How to build around a franchise QB

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
The salary cap is over $170 million, Aaron Rodgers is earning around $20 million. Sorry but that excuse is bunk. What has kept Green Bay from consistently making a serious push to the Super Bowl has been their attachment to a defensive coordinator who clearly wasn't keeping up with the modern NFL and got repeatedly outcoached along with generally failing to add enough talent on the defense through the draft.

If you are an NFL GM and your excuse as to why you can't get any further in the playoffs because your QB is earning too much money, you need to go find a new line of work. The draft gives every team, no matter how much or how little cap space, the ability to replenish the roster, to add new talent, to improve on weak areas....etc. If you look at most of these teams in-depth, their issues have been a failure of both personnel acquisition and coaching.

In the entire time that Rodgers has been the starter with the Packers, they've failed to find him a consistent bell cow back, he's not often had a reliable run game. Drafting DL early has also resulted in more bust than boom for them. Justin Harrell? 1st round pick in 2007, out of the NFL in 2010. BJ Raji, had a couple good seasons for the Packers, was mostly average after being the #9 pick in the draft in 2010, not the impact they were hoping for long term. Jerel Worthy? Drafted in the 2nd round, lasted on the Packers for one season. Datone Jones? 1st round pick that never really panned out, currently a free agent.

So yeah, if you largely miss on your DL draft picks consistently, struggle to find a consistent run game for your QB and hang on to a defensive coordinator who is clearly overmatched for far too many years, paying a QB a lot of money could very well cripple you.

Interesting case study, the Packers. I took a look at their day 1/2 draft picks and they seem to be doing what I'd like the 49ers to do, protect the QB then go defense defense defense. I looked at their 2010 draft and started tallying their day 1/2 picks (rounds 1-3), knowing it's a bit unfair to grade their 2017 draft.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/draft.htm
DLine 7
DBacks 7
OLine 3
WR 3
RB 2
TE 1
LB 1

That is a heavy lean towards defense, which imo shows an obvious preference in how they want to strengthen their team. Yet they have either drafted poorly, developed poorly, or like mentioned, Capers is a dud at DC. There are other factors to consider such as who they've signed as FAs and who they've allowed to leave versus who they decided to retain. But that's more work than I want to do.

At least GB has been in the hunt making it to the division rounds three times and the conference finals twice (since their SB win). They've lost some heartbreakers in the playoffs. Imagine if just half of those defensive picks lived up to their draft pedigree. They'd have a very good defense that can support Rodgers. I think what this shows is that once a team has a FQB, the team must draft even better than when they didn't have a FQB. Teams with legit a FQB pick lower, have less cap (going back to FQB take up lots of cap), and must prioritize which players to keep. Another team I want to look at is the Chargers, who have a good QB but fail to make any noise.

Originally posted by thl408:
Let's armchair GM. Assuming Jimmy is that guy, what is your preferred method for building around a franchise QB? The easy answer is, "do both", but if you had to choose one side to lean towards, do you prefer the team be built with offense in mind, or defense? This isn't about what to do this coming offseason. This is a long term, general team building question.

Well, the Patriots model was to focus on defense and offensive line in terms of draft capital, but they made it work by being very adept at identifying WR's and RB's who weren't great but fit the system and had a rapport with the QB. Where there was an experienced veteran WR available at discount, they often took a flier. San Francisco has had trouble in the past finding those types of guys, but we have a new regime now. Breida and Taylor are good examples of Patriotrs-style picks. Guys who don't wow but get results.

In reality, any draft strategy will work so long as you are able to unearth quality players. The Patriots could only do what they do because they had the ability to find the right tools from the spare parts bin at WR and RB AND have drafted consistently well.

I see you responded to a Packers post and the only difference there is that Green Bay spent all that early round draft capital on defense and the defense never improved. They've been trying to improve that defense since Kaepernick tore them apart for 200 yards rushing that one NFC Championship game years ago.

How to build around a franchise QB? You literally build around him. A line. A run game. Offensive weapons. That doesn't mean you neglect the defense. Who's to say you can't do both? Do both.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
The salary cap is over $170 million, Aaron Rodgers is earning around $20 million. Sorry but that excuse is bunk. What has kept Green Bay from consistently making a serious push to the Super Bowl has been their attachment to a defensive coordinator who clearly wasn't keeping up with the modern NFL and got repeatedly outcoached along with generally failing to add enough talent on the defense through the draft.

If you are an NFL GM and your excuse as to why you can't get any further in the playoffs because your QB is earning too much money, you need to go find a new line of work. The draft gives every team, no matter how much or how little cap space, the ability to replenish the roster, to add new talent, to improve on weak areas....etc. If you look at most of these teams in-depth, their issues have been a failure of both personnel acquisition and coaching.

