Which current 49ers fit in a 4-3 defense, which don't, and what will it look like

I guess a lot of people missed his rookie year when he graded out to be the best or one of the best pass rushing 3-4 ends in the league. AS A ROOKIE. He was not great against the run but was certainly very very good at applying pressure which might be better in this new defensive system. Last year was not gradable because of that injury however don't give up on this guy yet he displayed enough his rookie year to be considered a pass rushing force.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:

This is completely irrational. Second year player with an injury = throw him away for nothing? It truly is a in instant gratification world now isn't it?

In march he becomes a 3rd year player drafted to help the pass rush with just 4.5 career sacks. Oh and he's the worst run defender of any Dlinemen on this team.

your right....every player who doesn't pan out in a year and a half of healthy play is garbage and a bust....nobody ever needs to develop ever....not a one.

Funny certain posters give Kaep all the excuses for have injuries yet AA gets none. He should have been shut down as soon as the injury occurred. The other thing I see is a lot of people comparing him to Buckner. Which we did not get to see AA this year do to the injury. People seem to forget he was a Jr when drafted Buckner was a sr. So last year was basically there rookie years. Lets just give him a chance he is still young and has shown flashes.

Originally posted by PhillyNiner:
your right....every player who doesn't pan out in a year and a half of healthy play is garbage and a bust....nobody ever needs to develop ever....not a one.

It means he's not guaranteed a starting role like many assume and like the most of the roster is going to have to earn his place.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Because that guy was dominant in college, and from what I saw he has all the tools and talent to be dominant in the NFL. And yes, I give extra benefit of the doubt for 1st rounders until they have duly shown otherwise, especially when their progression and production is stunted by injury.

Now I'm sure you disagree with that, and that's fine. But I refuse to give up on a player who was hurt his one season, and playing hurt the next. Nor will I knock him, for example, for not being good in the run game, when most of his snaps he wasn't asked to set an edge (probably because the coaches knew his shoulder trashed). Now, does he need to fix his technique? Yup! I won't deny that. But really, just how much can a player work on his flaws if he's not even able to work at all ot is limited, or when he is working some of his primary tools are defective. (After all, in order or him to work on his flaws he has to do so during padded, physical practices, not just in film study. And given his injury just how much do you think coaches had him wearing the black jersey in practice?) How much push can you get when your shoulder is barely staying in place? How good can your technique be when your shoulder is barely staying in it's socket? How long in the game do you think it took for opposing, veteran OT's and OG's to figure out he could barely lift his arms above his shoulders? Hell yeah you're gonna be out of position and get pushed around a bit. He's going up against 300+ lbs world class athletes, who likely knows he's playing injured, basically one armed - and even then he showed me flashes of dominance. But under those circumstances how much productivity can we realistically expect for that player?

I'm sorry, but I refuse to label this guy a backup. There's simply not enough good time on the field for me to start that talk. So in my mind, until he shows otherwise while fully healthy, he's among the starting 11, in any scheme.

I think you provided great reasons to give him every opportunity to win a starting spot and to be optimistic. I don't, however, believe we should guarantee him anything or dismiss the possibility of him being outplayed by another player on the roster.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Agree to disagree.

I've been around football my whole life. And the one thing that I've learned is that the best 11 should always be on the field. That's where coaching comes into play. Your football reasons are sound. I was never disputing that. But I'm sorry, there's no way that AA should be coming off the bench, in any scheme. He might not be a 4-3 DE, but he defiantly can play 4-3 DT. He's just too powerful and too talented to be spelling anyone. He will demand a double-team when playing with the proper technique. I concede that he's more of a 3-4 end than 4-3 end. But that don't mean that he couldn't make the transition. And I cannot stress enough how much his injury has stunted his progress and production. IMHO fans are much too willing to give up on the guy, or, like yourself, too quick to relegate him to backup status without a real chance to show his stuff in the system.

