Injuries - 9-Year Analysis

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Also hitting harder because of the size and strength.

That is somewhat balanced out because it was far more a free-for-all when it came to taking out receivers over the middle, laying out QB's, etc. etc.

Originally posted by RickyRoma:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Also hitting harder because of the size and strength.

That is somewhat balanced out because it was far more a free-for-all when it came to taking out receivers over the middle, laying out QB's, etc. etc.

And heads-up tackling techniques, no blocking or hitting a QB below the waist, no spearing or leading with the helmet (unless it's Jimmy or Crabtree in a Superbowl), special teams changes, league geared towards shotgun and 300 yard passing norms (see Bosa held on every down), etc.

Kwon Alexander just hit the IR once again...

Originally posted by kazak13:
Kwon Alexander just hit the IR once again...

Gold point. Again I look at certain examples - Gore, Rice. They train extremely hard and have had a relatively injury free career vs guys like Kwon. John Lynch had injuries early in his career then he didn't. What changed? If the 49ers can figure that out, that would be worth multiple Superbowls with Kyle's coaching ability. Maybe Paarag can write into the contracts something about training hard in the offseason and the 49ers will have their back - injury wise.

Originally posted by RickyRoma:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
Unfortunately the league is trying to legislate the injuries away by passing more and more rules that prohibit contact. This doesn't really address the problem that you bring up. Many of the injuries happen with little of no contact. Players are bigger and faster but in many cases not in great shape. New NFL rules prohibit players from working out at team facilities or team sponsored events as much as they used to so they have to work out on their own.

Just the opposite....they are in a physhically immense shape, but as they gain tons of muscle mass, the ligaments stay as is.......Sooner or later, something has to give.

All people need to see is how the league was 30+ years ago when it wasn't all about lifting weights and the science behind the scenes......it's really night and day.

I meant to say game shape. Even though they are bigger and stronger they don't get as much contact in practice as they used to. Getting hit by guys that big and fast is something your body has to adjust to. I also wonder about flexibility and elasticity in ligaments, tendons and muscles. Most players take supplements of some kind whether legal or illegal. I wonder about the long term side effects they might have. I remember that during the steroid era in baseball a lot was made about how it could shorten a player's career because it made them more susceptible to injuries.

Good news?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
There are already several guys out for the season. Not just the Niners. I heard Bulaga and someone else just went on the IR with back injuries. Last night we say that tackle from the Giants get carted off with a broken leg. The Cowboys and Ravens have both been hit really hard already. I know we've had a lot of injuries the last few seasons but so have a lot of other teams. Injuries are usually just a matter of being in the wrong position at the wrong time.

So the 9ers are always in the wrong position at the wrong time for 8 straight years?

Injuries can run in cycles and the Niners are obviously in a bad one now. The other teams that are suffering a lot are probably saying the same things that we are. Then you have a few teams that are staying healthy (relatively) through this period. It's not a lot different than draft picks. You can go through a period where all your top picks are working and then all of a sudden it's miss after miss. We can try and figure out why it's happening and I'm sure the team has looked into it but in the end it still comes down to bad luck. With all the data that they have now there's no way I believe that the training and conditioning for the Niners is the cause of this. They all use basically the same techniques to get in shape. Maybe they just have a few more players that are susceptible to injuries. Jimmy's been hurt a lot but do you think it's because he trains differently than say Stafford or Wilson who never seem to get seriously injured? I don't.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I don't think that's what he's referencing at all. He's saying the recent "science" focus is a contributing factor in the volume of these injuries because these tactics are taking away from the old school mindset of simply, grabbing a bar and building up callouses. That mentality had them as the 8th and 1st healthiest team in Harbaugh's first two years. 4th under Singletary.

Kyle's approach has had them at 23rd, 29th, 27th & 32nd.

Science ain't working.

The players union has negotiated for so much mandatory off time that players just dont get in enough reps anymore. Like Staley said, they used to work hard and develop a callous of strength and toughness. Now its like everything is light and half speed, and then they enter games and ramp it up and their bodies break.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
There are already several guys out for the season. Not just the Niners. I heard Bulaga and someone else just went on the IR with back injuries. Last night we say that tackle from the Giants get carted off with a broken leg. The Cowboys and Ravens have both been hit really hard already. I know we've had a lot of injuries the last few seasons but so have a lot of other teams. Injuries are usually just a matter of being in the wrong position at the wrong time.

So the 9ers are always in the wrong position at the wrong time for 8 straight years?

Injuries can run in cycles and the Niners are obviously in a bad one now. The other teams that are suffering a lot are probably saying the same things that we are. Then you have a few teams that are staying healthy (relatively) through this period. It's not a lot different than draft picks. You can go through a period where all your top picks are working and then all of a sudden it's miss after miss. We can try and figure out why it's happening and I'm sure the team has looked into it but in the end it still comes down to bad luck. With all the data that they have now there's no way I believe that the training and conditioning for the Niners is the cause of this. They all use basically the same techniques to get in shape. Maybe they just have a few more players that are susceptible to injuries. Jimmy's been hurt a lot but do you think it's because he trains differently than say Stafford or Wilson who never seem to get seriously injured? I don't.

