Preseason Game 1 2017: Thoughts after rewatching the game.... | Page 2

Marvin49 · 2017-08-14T10:10:56-07:00

Long time no see all!! More than anything else political discussion on other sites have kept me off the forum lately but I couldn't let a game go by without posting. :D 1) QB: Hard to judge Hoyer one way or the other in so short a stint, but I did love that pass to Kerley that was called back. I need to see much more from Hoyer before really saying much. Barkley looked a bit better than I'd expected although misses McDonald badly on what could have been a TD. Beathard also looked better than I'd anticipated, but the long TD showed good awareness, but not a particularly good throw. Looking forward to seeing more from this group. 2) Reuben Foster: OK. This one requires a bit of explanation. I have maintained for a long time when I talk about football and particularly young players that from time to time you can see a guy for the first time in NFL team gear and there is just something about the way they move. You can tell just from a few snaps where they might not even have a big highlight but as soon as they step on the field they just have SOMETHING that sets the apart from everyone else. I don't know how you define it, explain it, or describe it, but its just "it". Reuben Foster has it. IMO if he stays healthy he's not going to be a good player. He's going to be a GREAT player. He didn't make any big splash plays and he didn't really blow anyone up, but I could see it already. There haven't been that many times that I've seen a rookie draft pick and seen it this quickly. Patrick Willis is actually the only other time I can think of that I saw it this quickly. There were a few stops that he made that might not have made sportscenter but he just got the the ballcarrier FAST and that guy didn't gain another inch. One was the tackle that Robinson completely whiffed on (more on that later). Once Reuben got there, it was over. Another was a short pass where he swallowed up the ball carrier FAST. That is no guarantee of course that he'll be a star, but IMO he's got "it". 3) Solomon Thomas: Important to note on the "it" factor is that just because I see it so quickly in one guy that doesn't mean NOT seeing it so quickly means the guy won't be a big star in his own right. I didn't see it in Bryant Young. That poor guy got dominated in his first preseason appearance in San Diego. I didn't see it in Navarro Bowman. I didn't see it in Aldon Smith (substance problems notwithstanding, the dude was a monster when he was on the field). That said, I don't see it with Solomon. Now before anyone says anything, I DO see huge potential. He just isn't there yet. Love the motor. Love the play speed. Love the strength. He actually reminds me a lot of the last #94 to play for the 49ers. There just seems to be something kinda awkward with him that I'm having trouble getting my finger on. It might be nothing more than lack of experience as he only started one year in college and missed all OTAs. There were also a couple "wow" plays in there. The play were he completely sidestepped the guard was impressive. The TD play where he got beaten outside was actually impressive as well but not for the reason you'd think. He is not a small man. He got cut on the play but was athletic enough to keep his feet and pursue. I do like what I see and look forward to seeing his progression. 4) Rashard Robinson: Dude got beat bad on a couple plays but ya know what I liked about his game? After getting beat, he moved on to the next play. It didn't linger. He made a great play in run support and a great play on the INT (and so did Solomon on that same play BTW). The 49ers need him to be at the very least serviceable. 5) Navorro Bowman: Anyone who has followed my posts over the years might remember that I would always say that Frank Gore was showing signs of age early in the year and then invariably he would make me look foolish and rip off a few great games and show that he was still Frank. It got the the point where I started doing it intentionally anticipating that Frank would once again make me look foolish. Well now, its not Frank that see as having lost a step. Its Navorro Bowman. Considering the medical issues he's had it wouldn't exactly be shocking if he didn't have the movement skills anymore, but there was one play on Friday that really caught my eye. One play in a preseason game is FAR, FAR too little make an opinion of, but it certainly got my attention. Alex Smith scrambled up the middle because Armstead and Buckner both took wide paths to the QB. Foster spotted a RB running over the middle and quickly picked him up and ran with him to the sideline. Eric Reid nailed the RB running a cross and actually got a personal foul on the play. It left Navarro alone in the middle to chase Alex. To be fair to Navorro, he was running in one direction and Alex cut back on him, but his ability to change direction looked VERY slow. Alex beat him badly and ran right past him. Clearly, he may not have been running at 100% and in the regular season perhaps he makes a better effort....but it caught my eye and I'll be looking for that moving forward. 6) Joe Williams: Yeah, I see why Kyle wanted him. I have some questions with him like why he kept tapping out of the game and he doesn't seem as elusive as I'd like when he gets into the open field, but man that guy just moves at a different speed and he looks like he's got really good vision at the LOS. Looking forward to seeing more. 7) Matt Breida: Wasn't as impressed. I've heard great things about him and perhaps that distorted my expectations, but he reminds me a lot physically of a Niners RB from awhile back named Jamal Robertson. I'll reserve judgement, but wasn't super impressed. 8) Scheme: Isn't it a joy to see an offensive scheme that can get guys WIDE open? Stunning. So great to see a competent, NFL offense from a scheme standpoint again as opposed to college offenses. Its been the better part of a decade since they ran a true NFL passing game and its a joy to watch. 9) O-Line: Its gonna be an issue. Guard is going to be a problem. We'll see if Garnett can come back and help, but guard is probably the position that concerns me the most for THIS season. QB moving forward is obviously an issue. 10) Football is back: My god wasn't it great to see some Niners football again?

