Wide receivers thread

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:

People should understand an elite WR1 is a luxury, not a need. Julio Jones, Megatron, Michael Thomas, Davante Adams, Mike Evans, AJ Green, Antonio Brown. All of them have a combined of 0 rings. The only top WR who won recently, unfortunately, is Tyreek Hill.
An elite TE is much more important, as we see with Gronk, Kelce and Ertz who all have been big factors for their superbowl teams.
What's required is WR who are good enough at the role they are supposed to execute, no need for them to be elite at the position. The same goes for RB who are interchangeable as socks.
Problem last season is the starters were Pettis and Goodwin, who were not even good or average at their job, but damn awful. Taylor should've been the slot starter but wasn't healthy (him and Jimmy had great chemistry).

Agree that a true elite #1 WR is a desire not a need to be an effective passing offense. There aren't many secondaries that are three deep at CB. I think having three WRs with "#2 WR" capability, coupled with a TE that demands attention is just as effective as having a #1 WR and a few other serviceable guys.

Also, having a #1 elite WR means having to allot a nice chunk of cap space to, and the need to retain him at all costs. Having a bunch of #2s makes it easier to find another #2 to plug and play if one of the current guys leave.

Sounds like SF is gonna take that chunk of cap space and just apply it to the TE, so it's kinda a wash anyway

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
People should understand an elite WR1 is a luxury, not a need. Julio Jones, Megatron, Michael Thomas, Davante Adams, Mike Evans, AJ Green, Antonio Brown. All of them have a combined of 0 rings. The only top WR who won recently, unfortunately, is Tyreek Hill.
An elite TE is much more important, as we see with Gronk, Kelce and Ertz who all have been big factors for their superbowl teams.
What's required is WR who are good enough at the role they are supposed to execute, no need for them to be elite at the position. The same goes for RB who are interchangeable as socks.
Problem last season is the starters were Pettis and Goodwin, who were not even good or average at their job, but damn awful. Taylor should've been the slot starter but wasn't healthy (him and Jimmy had great chemistry).

Agree that a true elite #1 WR is a desire not a need to be an effective passing offense. There aren't many secondaries that are three deep at CB. I think having three WRs with "#2 WR" capability, coupled with a TE that demands attention is just as effective as having a #1 WR and a few other serviceable guys.

Also, having a #1 elite WR means having to allot a nice chunk of cap space to, and the need to retain him at all costs. Having a bunch of #2s makes it easier to find another #2 to plug and play if one of the current guys leave.

Sounds like SF is gonna take that chunk of cap space and just apply it to the TE, so it's kinda a wash anyway

But a top TE doesn't make nearly as much as a top WR.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
People should understand an elite WR1 is a luxury, not a need. Julio Jones, Megatron, Michael Thomas, Davante Adams, Mike Evans, AJ Green, Antonio Brown. All of them have a combined of 0 rings. The only top WR who won recently, unfortunately, is Tyreek Hill.
An elite TE is much more important, as we see with Gronk, Kelce and Ertz who all have been big factors for their superbowl teams.
What's required is WR who are good enough at the role they are supposed to execute, no need for them to be elite at the position. The same goes for RB who are interchangeable as socks.
Problem last season is the starters were Pettis and Goodwin, who were not even good or average at their job, but damn awful. Taylor should've been the slot starter but wasn't healthy (him and Jimmy had great chemistry).

Agree that a true elite #1 WR is a desire not a need to be an effective passing offense. There aren't many secondaries that are three deep at CB. I think having three WRs with "#2 WR" capability, coupled with a TE that demands attention is just as effective as having a #1 WR and a few other serviceable guys.

Also, having a #1 elite WR means having to allot a nice chunk of cap space to, and the need to retain him at all costs. Having a bunch of #2s makes it easier to find another #2 to plug and play if one of the current guys leave.

Sounds like SF is gonna take that chunk of cap space and just apply it to the TE, so it's kinda a wash anyway

But a top TE doesn't make nearly as much as a top WR.

A top TE is much more valuable imo. Gronk, Kelce and Ertz have helped their teams win a SB, while Julio, MT, Megatron, etc have never done it. They are weapons in the run and pass game. Elite TE are much more difficult to find, you see so many first round TE busting while elite TE comes from 3rd and 5th round pick.

