Which current 49ers fit in a 4-3 defense, which don't, and what will it look like

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
It can be confusing where players will line up, depending on the situation. Here are the guys I see being part of the front line: AA, Mitchell, Jones, Buckner, Blair, Dial and I'm hoping Lynch drafts a stout interior DL like Watkins. I really don't see Lynch drafting Solomon...for me, the missing link is alongside Mitchell. Pretty much all the guys I just mentioned can play DE & DT. But Mitchell and Watkins would present a very stout middle of the DL that we need so much. Plenty of candidates to play the LEO/Elephant position...if he's in good shape, Lynch is the obvious choice. But, I wouldn't count out Brooks or Harold. Would love to see Lynch draft Willis, too.

You're reading my mind dude.

PG 14 was one of the longest ever lol. Sheesh.

Originally posted by 49erphan:
Thanks for the compliment; I have plenty to be humble about.

It does seem weird to think of AA lining up more on the right side than the left, but because Buckner strikes me as having noticeably better ability to change direction, move laterally and keep track of the ball, I think it makes more sense for him to play the 5T.

Why do you think Thomas would be better as a 3T rather than a 5T?

Yeah, right now, Buckner came into the NFL more polished and got 1,100 snaps of experience last year. He's more polished against the run which is more translatable to the 5T. Thomas? The man was born to play the 3T. I have no issues with trying him at the 5T but that's a waste of two spots: 1) Buckner or AA should already be ready for that role and 2) the 3T is the pass rushing DT spot which is what this man is; a disruptive force inside that constantly beats OL to the spot causes havoc in the backfield. As a 5T, it means he's on the strong side of the line so often times he's going to be getting bumped around and chipped by RT's, FB's, TE's, extra OL, pulling G's, etc. I like Thomas at the 3T b/c he'd be clean, free and isolated to do what he does best on the weak (exposed) side of the OL.

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:
It can be confusing where players will line up, depending on the situation. Here are the guys I see being part of the front line: AA, Mitchell, Jones, Buckner, Blair, Dial and I'm hoping Lynch drafts a stout interior DL like Watkins. I really don't see Lynch drafting Solomon...for me, the missing link is alongside Mitchell. Pretty much all the guys I just mentioned can play DE & DT. But Mitchell and Watkins would present a very stout middle of the DL that we need so much. Plenty of candidates to play the LEO/Elephant position...if he's in good shape, Lynch is the obvious choice. But, I wouldn't count out Brooks or Harold. Would love to see Lynch draft Willis, too.

Yeah, that's sort of what Seattle does as well...heavier run DT's inside and then rotate 4 other edge rushers. Neither Brooks nor Lynch are true every down edge rushers IMHO but could provide rotational pass rush from the 5T spot to spell Buckner there and at the SAM. In that set, you could have both Lynch as the SAM out at the wide 9 and Brooks inside him. That could be fun. If you want to use the Elephant as more of a hybrid you could have a Lynch at Elephant on base run downs and then add a situational (smaller) edge rusher on passing downs for him.

Originally posted by SteveYoung:
Nice post.

I think Jordan Wills at 34 makes too much sense for our LEO/Elephant. He tested better at the combine than Cliff Avril. He will be a beast IMO.

Yeah baby...he's #2 in my mock!

I don't think Soloman Thomas is the guy for us at 3 tech. I just dont see it. To me he is a 5 tech and would be fantastic there but then what do we do with Buckner and AA? I think a perfect fit at 3 tech Jonathan Allen. If he gets single blocking which he will in this scheme look out. Some say his shoulders are a concern but some say they aren't. To me he is a clone of BY. I think Allen will be an absolute monster and has 10+ sack potential as well as the ability to be a force vs, the run. He is the ideal at 3 tech and one of the best defensive linemen to ever come out of Alabama.

Good luck running on that right side. Brooks and Buckner are ideal at setting the edges and both can offer as pass rushers. Im not so sure how well Earl Mitchell can hold up against a double team but Lynch sure talked him up. I think we get a wide body later on for obvious run downs. Mitchell only played around 30% of the snaps so we should have a rotation there between him, Dial and a rookie IMO.

Ronald Blair, Arik Armstead and Quinton Dial give us some fantastic depth and can start in a pinch if need be. I wouldn't bank on Aaron Lynch or Eli Harold offering much but they can be quality reserves and play a depth role.