Aug 14, 2017 at 11:13 AM

#16

Marvin49
Hall of Fame
Posts: 16,506

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Totally disagree on Solomon imo you can see the "it" factor on him since day one...just by the way he approaches the game.

I can't remember, but weren't you very much against drafting foster?

#SAMPLESIZE pic.twitter.com/8L2yEooNgw
— Pro Football Focus (@PFF) August 12, 2017

That said happy to have this thread back! Always look forward to it even if we don't always see it the same.

1) Don't get me wrong. The "it" I'm referring to is something I can't describe really...just an athletic ability that just looks nearly inhuman. I loved what I saw from Solomon he just has some work to do.

2) No, I wasn't against drafting Foster predraft and just about jumped out of my seat when I saw they traded up.

[ Edited by Marvin49 on Aug 14, 2017 at 11:16 AM ]

Aug 14, 2017 at 11:14 AM

#17

Marvin49
Hall of Fame
Posts: 16,506

Originally posted by JustinNiner:
Good to see these posts again!

Marvin, what do you think of Bourne? something special or just preseason plays made against subpar talent. To me, that 2pt conversion pass showed great value. The ability to win those 1-on-1 matches is great. I hope to see more of him and push for that WR6 spot

I kinda think that was just a preseason thing. The TD was caused by a fallen defender, but the 2 pt conversion was more impressive to me.

Aug 14, 2017 at 11:17 AM

#18

Giedi
Veteran
Posts: 34,498

Originally posted by Joecool:
On Bowman, he actually reminded me of the older Ray Lewis by the way he moved. Hope he gets his game legs back like he did last season just before he got hurt.

Agree, and even if he is 1,000% recovered, Id still want to get depth behind him. Reuben is a great start to keeping that position strong, and maybe add more depth in next years free agency/draft cycle.

Aug 14, 2017 at 11:20 AM

#19

49AllTheTime
Veteran
Posts: 72,918

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by JustinNiner:
Good to see these posts again!

Marvin, what do you think of Bourne? something special or just preseason plays made against subpar talent. To me, that 2pt conversion pass showed great value. The ability to win those 1-on-1 matches is great. I hope to see more of him and push for that WR6 spot

I kinda think that was just a preseason thing. The TD was caused by a fallen defender, but the 2 pt conversion was more impressive to me.

Bourne did break his ankles whiched caused him to fall (Db)

[ Edited by 49AllTheTime on Aug 14, 2017 at 11:21 AM ]

Aug 14, 2017 at 11:26 AM

#20

NYniner85
Veteran
Posts: 119,137

Originally posted by Marvin49:
1) Don't get me wrong. The "it" I'm referring to is something I can't describe really...just an athletic ability that just looks nearly inhuman. I loved what I saw from Solomon he just has some work to do.

2) No, I wasn't against drafting Foster predraft and just about jumped out of my seat when I saw they traded up.

Okay my bad, I can't remember who's draft thread was dead set against drafting him based on off field stuff (didn't think he had leadership skills) and had him far down on their draft board 🤔

I wasn't on the bandwagon for foster at two I'll admit that, but at 31 hell ya lol.

See to me his (Thomas) athletic ability is one of the major things that jumps off the screen... He also seems very polished for a 21 yr old. He's just scratching the surface which is amazing

If both these guys can stay healthy we got some cornerstones on D for years

I also agree OL is gonna be an issue this yr and I'll add DB to that list as well....I hope that's something that is worked on hard next off season.