Originally posted by thl408:

But a top TE doesn't make nearly as much as a top WR.

Apparently ya'll are fine with him making that much...so which is it

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by thl408:
But a top TE doesn't make nearly as much as a top WR.

Apparently ya'll are fine with him making that much...so which is it

I knew my thought would be confusing because it is. I didn't say he will be paid like an elite WR, the payscale won't allow it (WRs get paid more than TEs), I said he deserves to be paid like an elite WR because he's that valuable. I don't think he (Kittle) will get what he truly deserves.

"I know he won't be paid like the top WR in the league, but he has merit to deserve it."

Anyway, to my point in this particular thread, having an elite #1 WR would take up a big chunk of cap space to retain him. Having an elite TE won't take up as large a chunk.

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:

A top TE is much more valuable imo. Gronk, Kelce and Ertz have helped their teams win a SB, while Julio, MT, Megatron, etc have never done it. They are weapons in the run and pass game. Elite TE are much more difficult to find, you see so many first round TE busting while elite TE comes from 3rd and 5th round pick.

Rice did it? Julio made that stupid catch that very well could have won the SB, he sure as s**t wasn't the reason they lost.

LOL don't bring up Detroit and SB....I'll bet money Johnson wins a SB if he played in NE or with Manning. Speaking of which, D Thomas won a SB in Denver, no? Same with Marvin Harrison.

How many Super Bowls did Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates win?

It's a very subjective take you can find examples on both ends. IMO end of the day having a stud WR in no way hurts your team, same if you have a great TE.

You can reset the TE market and not have to pay Kittle almost twice as much as the top guy in the process. I mean when Quinton Nelson is due for a contract should he be paid as much as the top LT? Should Jamal Adams makes as much as the top CBs?

Originally posted by thl408:

I knew my thought would be confusing because it is. I didn't say he will be paid like an elite WR, the payscale won't allow it (WRs get paid more than TEs), I said he deserves to be paid like an elite WR because he's that valuable. I don't think he (Kittle) will get what he truly deserves.

"I know he won't be paid like the top WR in the league, but he has merit to deserve it."

Anyway, to my point in this particular thread, having an elite #1 WR would take up a big chunk of cap space to retain him. Having an elite TE won't take up as large a chunk.

It will be interesting to see how it plays out...imo there's zero chance SF let's him walk though. At min he plays this yr and can be tagged multiple times which is probably cheaper for them based on the TE market. I don't feel like Kittle would want to play out his contract and only get $2M this yr, I got a feeling something gets done before the season starts.

I feel the only WR on this roster that has the potential to dominate is Hurd. All other WRs on this team are...limited.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
A top TE is much more valuable imo. Gronk, Kelce and Ertz have helped their teams win a SB, while Julio, MT, Megatron, etc have never done it. They are weapons in the run and pass game. Elite TE are much more difficult to find, you see so many first round TE busting while elite TE comes from 3rd and 5th round pick.

Rice did it? Julio made that stupid catch that very well could have won the SB, he sure as s**t wasn't the reason they lost.

LOL don't bring up Detroit and SB....I'll bet money Johnson wins a SB if he played in NE or with Manning. Speaking of which, D Thomas won a SB in Denver, no? Same with Marvin Harrison.

How many Super Bowls did Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates win?

It's a very subjective take you can find examples on both ends. IMO end of the day having a stud WR in no way hurts your team, same if you have a great TE.

You can reset the TE market and not have to pay Kittle almost twice as much as the top guy in the process. I mean when Quinton Nelson is due for a contract should he be paid as much as the top LT? Should Jamal Adams makes as much as the top CBs?

Rice is the GOAT we will never see anyone like him. An elite TE is more valuable and difficult to find, that is a fact. If you have a great TE and good WR you're good to go. Elite WR are good for fantasy football.

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:

Rice is the GOAT we will never see anyone like him. An elite TE is more valuable and difficult to find, that is a fact. If you have a great TE and good WR you're good to go. Elite WR are good for fantasy football.

