win two more super bowls before he retired. Jimmy's been too eager in my opinion to take on linebackers when he should be sliding and going out of bounds, well now if he does stupid things like trying to go through linebackers -- it gives a talented rookie a shot at his job. Jimmy's going to think twice about taking on Bobby Wagner when he escapes the pocket.

Here's my concern. You will have the top 3 or 4 picks all at QB. History says that only 1 of those will actually pan out. Hoping, praying that it is ours. Two positives things that we have over the others that will help a rookie QB is a genius HC in Kyle and a good team surrounding him.

Originally posted by BSofSF:
No, it's not bogus logic. Players from great programs can be tricky to evaluate because you don't know if it's them or their supporting cast. Ohio State has a proven formula to dominate at the collegiate level. That hasn't yet translated to great NFL QBs. There may be one that disproves the theory, like Aaron Rogers coming from Cal, but right now that Ohio State thesis is not debunked.

It is bogus logic because you evaluate the player, you don't evaluate the program. Great programs get great players, that applies to QB too. That hasn't always been the case at Ohio State though where they favored the system over the talent. You can't compare Fields in anyway to guys like Joe Germaine, Troy Smith, Terrelle Pryor or Cardale Jones. He's simply a better pure passer than any of them. Since Urban Meyer has left, they've transitioned to an offense that is less gimmicky and includes more pro style concepts overall.

Its the same sort of logic that people used about Air Raid QB's when most of them were late round picks or guys who never really had a chance due to their team situation(Tim Couch). So there was a belief that Air Raid QB's simply couldn't work at the NFL level. Pat Mahomes comes along and suddenly everyone is cool with Air Raid QB's.

All it takes is one Ohio State QB to come in and tear it up and that talking point dies. I don't know if Fields is that guy but I do know that he's the most talented QB to come out of Ohio State by a country mile.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by OneNDone:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by AceDuce49:

Originally posted by Howlett49:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by Howlett49:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by Howlett49:

Originally posted by mattster03:

Originally posted by Howlett49:

Originally posted by Niners99:
We just traded three 1sts and a 3rd to take the 3rd ranked QB in the class. Better be right about him.

2 firsts but whose counting?

No. It is 3 first even if you're swapping firsts it still counts as a first

Basic math. If you give up 3 and gain 1 the net is 2.

why do you have to explain this? god damn our education system sucks

He's right.

3 firsts plus a 3rd for a rookie qb. Why is that not right? Let's say miami drafted trey lance at #3. The 49ers give up #12 2021, 2022 1st and 2023 1st and 2021 for trey lance. That's three firsts and a third for trey lance. Why is that hard to understand.

Lol. The extra wording isn't going to make you right. It's 2 firsts homie

Tell me how I'm wrong.

2021 1st
2021 3rd
2022 1st
2023 1st

For

Mac Jones

That is 3 firsts and a 3rd for Mac jones. If it's mac jones.

Bro! We gave up 3 total 1sts. We received 1 first. 3-1=2.

Please stop. You're making yourself look bad

Lol, how do people not understand we gave them our #12 and they gave us their #3?

THEYRE STILL USING A FIRST ON A QB. AND they gave up 2 additional firsts. THAT is 3. One two three.

That's using three first round picks and a 3rd for a rookie qb. the original poster was saying just that. they used 3 firsts and a 3rd. Let that register.

Wait... How is moving up 9 spots giving up a pick?(not directed at you Steve)

It's not. We gave up 2 firsts to upgrade our 1st round pick to a higher 1st round pick. Literally blows my mind that people dont understand that 3-1=2.

GAVE UP 2. YES. Original poster said "traded 3" which is CORRECT and did not need to be corrected.