[ Edited by NYniner85 on Aug 14, 2017 at 11:29 AM ]

Aug 14, 2017 at 11:30 AM

#21

thl408
Moderator
Posts: 33,332

Nice to have you back Marvin. Agree on Foster. Not only does he have "it" on the field, he also seems to bring it with his intangibles. He's going to be a leader type for this defense. He's got instincts on top of instincts.

You sure graded tough on Solly. I thought he flashed more than just a couple times. For a guy that had little practice time with the team, facing NFL action for the first time, I thought he was awesome. I knew he would play against the 2s. Did not want to see him get overwhelmed and he wasn't.

The new offensive scheme is going to take awhile to install. It is a complete opposite from last season where Chip rarely substituted and used two personnel groups the majority of the team. Kyle will substitute a lot and we saw the consequences of this when they aligned incorrectly to negate a would be 3rd down conversion. Guys sub in and out, have to learn so many formations, line up incorrectly.

Aug 14, 2017 at 11:32 AM

#22

NYniner85
Veteran
Posts: 119,137

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by JustinNiner:
Good to see these posts again!

Marvin, what do you think of Bourne? something special or just preseason plays made against subpar talent. To me, that 2pt conversion pass showed great value. The ability to win those 1-on-1 matches is great. I hope to see more of him and push for that WR6 spot

I kinda think that was just a preseason thing. The TD was caused by a fallen defender, but the 2 pt conversion was more impressive to me.

Bourne did break his ankles whiched caused him to fall (Db)

I had been watching his workouts (when he couldn't come to camp cause of school) and film (draftbreakdown) and any other clips I could find and I was really impressed with him. Strong hands, quick feet, and he has a smoothness to his route running.

Really hope he makes the team, but he's gonna have to get rolling on the ST stuff.

Aug 14, 2017 at 11:33 AM

#23

Giedi
Veteran
Posts: 34,498

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by JustinNiner:
Good to see these posts again!

Marvin, what do you think of Bourne? something special or just preseason plays made against subpar talent. To me, that 2pt conversion pass showed great value. The ability to win those 1-on-1 matches is great. I hope to see more of him and push for that WR6 spot

I kinda think that was just a preseason thing. The TD was caused by a fallen defender, but the 2 pt conversion was more impressive to me.

Bourne did break his ankles whiched caused him to fall (Db)

Now that was an impressive move.

Aug 14, 2017 at 11:36 AM

#24

LasVegasWally
Veteran
Posts: 24,886

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Joecool:
On Bowman, he actually reminded me of the older Ray Lewis by the way he moved. Hope he gets his game legs back like he did last season just before he got hurt.

Agree, and even if he is 1,000% recovered, Id still want to get depth behind him. Reuben is a great start to keeping that position strong, and maybe add more depth in next years free agency/draft cycle.

Good call!

I hope he progresses into game #2

We'll have a better idea by the time preseason is over.

[ Edited by LasVegasWally on Aug 14, 2017 at 11:37 AM ]

Aug 14, 2017 at 11:39 AM

#25

Marvin49
Hall of Fame
Posts: 16,506

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Marvin49:
1) Don't get me wrong. The "it" I'm referring to is something I can't describe really...just an athletic ability that just looks nearly inhuman. I loved what I saw from Solomon he just has some work to do.

2) No, I wasn't against drafting Foster predraft and just about jumped out of my seat when I saw they traded up.

Okay my bad, I can't remember who's draft thread was dead set against drafting him based on off field stuff (didn't think he had leadership skills) and had him far down on their draft board 🤔

I wasn't on the bandwagon for foster at two I'll admit that, but at 31 hell ya lol.

See to me his (Thomas) athletic ability is one of the major things that jumps off the screen... He also seems very polished for a 21 yr old. He's just scratching the surface which is amazing

If both these guys can stay healthy we got some cornerstones on D for years

I also agree OL is gonna be an issue this yr and I'll add DB to that list as well....I hope that's something that is worked on hard next off season.

Who knows, next week I could be saying that I see "it".

My point about "it" though was more of something I RARELY see in any player this early and not seeing it doesn't at all mean they won't be a superstar.

Solomon probably had a better game than Reuben did. This is what I'm trying to get at...the "it" I'm talking about can't really be described. Its not just athleticism. Its not just any one or 2 things. Its just something I know when I see it and Reuben has it.

a few weeks from now I could be seeing those same things in Solomon, but I rarely see something that tells me right off the bat "star". Not "look he looks pretty good and played really well" but otherworldly "OMG that dudes not human".

