49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:

Originally posted by Joecool:
So, our first 3 2018 picks were of positions we already had starters at. THIS is why we still have so many holes. Instead of filling up 6 spots, we "reloaded" on 3 spots we didn't need to at this time while leaving the original holes.

Let's not even talk about Free Agency and our cap space.

So many holes? Aside from Edge rush and right guard.. what else is there?

And starter doesnt equal quality starters. Brown couldnt run block at all and was unwilling to get to a weight where he could move in space. That shuts down the entire right side on run plays for the offense... the scheme is based on mobile pulling lineman so when one cant move the rest now have a road block to get to their assignments.

Drafting Pettis was controversial, I did like Landry allot but they just paid the franchise so it makes sense to get another versatile weapon. Taylor cant go outside, Bourne still needs to prove consistency, if Goodwin or Garcon go down... the outside WR group becomes an area of need... remember Louis Murphy? Then Warner is a stud at a position of need who will be filling in for and starting next to Foster.

Pass rush is gonna suck this year but at least on paper that is one of the last holes to fill on this roster. This FO is going into year two of rebuilding one of the least talented rosters in football. Getting the glaring weaknesses down to two areas is pretty damn good.

The Pats are getting Brown to run block just fine. They are using him in pulls and everything. Kyle just didn't want to try and work with him. We don't know what we are going to get out of our LG, RG, and RT. We don't have a pass rush. We only have one legit proven Defensive Lineman.

As good as McG, Pettis, and Warner look, those positions were not a dire need. All we did was double park at those positions while we already had solutions there that would have given us a couple years of play.

Our small RB's aren't looking very promising either.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by mojave45:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by mojave45:

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by Bluesbro:

Originally posted by Joecool:

We have been hoping for this for years now. I'll believe it when I see it starting to happen. As of now, it appears nobody knows what to do and how to do it.

Perspective is everything in life. While your posts are concentrating on the positions that still need upgrading, or are question marks, I choose to focus on just STARTING the 2nd year of what was expected to be a lengthy rebuild. From my pov we are so far ahead of where I expected to be this time last year that I can't help but feel great. I get that you were probably just stirring the pot a bit for debates sake, and that is cool (joecool). But a good dose of perspective will make things look very good right about now imo.

I would agree with you if this were 25 or so years ago. In this era, a rebuild can happen in 2 years. If it takes 4 years, then we have problems because our players from 4 years ago will be too old or near the end of their contract and we must decide to reup them on a team where they have not helped get into the playoffs.

Not every rebuild is equal though. And there are different strategies involved as well. Because it CAN happen in two years doesn't mean it will always happen in two years. I always ask everyone that pints that out to bane lbs team that has had to turn over their entire roster in two years and that went anywhere the second year. I am still waiting for a response to that. From anyone.

A surprise rebuild in this era is a one year turnaround because at least one team does that every year. A reasonable complete rebuild is 2 years and at the most 3 years.

Any longer than 3 years in this era is not a good sign because just when you think your drafted players are ready, your veterans or the players you drafted 3 years ago only have one more year on their contract. Now you are looking at going into the 4th year trying to decide who you want to keep while making the playoffs for the first time the previous year. This is a fail.

With free agency and picking high 3 straight years, this roster does not look very promising in the offensive skill positions and in the fronts.

We have what seems to be our QB, but we do not have any freak talent besides Foster and DeFo. That's not a good sign.

Once again I see a post dancing around the question. Which team has ever turned over their entire roster and has been successful in year two? No one ever answers that. Because it's never been done. We were not a typical rebuild. Most of those teams had way more talent than we did.

I have maintained since the hiring of Lynch and Shanahan that we would not see the real 49'ers come out of the ashes until 2019.

And instead of focusing on freak talent look at the entire roster, the drafting and instead of worrying about guts we drafted in year one being gone in four years, look at the model they are setting for future success. Do you think they will quit drafting talent going forward and coaching up rookies?

This isn't a one time, one shot philosophy I am seeing play out, unlike the Rams.

