Which current 49ers fit in a 4-3 defense, which don't, and what will it look like

Originally posted by Lobo49er:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Still don't know how the hell teams running 3-4s haven't made a trade yet. I'm hoping someone during the draft on day two or three wakes up. Rams need to make a playoff push... I hope we can make a trade with them. Makes sense for both sides IMO.

Brockers,Johnson,Ogletree and Donald gonna have to be paid. Safeties/CBs are questionable. Barron is a question in base downs,Quinn has been injured and has back issues, Barwin is a short term deal.

Redskins need a 3-4 end. Of course, that would require Dan wanting to deal with Shanny, so, outlook: not so good.

Atleast Washington has been in the 3-4 system for years. I hope Snead with no first rounder is thinking he'll wait till draft day to get a couple veterans or he's that confident some rookies will be solid contributors day one.

This is a team that thong they were a QB away from playoffs.. not looking that way for me. My brother is a Rams fan and he says he's not worried, if I was thinking playoffs or bust I'd be hella worried but okay.

2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds we should stock up on DBs and Pass Rush with all the depth there

Originally posted by Kuya:
2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds we should stock up on DBs and Pass Rush with all the depth there

For real...ER in the 2nd, tons of CB's...I even have Brian Allen going to us in the 6th. I can't believe how many tall, long, fast press CB's are in this draft.

Well, that is a great time to have the 2nd pick in each rd, AND doubles at rds 4-7. If there truly were that many good CBs out there, likelihood is 31 other teams gonna be taking them also. Nonetheless, last 4 rds we have 2nd pick each rd and then we also have our doubles. If we could legitimately bring 4-6 long tall press corners into camp, i would do it. It has been the one position we have not had going back many yrs. And every yr it seems there is one or two who disappear early...but those are starter CBs. Not watching that much college, i am guessing most of these guys are not starter quality, but if we get a passel of them, maybe a couple come thru.

Smokes has posted the possibility of taking DB/WR at #1 and 2 picks. If that DB were a corner, then we would have an IMPACT CB early and hopefully could find another starter from the 4-6 we get in later rds. Again, this is not the 2000-2016 49ers. This crew has a great HC/OC, an inexperienced Saleh, but a GM DB who knows the backside of a D. We couldn't be better off right now come draft time. That isn't to imply Lynch doesn't know the front 7, because we know he does. He just so happens to have superb knowledge re: his old position, and what to look for in guys playing it. I suspect that knowledge transcends the entire D, making this the best possible time to fix the D...or at least, get a good start on it. As kuya mentions above, rds 2-4, but also rd 1, is for pass rush. It'll be interesting to see where we take that first pick on D...front pass rush or Corner. Probably pass rush, but i suppose it depends on who is there at time of pick. If equivalence in CB and PR, it should be PR early. Damn that last win , ahhggg...like i said pre-game, it gave kap a chance to fatten up his resume. But it sure didn't help us any...and the irony is didn't help him either. You know the coaches wanted it, altho the book was already closed on their time here, W or L. And the players wanted it also, because we were getting a low rd pick anyway, but they didn't care much about that. They wanted the W also. Hence , we won, and lucky Myles gets to play in Cleve. That will sure be a step down from his DAL desires.

I'm having a hell of a time on a couple positions here, in part, b/c of the versatility and experience within our 3-4 and b/c of this new 4-3_under scheme and scheme-fits. This is what our staff needs to work out...the draft will help a ton and we may add some additional depth in FA over the coming months but this is what I have so far in terms of players skill set and matching positions within this new defense. This isn't to imply any of these players would be stellar at their positions, just their best fits IMHO.

Base 4-3_Under:
LDE/5T: DeForest Bucker
NT/1T: Earl Mitchell
RDT/3T: Arik Armstead
RDE/ELEPHANT: Aaron Lynch
SAM: Eli Harold
MIKE: Navarro Bowman
WILL: Malcolm Smith
RCB: Will Redmond
S/CB: K'Waun Williams
LCB: Rashard Robinson
FS: Jimmie Ward
SS: Jaquiski Tartt

Who can play where? Keep in mind, positions like the NT & SAM may be sub'd out for smaller, quicker players on pass rushing downs/assignments.