In the entire time that Rodgers has been the starter with the Packers, they've failed to find him a consistent bell cow back, he's not often had a reliable run game. Drafting DL early has also resulted in more bust than boom for them. Justin Harrell? 1st round pick in 2007, out of the NFL in 2010. BJ Raji, had a couple good seasons for the Packers, was mostly average after being the #9 pick in the draft in 2010, not the impact they were hoping for long term. Jerel Worthy? Drafted in the 2nd round, lasted on the Packers for one season. Datone Jones? 1st round pick that never really panned out, currently a free agent.

So yeah, if you largely miss on your DL draft picks consistently, struggle to find a consistent run game for your QB and hang on to a defensive coordinator who is clearly overmatched for far too many years, paying a QB a lot of money could very well cripple you.

Interesting case study, the Packers. I took a look at their day 1/2 draft picks and they seem to be doing what I'd like the 49ers to do, protect the QB then go defense defense defense. I looked at their 2010 draft and started tallying their day 1/2 picks (rounds 1-3), knowing it's a bit unfair to grade their 2017 draft.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/gnb/draft.htm
DLine 7
DBacks 7
OLine 3
WR 3
RB 2
TE 1
LB 1

That is a heavy lean towards defense, which imo shows an obvious preference in how they want to strengthen their team. Yet they have either drafted poorly, developed poorly, or like mentioned, Capers is a dud at DC. There are other factors to consider such as who they've signed as FAs and who they've allowed to leave versus who they decided to retain. But that's more work than I want to do.

At least GB has been in the hunt making it to the division rounds three times and the conference finals twice (since their SB win). They've lost some heartbreakers in the playoffs. Imagine if just half of those defensive picks lived up to their draft pedigree. They'd have a very good defense that can support Rodgers. I think what this shows is that once a team has a FQB, the team must draft even better than when they didn't have a FQB. Teams with legit a FQB pick lower, have less cap (going back to FQB take up lots of cap), and must prioritize which players to keep. Another team I want to look at is the Chargers, who have a good QB but fail to make any noise.

McCarthy reminds me a bit of Mooch. Mooch could never really get or draft an elite defense. Looks like Clay Matthews had dropped off in production since 2010 when the Peckers won the super bowl. I haven't studied the Peckers, but I'm betting they really haven't found a DT to match up with Clay Matthews. For a pass rush to happen, you need that DT to clear the space for the LEO/Edge rusher to make him productive. For some reason, when I look at Green Bay's defense, it just seems they don't have the power to stop runs defensively. They may have the quickness to gap penetrate, as per Dom Capers zone blitz schemes. But the Zone blitz really becomes ineffective against strong running teams.

Offense of course.

Is very simple, you need to put points on the board in order to win ball games. And who does that 99.9% of the time? Offense.

Even with a bad defense, Jimmy G was still able to pull out 5 wins in a row.

But, please note a lot of them were tight games and needed a million FGs to get it done.

And that is why you need to upgrade the offensive personnel pretty much at all positions to take the 9ers to the next level.

Jaguars had a top defense and the 9ers was still able to put a 40 burger on them thanks to Jimmy G.

Consolidate the O-line, improve the run game and most importantly get a big bodied outside WR who can compete for jump balls in the red zone (we must convert for 6 instead of having to kick FGs all the time when we drive the ball all the way to the red zone), there will be no telling how far Jimmy G can take us. Only sky is the limit.

~ Top D.
~ Good O line second.

This guy can win with a garbage roster. He proved that. So give him a top D to hold down the other team and we win tons and tons of games. A good O line so the QB can survive over time. They other stuff like WR is not as important. He can win with garbage WR's. He proved that and there is no reason to expect that not to continue. Ideally you want good skill position players but you don't need them. Tom Brady hasn't had great skill position guys with a few exceptions his whole career. That doesn't stop him from getting to and winning Super Bowls.

A great D alone with Jimmy G would win enormous numbers of games for this team and go far in the playoffs. The other stuff you want but it's just bonus when you have a Franchise QB + elite defense. Everything else is just bonus after that.

Thank God that the joe montana legacy thread got shut down. It's time for jimmy

Originally posted by Rascal:
Offense of course.

Is very simple, you need to put points on the board in order to win ball games. And who does that 99.9% of the time? Offense.

Even with a bad defense, Jimmy G was still able to pull out 5 wins in a row.

But, please note a lot of them were tight games and needed a million FGs to get it done.

And that is why you need to upgrade the offensive personnel pretty much at all positions to take the 9ers to the next level.

Jaguars had a top defense and the 9ers was still able to put a 40 burger on them thanks to Jimmy G.

Consolidate the O-line, improve the run game and most importantly get a big bodied outside WR who can compete for jump balls in the red zone (we must convert for 6 instead of having to kick FGs all the time when we drive the ball all the way to the red zone), there will be no telling how far Jimmy G can take us. Only sky is the limit.

Umm, I guess you missed the Super Bowl where New England LOST with 613 yards of offense and their QB passing for 505 yards.