SAM- Ahmad Brooks
LDE- DeForest Buckner / Arik Armstead
NT- Earl Mitchell
RDT- Jonathan Allen / Ronald Blair
Elephant- Jordan Willis

That is a downright scary and versatile D-line that can set the tone early on in games. With Allen, Buckner and Willis we have 3 guys with 8-10 sack potential

I disagree on Thomas at the 3T but either way, you can see there could be potential for a lot of toggling of one player between the 5T and 3T which could end up being fun to watch. Allen is another great fit for the 3T. Excellent point. The SAM is wide open for about 5 different combinations.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erphan:

Thanks for the compliment; I have plenty to be humble about.

It does seem weird to think of AA lining up more on the right side than the left, but because Buckner strikes me as having noticeably better ability to change direction, move laterally and keep track of the ball, I think it makes more sense for him to play the 5T.

Why do you think Thomas would be better as a 3T rather than a 5T?

Yeah, right now, Buckner came into the NFL more polished and got 1,100 snaps of experience last year. He's more polished against the run which is more translatable to the 5T. Thomas? The man was born to play the 3T. I have no issues with trying him at the 5T but that's a waste of two spots: 1) Buckner or AA should already be ready for that role and 2) the 3T is the pass rushing DT spot which is what this man is; a disruptive force inside that constantly beats OL to the spot causes havoc in the backfield. As a 5T, it means he's on the strong side of the line so often times he's going to be getting bumped around and chipped by RT's, FB's, TE's, extra OL, pulling G's, etc. I like Thomas at the 3T b/c he'd be clean, free and isolated to do what he does best on the weak (exposed) side of the OL.

Originally posted by CorvaNinerFan:

It can be confusing where players will line up, depending on the situation. Here are the guys I see being part of the front line: AA, Mitchell, Jones, Buckner, Blair, Dial and I'm hoping Lynch drafts a stout interior DL like Watkins. I really don't see Lynch drafting Solomon...for me, the missing link is alongside Mitchell. Pretty much all the guys I just mentioned can play DE & DT. But Mitchell and Watkins would present a very stout middle of the DL that we need so much. Plenty of candidates to play the LEO/Elephant position...if he's in good shape, Lynch is the obvious choice. But, I wouldn't count out Brooks or Harold. Would love to see Lynch draft Willis, too.

Yeah, that's sort of what Seattle does as well...heavier run DT's inside and then rotate 4 other edge rushers. Neither Brooks nor Lynch are true every down edge rushers IMHO but could provide rotational pass rush from the 5T spot to spell Buckner there and at the SAM. In that set, you could have both Lynch as the SAM out at the wide 9 and Brooks inside him. That could be fun. If you want to use the Elephant as more of a hybrid you could have a Lynch at Elephant on base run downs and then add a situational (smaller) edge rusher on passing downs for him.

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Nice post.

I think Jordan Wills at 34 makes too much sense for our LEO/Elephant. He tested better at the combine than Cliff Avril. He will be a beast IMO.

Yeah baby...he's #2 in my mock!

I don't think Soloman Thomas is the guy for us at 3 tech. I just dont see it. To me he is a 5 tech and would be fantastic there but then what do we do with Buckner and AA? I think a perfect fit at 3 tech Jonathan Allen. If he gets single blocking which he will in this scheme look out. Some say his shoulders are a concern but some say they aren't. To me he is a clone of BY. I think Allen will be an absolute monster and has 10+ sack potential as well as the ability to be a force vs, the run. He is the ideal at 3 tech and one of the best defensive linemen to ever come out of Alabama.

Good luck running on that right side. Brooks and Buckner are ideal at setting the edges and both can offer as pass rushers. Im not so sure how well Earl Mitchell can hold up against a double team but Lynch sure talked him up. I think we get a wide body later on for obvious run downs. Mitchell only played around 30% of the snaps so we should have a rotation there between him, Dial and a rookie IMO.

Ronald Blair, Arik Armstead and Quinton Dial give us some fantastic depth and can start in a pinch if need be. I wouldn't bank on Aaron Lynch or Eli Harold offering much but they can be quality reserves and play a depth role.

SAM- Ahmad Brooks
LDE- DeForest Buckner / Arik Armstead
NT- Earl Mitchell
RDT- Jonathan Allen / Ronald Blair
Elephant- Jordan Willis

That is a downright scary and versatile D-line that can set the tone early on in games. With Allen, Buckner and Willis we have 3 guys with 8-10 sack potential

I disagree on Thomas at the 3T but either way, you can see there could be potential for a lot of toggling of one player between the 5T and 3T which could end up being fun to watch. Allen is another great fit for the 3T. Excellent point. The SAM is wide open for about 5 different combinations.

To make y'all both happy.. what about Thomas at at RDE on base then slides to 3T in nickel/dime. LDE on pass downs is what's tricky right now as we're waiting on the draft.