Jimmy tends to think he's still a linebacker and dives forward instead of sliding, in my opinion. Like when he hurt his knee, he was taking on a defender instead of simply going out of bounds. Mostert looked like he was struggling for extra yardage on the second carry when he was injured. It looked like one guy grabbed his leg as he was twisted around by another guy when he went down. Gore just gets to the ground as soon as he can or somehow avoids being twisted while going down.

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I don't think that's what he's referencing at all. He's saying the recent "science" focus is a contributing factor in the volume of these injuries because these tactics are taking away from the old school mindset of simply, grabbing a bar and building up callouses. That mentality had them as the 8th and 1st healthiest team in Harbaugh's first two years. 4th under Singletary.

Kyle's approach has had them at 23rd, 29th, 27th & 32nd.

Science ain't working.

The players union has negotiated for so much mandatory off time that players just dont get in enough reps anymore. Like Staley said, they used to work hard and develop a callous of strength and toughness. Now its like everything is light and half speed, and then they enter games and ramp it up and their bodies break.

I agree, I think Staley is on to something, but I have no clue how to proceed forward on that idea.

Agree, Giedi, we have done EVERYTHING BUT go the old school route and make the practices nut busters. Irony is, most of this was demanded by NFLPA , who of course were echoing the Players Assn needs and wants.

Well, they got what they want. What i wonder is , are we now at the point where the only way to "harden" our guys is to break the rules of NFLPA and toughen guys up?

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I don't think that's what he's referencing at all. He's saying the recent "science" focus is a contributing factor in the volume of these injuries because these tactics are taking away from the old school mindset of simply, grabbing a bar and building up callouses. That mentality had them as the 8th and 1st healthiest team in Harbaugh's first two years. 4th under Singletary.

Kyle's approach has had them at 23rd, 29th, 27th & 32nd.

Science ain't working.

The players union has negotiated for so much mandatory off time that players just dont get in enough reps anymore. Like Staley said, they used to work hard and develop a callous of strength and toughness. Now its like everything is light and half speed, and then they enter games and ramp it up and their bodies break.

I agree, I think Staley is on to something, but I have no clue how to proceed forward on that idea.

The CBA only sets parameters for times, when you can start wearing pads, when you can have live contact, etc.

What you do in between the lines seems to have been taken over by GPS's monitors and sports science and nutrition.

Hell, the CBA even allows you to incentivize players to show up to lift weights in the off season.

So I think these are conscious choices by some teams...maybe many teams. But I think the CBA parameters are becoming a false excuse.

I do agree that the three-a-days are gone though.

The Rams have all their starters healthy.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Agree, Giedi, we have done EVERYTHING BUT go the old school route and make the practices nut busters. Irony is, most of this was demanded by NFLPA , who of course were echoing the Players Assn needs and wants.

Well, they got what they want. What i wonder is , are we now at the point where the only way to "harden" our guys is to break the rules of NFLPA and toughen guys up?

Agree. But also don't think you need to break any rules. I think you just try to get guys that have good training habits **or** develop them in your current players and have those be a criteria when grading the players you keep versus those who you let go. As you and NC always say, the best ability is availability. Blubber Paris came into camp out of shape every camp, the first thing Bill did was draft a guy to take his place once Blubber ate one too many chicken wings for Bills patience. The change in the front office criteria on injured players, I think, is a step in the right direction, but not enough. I think they also need to really look at each players offseason training regimine and grade it accordingly.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by Niners99:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I don't think that's what he's referencing at all. He's saying the recent "science" focus is a contributing factor in the volume of these injuries because these tactics are taking away from the old school mindset of simply, grabbing a bar and building up callouses. That mentality had them as the 8th and 1st healthiest team in Harbaugh's first two years. 4th under Singletary.

Kyle's approach has had them at 23rd, 29th, 27th & 32nd.

Science ain't working.

The players union has negotiated for so much mandatory off time that players just dont get in enough reps anymore. Like Staley said, they used to work hard and develop a callous of strength and toughness. Now its like everything is light and half speed, and then they enter games and ramp it up and their bodies break.

I agree, I think Staley is on to something, but I have no clue how to proceed forward on that idea.

The CBA only sets parameters for times, when you can start wearing pads, when you can have live contact, etc.

What you do in between the lines seems to have been taken over by GPS's monitors and sports science and nutrition.

Hell, the CBA even allows you to incentivize players to show up to lift weights in the off season.

So I think these are conscious choices by some teams...maybe many teams. But I think the CBA parameters are becoming a false excuse.

I do agree that the three-a-days are gone though.

I agree, I think sports science may be over emphasized, to the point that players don't have the contact experience to protect themselves from injury. As I said in my response to Doc, Mostert was seemingly trying to do too much in trying to gain yardage instead of protecting himself by ducking the tackle and going down. Same with Jimmy, he wouldn't have gotten his knee injured if he simply would have gotten out of bounds instead of taking on the defender. Those two examples maybe could have been changed if they had more contact in the offseason to where they instinctively protect themselves instead of overdoing it in trying to gain yardage. I don't know. I'm just frustrated these injuries just keep happening and I have no clue how to figure it out.