All Pro OT Trent Williams

Originally posted by Scoots:
People are obsessed with injuries. He had one significant injury. There is nothing chronic about his injury past. Not only has he shown very high level athetic talent but also skill in pass pro and run blocking AND he has zone running experience. Supposedly every single NFL team when asked had him as a top 45 player even with the ACL, and top 10 if he hadn't been hurt.

I kind of hoped he'd slide a little further because he could be a stud for the next 15 years. Of course he could fall apart too ... but it was a bet that I felt was good to make.

All that said, I like Collins too and understand why they went for him.

Dude not all injuries are equal. A torn patellar tendon is vastly different than say a ACL. Go look at the statistics of a player going back to 100% after that injury. It's not good. Hopefully for him he's the outlier, this team can't afford to be taking those type of players at this point.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by ModestoNiner33:

Originally posted by Scoots:
Dang it. I wanted Josh Simmons in the draft (he went 11 picks before Collins), and now Kelce says he's the next Trent Williams.

All heresay till pads come on.

We don't know what Simmons medical looked like. He was the clear best tackle when on the field in the draft. Problem was with his injury and how it's a matter of not if he gets hurt but when.

People are obsessed with injuries. He had one significant injury. There is nothing chronic about his injury past. Not only has he shown very high level athetic talent but also skill in pass pro and run blocking AND he has zone running experience. Supposedly every single NFL team when asked had him as a top 45 player even with the ACL, and top 10 if he hadn't been hurt.

I kind of hoped he'd slide a little further because he could be a stud for the next 15 years. Of course he could fall apart too ... but it was a bet that I felt was good to make.

All that said, I like Collins too and understand why they went for him.

It was much more serious than an ACL . Tore his patellar tendon

This. That's why it's not a if he gets injured it's just a matter of time.

It's still just one injury. One injury does not make another injury certain to happen.

It's an injury that ends players careers

Not every player. It doesn't really matter since he's not a Niner, but there isn't reason to assume the worst.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Scoots:
People are obsessed with injuries. He had one significant injury. There is nothing chronic about his injury past. Not only has he shown very high level athetic talent but also skill in pass pro and run blocking AND he has zone running experience. Supposedly every single NFL team when asked had him as a top 45 player even with the ACL, and top 10 if he hadn't been hurt.

I kind of hoped he'd slide a little further because he could be a stud for the next 15 years. Of course he could fall apart too ... but it was a bet that I felt was good to make.

All that said, I like Collins too and understand why they went for him.

Dude not all injuries are equal. A torn patellar tendon is vastly different than say a ACL. Go look at the statistics of a player going back to 100% after that injury. It's not good. Hopefully for him he's the outlier, this team can't afford to be taking those type of players at this point.

While it's true not all injuries are equal, no injuries make it certain to recur. Also the younger the player is when the injury happens the better their chance of full recovery.

People talk about players being "injury prone" when usually it's bad luck or training or medical failures. There is always the potential for the last injury to be a players last injury for years. It happens that players who have 2 significant injuries then play healthy for years. Michael Jordan missed most of the season his second year in the NBA and people were probably saying he was injury prone at the time.

Most scouts agree that Simmons would have been a high 1st rounder without that injury. Some say top 5. If the injury was serious enough to make him slide back that far then it's a risk. Maybe he doesn't play until 2026. Who knows.

One thing I know for sure. If the Niners had picked him half the webzone would be calling it a typical reach like other injured players they drafted.

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by ModestoNiner33:

Originally posted by Scoots:
Dang it. I wanted Josh Simmons in the draft (he went 11 picks before Collins), and now Kelce says he's the next Trent Williams.

All heresay till pads come on.

We don't know what Simmons medical looked like. He was the clear best tackle when on the field in the draft. Problem was with his injury and how it's a matter of not if he gets hurt but when.

