How to build around a franchise QB

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:

Very true. If we have a good O-line and D, we will always be in the mix so long as we have a QB. We also have to keep in mind the talent that will be available. There will be good corners, guards, and linebackers available. Pass rushers, not so much, unless we use our first round pick. And even then, I feel more secure in the first round corners (Jackson) and linebackers (Smith) that will be available than the pass rushers. Chubb looks good, but lacks the speed we will need. Landry has the speed, but Smith is more of a sure bet.

Hoping that we will address our needs but will be wise in doing so and won't reach for a player. On defense, I'm thinking we can have 10 solid starters next year and hoping that we can see more big plays from at least one guy at every level. We should have secured position for the next 2-3 years with the exception of RDE (I'm only excluding that because I don't see it being filled provided what is available.

That is my belief. Strong OL+Strong DL+Franchise QB=You're always in the hunt. Replace all the other positions as needed.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

This cracked me up! I agree with your points as well as enjoy your comedic touch.

Shanahan's offense can scheme with less that all pro players but elite players on either side of the ball are always nice to have. I would go BPA after making sure you have basic needs covered. Since they need people in almost every aspect of the team...BPA, except for QB.

If they have choices--
LB
CB
C
OG
WR

--would be my ranking looking at team talent.

What Walsh said continues to ring true. If you have the right QB, you can scheme guys open on offense and that QB will find them. The offense always has the advantage. They know exactly where the ball is going, the defense can only guess. A great playcaller and QB don't need a whole bevy of Pro Bowl level weapons, just consistent players who execute the plays at a high level.



On defense, there really aren't any shortcuts, you need legit stud players, especially up front. I think if you have the right free safety and are able to generate a pass rush with 4 guys, the other pieces can be largely interchangeable for the most part but the more overall talent you have on defense, the better.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
This cracked me up! I agree with your points as well as enjoy your comedic touch.

Shanahan's offense can scheme with less that all pro players but elite players on either side of the ball are always nice to have. I would go BPA after making sure you have basic needs covered. Since they need people in almost every aspect of the team...BPA, except for QB.

If they have choices--
LB
CB
C
OG
WR

--would be my ranking looking at team talent.

What Walsh said continues to ring true. If you have the right QB, you can scheme guys open on offense and that QB will find them. The offense always has the advantage. They know exactly where the ball is going, the defense can only guess. A great playcaller and QB don't need a whole bevy of Pro Bowl level weapons, just consistent players who execute the plays at a high level.

On defense, there really aren't any shortcuts, you need legit stud players, especially up front. I think if you have the right free safety and are able to generate a pass rush with 4 guys, the other pieces can be largely interchangeable for the most part but the more overall talent you have on defense, the better.

Walsh " Do your job" and QB's "Have to be perfect from snap to release"
perfectly said
Can't wait to see how the Front office addresses the Defence this offseason. I'd be surprised if Shanny or Lynch uses the first round pick on WR.

GB never drafted 1st round receivers. An over focus on offense isn't their problem. The ugly truth is once you pay that qb it becomes really hard to build elite anything around them.

Take a look at NE. You're looking at a team that literally trades away it's best defender every year. They get by off a few superstars and superior coaching on both ends.

In our case we got Shanny the offensive genius/ qb so o is not s problem. D needs talent because Saleh is not going to mask things.

Assuming Jimmy is the QB we all think he is AND they get his contract taken care of.... All we need is

1. Great offensive line to protect him - should be our #1 priority this off-season
2. Great defensive line (which we mostly have) which makes every part of the defense better. A great DL will make mediocre pass rushers, CBs, and safeties look like studs
3. Solid RB (single or committee) - I don't believ Hyde is a good fit for our system.

I feel those are the things needed, in that order. A great QB coupled with a good offensive mind does the same thing for offensive players that a DL does for the defense. A great QB will make mid-level WRs, TEs, and even RBs look like absolute studs.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

GB never drafted 1st round receivers. An over focus on offense isn't their problem. The ugly truth is once you pay that qb it becomes really hard to build elite anything around them.

Green Bay was never able to put together a consistent quality defense. Mostly because they failed to acquire most of the right players in the first place.



Paying a QB a lot of money isn't going to stop you from drafting wisely. As well as GB has done at drafting OL, WR and other positions, they have largely failed at building the DL during the Rodgers era.

Step 1. Sign Jimmy, NOW!! Pay. . . .That . . . . Man!!
Step 2. Sign DeMarcus Lawrence and Trumaine Johnson
Step 3. Draft a big physical WR and the top OG

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:
What Walsh said continues to ring true. If you have the right QB, you can scheme guys open on offense and that QB will find them. The offense always has the advantage. They know exactly where the ball is going, the defense can only guess. A great playcaller and QB don't need a whole bevy of Pro Bowl level weapons, just consistent players who execute the plays at a high level.

On defense, there really aren't any shortcuts, you need legit stud players, especially up front. I think if you have the right free safety and are able to generate a pass rush with 4 guys, the other pieces can be largely interchangeable for the most part but the more overall talent you have on defense, the better.

This is true, but Walsh also valued elite talent--sometimes hitting as with Rice, and often taking fliers on guys like Nehemiah. He inherited a good OL (Fahnhorst, Cross, Ayers, Quillen and Singleton) and his first draft with the 9ers included 3 RBs, 1 WR, 1 QB, 2 DT, 1 LB, and a couple of very late round DBs. None of the defensive players are remembered but Montana, Clark and perhaps Phil Francis became important players. His second draft was largely defense and he found some gems, but his first round pick was Earl Cooper.