This is a big point. He rarely uses proper technique. He doesn't maintain his gap control and he doesn't set the edge very well. He doesn't locate the ball well and he tends to give up on plays. He's also not very productive. This is 49er Arik...ironically it is also Predraft Arik coming out of Oregon.

You do realize he was playing with an injury, right? It's kind of hard to get any push off needed to set any edge when your shoulder is basically coming out of socket. Plus the guy is only going into her 3 season. I think fans are really being criminally unfair with Armstead.

I'm with Chicago and Nc on this one. I think AA will fit nicely as our attacking 3t in our 4-3 under. We all saw how he struggled this year and I like most think it had a lot to do with his shoulder injury. I still have to go back to training camp this past year and quote some of the players who spoke about how he was a monster and he was 10 times better than last year. Guys like Staley are making these comments and he's had to go against some tough DL in his 10 years.

This is from Eric Reid
"Have y'all been watching the kid?" Reid said. "He's killing it. He's focused. He's making plays. When you see him, he's doing what you think he should do based on the way he looks. The kid's a monster."

Armstead has been the 49ers' best player on defense throughout the early portion of training camp and is working with a new mindset entering his second season. It looks like Armstead knows he can overtake anyone given his immense physical tools.

"Yeah, 10 times (a different player). He's amazing," Staley said of Armstead. "He's having a really, really great camp. He's the first guy that jumps out at me on defense."

"He's the first guy that jumps out to me on our defense as far as having a terrific camp this year," Staley said. "Just the speed, the way he's practicing, the tempo and his urgency of practicing has been a lot better. He's real physical. He's getting after everybody."
"It's normal for teammates to praise other teammates, especially during training camp, but for an offensive lineman, especially a 10-year veteran like Staley, to go out of his way to say such things about a defensive lineman isn't exactly common."

http://www.espn.com/blog/san-francisco-49ers/post/_/id/18266/arik-armstead-earning-high-marks-for-training-camp-performance

Those were all pre injury, I think he was really going to make that big jump from his rookie year to his 2nd if it weren't for that injury. Like I said, I think he's going to be a starter and be a huge asset when it comes to rushing the QB.
Lastly, I was listening to Lynch's interview on KNBR today and he said while watching film he doesn't see a 2-14 team. He specifically mentioned that while watching film he thinks our best units are our OL and DL. I think he was referencing Buck and AA.

If AA stays healthy this upcoming season. He'll prove all you doubters and naysayers to be wrong and eat a big plate of crow sh!t. Give the guy a break, he was injured for Christ's sake. It's like expecting a 4 wheel drive to climb a steep hill with just 3 wheels. I remembered before the injury, Staley and the whole OLine was raving about how unblockable AA was and he will break out last season. Unfortunately he got injured and didn't fulfilled those expectations, its not his fault he got hurt, he didn't planned on getting hurt, its football, sh!t and injuries happens all the time. I believe AA and DEFO will be beasts in the new system being aggressive, because they can easily beat their man one-on-one as long as we have a stud like BWilliams or Poe to take the double teams up the middle. Its like having Bennett and Avril on the field for Seattle.

He's not a bust and he's not a monster either.

With better coaching schemes and new leadership he better start producing. NFL doesn't care about potential. When he starts producing consistently, then I'll like him. I disliked that he didn't produce better stats, like Buckner, in college.

I'd start comparing it to Atl's d not Seattle's because you're on crack if you think they're comparing. We're just missing an all world safety, best corner in the league, both of their pass rushers are better, and lacking lb's. Brooks shouldn't be starting anymore, Ray Ray and Navorro can't be relyed on. No biggie.

