Deebo Samuel-WR-South Carolina

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 9moon:
if you read my post, I clearly stated that we DONT NEED Deebo to beat Seattle...

Seahawks sucks this year.. and IF we need Deebo JUST to beat Seattle, then what does that tell you??

we as good as they are ?? no way... no way !! we are a better team, we are the better team... so let's not use the excuse the DEEBO AINT HERE SO WE LOST TO SEATTLE kinda excuses..

This game should be THE statement game if we are to salvage the season.. who knows, we can get hot once we make the playoffs (1988 49ers) and we can may be bring back the trophy...

Are you aware that one of their 3 wins this year was at our house? And that was with Deebo and Warner playing.

Were we the better team at 4-5 than the Rams at 7-3? It's a division game on the road. Weird chit happens.

How many examples of that do you need this year?

Jags a better team than Buffalo?
Dolphins better team than Baltimore?
Jets a better team than Titans?
Vikings better team than GB?

etc…

This year has been a perfect example of why you shouldn't sleep on any team. No matter how bad they've looked.

the teams you listed, those were obvious upset... they won because they played out of their minds... when we lost to both Arizona and Seattle, we weren't even in the game mentally .... did you not see both games and how bad KS was ??

those teams above, it falls to that ANY GIVEN SUNDAY... but how many SUNDAYS must we give away in order to see how bad KS is..

Ok who's making excuses now, "obvious upset" "played out their minds" good god.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 9moon:
if you read my post, I clearly stated that we DONT NEED Deebo to beat Seattle...

Seahawks sucks this year.. and IF we need Deebo JUST to beat Seattle, then what does that tell you??

we as good as they are ?? no way... no way !! we are a better team, we are the better team... so let's not use the excuse the DEEBO AINT HERE SO WE LOST TO SEATTLE kinda excuses..

This game should be THE statement game if we are to salvage the season.. who knows, we can get hot once we make the playoffs (1988 49ers) and we can may be bring back the trophy...

Are you aware that one of their 3 wins this year was at our house? And that was with Deebo and Warner playing.

Were we the better team at 4-5 than the Rams at 7-3? It's a division game on the road. Weird chit happens.

How many examples of that do you need this year?

Jags a better team than Buffalo?
Dolphins better team than Baltimore?
Jets a better team than Titans?
Vikings better team than GB?

etc…

This year has been a perfect example of why you shouldn't sleep on any team. No matter how bad they've looked.

Yep, look at how many teams have 4 or more losses, this has been the most weird season parity wise, last year was just weird with no fans, but this year, 17 games, so much parity.

One possible reason for the weird parity is the fact that 2020 and 2021 - the scouting and training camp was all screwed up by Covid. I mean ShanaLynch had to spend 3 first round draft picks just to have the ability to talk to Trey and see him up close and personal (I think) and make an informed decision before drafting him. When many teams can't get the right players they want, I think that can result in some sort of randomness of talent that kind of makes all teams go to parity level.

Agreed, since COVID hit the NFL & all sports leagues have changed, look at like MLB & NBA teams, they couldn't go overseas to scout prospects, probably same for NHL teams, heck all the drafts in 2020 were virtual, 2021 wise NFL did it right with only vaccinated people, others were smaller crowds, NHL was the on;y virtual since it's usually in Canada but they had strict travel guidelines.

And let me say this, we should win without Deebo, but again any given Sunday, if they lose I won't sit there & say oh without Deebo we lost, no we lost cause we got outplayed, do I think we win? Yes, is it a blowou? No, because it's in Seattle, & those fans are nuts & psycho, throwing skittles at Bowman after he tore his ACL.

