2018 Team Information (Needs)

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Yep. We need to make Center and Guard a priority this offseason, and then tackle a priority the following year. I think after next year, Mcglinchey can move to LT and we can draft or sign a new RT.

I can definitely get with that! I've got my RG picked out in FA. You got a C? Draft or FA?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:

Yep. We need to make Center and Guard a priority this offseason, and then tackle a priority the following year. I think after next year, Mcglinchey can move to LT and we can draft or sign a new RT.

I can definitely get with that! I've got my RG picked out in FA. You got a C? Draft or FA?

Based on what happened this year in FA, I assume we will be gunshy signing another center. I cant believe how bad Richburg has been. Truly awful. I assume we will draft a Center, and I am the wrong guy to ask about draft prospects. I watch very little college football.

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Edge pass rusher
Defensive backs
Center
Guard
Linebacker
Wide Receiver
Punter

That would be my list.

I agree with the list but I would probably put LB a bit higher as far as priority. A couple of these needs can be had via FA but if the team wants good players in the draft, they may have to trade down from 4 (to 6-8)so they can acquire more picks (only 5 as of now). If they can sign a vet FA CB and/or FS and an OG, then that makes their situation easier. I think the team should draft at least 2 ERs and maybe even 3. That is such a huge need and they may not be able to get one in free agency.

Cheers!

Originally posted by Allx9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TheXFactor:

Originally posted by Allx9er:
Anybody else thinking that Sherm could make the move to FS next year? Not complaining about his play not even saying his play has dropped off. Just thinking that he could solidify the middle of the field at that 3rd level more than any other option not named thomas.

very low chance, he is still playing well at CB. We will add more to FS I'm sure.

Agreed.

Kick rocks. The both of ya

Yeah because having guys switch positions has worked out so well for us. Have you watched 1 game this season?

Originally posted by longterm9erfan:

I agree with the list but I would probably put LB a bit higher as far as priority. A couple of these needs can be had via FA but if the team wants good players in the draft, they may have to trade down from 4 (to 6-8)so they can acquire more picks (only 5 as of now). If they can sign a vet FA CB and/or FS and an OG, then that makes their situation easier. I think the team should draft at least 2 ERs and maybe even 3. That is such a huge need and they may not be able to get one in free agency.

Cheers!

That seems pretty reasonable although Elijah Lee has played well at WILL all year for Foster (hurt/gone) and M.Smith (old/injured). We have our base SAM in Mark Nzeocha and Fred Warner at MIKE. That's a pretty solid group and LB's are much cheaper in FA (<$10M) compared to more premium positions. That's the best way to go IMHO.

G, C and LT (development)...we have a FQB coming back from an ACL and this 'good' OL has given up over 100 QB hits already and are 3rd in false start penalties. Outside the two T's, the interior has been a swinging gate to our QB's (all 3). This unit may have to be a priority esp. given the best of the interior, Mike Person, is 31 and is a FA now.

If you play QB in the NFL long enough, you're going to get hit. If you look around the league OL play in general is down across the board. Look at the QB hits and sacks allowed stat posted weekly in here. It's not exclusive to SF.

THIS IS NOT A REFERENDUM ON ME SAYING "THE LINE IS FINE, WE DON'T NEED BETTER GUARDS AND A JOE STALEY REPLACEMENT."

All else considered equal, I'd rather have great tackles, a smart QB that gets the ball out quickly, and fast WRs that get open quick. Even though the cap keeps going up it's just not economically feasible to field a Pro Bowl team.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SteveWallacesHelmet:
Edge pass rusher
Defensive backs
Center
Guard
Linebacker
Wide Receiver
Punter

That would be my list.

Center...man, I've been thinking about that one a lot today. Just WAY too many hits on all 3 QB's this year and no excuse as we're a top 10 rushing team, play action and 2 of the 3 QB's have a quick release.

Yup. Mostly agree with this list. Center has definitely been a disappointment. But not sure what you can do in 2019. Can get out in 2020 I believe.

Originally posted by TheXFactor:

Originally posted by Allx9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by TheXFactor:

Originally posted by Allx9er:
Anybody else thinking that Sherm could make the move to FS next year? Not complaining about his play not even saying his play has dropped off. Just thinking that he could solidify the middle of the field at that 3rd level more than any other option not named thomas.

very low chance, he is still playing well at CB. We will add more to FS I'm sure.

Agreed.

Kick rocks. The both of ya

Yeah because having guys switch positions has worked out so well for us. Have you watched 1 game this season?