Player Versatility:
LDE/5T: DeForest Bucker, Chris Jones, Quinton Dial, Arik Armstead, Ronald Blair, Aaron Lynch, Eli Harold, Ahmad Brooks & Tank Carradine
NT/1T: Earl Mitchell, Mike Purcell, DeForest Bucker, Chris Jones, Quinton Dial, Arik Armstead
RDT/3T: Earl Mitchell, Mike Purcell, Arik Armstead, Ronald Blair & DeForest Bucker
RDE/ELEPHANT: No true edge rushers but: Aaron Lynch, Ahmad Brooks, Tank Carradine & Eli Harold
SAM: Aaron Lynch, Ahmad Brooks, Eli Harold, Navarro Bowman, Malcolm Smith & Tank Carradine
MIKE: Navarro Bowman, Malcolm Smith & Ray-Ray Armstrong
WILL: Malcolm Smith & Ray-Ray Armstrong
RCB: Will Redmond, Keith Reaser, Prince Charles Iwora, Rashard Robinson, Dontae Johnson & Jimmie Ward
S/CB: Will Redmond; Keith Reaser, K'Waun Williams & Jimmie Ward
LCB: Will Redmond, Keith Reaser, Prince Charles Iwora, Rashard Robinson, Dontae Johnson & Jimmie Ward
FS: Jimmie Ward, Eric Reid & Dontae Johnson
SS: Jaquiski Tartt & Eric Reid

The strength of Cover3 is the 8 in the box and the three deep shell. Deep down the field, the toughest throw is outside the numbers. I think this lessens the priority for the CB position. They'll still have to play some Cover1 so CBs that can man up will be desired, but what I'm getting at is that the big weakness of Cover3 are the four underneath defenders assigned to cover six zones in the passing game.

I read the discussion that was had about how Carroll used a high pick on his FS (EThomas). And it makes sense because it's an easier throw deep over the middle than it is deep outside the numbers (near sideline). In the passing game, the goal of Cover3 is to make the offense dink and dunk their way down the field. This makes the FS important so that no big plays are made down the middle. What SEA also did was spend high draft capital on their LBs (Wagner 47th, Irvin 15th overall). Those guys have to cover so much ground and minimize RAC when the short passes are completed. The CBs in Cover3 are responsible for the toughest area for the offense to throw to, which makes their importance less than the LBs imo.

^^^ Thanks thl.

This probably highlights the importance of having not only a good pass rush (whether inside or outside) but one that consistently gets to the QB in under 3.5 seconds.

5 tech: Buckner, AA, Dial. Obviously our strongest spot coming off the 3-4
NT: Mitchell, Purcell
3 tech: Blair, Jones. A weak link from the switch to the 4-3. I like Blair as a rotational pass rushing 3.
Leo: I don't see a good Leo on our roster tbh. Lynch will probably get the nod though.
Nickel rushers Lynch, Carradine.
Sam: Spikes, Harold
Will: Smith, Rey Rey
Mike: Bowman, Rey Rey

Originally posted by thl408:
The strength of Cover3 is the 8 in the box and the three deep shell. Deep down the field, the toughest throw is outside the numbers. I think this lessens the priority for the CB position. They'll still have to play some Cover1 so CBs that can man up will be desired, but what I'm getting at is that the big weakness of Cover3 are the four underneath defenders assigned to cover six zones in the passing game.

I read the discussion that was had about how Carroll used a high pick on his FS (EThomas). And it makes sense because it's an easier throw deep over the middle than it is deep outside the numbers (near sideline). In the passing game, the goal of Cover3 is to make the offense dink and dunk their way down the field. This makes the FS important so that no big plays are made down the middle. What SEA also did was spend high draft capital on their LBs (Wagner 47th, Irvin 15th overall). Those guys have to cover so much ground and minimize RAC when the short passes are completed. The CBs in Cover3 are responsible for the toughest area for the offense to throw to, which makes their importance less than the LBs imo.

In Seattle's Cover 3, do they play their corners with an inside shade? Knowing that the most difficult throw is deep and outside toward the sideline, an inside shade would help take away the inside routes while pushing the WRs toward the boundaries and forcing difficult throws. Crab and Boldin had a hell of a time trying to get open as two receivers who like to operate on the middle-underneath routes.