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
Also $18M a yr or $18.5M a yr would put him right in the area of Golladay & Tyreek Hill both at $18M a yr, only below the likes of Hopkins, Julio(who doesn't deserve the $22M a yr IMO), Cooper, & Michael Thomas. If he earns All Pro & Pro Bowl honors, he'll command a good amount, and the 49ers would be wise to pay him the money. But this whole RB vs WR money debate, it's not really the issue, McCaffrey is highest at $16M a yr, and I've said Deebo is better than McCaffrey at both rushing & receiving, so $18M-$18.5M a yr is worth it for both sides even if he was moved to RB, which isn't happening, he only started with the running once Mitchell went down after the Rams game, but if it wasn't for him, we don't get those 3 wins IMO, he was a huge part of it, both receiving & rushing, hopefully when back, with Mitchell, he'll get back to getting those receiving yards, and TDs, still should make Pro Bowl IMO, but always a popularity contest.

https://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver/

https://overthecap.com/position/running-back/

It's ridiculous to pay an RB or even combo WR/RB that kind of money in this system, especially with Deebo's injury history.

Originally posted by All22:

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
Also $18M a yr or $18.5M a yr would put him right in the area of Golladay & Tyreek Hill both at $18M a yr, only below the likes of Hopkins, Julio(who doesn't deserve the $22M a yr IMO), Cooper, & Michael Thomas. If he earns All Pro & Pro Bowl honors, he'll command a good amount, and the 49ers would be wise to pay him the money. But this whole RB vs WR money debate, it's not really the issue, McCaffrey is highest at $16M a yr, and I've said Deebo is better than McCaffrey at both rushing & receiving, so $18M-$18.5M a yr is worth it for both sides even if he was moved to RB, which isn't happening, he only started with the running once Mitchell went down after the Rams game, but if it wasn't for him, we don't get those 3 wins IMO, he was a huge part of it, both receiving & rushing, hopefully when back, with Mitchell, he'll get back to getting those receiving yards, and TDs, still should make Pro Bowl IMO, but always a popularity contest.

https://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver/

https://overthecap.com/position/running-back/

It's ridiculous to pay an RB or even combo WR/RB that kind of money in this system, especially with Deebo's injury history.

Injury history? He's missed 10 games, 9 in 2020 due to his foot injury, other than that, he's played every game, just because you get hurt once doesn't make you injury prone or oft-injured, if so, then anyone who's ever got hurt is then injury prone. Deebo is well worth the money, you'd be dumb to let him walk, and begin all over at WR, sober or later we need to pay up for a WR or 2, so why not our guys, Deebo & Aiyuk?

Originally posted by AB81Rules:
Injury history? He's missed 10 games, 9 in 2020 due to his foot injury, other than that, he's played every game, just because you get hurt once doesn't make you injury prone or oft-injured, if so, then anyone who's ever got hurt is then injury prone. Deebo is well worth the money, you'd be dumb to let him walk, and begin all over at WR, sober or later we need to pay up for a WR or 2, so why not our guys, Deebo & Aiyuk?

They probably want us to go sign Allen Robinson or Michael Gallup.

Pay the man

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by 9moon:
if you read my post, I clearly stated that we DONT NEED Deebo to beat Seattle...

Seahawks sucks this year.. and IF we need Deebo JUST to beat Seattle, then what does that tell you??

we as good as they are ?? no way... no way !! we are a better team, we are the better team... so let's not use the excuse the DEEBO AINT HERE SO WE LOST TO SEATTLE kinda excuses..

This game should be THE statement game if we are to salvage the season.. who knows, we can get hot once we make the playoffs (1988 49ers) and we can may be bring back the trophy...

Are you aware that one of their 3 wins this year was at our house? And that was with Deebo and Warner playing.

Were we the better team at 4-5 than the Rams at 7-3? It's a division game on the road. Weird chit happens.

How many examples of that do you need this year?

Jags a better team than Buffalo?
Dolphins better team than Baltimore?
Jets a better team than Titans?
Vikings better team than GB?

etc…

This year has been a perfect example of why you shouldn't sleep on any team. No matter how bad they've looked.

the teams you listed, those were obvious upset... they won because they played out of their minds... when we lost to both Arizona and Seattle, we weren't even in the game mentally .... did you not see both games and how bad KS was ??

those teams above, it falls to that ANY GIVEN SUNDAY... but how many SUNDAYS must we give away in order to see how bad KS is..

Dude what are you talking about!?

We weren't in the game mentally against Seattle? Kyle miss the throws in that game? Kyle fumble on special teams?

Those teams didn't play out of their minds. Jags scoring 9 points is playing out of their minds now? It's called lack of execution by the so called "better" team.