People are obsessed with injuries. He had one significant injury. There is nothing chronic about his injury past. Not only has he shown very high level athetic talent but also skill in pass pro and run blocking AND he has zone running experience. Supposedly every single NFL team when asked had him as a top 45 player even with the ACL, and top 10 if he hadn't been hurt.

I kind of hoped he'd slide a little further because he could be a stud for the next 15 years. Of course he could fall apart too ... but it was a bet that I felt was good to make.

All that said, I like Collins too and understand why they went for him.

It was much more serious than an ACL . Tore his patellar tendon

This. That's why it's not a if he gets injured it's just a matter of time.

It's still just one injury. One injury does not make another injury certain to happen.

It's an injury that ends players careers

Not every player. It doesn't really matter since he's not a Niner, but there isn't reason to assume the worst.

Im just going off of the %s of players that make it back after , I believe it was only like 50% that make it back, and that's not even factoring in how they perform. It's not a a run of the mill injury

Originally posted by Scoots:
While it's true not all injuries are equal, no injuries make it certain to recur. Also the younger the player is when the injury happens the better their chance of full recovery.

People talk about players being "injury prone" when usually it's bad luck or training or medical failures. There is always the potential for the last injury to be a players last injury for years. It happens that players who have 2 significant injuries then play healthy for years. Michael Jordan missed most of the season his second year in the NBA and people were probably saying he was injury prone at the time.

I think we're debating different things. I'm talking about a certain type of injury that has been a death blow for a ton of players in terms of ever being able to be who they were before (or just retiring like Richburg for example). I'm talking about Simmons and his particular injury.

You're debating the overall scope of "injury prone" and drafting injured players.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by ModestoNiner33:

Originally posted by Scoots:
Dang it. I wanted Josh Simmons in the draft (he went 11 picks before Collins), and now Kelce says he's the next Trent Williams.

All heresay till pads come on.

We don't know what Simmons medical looked like. He was the clear best tackle when on the field in the draft. Problem was with his injury and how it's a matter of not if he gets hurt but when.

People are obsessed with injuries. He had one significant injury. There is nothing chronic about his injury past. Not only has he shown very high level athetic talent but also skill in pass pro and run blocking AND he has zone running experience. Supposedly every single NFL team when asked had him as a top 45 player even with the ACL, and top 10 if he hadn't been hurt.

I kind of hoped he'd slide a little further because he could be a stud for the next 15 years. Of course he could fall apart too ... but it was a bet that I felt was good to make.

All that said, I like Collins too and understand why they went for him.

It was much more serious than an ACL . Tore his patellar tendon

This. That's why it's not a if he gets injured it's just a matter of time.

It's still just one injury. One injury does not make another injury certain to happen.

It's an injury that ends players careers

Not every player. It doesn't really matter since he's not a Niner, but there isn't reason to assume the worst.

Im just going off of the %s of players that make it back after , I believe it was only like 50% that make it back, and that's not even factoring in how they perform. It's not a a run of the mill injury

Sure, but you were talking like it's a certainty that he wouldn't be back.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Scoots:
While it's true not all injuries are equal, no injuries make it certain to recur. Also the younger the player is when the injury happens the better their chance of full recovery.

People talk about players being "injury prone" when usually it's bad luck or training or medical failures. There is always the potential for the last injury to be a players last injury for years. It happens that players who have 2 significant injuries then play healthy for years. Michael Jordan missed most of the season his second year in the NBA and people were probably saying he was injury prone at the time.

I think we're debating different things. I'm talking about a certain type of injury that has been a death blow for a ton of players in terms of ever being able to be who they were before (or just retiring like Richburg for example). I'm talking about Simmons and his particular injury.

You're debating the overall scope of "injury prone" and drafting injured players.

I'm doing both. My first response was to someone who said he would be injured again ... AKA injury prone.

And his specific injury is bad, but players have come back from it and the younger you are the more likely it is.

The thing is, he's talented enough that even with the injury he still went in the first round, so there is reason to think he can come back.