1. Invest heavily in offensive line. Ability to hold the ball to reduce the number of scoring opportunities for opposing offense. Also reduce the odds of QB being injured.
2. A low-scoring defense that creates high percentage of 3-and-outs. Nice to have big play turn over ability as well.
3. Dominating offensive skilled players in WR, RB, and TE.

Originally posted by FL9er:

Originally posted by Rascal:
Offense of course.

Is very simple, you need to put points on the board in order to win ball games. And who does that 99.9% of the time? Offense.

Even with a bad defense, Jimmy G was still able to pull out 5 wins in a row.

But, please note a lot of them were tight games and needed a million FGs to get it done.

And that is why you need to upgrade the offensive personnel pretty much at all positions to take the 9ers to the next level.

Jaguars had a top defense and the 9ers was still able to put a 40 burger on them thanks to Jimmy G.

Consolidate the O-line, improve the run game and most importantly get a big bodied outside WR who can compete for jump balls in the red zone (we must convert for 6 instead of having to kick FGs all the time when we drive the ball all the way to the red zone), there will be no telling how far Jimmy G can take us. Only sky is the limit.

Umm, I guess you missed the Super Bowl where New England LOST with 613 yards of offense and their QB passing for 505 yards.

Two great offense performances, and game came down to the last play. Both teams had great defenses going into the game, yet the offense dominated. The trend in modern football is to reduce physicality for sake of injuries and that usually favors the offense.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

~ Top D.
~ Good O line second.

This guy can win with a garbage roster. He proved that. So give him a top D to hold down the other team and we win tons and tons of games. A good O line so the QB can survive over time. They other stuff like WR is not as important. He can win with garbage WR's. He proved that and there is no reason to expect that not to continue. Ideally you want good skill position players but you don't need them. Tom Brady hasn't had great skill position guys with a few exceptions his whole career. That doesn't stop him from getting to and winning Super Bowls.

A great D alone with Jimmy G would win enormous numbers of games for this team and go far in the playoffs. The other stuff you want but it's just bonus when you have a Franchise QB + elite defense. Everything else is just bonus after that.

I agree SD,, but i would reverse the order: ie, Good OL, (or great OL) first, and then a top D. Agree that we don't need #1 WR with Jimmy as he has averaged over 300 yds passing with guys we have...and there are no all pros out there. Just everyday good workmen who carry their lunch pail, wear their hard hats and show up at game time. But OL? Once you no longer have a so so QB...once you get a true FR QB....then you need to protect his Azz and your 137 Mil Bucks. Do that and THEN build your D. Right now we are obviously lacking a main part...EDGE rusher. Get him and our DL will look 20x better. Our DBs will look better. Add in a great Corner and there you go. We, unfortunately, following NFL protocol with Reuben, will have NO starting LB. So we have that to do also. Not just one but two at least. How many teams have NO LB? Not many.

Build it so Jimmy can play into his 40's like Brady

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:
~ Top D.
~ Good O line second.

This guy can win with a garbage roster. He proved that. So give him a top D to hold down the other team and we win tons and tons of games. A good O line so the QB can survive over time. They other stuff like WR is not as important. He can win with garbage WR's. He proved that and there is no reason to expect that not to continue. Ideally you want good skill position players but you don't need them. Tom Brady hasn't had great skill position guys with a few exceptions his whole career. That doesn't stop him from getting to and winning Super Bowls.

A great D alone with Jimmy G would win enormous numbers of games for this team and go far in the playoffs. The other stuff you want but it's just bonus when you have a Franchise QB + elite defense. Everything else is just bonus after that.

I agree SD,, but i would reverse the order: ie, Good OL, (or great OL) first, and then a top D. Agree that we don't need #1 WR with Jimmy as he has averaged over 300 yds passing with guys we have...and there are no all pros out there. Just everyday good workmen who carry their lunch pail, wear their hard hats and show up at game time. But OL? Once you no longer have a so so QB...once you get a true FR QB....then you need to protect his Azz and your 137 Mil Bucks. Do that and THEN build your D. Right now we are obviously lacking a main part...EDGE rusher. Get him and our DL will look 20x better. Our DBs will look better. Add in a great Corner and there you go. We, unfortunately, following NFL protocol with Reuben, will have NO starting LB. So we have that to do also. Not just one but two at least. How many teams have NO LB? Not many.

Yeah you need both and the order doesn't matter that much to me. But with both the way we are built now we could eventually win. With an elite D and a powerful pass protecting O Line this team can go as far as you can. They sky is the limit. An accurate franchise QB just changes things so much. We used to need perfection all around. But now you can just focus on important areas since the franchise QB changes the whole deck of cards. You don't need perfection all around with that guy.

Originally posted by FL9er:

Umm, I guess you missed the Super Bowl where New England LOST with 613 yards of offense and their QB passing for 505 yards.

To be fair it was Tom Brady out there and Eagles were playing an awful Pats D who had their worst game of the year.