Not sure if you can bank on the cover 3. Both Jax and Atl have had to go more man to man and we saw something similar with the cover 2 where as more teams adopted it the easier it came to scheme against.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

Not sure if you can bank on the cover 3. Both Jax and Atl have had to go more man to man and we saw something similar with the cover 2 where as more teams adopted it the easier it came to scheme against.

Do either of them have Earl Thomas? This may be why they had to switch.

By the way- Hooker says hello.

Originally posted by thl408:

The strength of Cover3 is the 8 in the box and the three deep shell. Deep down the field, the toughest throw is outside the numbers. I think this lessens the priority for the CB position. They'll still have to play some Cover1 so CBs that can man up will be desired, but what I'm getting at is that the big weakness of Cover3 are the four underneath defenders assigned to cover six zones in the passing game.

I read the discussion that was had about how Carroll used a high pick on his FS (EThomas). And it makes sense because it's an easier throw deep over the middle than it is deep outside the numbers (near sideline). In the passing game, the goal of Cover3 is to make the offense dink and dunk their way down the field. This makes the FS important so that no big plays are made down the middle. What SEA also did was spend high draft capital on their LBs (Wagner 47th, Irvin 15th overall). Those guys have to cover so much ground and minimize RAC when the short passes are completed. The CBs in Cover3 are responsible for the toughest area for the offense to throw to, which makes their importance less than the LBs imo.

Ahem. QFT.

Originally posted by SofaKing:

Originally posted by thl408:
The strength of Cover3 is the 8 in the box and the three deep shell. Deep down the field, the toughest throw is outside the numbers. I think this lessens the priority for the CB position. They'll still have to play some Cover1 so CBs that can man up will be desired, but what I'm getting at is that the big weakness of Cover3 are the four underneath defenders assigned to cover six zones in the passing game.

I read the discussion that was had about how Carroll used a high pick on his FS (EThomas). And it makes sense because it's an easier throw deep over the middle than it is deep outside the numbers (near sideline). In the passing game, the goal of Cover3 is to make the offense dink and dunk their way down the field. This makes the FS important so that no big plays are made down the middle. What SEA also did was spend high draft capital on their LBs (Wagner 47th, Irvin 15th overall). Those guys have to cover so much ground and minimize RAC when the short passes are completed. The CBs in Cover3 are responsible for the toughest area for the offense to throw to, which makes their importance less than the LBs imo.

In Seattle's Cover 3, do they play their corners with an inside shade? Knowing that the most difficult throw is deep and outside toward the sideline, an inside shade would help take away the inside routes while pushing the WRs toward the boundaries and forcing difficult throws. Crab and Boldin had a hell of a time trying to get open as two receivers who like to operate on the middle-underneath routes.

I'm not sure, but I would think the shade of alignment depends on the WR split. If the WRs are outside the numbers near the sideline, then inside leverage to use sideline as help defender, stay over the top and feel the WR. If against a reduced split, then outside leverage to funnel towards middle safety. That's my guess.

Originally posted by tjd808185:
Not sure if you can bank on the cover 3. Both Jax and Atl have had to go more man to man and we saw something similar with the cover 2 where as more teams adopted it the easier it came to scheme against.

Yes. This is a big topic for me. The big success of SEA's Cover3 is similar to how the Bucs ran Tampa2. Coaches from that system got poached. The system spread around the NFL. Offenses faced it more often, and more and more ways were found to beat it (Tampa2). I can see the exact same thing happen to SEA's Cover3 fad. But when you think about it, it was the players that made the Bucs Tampa2 so great (Sapp, SRice, Brooks, RBarber, Lynch, etc). Same can be said of SEA's Cover3 and their top talent in 2012-15.

Originally posted by thl408:
I'm not sure, but I would think the shade of alignment depends on the WR split. If the WRs are outside the numbers near the sideline, then inside leverage to use sideline as help defender, stay over the top and feel the WR. If against a reduced split, then outside leverage to funnel towards middle safety. That's my guess.

Makes sense, thanks!