Injuries - 9-Year Analysis

Originally posted by blizzuntz:
If you stop testing for injuries , then they won't be injured

LMAO. If only Trump had bought the Buffalo Bills. These kinds of headlines would be epic from him as an owner on the daily.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm personally not too concerned about these specific players. Although I think Moore had a chance to play a significant role and Wilson did score 100 TD's last year.

We're obviously more concerned with a potential trend starting again here. Hopefully it's very minimal going forward. Or at least reasonable.

Wilson and Kamara won me my fantasy championship...so he's always gonna have a place in my heart

That said I'm all ears on what they should do to "fix" this IMO it's June and that's when a lot of these injuries happen...just cross your fingers that it's not someone meaningful (no disrespect to Skule/Wilson/Moore).

Sounds like Moore's injury isn't the worst form of a rupture achilles….Barrows said 4-6 month timeline (usually 9-12 months)

Hearing that Tarvarius Moore's injury is the classic Achille tear, one that has a recovery time of 4 to 6 months. Some players (See: Michael Crabtree in 2013) can come back and play at the end of the season.

— Matt Barrows (@mattbarrows) June 8, 2021

Haha, nice! Yeah, nothing wrong with moving on and talking next steps. Just as long as those steps don't lead to more ACL's, Achilles, and hammy tears. LOL

Originally posted by NCommand:
Haha, nice! Yeah, nothing wrong with moving on and talking next steps. Just as long as those steps don't lead to more ACL's, Achilles, and hammy tears. LOL

I just don't see how ligament injuries are avoidable in football? Sucks and it's mind-blowing how much it happens here....but it's part of the game.

These guys gotta come to OTAs in better shape IMO...it's tough to do that unless you're training at the facility months prior.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:


real football player

FTFY

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Haha, nice! Yeah, nothing wrong with moving on and talking next steps. Just as long as those steps don't lead to more ACL's, Achilles, and hammy tears. LOL

I just don't see how ligament injuries are avoidable in football? Sucks and it's mind-blowing how much it happens here....but it's part of the game.

These guys gotta come to OTAs in better shape IMO...it's tough to do that unless you're training at the facility months prior.

Well my understanding is soft tissue injuries happen from over use. So maybe they need to come in worst shape.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by richterkbelmont:

Originally posted by Joecool:
Could stressing joints have a lot to do with injuries? Seems like the offseason is all about increasing the squat and the bench and the clean, but these movements put a s**t load of stress on the joints/tendons/ligaments.

I really feel that weightlifting strength is not as valuable as playing strength bodyweight strength. Think there needs to be a balancing point to whether or not squatting 550lbs as opposed to 450lbs is valuable in terms of on-field performance to joint stress ratio.

I guess it depends on the position.
For Justin Skule it's very important, otherwise look at 2020 McGlinchey. Skule plays a position where 100% of the snaps is contact with a behemoth going for your QB or ball carrier.
For Moore and Wilson it's important but not so much as other aspects of their game.
But indeed, weight lifting is very stressful on joints and can lead to injuries if it's not managed properly. That's why anyone who lift weights need a personal trainer to guide on their routines, diets, rest periods, warmups and cooldowns, etc.

Personally, I don't think 50 to 100 pounds of strength matters much unless a guy is squatting 150 and the other is squatting 300. Natural strength is highly underrated.

I truly believe the offseason training the players do these days affects in-season injuries. Back in the day, the players hardly did anything and their bodies were well-rested. Out of shape, but the joints and muscles were very well rested.

These types of non-contact injuries point directly to over training or fatigue.

Maybe Trump is onto something.

Over training is simply not proper training, which is (i think) the responsibility of the S & C guys. Also I think the PED use (or overuse) should be addressed or at least factored in by the S & C guys when doing their assessments and what not. If they see a guy go from zero to 250+ lbs in a week, they have got to act and train the guy differently than a guy who doesn't seem to be on PEDs. Obviously the player can hide his PED use from the trainers, but the S & C guys should be trained in detecting PED use, not for the purpose of law enforcement, but to help the player avoid injuries. S & C guys may even just have to assume *everybody* is on PEDs and train accordingly.

Doc's post, I think, is a good starting point to look at this again. I don't think ShanaLynch should ever stop looking at the injury issues, and they should continue to review and change (like what they did in adjusting their scouting reports) every year. This year should be no different. Injuries become a HUGE factor in the current NFL because talent is so spread thin, that an injury to one guy can tank your season.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Haha, nice! Yeah, nothing wrong with moving on and talking next steps. Just as long as those steps don't lead to more ACL's, Achilles, and hammy tears. LOL

I just don't see how ligament injuries are avoidable in football? Sucks and it's mind-blowing how much it happens here....but it's part of the game.