Originally posted by 808niner4lyphe:

If AA stays healthy this upcoming season. He'll prove all you doubters and naysayers to be wrong and eat a big plate of crow sh!t. Give the guy a break, he was injured for Christ's sake. It's like expecting a 4 wheel drive to climb a steep hill with just 3 wheels. I remembered before the injury, Staley and the whole OLine was raving about how unblockable AA was and he will break out last season. Unfortunately he got injured and didn't fulfilled those expectations, its not his fault he got hurt, he didn't planned on getting hurt, its football, sh!t and injuries happens all the time. I believe AA and DEFO will be beasts in the new system being aggressive, because they can easily beat their man one-on-one as long as we have a stud like BWilliams or Poe to take the double teams up the middle. Its like having Bennett and Avril on the field for Seattle.

I agree that Armstead can slide in at either LDE or RDT next to the nose guard in this new system. With two healthy shoulders and another year under his belt, Armstead will be fine. He's not easily blocked one on one typically and has been especially good when kicked inside.

So that said, Armstead may be a better fit as a penetrator at DT than playin the LE, but I don't think it's out of the question for him to play outside some. He's certainly athletic enough. Michael Bennett at 6-3 274 ran a 5.13 at the combine. Armstead at 6-7 292 ran a 5.10.

Oddly (and sadly) enough, mid-way through the season -- before he aggravated the shoulder injury to the point where it needed surgery -- he led the team in sacks with... 2.

If the 9ers had stayed with a 3-4 defense I think AA would have shown himself to be at least a very solid starting DT. I think there is a very good chance he will turn out to be at least a very good defensive lineman in the 4-3. And it wouldn't surprise me if he turns out to play at or near a pro-bowl level.

Originally posted by 49erphan:
If the 9ers had stayed with a 3-4 defense I think AA would have shown himself to be at least a very solid starting DT. I think there is a very good chance he will turn out to be at least a very good defensive lineman in the 4-3. And it wouldn't surprise me if he turns out to play at or near a pro-bowl level.

I believe Armstead and Buckner will be very scary on a four man line. In the 3/4 they are solid very good players, but when they can be more aggressive and attack? Yikes! The only thing that worries me is their height and tendency to raise up. That is less a problem when you are attacking. I see Blair being more valuable as well. Will be exciting to see these guys grow together.

Originally posted by tjd808185:

I'd start comparing it to Atl's d not Seattle's because you're on crack if you think they're comparing. We're just missing an all world safety, best corner in the league, both of their pass rushers are better, and lacking lb's. Brooks shouldn't be starting anymore, Ray Ray and Navorro can't be relyed on. No biggie.

That's not even close to being true

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by 49erphan:
If the 9ers had stayed with a 3-4 defense I think AA would have shown himself to be at least a very solid starting DT. I think there is a very good chance he will turn out to be at least a very good defensive lineman in the 4-3. And it wouldn't surprise me if he turns out to play at or near a pro-bowl level.

I believe Armstead and Buckner will be very scary on a four man line. In the 3/4 they are solid very good players, but when they can be more aggressive and attack? Yikes! The only thing that worries me is their height and tendency to raise up. That is less a problem when you are attacking. I see Blair being more valuable as well. Will be exciting to see these guys grow together.

Their height is a disadvantage if they are to hold two blockers and keep their place. If they are attacking, I think they will be fine.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by 49erphan:

If the 9ers had stayed with a 3-4 defense I think AA would have shown himself to be at least a very solid starting DT. I think there is a very good chance he will turn out to be at least a very good defensive lineman in the 4-3. And it wouldn't surprise me if he turns out to play at or near a pro-bowl level.

I believe Armstead and Buckner will be very scary on a four man line. In the 3/4 they are solid very good players, but when they can be more aggressive and attack? Yikes! The only thing that worries me is their height and tendency to raise up. That is less a problem when you are attacking. I see Blair being more valuable as well. Will be exciting to see these guys grow together.

Their height is a disadvantage if they are to hold two blockers and keep their place. If they are attacking, I think they will be fine.

Buckner is better at two-gapping and holding up than Armstead at this point, so I think that's why many are projecting him at LDE. Filling that LDT/NT spot is so huge for us as well as getting that premier pass rusher at RDE. Getting those pieces with Buckner at LDE and Armstead attacking from RDT could pay big dividends.