His third draft is the one folks remember for completing a defensive backfield with great players--Lott, Wright, and Williamson...and Harty on DL. Not an offensive player until round five.

So even though I think of Walsh and the WCO as being able to use lesser talents at most positions, he did solidify the offense before he drafted his defense (third season).

Shanahan did not inherit a good OL or much elite talent at skill positions either side of the ball. Getting JG is certainly THE major step and now they need to find good fits for the OL, receivers, and defense. Their DL is decent and comparable to the one Walsh inherited, the DBs are very similar,

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Green Bay was never able to put together a consistent quality defense. Mostly because they failed to acquire most of the right players in the first place.



Paying a QB a lot of money isn't going to stop you from drafting wisely. As well as GB has done at drafting OL, WR and other positions, they have largely failed at building the DL during the Rodgers era.

Is that due to lack of effort or just a flaw in the coaching/ scouting staff?

With the cap you have limited resources and qb is the biggest chunk. If you got a great o or d coach he can maximize talent but not everyone has that at their exposal. GB didn't obsess about skilled positions, they never took a receiver in the 1st. It's just McCarthy. He's a good offensive mind and can develop that talent. Not so much everywhere else.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
This cracked me up! I agree with your points as well as enjoy your comedic touch.

Shanahan's offense can scheme with less that all pro players but elite players on either side of the ball are always nice to have. I would go BPA after making sure you have basic needs covered. Since they need people in almost every aspect of the team...BPA, except for QB.

If they have choices--
LB
CB
C
OG
WR

--would be my ranking looking at team talent.

What Walsh said continues to ring true. If you have the right QB, you can scheme guys open on offense and that QB will find them. The offense always has the advantage. They know exactly where the ball is going, the defense can only guess. A great playcaller and QB don't need a whole bevy of Pro Bowl level weapons, just consistent players who execute the plays at a high level.

On defense, there really aren't any shortcuts, you need legit stud players, especially up front. I think if you have the right free safety and are able to generate a pass rush with 4 guys, the other pieces can be largely interchangeable for the most part but the more overall talent you have on defense, the better.

Yeah, yeah, I love Bill Walsh and he was an innovator in the game of football, but we are talking about a guy who came to fame with Jerry Rice (best wide receiver of all time) and Joe Montana and Steve Young as his QB's.

:)

Yeah. It was all scheming guys open.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by tjd808185:
GB never drafted 1st round receivers. An over focus on offense isn't their problem. The ugly truth is once you pay that qb it becomes really hard to build elite anything around them.

Green Bay was never able to put together a consistent quality defense. Mostly because they failed to acquire most of the right players in the first place.

Paying a QB a lot of money isn't going to stop you from drafting wisely. As well as GB has done at drafting OL, WR and other positions, they have largely failed at building the DL during the Rodgers era.

even when they did bring in skill players on defense under dom capers they were absolutely wasted

Originally posted by bzborow1:
Yeah, yeah, I love Bill Walsh and he was an innovator in the game of football, but we are talking about a guy who came to fame with Jerry Rice (best wide receiver of all time) and Joe Montana and Steve Young as his QB's.

:)

Yeah. It was all scheming guys open.

Was Rice on his first SB winning team? No? OK then... Dwight Clark and Freddie Solomon...what QB and HC couldn't win with those two as your primary threats!? LOL!

Walsh taught QBs how to play the game, he didn't just find them lying around a beach somewhere. But Phoenix's statement is still true...having a great QB (whether you train him or someone else did) makes your job much easier. Was Rice great? He sure was and it helped spread the ball out so they could run the game out when they had a lead. Craig and Rathman balanced Rice and Taylor very well.

Another factor that worked for Walsh and then with Shanahan in Denver, and Holmgren in GB/Sea were OL who fit the scheme rather than high draft picks.

I could be wrong, but seeing the difference between Garapolo and the last two QBs...just amazing and the results demonstrate how important the QB is.

Originally posted by SJniner7:
Assuming Jimmy is the QB we all think he is AND they get his contract taken care of.... All we need is

1. Great offensive line to protect him - should be our #1 priority this off-season
2. Great defensive line (which we mostly have) which makes every part of the defense better. A great DL will make mediocre pass rushers, CBs, and safeties look like studs
3. Solid RB (single or committee) - I don't believ Hyde is a good fit for our system.

I feel those are the things needed, in that order. A great QB coupled with a good offensive mind does the same thing for offensive players that a DL does for the defense. A great QB will make mid-level WRs, TEs, and even RBs look like absolute studs.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. They need a true pass rushing DE to make this defense better. I personally think they need two of them. I hope they can get one in FA and one in the first round.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Is that due to lack of effort or just a flaw in the coaching/ scouting staff?

With the cap you have limited resources and qb is the biggest chunk. If you got a great o or d coach he can maximize talent but not everyone has that at their exposal. GB didn't obsess about skilled positions, they never took a receiver in the 1st. It's just McCarthy. He's a good offensive mind and can develop that talent. Not so much everywhere else.

They used early draft picks on guys like Datone Jones who simply never panned out.

Originally posted by bzborow1:

Yeah, yeah, I love Bill Walsh and he was an innovator in the game of football, but we are talking about a guy who came to fame with Jerry Rice (best wide receiver of all time) and Joe Montana and Steve Young as his QB's.

:)

Yeah. It was all scheming guys open.

The 49ers and Walsh had won 2 SBs before Rice ever showed up.