Mojave, i had hoped not and had pinned my hopes on winning it all this yr. But the further we go, the more it looks like you are going to be right. It is just not rational to turn over an entire 53 man team and be a legit competior for the SB. Sad to say. I keep hoping, but we need another yr it looks like

I have never wavered. It has ALWAYS been about 2019. I have never faulted anyone for hoping otherwise, but believing otherwise never seemed realistic to me. What I want is to win and win now. What I also want is long term success. Having watched what they are doing and the moves they have made, what the projected strengths and weakness of the draft for both this year and next and see a road map.

I think they just decided to put off Edge until they felt they could either draft one or deal with a few more FA choices than they had this year. If they had loved one this year I think they would have done it. But grabbing a guy they weren't sure of could have handicapped us getting the guy, nor kind of guy, they are really looking for.

Originally posted by Joecool:

Originally posted by TheRickestRick:

Originally posted by Joecool:

So, our first 3 2018 picks were of positions we already had starters at. THIS is why we still have so many holes. Instead of filling up 6 spots, we "reloaded" on 3 spots we didn't need to at this time while leaving the original holes.

Let's not even talk about Free Agency and our cap space.

So many holes? Aside from Edge rush and right guard.. what else is there?

And starter doesnt equal quality starters. Brown couldnt run block at all and was unwilling to get to a weight where he could move in space. That shuts down the entire right side on run plays for the offense... the scheme is based on mobile pulling lineman so when one cant move the rest now have a road block to get to their assignments.

Drafting Pettis was controversial, I did like Landry allot but they just paid the franchise so it makes sense to get another versatile weapon. Taylor cant go outside, Bourne still needs to prove consistency, if Goodwin or Garcon go down... the outside WR group becomes an area of need... remember Louis Murphy? Then Warner is a stud at a position of need who will be filling in for and starting next to Foster.

Pass rush is gonna suck this year but at least on paper that is one of the last holes to fill on this roster. This FO is going into year two of rebuilding one of the least talented rosters in football. Getting the glaring weaknesses down to two areas is pretty damn good.

The Pats are getting Brown to run block just fine. They are using him in pulls and everything. Kyle just didn't want to try and work with him. We don't know what we are going to get out of our LG, RG, and RT. We don't have a pass rush. We only have one legit proven Defensive Lineman.

As good as McG, Pettis, and Warner look, those positions were not a dire need. All we did was double park at those positions while we already had solutions there that would have given us a couple years of play.

Our small RB's aren't looking very promising either.

The Pats don't run the ZBS like Shanny though, do they? Let's see how Brown looks in week 16 before we declare this a bad move.

Originally posted by Joecool:
See my post 11327. Our first three 2018 picks were not needed. We could have filled a lot of holes with those picks such as RG, Edge Rusher, and a 4 down RB.

You don't give Shanahan credit for knowing what kind of OL he needs? NE gave us JG on a silver platter, perhaps Brown was a trade in kind. A guy Shanahan did not see as a long term solution in his scheme but who could have held down the spot for a year or two...just what BB tends to do in NE.

McG: RT who can move to LT when Staley retires.
Pettis: WR who can slide right into Garcon's spot should his age become an issue...or injuries. Also able to play any spot among WRs. Seems really odd to doubt Shanahan on WRs.
Warner: the niners did not need a LB? Really? Warner is a sideline to sideline type guy who may, along with Foster, become the glue of the D for years to come. They could be the Willis/Bowman of these new niners. LBs who can rush, cover and stay on the field every down.

On the other hand, they could have drafted a guy who might be able to rush the passer. They, the niners brain trust, believed they had players equal to or better than the players available to do that job. I don't presume to know better. Fine that you do, just disagree with you.

Marcus Davenport? Edmunds? Vander Esch?

These guys were better than McG, Pettis and Warner? Time will tell but I see our GM and coaches as selecting building blocks for the future, who may play this year. McG will evidently start. Pettis will play a lot. Warner will likely play quite a bit.