Kelce was found in the 3rd, Kittle found in the 5th, Ertz in the 2nd, Gronk in the 3rd etc...scheme/QB is just as important to a TE as well. I love Kittle he's my favorite Niner. You think he'd be crushing it if he was drafted by Miami? Would he be an all-pro under Bruce Arians? Nope.

Kittle and shanahan are like peas and carrots. It's a perfect combination.

If it was so "easy" to find an elite WR, why are they paid top dollar? Why has SF been drafting a WR every yr for over a decade and haven't had an "elite" WR?

Saying a elite TE is more valuable is a subject take, it depends on the coach and scheme....It's actually not a fact.

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
A top TE is much more valuable imo. Gronk, Kelce and Ertz have helped their teams win a SB, while Julio, MT, Megatron, etc have never done it. They are weapons in the run and pass game. Elite TE are much more difficult to find, you see so many first round TE busting while elite TE comes from 3rd and 5th round pick.

Rice did it? Julio made that stupid catch that very well could have won the SB, he sure as s**t wasn't the reason they lost.

LOL don't bring up Detroit and SB....I'll bet money Johnson wins a SB if he played in NE or with Manning. Speaking of which, D Thomas won a SB in Denver, no? Same with Marvin Harrison.

How many Super Bowls did Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates win?

It's a very subjective take you can find examples on both ends. IMO end of the day having a stud WR in no way hurts your team, same if you have a great TE.

You can reset the TE market and not have to pay Kittle almost twice as much as the top guy in the process. I mean when Quinton Nelson is due for a contract should he be paid as much as the top LT? Should Jamal Adams makes as much as the top CBs?

Rice is the GOAT we will never see anyone like him. An elite TE is more valuable and difficult to find, that is a fact. If you have a great TE and good WR you're good to go. Elite WR are good for fantasy football.

people are far to casual with the term "elite". Especially applied to WRs.

If you think getting "first downs" is important

If you think getting "TDs" is important

if you think getting "yardage" is important

if you think "yards per catch" is important

if you think "catches" is important

The top 10 best historical WRs beats the top 10 best TEs hands down.

Originally posted by Dshearn:

people are far to casual with the term "elite". Especially applied to WRs.

If you think getting "first downs" is important

If you think getting "TDs" is important

if you think getting "yardage" is important

if you think "yards per catch" is important

if you think "catches" is important

The top 10 best historical WRs beats the top 10 best TEs hands down.

Agreed

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:
A top TE is much more valuable imo. Gronk, Kelce and Ertz have helped their teams win a SB, while Julio, MT, Megatron, etc have never done it. They are weapons in the run and pass game. Elite TE are much more difficult to find, you see so many first round TE busting while elite TE comes from 3rd and 5th round pick.

Rice did it? Julio made that stupid catch that very well could have won the SB, he sure as s**t wasn't the reason they lost.

LOL don't bring up Detroit and SB....I'll bet money Johnson wins a SB if he played in NE or with Manning. Speaking of which, D Thomas won a SB in Denver, no? Same with Marvin Harrison.

How many Super Bowls did Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates win?

It's a very subjective take you can find examples on both ends. IMO end of the day having a stud WR in no way hurts your team, same if you have a great TE.

You can reset the TE market and not have to pay Kittle almost twice as much as the top guy in the process. I mean when Quinton Nelson is due for a contract should he be paid as much as the top LT? Should Jamal Adams makes as much as the top CBs?

Rice is the GOAT we will never see anyone like him. An elite TE is more valuable and difficult to find, that is a fact. If you have a great TE and good WR you're good to go. Elite WR are good for fantasy football.

people are far to casual with the term "elite". Especially applied to WRs.

If you think getting "first downs" is important

If you think getting "TDs" is important

if you think getting "yardage" is important

if you think "yards per catch" is important

if you think "catches" is important

The top 10 best historical WRs beats the top 10 best TEs hands down.

