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WR Jordan Matthews Is a TE. And now released, again. And a 49er, again.

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  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 60,541
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by NCommand:
see, just when some write him off. i see this..

said the same exact thing about Bourne as well
i know,. lol.. when a coach stops talking about you. then you are in trouble
i understand you and nc have agendas so i will have to read between the lines with your posts more moving forward
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by NCommand:
see, just when some write him off. i see this..

Coaches talk about their own players all the damn time. See Trent Brown 2017. See Carlos Hyde, heck even Tank got talked up alot too. Eli Harold got talked up too if you remember.
Originally posted by Scarlettlove:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Like I already stated what I thought about throwing out his inflated #s in philly...this backs it up even more....

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2017/6/7/15728632/jordan-matthews-stats-eagles-philadelphia-garbage-time-inflated-contract-nfl-wide-receiver-slot

This was written back in 2017 when he was actually sorta something
I don't hate Jordan Matthews. I felt the need to tell you that because I'm anticipating a lot of criticism and negative response on this post. I also felt the need because it's true. Matthews is a hard-working, likeable guy. If money weren't a factor, I'd probably want to keep Matthews around in Philly for quite some time.
But that's the problem. Money is absolutely a big consideration with the NFL salary cap in place. And I think there's a strong case to be made Matthews, who is set to be a free agent after this season, will not be worth the money he commands.
It all comes down to the stats. If/when Matthews and his agent approach the Eagles in contract negotiations, there's little doubt Matthews' numbers will be brought to the table. Since being drafted in 2014, Matthews has racked up 225 receptions for 2,673 yards and 19 touchdowns. Since 1920, only 41 wide receivers have posted better numbers in their first three seasons.
Of course, stats don't always tell the whole story. This is especially true when it comes to Matthews. As I've stated numerous times before, Matthews' stats are inflated. There are three main reasons why.

1 - The Chip Kelly Effect

Kelly was arguably the most fantasy football friendly head coach in the NFL during his tenure with the Eagles. His fast-paced offense made it so that Philadelphia often ran a lot more offensive plays than other teams. More plays meant more statistical opportunities for the players. Here's a look at how the Eagles ranked in offensive plays per game during the Kelly era (while Matthews was also on the team) PLUS the first year of Doug Pederson's tenure, which also saw the Eagles run a lot of plays.
2014 - 1st (70.7)
2015 - 2nd (68.9)

2016 - 4th (67.5)
It's no coincidence a number of players had career years in Kelly's scheme. It was a volume-boosting offense. But while Kelly's scheme looked successful in terms of volume, it did not hold up in terms of efficiency. It doesn't matter how plays you run if you're not gaining yards on them.
Matthews gained a lot of production simply based on the fact the Eagles ran so many plays over the past three years.

2 - The Best Of The Worst

Matthews' stats aren't just the result of the Eagles running a lot of plays. They're the result of the Eagles running a lot of plays ... and having no other viable targets to catch passes. Check out the last three years of Eagles receiver targets.

2016 Eagles wide receiver targets
1 - Jordan Matthews - 117
2 - Dorial Green-Beckham - 74
3 - Nelson Agholor - 70
4 - Josh Huff - 17
5 - Paul Turner - 14
6 - Bryce Treggs - 12
2015 Eagles wide receiver targets
1 - Jordan Matthews - 127
2 - Nelson Agholor - 44
3 - Riley Cooper - 41
4 - Josh Huff - 40
5 - Miles Austin - 31
6 - Jonathan Krause - 4
7 - Seyi Ajirotutu - 3
2014 Eagles wide receiver targets

1 - Jeremy Maclin - 143
2 - Jordan Matthews - 105
3 - Riley Cooper - 95
4 - Josh Huff - 8
5 - Jeff Maehl - 5
6 - Brad Smith - 3
Other than the 2014 season when Maclin was still around, it's not exactly like Matthews had much competition in terms of targets. He became the obvious No. 1 guy as soon as 2015. Some of that is a credit to Matthews for not being as awful as the other receivers, but a lot of it has to do with the fact the Eagles have employed some truly dreadful "pass catchers." The quarterbacks had to throw to someone, and Matthews ended up being that guy.

Moving forward, there's a two-fold argument with Matthews regarding the Eagles' improved receiving corps. Yes, the additions of Alshon Jeffery and Torrey Smith could help Matthews by taking the defense's attention away from him. But the addition of Jeffery and Smith also likely means Matthews will see less targets. And that means his volume stats will likely decrease.

3 - Garbage Time

An anecdotal observation of mine has been that Matthews seems to really excel in garbage time. So I went back and looked at every game of his career to see if that was true. Before I reveal what I found, it's only fair to point out that there's a good deal of subjectivity in defining garbage time (click here to see my method). There's no also information easily available to see how Matthews compares to other receivers in terms of garbage time numbers. With all that said, here's what I found.

Jordan Matthews' actual stats: 225 recs, 2673 yards, 19 TD
Jordan Matthews' garbage time stats: 42 recs, 549 yards, 9 TD
In other words, nearly 20% of Matthews receptions, nearly 20% of his yards, and nearly 50% (!) of his touchdowns have been scored in garbage time. The touchdown number is especially alarming.