Also, the 49ers never got a chance to take him in the 2nd, so it doesn't really matter :)

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by ModestoNiner33:

Originally posted by Scoots:
Dang it. I wanted Josh Simmons in the draft (he went 11 picks before Collins), and now Kelce says he's the next Trent Williams.

All heresay till pads come on.

We don't know what Simmons medical looked like. He was the clear best tackle when on the field in the draft. Problem was with his injury and how it's a matter of not if he gets hurt but when.

People are obsessed with injuries. He had one significant injury. There is nothing chronic about his injury past. Not only has he shown very high level athetic talent but also skill in pass pro and run blocking AND he has zone running experience. Supposedly every single NFL team when asked had him as a top 45 player even with the ACL, and top 10 if he hadn't been hurt.

I kind of hoped he'd slide a little further because he could be a stud for the next 15 years. Of course he could fall apart too ... but it was a bet that I felt was good to make.

All that said, I like Collins too and understand why they went for him.

It was much more serious than an ACL . Tore his patellar tendon

This. That's why it's not a if he gets injured it's just a matter of time.

It's still just one injury. One injury does not make another injury certain to happen.

It's an injury that ends players careers

Not every player. It doesn't really matter since he's not a Niner, but there isn't reason to assume the worst.

Im just going off of the %s of players that make it back after , I believe it was only like 50% that make it back, and that's not even factoring in how they perform. It's not a a run of the mill injury

Sure, but you were talking like it's a certainty that he wouldn't be back.

No I wasn't. Never said he was injury prone, that he would be injured again or that he wouldn't come back. Said that specific injury is a lot more serious than an ACL, like you were comparing it to

Originally posted by Scoots:
I'm doing both. My first response was to someone who said he would be injured again ... AKA injury prone.

And his specific injury is bad, but players have come back from it and the younger you are the more likely it is.

The thing is, he's talented enough that even with the injury he still went in the first round, so there is reason to think he can come back.

Also, the 49ers never got a chance to take him in the 2nd, so it doesn't really matter :)

There's a difference between coming back from it and playing as well as you did prior. I'm having a real hard time finding any real great examples of guys coming back from it and being what they were prior for a real extended period of time. Like I said this type of injury is not like others. Patellar tendon ruptures f**king blow.

I'm not trying to say SF missed on not taking him, whatever there. This team needs to avoid serious injuries when drafting and this is near the top of the list of don't draft imo. For him I hope he can be the outlier.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by ModestoNiner33:

Originally posted by Scoots:
Dang it. I wanted Josh Simmons in the draft (he went 11 picks before Collins), and now Kelce says he's the next Trent Williams.

All heresay till pads come on.

We don't know what Simmons medical looked like. He was the clear best tackle when on the field in the draft. Problem was with his injury and how it's a matter of not if he gets hurt but when.

People are obsessed with injuries. He had one significant injury. There is nothing chronic about his injury past. Not only has he shown very high level athetic talent but also skill in pass pro and run blocking AND he has zone running experience. Supposedly every single NFL team when asked had him as a top 45 player even with the ACL, and top 10 if he hadn't been hurt.

I kind of hoped he'd slide a little further because he could be a stud for the next 15 years. Of course he could fall apart too ... but it was a bet that I felt was good to make.

All that said, I like Collins too and understand why they went for him.

It was much more serious than an ACL . Tore his patellar tendon

This. That's why it's not a if he gets injured it's just a matter of time.

It's still just one injury. One injury does not make another injury certain to happen.

It's an injury that ends players careers

Not every player. It doesn't really matter since he's not a Niner, but there isn't reason to assume the worst.

Im just going off of the %s of players that make it back after , I believe it was only like 50% that make it back, and that's not even factoring in how they perform. It's not a a run of the mill injury

Sure, but you were talking like it's a certainty that he wouldn't be back.