Originally posted by TD49ers:

Originally posted by Hopper:

Kyle Shanahan had success with Matt Ryan and he and Mike Shanahan had a love for Kirk Cousins.
Agree with Simms here.
I see @MacJones_10 as the 49ers' pick and @treylance09 as the fallback.
That is mocking Trevor Lawrence and Zach Wilson as the first two picks. https://t.co/AMPs42OTLD

— Chris Mortensen (@mortreport) March 26, 2021

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
Kyle's BFF disagrees. And now has no reason to not be honest since nobody can jump in front of the 49ers.

49ers-Dolphins...Kyle Shanahan trying to control his own fate. You trade up to 3 for a QB who is NFL-ready right now, not a project. And to me that says Mac Jones.

— Chris Simms (@CSimmsQB) March 26, 2021

I am thinking this too. Like it or not. I dont see them moving up for Lance (project) or Fields (OSU does not develop NFL QBs). I hope they keep JG around for a year. They wanted depth at QB.

all in for a guy with a ceiling that's likely...Jimmy G.

That would be so stupid!

Originally posted by mitpdub:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by SanFranFanfrmVa:
You don't trade to #3 for Mac Jones. The 49ers want an athletic QB.

You trade to whatever spot you can if you don't want to wait for #12. Look at the draft list:

1. Jacksonville Jaguars *
2. New York Jets *
3. Miami Dolphins via Houston Texans
4. Atlanta Falcons *
5. Cincinnati Bengals
6. Philadelphia Eagles *
7. Detroit Lions
8. Carolina Panthers *
9. Denver Broncos *
10. Dallas Cowboys
11. New York Giants

All those 6 * teams will be picking a QB if they think the value is there. Every one of them would jump at the chance to replace their current QB with Mac Jones. With four consensus quality QBs available, you get nothing at #12. So, you look at trading up. Cincy already said "no." Atlanta is going to draft Ryan's replacement. Philly was out of the mix early. Carolina and Denver are going QB if they can. The only option was #3. None of the intermediate choices were available.

I don't think the Jet's draft QB at #2, but I'm afraid they could trade that pick to : Falcons, Panthers, or Broncos and absolutely rake them for picks and steals our thunder.

That's the crux of why I think this was not only the best move, it was also the only realistic move to get a QB this season. It is clear JG is not the future and until/unless he plays back to 2019, he isn't worth much in trade. So, trade up to make sure you have the FQB. Barring another injury disaster like 2020, this team will not be anywhere close to making this kind of deal in the foreseeable future.

I would encourage you guys not to be wrong on the internet

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by BSofSF:
No, it's not bogus logic. Players from great programs can be tricky to evaluate because you don't know if it's them or their supporting cast. Ohio State has a proven formula to dominate at the collegiate level. That hasn't yet translated to great NFL QBs. There may be one that disproves the theory, like Aaron Rogers coming from Cal, but right now that Ohio State thesis is not debunked.

It is bogus logic because you evaluate the player, you don't evaluate the program. Great programs get great players, that applies to QB too. That hasn't always been the case at Ohio State though where they favored the system over the talent. You can't compare Fields in anyway to guys like Joe Germaine, Troy Smith, Terrelle Pryor or Cardale Jones. He's simply a better pure passer than any of them. Since Urban Meyer has left, they've transitioned to an offense that is less gimmicky and includes more pro style concepts overall.

Its the same sort of logic that people used about Air Raid QB's when most of them were late round picks or guys who never really had a chance due to their team situation(Tim Couch). So there was a belief that Air Raid QB's simply couldn't work at the NFL level. Pat Mahomes comes along and suddenly everyone is cool with Air Raid QB's.

All it takes is one Ohio State QB to come in and tear it up and that talking point dies. I don't know if Fields is that guy but I do know that he's the most talented QB to come out of Ohio State by a country mile.

Yeah, yeah, nobody cares. Dude, are you really saying Cal is a great program????