Instead of trying to be a smart ass, keep in mind sherman has considered the idea himself.

Originally posted by NinerGM:
I would agree with this if it was an either/or proposition.

However, I don't think it's one at all. And agreed, you are going to get hit in the NFL if you play QB. The problem is as we've seen, there are degrees to which QBs get hit. Regardless of the stat, if you're in the extreme recipient of a detrimental outcome, it demands something is done. Yes OL play is "down" around the league, but scoring and yards are also way, way up. My problem isn't that QBs get hit it's that we've gone through multiple QBs for the second time in 2 seasons and we're either most hit or in the top 3. I think we would see a HUGE increase in performance and HEALTH if we move to 15th or even 20th in hits.

It's all a balanced equation right? Good protection, great QB, and WRs who can win 1:1 match-ups (not just fast). The challenge is where in the equation can addition create the greatest impact downstream to other areas. I'd say that's first with protection, then with QB. I can have an average QB play great with great protection and average WRs. Great protection also means that my OL is probably pretty good at run-blocking enough that allows more time for my QB and WRs. Keeping my QB from being hit so hard, preventing injury again has the greatest impact downstream.

This does not mean you should not invest in the other two parts of the equation. Again, this does not mean you should not invest SIGNIFICANTLY in the other two parts of the equation. Deficiencies are exposed when facing an equally or better-talented opponent

I've heard GM's and some ex-players discuss the issue of trying to find good lineman out of college. With so many up-tempo read option offenses in college the lineman don't learn to pass block the way they must in the NFL. They tend to be on the move more and do a lot more run blocking so there is a learning curve. McGlinchey is a good example. He is still learning his pass blocking technique but he is great on running plays.

Originally posted by FL9er:

If you play QB in the NFL long enough, you're going to get hit. If you look around the league OL play in general is down across the board. Look at the QB hits and sacks allowed stat posted weekly in here. It's not exclusive to SF.

THIS IS NOT A REFERENDUM ON ME SAYING "THE LINE IS FINE, WE DON'T NEED BETTER GUARDS AND A JOE STALEY REPLACEMENT."

All else considered equal, I'd rather have great tackles, a smart QB that gets the ball out quickly, and fast WRs that get open quick. Even though the cap keeps going up it's just not economically feasible to field a Pro Bowl team.

Normally I'd agree if we were at least in the middle of the pack and didn't have 2 quick release QB's as further evidence but this is an insane number of QB hits and being 3rd in false starts is also evidence we're struggling even at pre snap. We'll probably blow by Houston after facing the Bears and Rams fronts.

Maybe we need to dive into all the reasons why this is (not just the OL).

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by longterm9erfan:
I agree with the list but I would probably put LB a bit higher as far as priority. A couple of these needs can be had via FA but if the team wants good players in the draft, they may have to trade down from 4 (to 6-8)so they can acquire more picks (only 5 as of now). If they can sign a vet FA CB and/or FS and an OG, then that makes their situation easier. I think the team should draft at least 2 ERs and maybe even 3. That is such a huge need and they may not be able to get one in free agency.

Cheers!

That seems pretty reasonable although Elijah Lee has played well at WILL all year for Foster (hurt/gone) and M.Smith (old/injured). We have our base SAM in Mark Nzeocha and Fred Warner at MIKE. That's a pretty solid group and LB's are much cheaper in FA (<$10M) compared to more premium positions. That's the best way to go IMHO.

G, C and LT (development)...we have a FQB coming back from an ACL and this 'good' OL has given up over 100 QB hits already and are 3rd in false start penalties. Outside the two T's, the interior has been a swinging gate to our QB's (all 3). This unit may have to be a priority esp. given the best of the interior, Mike Person, is 31 and is a FA now.

Hey NC...good points....but....I'm not sold on Lee yet as a starter and certainly not on Nzeocha. I just think the team needs to upgrade its talent at LB in general, especially the starters. Losing Foster hurt...badly. That went from a position of strength to one the team needs to address. I like what you said about getting a good LB for less than $10 mil. That would be a good investment IMHO.
The OG position certainly needs an influx of talent, whether veteran, rookie or both. We are on the same page there. I also think the team really needs another veteran CB and/or FS. There are just too many young guys in the secondary and the result has been confusion at times, which is a recipe for disaster. The team needs a Dwight Hicks type leader (other than Uncle Sherm) back there to hold things together. If you recall, the Niners signed both Carlos Rogers at CB and Donte Whitner at S in the first Harbaugh year and they ended up being huge contributors. Just sayin'.