Elite means top 5. You can list them for WR in Julio, Nuk, MT, Hill and Adams. Then it's a wide list of very good receivers like AJ Green, Diggs, Lockette, Thielen, Golladay, Kupp, Evans, Cooper, Sutton, AJ Brown, etc.
It shouldn't be hard to find good receivers like every other team does, our FO just seem to suck evaluating this position. Hopefully Aiyuk and Hurd complement Samuel because no other team has wasted more picks on receivers.
For TE only Kittle, Kelce and Ertz enter the elite category (we'll see how Gronk comes back). Behind them, how many guys are actually legit TE1 for their teams? I can think of Waller, Hunter Henry, Hooper and that's it.
Now to have a top TE, who is great at both catching and blocking, is like having an extra OL who can convert to WR1 any snap. How many guys like that are in the league? So many TE are just like tall receivers who can't block, or very good blockers who can't catch. It's one of the hardest positions to transition from college to pros, also hard to scout (George Kittle was a blocking TE according to most scouts because he didn't have a long highlight reel).
I'm actually glad the TE position is cheaper than the WR. A more important position taking a cheaper deal? That's great for the team.

Originally posted by Joecool:
I feel the only WR on this roster that has the potential to dominate is Hurd. All other WRs on this team are...limited.

the guy took like 1 hit in pre-season last year and was barely cleared to start practicing again. i agree that he's got a lot of physical tools you want but he's going to be out of the NFL very soon (hope i'm wrong but i'll be shocked if he ever becomes anything in the NFL)

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:

Originally posted by Dshearn:

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:

A top TE is much more valuable imo. Gronk, Kelce and Ertz have helped their teams win a SB, while Julio, MT, Megatron, etc have never done it. They are weapons in the run and pass game. Elite TE are much more difficult to find, you see so many first round TE busting while elite TE comes from 3rd and 5th round pick.

Rice did it? Julio made that stupid catch that very well could have won the SB, he sure as s**t wasn't the reason they lost.

LOL don't bring up Detroit and SB....I'll bet money Johnson wins a SB if he played in NE or with Manning. Speaking of which, D Thomas won a SB in Denver, no? Same with Marvin Harrison.

How many Super Bowls did Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates win?

It's a very subjective take you can find examples on both ends. IMO end of the day having a stud WR in no way hurts your team, same if you have a great TE.

You can reset the TE market and not have to pay Kittle almost twice as much as the top guy in the process. I mean when Quinton Nelson is due for a contract should he be paid as much as the top LT? Should Jamal Adams makes as much as the top CBs?

Rice is the GOAT we will never see anyone like him. An elite TE is more valuable and difficult to find, that is a fact. If you have a great TE and good WR you're good to go. Elite WR are good for fantasy football.

people are far to casual with the term "elite". Especially applied to WRs.

If you think getting "first downs" is important

If you think getting "TDs" is important

if you think getting "yardage" is important

if you think "yards per catch" is important

if you think "catches" is important

The top 10 best historical WRs beats the top 10 best TEs hands down.

Elite means top 5. You can list them for WR in Julio, Nuk, MT, Hill and Adams. Then it's a wide list of very good receivers like AJ Green, Diggs, Lockette, Thielen, Golladay, Kupp, Evans, Cooper, Sutton, AJ Brown, etc.
It shouldn't be hard to find good receivers like every other team does, our FO just seem to suck evaluating this position. Hopefully Aiyuk and Hurd complement Samuel because no other team has wasted more picks on receivers.
For TE only Kittle, Kelce and Ertz enter the elite category (we'll see how Gronk comes back). Behind them, how many guys are actually legit TE1 for their teams? I can think of Waller, Hunter Henry, Hooper and that's it.
Now to have a top TE, who is great at both catching and blocking, is like having an extra OL who can convert to WR1 any snap. How many guys like that are in the league? So many TE are just like tall receivers who can't block, or very good blockers who can't catch. It's one of the hardest positions to transition from college to pros, also hard to scout (George Kittle was a blocking TE according to most scouts because he didn't have a long highlight reel).
I'm actually glad the TE position is cheaper than the WR. A more important position taking a cheaper deal? That's great for the team.

Based on The last paragraph, when Kittle was out we got a taste of what Dwelley could do and in that N.O. Game he sure impressed with fighting for passes, making nice catches and then fighting like mad for the first down. And his blocking has always seemed exemplary. Don't rule him out if kyle uses him this yr.