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
He's already missed 10 full games to date, half the snaps in some games where he's dinged up, and is about to miss a few more.

He's the kind of guy you're stuck paying $17M a year and ends up giving you 50% of the snaps.

I love me some Deebo but we've seen this formula with so many others at the higher end of the team cap.

Most of this is Deebo helping us win by playing RB, where everyone at the position takes a pounding. The game he subbed for Elijah was 10 carries for 90 yds, and 2 TDs. He basically saved our butts by playing RB. My hope would be to get him back to WR and keep him there and put him at RB when calamity hits the RB slot. Deebo did it and got dinged. We KNOW what he can do at RB now, so thanks Deebo for the sacrifice. But to advance toward big game end of season, we gotta protect him. Whenever we get up big ,like 3 scores late, sit him. Cut down on the physical beating. And don't use him at RB unless there is no alternative, and hasty and Wilson haven't been up to it to date.

The fact he is out of SEA game is a tough nut. Hopefully Aiyuk kittle, and au jus, the RBs, and whoever we use as other WRs are up to it. Juan, and esp Surefield would sure be nice to see have a breakout game.. Man we need that. Kyle hasn't used Surefield much, and it almost seems like he doesn't trust him. Kyle has to get over that and see what Surefield can do in big games. If not so hot, ok. But at least give him the chance.

Dude NC, Deebo's only had 1 game under 70% snaps, https://www.footballguys.com/stats/snap-counts/teams?team=SF&year=2021, also, those 10 games he missed were due to an injury in the offseason, just because a player gets hurt once doesn't make him injury prone or oft-injured, if so, then everyone who ever got hurt is injury prone then, I'll gladly pay Deebo $18M a yr on a 5yr extension, same when Aiyuk is due, you don't just let these kind of guys walk, I get they traded Buck, but they had their reasons, AA was way cheaper than Buck, & Kinlaw has promise. As for Deebo, I doubt he's worried about the long term effects, he's in his 3rd season, 2nd full season, I just don't get it, 3 wins a row, thanks in large part to Deebo's rush TDs, which are basically sweeps and reverses, not true runs like Mitchell is doing, yet you guys can't be happy? Always have to complain about something. If Deebo has an issue he'll tell Kyle, obviously he doesn't, cause he's still on the side trying to get ready to come back.

Deebo has had everything from foot to hamstring to calf to groin injuries. He's only been here 2.5 years. LOL

He had 879 of 1,253 offensive snaps in 2019. In 2020, only 305 of the 1,094. Now, he has 508 and is about to miss some time like he does annually and you can expect 1K+ offensive snaps per usual (more if we make the playoffs). As a true ZWR, there's never much reason to take him off the field much at all as he's needed for both run blocking and receiving. No, I don't expect 100% of the snaps.

Total: 1,692/3,347 = 50%

But this team tries to manage his snap counts but the way he's built and the way he plays is always going to lend itself to soft tissue issues, at the minimum. And he won't get younger.

And you want to drop $18.5M on that? Go for it.

But you better have a ton of snap count incentives and injury clauses built in and you better have a rookie receiver right behind him with a similar skill set who's ready to go.

He's a special player and he's certainly a guy you need to pay but to don't be surprised if he's another guy we invest in heavily in cap who never comes close to giving us our return.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Deebo has had everything from hamstring to calf to groin injuries.

He had 879 of 1,253 offensive snaps in 2019. In 2020, only 305 of the 1,094. Now, he has 508 and is about to miss some time like he does annually and you can expect 1K+ offensive snaps per usual (more if we make the playoffs). As a true ZWR, there's never much reason to take him off the field much at all as he's needed for both run blocking and receiving. No, I don't expect 100% of the snaps.

Total: 1,692/3,347 = 50%

But this team tries to manage his snap counts but the way he's built and the way he plays is always going to lend itself to soft tissue issues, at the minimum. And he won't get younger.

And you want to drop $18.5M on that? Go for it.

But you better have a ton of snap count incentives and injury clauses built in and you better have a rookie receiver right behind him with a similar skill set who's ready to go.