Cheers!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by FL9er:
If you play QB in the NFL long enough, you're going to get hit. If you look around the league OL play in general is down across the board. Look at the QB hits and sacks allowed stat posted weekly in here. It's not exclusive to SF.

THIS IS NOT A REFERENDUM ON ME SAYING "THE LINE IS FINE, WE DON'T NEED BETTER GUARDS AND A JOE STALEY REPLACEMENT."

All else considered equal, I'd rather have great tackles, a smart QB that gets the ball out quickly, and fast WRs that get open quick. Even though the cap keeps going up it's just not economically feasible to field a Pro Bowl team.

Normally I'd agree if we were at least in the middle of the pack and didn't have 2 quick release QB's as further evidence but this is an insane number of QB hits and being 3rd in false starts is also evidence we're struggling even at pre snap. We'll probably blow by Houston after facing the Bears and Rams fronts.

Maybe we need to dive into all the reasons why this is (not just the OL).

QB Hits Allowed through Week 15:

NO: 46
PIT: 57
CHI: 58
CIN: 61
BAL, CAR, NE: 62
IND: 65
TEN: 66
CLE, NYJ: 68
LAR: 69
DET: 72
LAC: 79
SEA: 81
MIN: 85
GB, OAK: 86
WAS: 87
BUF, DEN: 89
MIA: 90
NYG, PHI: 92
KC: 93
ARI: 94
DAL, JAX: 96
TB: 101
ATL: 105
SF: 109
HOU: 115

— Johnny Kinsley (@Brickwallblitz) December 18, 2018

Wow. I knew we were bad but that's really bad. Any idea how those numbers break down by games? Assuming Beathard tends to hold the ball longer vs games with Garropolo/Mullens quicker release and decision making, were the majority on Beathard or do we know if the 3 QB's were all hit the same % wise per dropbacks?
Either they need to make moves to improve protection or leave Beathard at QB to absorb the hits (poor guy) and become a run only team. Whhhhat's Jimmy Raye up to now days?

Originally posted by longterm9erfan:

Hey NC...good points....but....I'm not sold on Lee yet as a starter and certainly not on Nzeocha. I just think the team needs to upgrade its talent at LB in general, especially the starters. Losing Foster hurt...badly. That went from a position of strength to one the team needs to address. I like what you said about getting a good LB for less than $10 mil. That would be a good investment IMHO.

The OG position certainly needs an influx of talent, whether veteran, rookie or both. We are on the same page there. I also think the team really needs another veteran CB and/or FS. There are just too many young guys in the secondary and the result has been confusion at times, which is a recipe for disaster. The team needs a Dwight Hicks type leader (other than Uncle Sherm) back there to hold things together. If you recall, the Niners signed both Carlos Rogers at CB and Donte Whitner at S in the first Harbaugh year and they ended up being huge contributors. Just sayin'.

Cheers!

Totally... I've got two veteran LB's I'm targeting in FA as well (a SAM and WILL). Then you've got decent depth with Mark Nzeocha and Elijah Lee plus special teams.

Yeah, great call on adding a veteran to the secondary, maybe two. That's important no doubt.

Anyhow, splitting hairs here no matter what order; we need it all.

Originally posted by Sourball:

Wow. I knew we were bad but that's really bad. Any idea how those numbers break down by games? Assuming Beathard tends to hold the ball longer vs games with Garropolo/Mullens quicker release and decision making, were the majority on Beathard or do we know if the 3 QB's were all hit the same % wise per dropbacks?

Either they need to make moves to improve protection or leave Beathard at QB to absorb the hits (poor guy) and become a run only team. Whhhhat's Jimmy Raye up to now days?

Haha...yeah, not exactly a fun topic to talk about. I suspect there's a wide array of reasons including communication issues, talent, scheme, slow processing, receivers not getting open immediately, blitzes, pocket awareness, etc.

But the same 5 have started virtually every game together and they have consistently given up around 7-8 QB hits a game no matter the QB.

So

Originally posted by NCommand:


Totally... I've got two veteran LB's I'm targeting in FA as well (a SAM and WILL). Then you've got decent depth with Mark Nzeocha and Elijah Lee plus special teams.

Yeah, great call on adding a veteran to the secondary, maybe two. That's important no doubt.

Anyhow, splitting hairs here no matter what order; we need it all.

You.....are correct, sir!......as usual.