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:
To make y'all both happy.. what about Thomas at at RDE on base then slides to 3T in nickel/dime. LDE on pass downs is what's tricky right now as we're waiting on the draft.

Sure, you can do that...toggle...or keep him at one...keeping in mind the defense will switch from side to side anyhow based on the formation.

I'm curious to know what weight AA,Lynch,Brooks,Harold and Buck have been asked to get down to.

I'm starting to feel better about the consensus being to keep both AA and DeFo...on a talent starved team, you make allowances to not just add good or great players, but to do so and still keep guys who are tough, very good football players...instead of saying , well, AA doesn't fit our scheme so we'll 86 him and send him on down the road. Things now are changing to have the D accomodate to the talent we have, which was my take from the outset. We only get a limited amount of high end players and shedding guys who "don't quite fit our D"....is a loser. To get better ASAP, we have to make accommodations to utilize our current talent. Granted this has to be thot thru, and don't think Lynch, Saleh, haven't been doing this already. But to come out ahead they not only have to draft the guy who fits our talent best ,but also utilizes both AA & DeFo. That has been my position from the gitgo and remains. In the end , trial by fire, aka, "trial and error" will ultimately decide who plays where, and switching positions from play to play will be a part of that.

It sounds like Allen, but we could make it with Thomas if we have to. What a great time to have an eight time DB pro bowler as our GM. He knows the situation, and figuring this out is a lot better with 2 heads...Saleh and lynch...is way better than one. Also, I bet they are committed to taking Allen,/Solomon whichever, and making this work. First think it thru, next make the pick, and last, trial and error. We'll get there.

I wonder if Lynch sees Thomas as a Warren Sapp type.

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

I wonder if Lynch sees Thomas as a Warren Sapp type.

I think when trying to comp Solomon, his weight and abilities should be a factor. Sapp came out at over 300lbs. Thomas is 275. Adding 10 lbs is very common for DL, so let's say his play weight is 285. What DL at 285, has his athleticism, ability to stop the run, and has a really good interior pass rush ?

I like the idea of moving Taart to $ backer as well. That would give us something pretty close to what Jax has with Poz (Bowman), Smith (Taart), and Jack (Smith). Rey Rey becomes an insurance policy for Bowman and Smith can still be used at other lb spots like Jax does with Jack. The Sam will likely be a rotational piece anyways for the time being. You get someone like Bowser or Willis in the 2nd or 3rd and they can be used as the 2nd nickel edge rusher/ in scenarios where you want the Sam to be a 3-4 olb.

Just curious, but wonder how much impact on the decision will be with Saleh? Will his 2 cents make the decision? Ummm...probably not, but he will be the guy who has to use whoever is chosen, so his 2 cents probably counts quite a bit. Having lynch, however, is incredibly helpful, esp since besides helping build this team, he has played the D , 8 time probowl DB and SB winner. Anyone really think his presence isn't going to help make the best decision here?

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Just curious, but wonder how much impact on the decision will be with Saleh? Will his 2 cents make the decision? Ummm...probably not, but he will be the guy who has to use whoever is chosen, so his 2 cents probably counts quite a bit. Having lynch, however, is incredibly helpful, esp since besides helping build this team, he has played the D , 8 time probowl DB and SB winner. Anyone really think his presence isn't going to help make the best decision here?

Good question. I don't know if Saleh is our D.C. for long. I don't know. But I am sold on us running this scheme, regardless if Saleh is running it or not.

I could see us asking him this: "Given these two choices, would you rather have Aaron Donald or Earl Thomas." And maybe his answer impacts the decision?

That sounds about like it Lobo. This isn't looking like your standard simple 4-3 D. This is starting to look like your hunt, pick, choose, try, retry, and then try again.

Still don't know how the hell teams running 3-4s haven't made a trade yet. I'm hoping someone during the draft on day two or three wakes up. Rams need to make a playoff push... I hope we can make a trade with them. Makes sense for both sides IMO.

Brockers,Johnson,Ogletree and Donald gonna have to be paid. Safeties/CBs are questionable. Barron is a question in base downs,Quinn has been injured and has back issues, Barwin is a short term deal.

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Still don't know how the hell teams running 3-4s haven't made a trade yet. I'm hoping someone during the draft on day two or three wakes up. Rams need to make a playoff push... I hope we can make a trade with them. Makes sense for both sides IMO.

Brockers,Johnson,Ogletree and Donald gonna have to be paid. Safeties/CBs are questionable. Barron is a question in base downs,Quinn has been injured and has back issues, Barwin is a short term deal.

Redskins need a 3-4 end. Of course, that would require Dan wanting to deal with Shanny, so, outlook: not so good.