He's a special player and he's certainly a guy you need to pay but to don't be surprised if he's another guy we invest in heavily in cap who never comes close to giving us our return.

I know you are the keeper of the injury thread so you take this stuff very personally lol…but talent is talent. You gotta pay for it.

We've gotten burned with contracts to injured players before but it feels like it's mostly been from outside players coming in vs paying our own.

Armstead and Ward were both guys who kept getting hurt early in their careers and we kept giving them a chance. Armstead is slowing down a bit but Ward is having a great season for us. Deebo has clearly taken to working on his body…the groin injury didn't help but I think he's doing the things he needs to do to stay healthier. Sometimes there are things you can't control tho.

Pay the guy but put in some injury protection.

Originally posted by All22:
It's ridiculous to pay an RB or even combo WR/RB that kind of money in this system, especially with Deebo's injury history.

Standards here are so incredibly low on the "availability" part of the player equation and the ripple effect it has on the team when a player is in/out and can't be counted on consistently, I think we're all just numb to what is normal.

This IS normal to us SF fans. And then we wonder why we don't have cap space. It's because we constantly invest in injured players from critical starters to the depth and we rarely get a positive ROI. We just brought in two more guys to add to the PS who instantly are put on I.R. hoping to get some value for them down the road. It's the moneyball mindset.

Originally posted by genus49:
I know you are the keeper of the injury thread so you take this stuff very personally lol…but talent is talent. You gotta pay for it.

We've gotten burned with contracts to injured players before but it feels like it's mostly been from outside players coming in vs paying our own.

Armstead and Ward were both guys who kept getting hurt early in their careers and we kept giving them a chance. Armstead is slowing down a bit but Ward is having a great season for us. Deebo has clearly taken to working on his body…the groin injury didn't help but I think he's doing the things he needs to do to stay healthier. Sometimes there are things you can't control tho.

Pay the guy but put in some injury protection.

That's certainly my point. There's nothing wrong with paying the man. He's going to get paid. The problem is relying on him, the contract itself, having no contingency plan and that includes the coaches who so often, build their schemes around these types of guys (i.e. Verrett, Mostert).

Like if Alex Mack goes down. What's the plan?

We've seen this play out time and time and time again. Once again, we're going into an important game and he won't be there, and we have to work around it; he's 25.

Just a word of caution. That's all. If you don't learn from your past (200 examples of this), you're doomed to repeat it. And we have.

30 players have hit I.R. this year (45 last year) and countless other lost games of players who probably should have been added originally. In...out...in...out.

Just a word of caution. That's all. This FO targets and is beyond patient with these kinds of players. We essentially need two rosters to make it through 17 games. LOL

PLAN for him to get hurt accordingly and miss meaningful games or don't pay him the top dollar.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by genus49:
I know you are the keeper of the injury thread so you take this stuff very personally lol…but talent is talent. You gotta pay for it.

We've gotten burned with contracts to injured players before but it feels like it's mostly been from outside players coming in vs paying our own.

Armstead and Ward were both guys who kept getting hurt early in their careers and we kept giving them a chance. Armstead is slowing down a bit but Ward is having a great season for us. Deebo has clearly taken to working on his body…the groin injury didn't help but I think he's doing the things he needs to do to stay healthier. Sometimes there are things you can't control tho.

Pay the guy but put in some injury protection.

That's certainly my point. There's nothing wrong with paying the man. He's going to get paid. The problem is relying on him, the contract itself, having no contingency plan and that includes the coaches who so often, build their schemes around these types of guys (i.e. Verrett, Mostert).

Like if Alex Mack goes down. What's the plan?

We've seen this play out time and time and time again. Once again, we're going into an important game and he won't be there, and we have to work around it; he's 25.

Just a word of caution. That's all. If you don't learn from your past (200 examples of this), you're doomed to repeat it. And we have.

30 players have hit I.R. this year (45 last year) and countless other lost games of players who probably should have been added originally. In...out...in...out.