Rueben didn't even really have any splash plays so as I've said before, I can't describe it.

Make no mistake though, I'm very happy with how good Solomon looked particularly in light of how little he played at Stanford and how he missed all of OTAs.

Aug 14, 2017 at 11:42 AM

#26

Marvin49
Hall of Fame
Posts: 16,506

Originally posted by thl408:
Nice to have you back Marvin. Agree on Foster. Not only does he have "it" on the field, he also seems to bring it with his intangibles. He's going to be a leader type for this defense. He's got instincts on top of instincts.

You sure graded tough on Solly. I thought he flashed more than just a couple times. For a guy that had little practice time with the team, facing NFL action for the first time, I thought he was awesome. I knew he would play against the 2s. Did not want to see him get overwhelmed and he wasn't.

The new offensive scheme is going to take awhile to install. It is a complete opposite from last season where Chip rarely substituted and used two personnel groups the majority of the team. Kyle will substitute a lot and we saw the consequences of this when they aligned incorrectly to negate a would be 3rd down conversion. Guys sub in and out, have to learn so many formations, line up incorrectly.

LOL.

See...I knew when I said that Foster had "it" and I didn't see it in Solomon (yet) it might have been misconstrued.

To be clear, Solomon played a better game than Reuben did and had some flash plays in there that were really impressive.

Aug 14, 2017 at 11:58 AM

#27

NYniner85
Veteran
Posts: 119,137

Originally posted by Marvin49:
Originally posted by NYniner85:
Originally posted by Marvin49:
1) Don't get me wrong. The "it" I'm referring to is something I can't describe really...just an athletic ability that just looks nearly inhuman. I loved what I saw from Solomon he just has some work to do.

2) No, I wasn't against drafting Foster predraft and just about jumped out of my seat when I saw they traded up.

Okay my bad, I can't remember who's draft thread was dead set against drafting him based on off field stuff (didn't think he had leadership skills) and had him far down on their draft board 🤔

I wasn't on the bandwagon for foster at two I'll admit that, but at 31 hell ya lol.

See to me his (Thomas) athletic ability is one of the major things that jumps off the screen... He also seems very polished for a 21 yr old. He's just scratching the surface which is amazing

If both these guys can stay healthy we got some cornerstones on D for years

I also agree OL is gonna be an issue this yr and I'll add DB to that list as well....I hope that's something that is worked on hard next off season.

Who knows, next week I could be saying that I see "it".

My point about "it" though was more of something I RARELY see in any player this early and not seeing it doesn't at all mean they won't be a superstar.

Solomon probably had a better game than Reuben did. This is what I'm trying to get at...the "it" I'm talking about can't really be described. Its not just athleticism. Its not just any one or 2 things. Its just something I know when I see it and Reuben has it.

a few weeks from now I could be seeing those same things in Solomon, but I rarely see something that tells me right off the bat "star". Not "look he looks pretty good and played really well" but otherworldly "OMG that dudes not human".

Rueben didn't even really have any splash plays so as I've said before, I can't describe it.

Make no mistake though, I'm very happy with how good Solomon looked particularly in light of how little he played at Stanford and how he missed all of OTAs.

No doubt I know what you're saying

Aug 14, 2017 at 11:59 AM

#28

JCStormbringer
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Posts: 25

Anybody noticed how Hoyer double tap before letting the ball go? a couple of throws he allowed the defender to react and break the play.

Aug 14, 2017 at 11:59 AM

#29

Willisfn4life
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Posts: 7,343

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Okay my bad, I can't remember who's draft thread was dead set against drafting him based on off field stuff (didn't think he had leadership skills) and had him far down on their draft board 🤔

I wasn't on the bandwagon for foster at two I'll admit that, but at 31 hell ya lol.

See to me his (Thomas) athletic ability is one of the major things that jumps off the screen... He also seems very polished for a 21 yr old. He's just scratching the surface which is amazing

If both these guys can stay healthy we got some cornerstones on D for years

I also agree OL is gonna be an issue this yr and I'll add DB to that list as well....I hope that's something that is worked on hard next off season.

Maddog was against drafting Foster, but not for his physical traits but for his mental.

Aug 14, 2017 at 12:09 PM

#30

NCommand
Hall of Fame
Posts: 123,365

Yeah, Rueben is the kind of kid that if we're down, will be on the sidelines pumping everyone up. Real intangibles.