Originally posted by mattster03:

Originally posted by Howlett49:

Originally posted by mattster03:
People are confusing "trading" vs. "giving up". Niners are trading 3 firsts, but giving up 2. The original post said "trading" so 3 is the correct number for that word. /discussion

Before you cry and say it's because we traded 3 firsts, try thinking about what we gained. Then when you post you can say we gave up 2 firsts and next years third for the number 3 pick this year. And then when you finally use the words two firsts instead of three, you will finally be correct

How about if you call up ever single major sporting news outlet and tell them they're wrong that the Niners only traded 2 first round picks as they all have it in their article titles. Yeah, you're definitely right!

They only put that as a headline because it looks like an even more splashy trade. People that know math know what's up

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:
i think he's got the most off-script arm talent.

my biggest worry is his some of his measurables, like hand size and his overall size.

Lance is obviously the most raw and has higher bust potential because of that, but possibly the highest upside out of everyone in this draft.

Mac is just never going to be able to do the things that Wilson, Fields, or Lance can do, but if his football IQ is that high to go with his above average arm strength, but great accuracy, he can be the best player in this class

but Fields for me is the safest one. he checks out on the measurables, played against elite competition and dominated games at times against said competition. has really high upside as well because of his athletic ability, to go along with a very good NFL arm. my only worry with him is his personality. i want my QBs to have some Brady/Rivers in them, and he's much more quiet and a lead by example type of guy.

Great synopsis.

At the end of the season, before the pro days the top 3 QBs were Lawrence, Wilson and Fields... it only makes sense to take whoever is left at 3. Jones has too many perceived limitations and Lance is too raw to risk it all on.

Yep. You trade this much, you don't to risk it on a guy who can be average (Mac) or a guy that has to sit for a while (Lance)

And some people might know how much I like Mac, I was posting more in that thread than in the Fields thread or Lance. But we didn't have the #3 pick then...This changes a lot of things. I believed that we had no chance at Fields dropping to #12, so Mac seemed like it would be a solid pick up.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by OneNDone:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by AceDuce49:

Originally posted by Howlett49:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by Howlett49:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:

Originally posted by TheGore49er:

Originally posted by Howlett49:

Originally posted by mattster03:

Originally posted by Howlett49:

Originally posted by Niners99:
We just traded three 1sts and a 3rd to take the 3rd ranked QB in the class. Better be right about him.

2 firsts but whose counting?

No. It is 3 first even if you're swapping firsts it still counts as a first

Basic math. If you give up 3 and gain 1 the net is 2.

why do you have to explain this? god damn our education system sucks

He's right.

3 firsts plus a 3rd for a rookie qb. Why is that not right? Let's say miami drafted trey lance at #3. The 49ers give up #12 2021, 2022 1st and 2023 1st and 2021 for trey lance. That's three firsts and a third for trey lance. Why is that hard to understand.

Lol. The extra wording isn't going to make you right. It's 2 firsts homie

Tell me how I'm wrong.

2021 1st
2021 3rd
2022 1st
2023 1st

For

Mac Jones

That is 3 firsts and a 3rd for Mac jones. If it's mac jones.

Bro! We gave up 3 total 1sts. We received 1 first. 3-1=2.

Please stop. You're making yourself look bad

Lol, how do people not understand we gave them our #12 and they gave us their #3?

THEYRE STILL USING A FIRST ON A QB. AND they gave up 2 additional firsts. THAT is 3. One two three.

That's using three first round picks and a 3rd for a rookie qb. the original poster was saying just that. they used 3 firsts and a 3rd. Let that register.

Wait... How is moving up 9 spots giving up a pick?(not directed at you Steve)

It's not. We gave up 2 firsts to upgrade our 1st round pick to a higher 1st round pick. Literally blows my mind that people dont understand that 3-1=2.

Nobody is disagreeing with you. But you're not looking at the original post. They traded 3 and got one back yes. That is a net of two picks to improve. But they are still using three firsts to get that rookie. The original post said that. Read it again. Read it 100 times. It blows my mind that this is still being argued.

For those holding colleges against prospects... who were the great QBs in recent memory to come out of Oklahoma, LSU, Oregon, Texas Tech before the Mayfields, Herberts, Burrows, Mahomes etc.?