Just a word of caution. That's all. This FO targets and is beyond patient with these kinds of players. We essentially need two rosters to make it through 17 games. LOL

PLAN for him to get hurt accordingly and miss meaningful games or don't pay him the top dollar.

lol.. ain't it funny that Grappy gets the bullets because he gets injured.. but sKITTLES and Deebo get the Pass no matter how many games they miss year in and year out?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by genus49:
I know you are the keeper of the injury thread so you take this stuff very personally lol…but talent is talent. You gotta pay for it.

We've gotten burned with contracts to injured players before but it feels like it's mostly been from outside players coming in vs paying our own.

Armstead and Ward were both guys who kept getting hurt early in their careers and we kept giving them a chance. Armstead is slowing down a bit but Ward is having a great season for us. Deebo has clearly taken to working on his body…the groin injury didn't help but I think he's doing the things he needs to do to stay healthier. Sometimes there are things you can't control tho.

Pay the guy but put in some injury protection.

That's certainly my point. There's nothing wrong with paying the man. He's going to get paid. The problem is relying on him, the contract itself, having no contingency plan and that includes the coaches who so often, build their schemes around these types of guys (i.e. Verrett, Mostert).

Like if Alex Mack goes down. What's the plan?

We've seen this play out time and time and time again. Once again, we're going into an important game and he won't be there, and we have to work around it; he's 25.

Just a word of caution. That's all. If you don't learn from your past (200 examples of this), you're doomed to repeat it. And we have.

30 players have hit I.R. this year (45 last year) and countless other lost games of players who probably should have been added originally. In...out...in...out.

Just a word of caution. That's all. This FO targets and is beyond patient with these kinds of players. We essentially need two rosters to make it through 17 games. LOL

PLAN for him to get hurt accordingly and miss meaningful games or don't pay him the top dollar.

Of those 30 players are you counting PS players cause that's kinda stupid, those guys aren't even expected to play.

Also there isn't no 200 examples of players signing big deals and getting hurt with the 49ers.

You have to take a chance, like I said, if Deebo is injury prone or oft-injured due to last yr, yet he only missed 1 game in 2019, then anyone who gets hurt once is injury prone or oft-injured, so OBJ, Von, Gilmore, Julio, guys everyone wanted, even though they've been hurt more than Deebo.

Originally posted by 9moon:
lol.. ain't it funny that Grappy gets the bullets because he gets injured.. but sKITTLES and Deebo get the Pass no matter how many games they miss year in and year out?

Have you even looked up how many games Deebo has played? 15 in 2019, he missed 9 in 2020 due to that injury in the offseason at camp Jimmy, now will be 1 in 2021, no one is giving anyone a pass, but injuries are a part of the game, you can't go the entire season or career without getting hurt once.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Deebo has had everything from foot to hamstring to calf to groin injuries. He's only been here 2.5 years. LOL

He had 879 of 1,253 offensive snaps in 2019. In 2020, only 305 of the 1,094. Now, he has 508 and is about to miss some time like he does annually and you can expect 1K+ offensive snaps per usual (more if we make the playoffs). As a true ZWR, there's never much reason to take him off the field much at all as he's needed for both run blocking and receiving. No, I don't expect 100% of the snaps.

Total: 1,692/3,347 = 50%

But this team tries to manage his snap counts but the way he's built and the way he plays is always going to lend itself to soft tissue issues, at the minimum. And he won't get younger.

And you want to drop $18.5M on that? Go for it.

But you better have a ton of snap count incentives and injury clauses built in and you better have a rookie receiver right behind him with a similar skill set who's ready to go.

He's a special player and he's certainly a guy you need to pay but to don't be surprised if he's another guy we invest in heavily in cap who never comes close to giving us our return.

Miss time annually? WTF is that? He was a rookie in 2019, he didn't play a lot not due to injuries, but due to us trading for Sanders, plus Bourne was playing consistently.

Again, you would rather us let a highly talented player leave cause he's played 50%, when he's basically played 70% of all offensive snaps in the games he's played, which is 33 out of 43, I mean c'mon, why is it when someone gets hurt once you go and call them injury prone, yet, the same crowd who does this, clamors for injury prone players via trade, you wanted Julio, now he's hurt this season, Gilmore, OBJ, Von, etc.... Every year, same crowd.