Philly knows he's on the last year of his deal. They also might realize the disparity in his asking price versus his actual value. Matthews is not a flat out bad player by any means, but he is very flawed. He can't play on the outside regularly. He's had drop issues dating back to college. Some of them are just soooooo bad, too.
(clips of poor drops which you can see in the article)

So he's Not versatile. Doesn't have great hands. Can't consistently drag his feet. What is Matthews particularly good at, exactly? I recently posed this question on Twitter. There wasn't any kind of consensus answer.

Look, it's not personal. It's just that this is not the kind of guy worth prioritizing when there's only so much money to go around.
There's a very good chance the 2017 season is Matthews' last in Philadelphia ... if he's not traded before then.

Completely subjective. You don't even give a precedence of what constitutes "garbage time".

They averaged 3 extra plays a game. Give me a break. There is no evidence to support your claims of inflation.

Click on the article coolio lol....there's a link explaining what consist of garbage time. It breaks down every catch when it was meaningless football.

Nothing subjective about it unless your a Matthews homer. Man hope you got your receipt for your Matthews jersey
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 60,541
Originally posted by TheXFactor:
Coaches talk about their own players all the damn time. See Trent Brown 2017. See Carlos Hyde, heck even Tank got talked up alot too. Eli Harold got talked up too if you remember.
i know,, part of the game. jh loved dahl and of course crabs has the best hands in the nfl
Originally posted by cciowa:
i understand you and nc have agendas so i will have to read between the lines with your posts more moving forward

Lol love the sarcasm
  • cciowa
  • Veteran
  • Posts: 60,541
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by cciowa:
i understand you and nc have agendas so i will have to read between the lines with your posts more moving forward

Lol love the sarcasm
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Click on the article coolio lol....there's a link explaining what consist of garbage time. It breaks down every catch when it was meaningless football.

Nothing subjective about it unless your a Matthews homer. Man hope you got your receipt for your Matthews jersey


He literally says "Before I reveal what I found, it's only fair to point out that there's a good deal of subjectivity in defining garbage time".

He has them down in games in the 4th qrt and is calling that garbage time. Lol

Against the Cowboys for instance. They are down 10 in the 4th qrt but that's considered garbage time? Get the flock out of here.
[ Edited by Scarlettlove on Aug 23, 2019 at 11:48 AM ]
Again, everyone is having a helluva camp...until they get cut.

If at this point, the receiving group is still undetermined if they are any better than a journeyman Jordan Mathews per Kyle Shanahan, then Kyle should just quit football cause he pretty much handpicked all of them.
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by TheXFactor:
Coaches talk about their own players all the damn time. See Trent Brown 2017. See Carlos Hyde, heck even Tank got talked up alot too. Eli Harold got talked up too if you remember.
i know,, part of the game. jh loved dahl and of course crabs has the best hands in the nfl

yep lol
Originally posted by cciowa:
Originally posted by NCommand:
see, just when some write him off. i see this..

If anything, if confirms that final spot is coming down to Matthews vs. James which means Bourne is done. And based on his tweet, it certainly sounds like he knows this.

And Kyle barely gave James any run as a WR last year. At least he's getting more of a shot this TC.
[ Edited by NCommand on Aug 23, 2019 at 11:56 AM ]
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by SoCold:
wasn't that the batted ball that he tried to stop while running full speed and almost caught? I hope you're not blaming the WR on that one. lol

would be pretty funny if they cut him after he spent all that money to get #81

not it was his 4th pass attempt on 3rd and 6. It was almost picked off. Matthews did NOT help with that play. I also think it was a poor decision by JG to throw there with Bausby squatting on the underneath route. BUT again Matthews was slow out his break.

oh the one when the line didn't block, yeah totally the WRs fault
lol
Originally posted by TheXFactor:
His 1 year deal is b/c of injury history. He's a known good CB period. Mathews hasn't been and was alot healthier these past 3-4 years.

Matthews hasn't had the significant injuries that is true. He has just been dinged up a lot. But both have plenty to prove which is why they were given 1 year (aka prove it) deals.
Originally posted by NCommand:
If anything, if confirms that final spot is coming down to Matthews vs. James which means Bourne is done. And based on his tweet, it certainly sounds like he knows this.

And Kyle barely gave James any run as a WR last year. At least he's getting more of a shot this TC.

It's been obvious to those who are paying attention. People keep bringing up ST but we already have some of the best gunners in the league. We also have an apleathra of capable return men. I'm guessing DJ Reed will be the KR and Pettis will be the punt returner.
Originally posted by SoCold:
oh the one when the line didn't block, yeah totally the WRs fault
lol

huh? so if Jimmy doesn't have a clean pocket and 4 secs to throw the ball we're blaming the OL all yr? There's pressure all the damn time in the NFL, yet somehow other teams can make plays, but we can't??

That pass could have been completed if Matthews wasn't slow out of his break. Ted Nuguyen broken down all the pass attempts and said Matthews was slow out of his break as well.
Originally posted by NYniner85:
huh? so if Jimmy doesn't have a clean pocket and 4 secs to throw the ball we're blaming the OL all yr? There's pressure all the damn time in the NFL, yet somehow other teams can make plays, but we can't??

That pass could have been completed if Matthews wasn't slow out of his break. Ted Nuguyen broken down all the pass attempts and said Matthews was slow out of his break as well.

It's pre-season relax. Nobody is in midseason form yet. Getting all bent out of shape over one play. You don't know what the assignments were. Jimmy could have been freelancing because of the rush and Jordan was the 4th option. They tell those guys to slow down on the drag route who are deeper in the progressions. Otherwise they would run themselves out of the play. We just don't know!!!
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