No I wasn't. Never said he was injury prone, that he would be injured again or that he wouldn't come back. Said that specific injury is a lot more serious than an ACL, like you were comparing it to

Sorry, it wasn't you, it was another user that started with "H" :)

https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/193926-all-pro-trent-williams-silverback/page507/#post7599

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by ModestoNiner33:

Originally posted by Scoots:
Dang it. I wanted Josh Simmons in the draft (he went 11 picks before Collins), and now Kelce says he's the next Trent Williams.

All heresay till pads come on.

We don't know what Simmons medical looked like. He was the clear best tackle when on the field in the draft. Problem was with his injury and how it's a matter of not if he gets hurt but when.

People are obsessed with injuries. He had one significant injury. There is nothing chronic about his injury past. Not only has he shown very high level athetic talent but also skill in pass pro and run blocking AND he has zone running experience. Supposedly every single NFL team when asked had him as a top 45 player even with the ACL, and top 10 if he hadn't been hurt.

I kind of hoped he'd slide a little further because he could be a stud for the next 15 years. Of course he could fall apart too ... but it was a bet that I felt was good to make.

All that said, I like Collins too and understand why they went for him.

It was much more serious than an ACL . Tore his patellar tendon

This. That's why it's not a if he gets injured it's just a matter of time.

It's still just one injury. One injury does not make another injury certain to happen.

It's an injury that ends players careers

Not every player. It doesn't really matter since he's not a Niner, but there isn't reason to assume the worst.

Im just going off of the %s of players that make it back after , I believe it was only like 50% that make it back, and that's not even factoring in how they perform. It's not a a run of the mill injury

Sure, but you were talking like it's a certainty that he wouldn't be back.

No I wasn't. Never said he was injury prone, that he would be injured again or that he wouldn't come back. Said that specific injury is a lot more serious than an ACL, like you were comparing it to

Sorry, it wasn't you, it was another user that started with "H" :)

https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/193926-all-pro-trent-williams-silverback/page507/#post7599

Yep and I stand by it. I guarantee he will miss significant time before his rookie contract is up.

Please spare me the "Trent Williams Doesn't Feel His Age" stories. Everyone with a brain knows he'll go down with a lower leg injury in the first five minutes of his first regular season game. Then we will be treated to "Trent Williams Working His Way Back From Injury" updates. Work in the NFL trenches is a dirty business. Opposing defensive ends know what needs to be done.

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by ModestoNiner33:

Originally posted by Scoots:
Dang it. I wanted Josh Simmons in the draft (he went 11 picks before Collins), and now Kelce says he's the next Trent Williams.

All heresay till pads come on.

We don't know what Simmons medical looked like. He was the clear best tackle when on the field in the draft. Problem was with his injury and how it's a matter of not if he gets hurt but when.

People are obsessed with injuries. He had one significant injury. There is nothing chronic about his injury past. Not only has he shown very high level athetic talent but also skill in pass pro and run blocking AND he has zone running experience. Supposedly every single NFL team when asked had him as a top 45 player even with the ACL, and top 10 if he hadn't been hurt.

I kind of hoped he'd slide a little further because he could be a stud for the next 15 years. Of course he could fall apart too ... but it was a bet that I felt was good to make.

All that said, I like Collins too and understand why they went for him.

It was much more serious than an ACL . Tore his patellar tendon

This. That's why it's not a if he gets injured it's just a matter of time.

It's still just one injury. One injury does not make another injury certain to happen.

It's an injury that ends players careers

Not every player. It doesn't really matter since he's not a Niner, but there isn't reason to assume the worst.

Im just going off of the %s of players that make it back after , I believe it was only like 50% that make it back, and that's not even factoring in how they perform. It's not a a run of the mill injury

Sure, but you were talking like it's a certainty that he wouldn't be back.

No I wasn't. Never said he was injury prone, that he would be injured again or that he wouldn't come back. Said that specific injury is a lot more serious than an ACL, like you were comparing it to

Sorry, it wasn't you, it was another user that started with "H" :)

https://www.49erswebzone.com/forum/niners/193926-all-pro-trent-williams-silverback/page507/#post7599

lol. sherlock holmes over here.

Dude was straight up bad yesterday