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by genus49:
I know you are the keeper of the injury thread so you take this stuff very personally lol…but talent is talent. You gotta pay for it.

We've gotten burned with contracts to injured players before but it feels like it's mostly been from outside players coming in vs paying our own.

Armstead and Ward were both guys who kept getting hurt early in their careers and we kept giving them a chance. Armstead is slowing down a bit but Ward is having a great season for us. Deebo has clearly taken to working on his body…the groin injury didn't help but I think he's doing the things he needs to do to stay healthier. Sometimes there are things you can't control tho.

Pay the guy but put in some injury protection.

That's certainly my point. There's nothing wrong with paying the man. He's going to get paid. The problem is relying on him, the contract itself, having no contingency plan and that includes the coaches who so often, build their schemes around these types of guys (i.e. Verrett, Mostert).

Like if Alex Mack goes down. What's the plan?

We've seen this play out time and time and time again. Once again, we're going into an important game and he won't be there, and we have to work around it; he's 25.

Just a word of caution. That's all. If you don't learn from your past (200 examples of this), you're doomed to repeat it. And we have.

30 players have hit I.R. this year (45 last year) and countless other lost games of players who probably should have been added originally. In...out...in...out.

Just a word of caution. That's all. This FO targets and is beyond patient with these kinds of players. We essentially need two rosters to make it through 17 games. LOL

PLAN for him to get hurt accordingly and miss meaningful games or don't pay him the top dollar.

lol.. ain't it funny that Grappy gets the bullets because he gets injured.. but sKITTLES and Deebo get the Pass no matter how many games they miss year in and year out?

Your posts are just terrible. Like you have to be trolling right??

Imagine comparing Kittle and Deebo to Garoppolo…

Originally posted by AB81Rules:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by genus49:
I know you are the keeper of the injury thread so you take this stuff very personally lol…but talent is talent. You gotta pay for it.

We've gotten burned with contracts to injured players before but it feels like it's mostly been from outside players coming in vs paying our own.

Armstead and Ward were both guys who kept getting hurt early in their careers and we kept giving them a chance. Armstead is slowing down a bit but Ward is having a great season for us. Deebo has clearly taken to working on his body…the groin injury didn't help but I think he's doing the things he needs to do to stay healthier. Sometimes there are things you can't control tho.

Pay the guy but put in some injury protection.

That's certainly my point. There's nothing wrong with paying the man. He's going to get paid. The problem is relying on him, the contract itself, having no contingency plan and that includes the coaches who so often, build their schemes around these types of guys (i.e. Verrett, Mostert).

Like if Alex Mack goes down. What's the plan?

We've seen this play out time and time and time again. Once again, we're going into an important game and he won't be there, and we have to work around it; he's 25.

Just a word of caution. That's all. If you don't learn from your past (200 examples of this), you're doomed to repeat it. And we have.

30 players have hit I.R. this year (45 last year) and countless other lost games of players who probably should have been added originally. In...out...in...out.

Just a word of caution. That's all. This FO targets and is beyond patient with these kinds of players. We essentially need two rosters to make it through 17 games. LOL

PLAN for him to get hurt accordingly and miss meaningful games or don't pay him the top dollar.

Of those 30 players are you counting PS players cause that's kinda stupid, those guys aren't even expected to play.

Also there isn't no 200 examples of players signing big deals and getting hurt with the 49ers.

You have to take a chance, like I said, if Deebo is injury prone or oft-injured due to last yr, yet he only missed 1 game in 2019, then anyone who gets hurt once is injury prone or oft-injured, so OBJ, Von, Gilmore, Julio, guys everyone wanted, even though they've been hurt more than Deebo.

Originally posted by 9moon:
lol.. ain't it funny that Grappy gets the bullets because he gets injured.. but sKITTLES and Deebo get the Pass no matter how many games they miss year in and year out?

Have you even looked up how many games Deebo has played? 15 in 2019, he missed 9 in 2020 due to that injury in the offseason at camp Jimmy, now will be 1 in 2021, no one is giving anyone a pass, but injuries are a part of the game, you can't go the entire season or career without getting hurt once.

I get it I get it.. you think he's the best WR in the league..