These guys gotta come to OTAs in better shape IMO...it's tough to do that unless you're training at the facility months prior.

Well my understanding is soft tissue injuries happen from over use. So maybe they need to come in worst shape.

Crock mirroring one of my theories.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by Hopper:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by A-R-S:
How can someone NOT be fired, at this point........ really hope grant asks the question at the next presser.

If there was a way to avoid soft tissue injuries and someone disregarded it and it led to injuries id agree. But unfortunately that's not the case.

Unfortunately these aren't just soft tissue injuries.

Achilles' tendon and ACL aren't soft tissues?

Sprains, strains, and contusions are more common soft tissue injuries.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Haha, nice! Yeah, nothing wrong with moving on and talking next steps. Just as long as those steps don't lead to more ACL's, Achilles, and hammy tears. LOL

I just don't see how ligament injuries are avoidable in football? Sucks and it's mind-blowing how much it happens here....but it's part of the game.

These guys gotta come to OTAs in better shape IMO...it's tough to do that unless you're training at the facility months prior.

Well my understanding is soft tissue injuries happen from over use. So maybe they need to come in worst shape.

Crock mirroring one of my theories.

NFL teams used to practice for like 3 hours or something crazy.. and that's not even including Summer 2 a days. Brutal practices. Full padded. Hitting & all. And definitely didn't have training resources like teams do today. Yet, there are way more injuries. Why is that?

— Crocky⚡️ (@eric_crocker) June 8, 2021

Is there data to support it? Or is it because now in the twitter social media era it's more widely reported?

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Haha, nice! Yeah, nothing wrong with moving on and talking next steps. Just as long as those steps don't lead to more ACL's, Achilles, and hammy tears. LOL

I just don't see how ligament injuries are avoidable in football? Sucks and it's mind-blowing how much it happens here....but it's part of the game.

These guys gotta come to OTAs in better shape IMO...it's tough to do that unless you're training at the facility months prior.

Well my understanding is soft tissue injuries happen from over use. So maybe they need to come in worst shape.

Crock mirroring one of my theories.

NFL teams used to practice for like 3 hours or something crazy.. and that's not even including Summer 2 a days. Brutal practices. Full padded. Hitting & all. And definitely didn't have training resources like teams do today. Yet, there are way more injuries. Why is that?

— Crocky⚡️ (@eric_crocker) June 8, 2021

Is there data to support it? Or is it because now in the twitter social media era it's more widely reported?

it's simple.. there is just more wear and tear...

Pros are training year round.. right after the Super Bowl ...you see all these back to the grind tweets. They should just rest

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Haha, nice! Yeah, nothing wrong with moving on and talking next steps. Just as long as those steps don't lead to more ACL's, Achilles, and hammy tears. LOL

I just don't see how ligament injuries are avoidable in football? Sucks and it's mind-blowing how much it happens here....but it's part of the game.

These guys gotta come to OTAs in better shape IMO...it's tough to do that unless you're training at the facility months prior.

Well my understanding is soft tissue injuries happen from over use. So maybe they need to come in worst shape.

Crock mirroring one of my theories.

NFL teams used to practice for like 3 hours or something crazy.. and that's not even including Summer 2 a days. Brutal practices. Full padded. Hitting & all. And definitely didn't have training resources like teams do today. Yet, there are way more injuries. Why is that?

— Crocky⚡️ (@eric_crocker) June 8, 2021

And guys weren't as big or fast…we can build up the muscles and get larger but the ligaments overall aren't getting as big as the rest of the player.

also there was injuries, they just didn't have SM reporting every little thing and guys just played regardless.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
it's simple.. there is just more wear and tear...

Pros are training year round.. right after the Super Bowl ...you see all these back to the grind tweets. They should just rest

Well also part of the issue is they don't train enough prior to the beginning of camp…that's where soft issue injures happen.

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by wolverine:

Originally posted by Hysterikal:

Originally posted by wolverine:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by wolverine:
HahahaHahahahah more complaining from our fanbase because a scrub tackle and backup safety got injured. Who the f**k cares. Those 2 guys weren't even making the team anyway. I can't wait for September when we begin my quest for six unlike everybody else

And Jeff Wilson? You don't think Tarvarius Moore was making the team? LOL

They're backups who gives a flying f**k.

Real fans who understand it takes a team not just starters.

Real fans know that every team has injuries so the 49ers aren't the only one. But go ahead and say the niners are cursed and aren't doing anything this season because we're cursed. It's in your blood as a "niner fan"

I never said they were cursed. I always accept injuries just happen in a contact sport. But you know everything about this fan base continue to lecture us about how wise you are. While your still here

Wolverine, you are really in denial! None of us are claiming we're not going to do anything this year. On the contrary, most of us are predicting the Niners to at least make the playoffs. What we are saying and you are obviously not understanding or able to grasp the concept of, is the fact the 49ers are injured at a higher rate than most of the league. It has been going on for seven and now eight years. That is a fact. Did you even look at the chart posted? Or wait, you're in denial about that too.

Originally posted by ronniefreakinlott42:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Just spent a week at UCLA with my wife with the ENT oncology head guy, no more than early 40s, but altho in private practice, remains as Assistant Professor at UCLA Med School, and has 4 yrs of med school, a yr of internship, 5 yrs of residency in ENT, then 4 yrs fellowship in ENT, followed by another three yrs of fellowship in an associated field, and probably only 40. He has students, interns, residents, fellows, all following him around, learning from the master. Including med school i think he has 17 yrs more training. Yeah, think on that a moment. On top of that, the guy is just an outstanding person.

Point is, altho i have 2 specialties and 6 yrs of training post medical school, there are those guys out there, superhuman, super trained docs, that literally know everything. (Not I). I would be very surprised if we did not have some orthopedists on the team who are also still involved in academia, ie, taking on residents and fellows, that also have a private practice but stay right at the top of their field with current literature, so they know every new bit of orthopedic new info that comes out. But for what ever reason that has not been enough.

Pretty obvious that hiring guys with pre-existing injury (for less $$) has been a disaster for us (moneyball), and that alone will help put a dent in the injury business. But maybe we need to reshuffle our team docs/ S&C guys and instead go with guys who are still in academia but have a private practice, including 49ers. I don't know for sure, but would not be surprised if we had one orthopod for ankles (incl high ankles), another for knees, another for hamstrings, another specializing in groin pulls, and others specializing in upper extremity injury.. Still it might be worth while to see if there are others out there , still Assistant professors at Stanford (or UCSF, UCLA) who also have a private practice. For example, What we would be looking for is someone who has written definitive scientific publications on "HIGH ANKLES" ,or "Hamstring injuries", or Knee (ligaments and cartilage ACL, PCL, MCL, LCL, medial and lateral meniscus), or GROIN PULLs, so THEY are the ones with the most recent papers (and knowledge) on the below the waist injuries, and are still publishing new ways of prevention, treatment , and so on, in each specific category. For our players, a general orthopedist is fine, but a younger guy with 10-14 yrs of post doc residency and fellowship would be a whole lot better, especially if he remained on as an assistant clinical professor at one of the aforementioned universities.

It has been so long that i had forgotten just how good the BEST can be. Last week at UCLA reminded me of that. I strongly believe we should be looking for those kinds of docs on our staff who know the moment some new gee-gaw is out that will revolutionize treatment or prevention of ankles, hammies, knees, or groins. Maybe the wizened older guys isn't where we should be looking. Surely wouldn't hurt to have one or more of them too, but i am talking about the younger incredibly multi-yr trained specialist in each of the anatomical areas we are getting killed in.

In S& C, IDK. I have taken the position that football S&C would seem to be better than those specializing in hockey for reasons noted before. In hockey you got skates…and NOT CLEATS. Makes a helluva difference in the injuries seen between the two sports. I applaud JL and KS for thinking out of the box, but just feel we are better going with S&C guys with football specialty, and who remain on teaching staffs at major universities. Also , look for S&C guys, like docs, who are writing definitive papers on S &C, and by still being in Academia, are up on every new thing that comes down the pike.

Were i in charge of troubleshooting our injury issues, this is where i would start…after first making the first move of schid canning moneyball…which kS/JL already did.. No more injury players, regardless of how good they used to be. Julio was a great case in point. (Missed 7 games last yr with nagging injuries…sound familiar?")

Note, i am not an expert in team injuries, but if asked, these are the kinds of guys i would be constantly seeking. Just exactly like KS/JL do for players.

Very insightful. Thanks, Doc!

Thanks for that! Pasodoc, do you think theres anything to do with injuries pertaining to the size of today's athletes as well as the sport specific training these kids go through at such an early age? Speaking generally.

We've been up there with league injuries the past few seasons and the trend continues and you've brought up excellent points 🤬🤬🤬

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Well also part of the issue is they don't train enough prior to the beginning of camp…that's where soft issue injures happen.

You are exactly right.. when the players rest and loaf around... that is when the pulled muscles and things happen. the last thing they need is alot of rest