Now...how did Walsh find his great pass rushers? Dean? Traded because he wanted more money than his truck driving brother. Haley? 4th rounder who turned out to be a fantastic edge and a very difficult guy. Luck had something to do with both. Walsh had a relationship with SD that helped him get Dean...just as Shanahan/Lynch have a relationship with Belichick.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Joecool:
See my post 11327. Our first three 2018 picks were not needed. We could have filled a lot of holes with those picks such as RG, Edge Rusher, and a 4 down RB.

You don't give Shanahan credit for knowing what kind of OL he needs? NE gave us JG on a silver platter, perhaps Brown was a trade in kind. A guy Shanahan did not see as a long term solution in his scheme but who could have held down the spot for a year or two...just what BB tends to do in NE.

McG: RT who can move to LT when Staley retires.
Pettis: WR who can slide right into Garcon's spot should his age become an issue...or injuries. Also able to play any spot among WRs. Seems really odd to doubt Shanahan on WRs.
Warner: the niners did not need a LB? Really? Warner is a sideline to sideline type guy who may, along with Foster, become the glue of the D for years to come. They could be the Willis/Bowman of these new niners. LBs who can rush, cover and stay on the field every down.

On the other hand, they could have drafted a guy who might be able to rush the passer. They, the niners brain trust, believed they had players equal to or better than the players available to do that job. I don't presume to know better. Fine that you do, just disagree with you.

Marcus Davenport? Edmunds? Vander Esch?

These guys were better than McG, Pettis and Warner? Time will tell but I see our GM and coaches as selecting building blocks for the future, who may play this year. McG will evidently start. Pettis will play a lot. Warner will likely play quite a bit.

Now...how did Walsh find his great pass rushers? Dean? Traded because he wanted more money than his truck driving brother. Haley? 4th rounder who turned out to be a fantastic edge and a very difficult guy. Luck had something to do with both. Walsh had a relationship with SD that helped him get Dean...just as Shanahan/Lynch have a relationship with Belichick.

I would have drafted McG but put him in at RG while keeping Brown. That would have solidified our OL now and for the future. 2nd rounder would have been edge rusher and 3rd rounder would have been a 4 down back. No wasted money on McKinnon.

Now we have OL, edge rusher and no worries about RB durability. The foundation of Kyle's offense is the run game. We have so many questions of our RB's and our run blocking. My draft above takes care of that and adds an edge rusher.

I think we drafted incorrectly because we double stacked the positions we drafted. You should draft raw talent late in the draft for positions you do not have holes in.

Originally posted by Joecool:
I would have drafted McG but put him in at RG while keeping Brown. That would have solidified our OL now and for the future. 2nd rounder would have been edge rusher and 3rd rounder would have been a 4 down back. No wasted money on McKinnon.

Now we have OL, edge rusher and no worries about RB durability. The foundation of Kyle's offense is the run game. We have so many questions of our RB's and our run blocking. My draft above takes care of that and adds an edge rusher.

I think we drafted incorrectly because we double stacked the positions we drafted. You should draft raw talent late in the draft for positions you do not have holes in.

You would go into the draft locking down positions over players ability? Not sure that's a great draft strategy. Let's see...at #9 I'll take a LB. If there is not LB who will help my team...so what, I'll take him anyway and hope he can become what I need. No, I believe you keep your options open and if you see a great player drop to you, like Pettis, you jump!

Originally posted by Joecool:

The Pats are getting Brown to run block just fine. They are using him in pulls and everything. Kyle just didn't want to try and work with him. We don't know what we are going to get out of our LG, RG, and RT. We don't have a pass rush. We only have one legit proven Defensive Lineman.

As good as McG, Pettis, and Warner look, those positions were not a dire need. All we did was double park at those positions while we already had solutions there that would have given us a couple years of play.

Our small RB's aren't looking very promising either.

I watched Brown closely the first half of the Pat's eagles game. He was not run blocking well at all. He looked like he was still learning his assignments as much as anything else but he looks as slow as you would expect a nearly 400 pound person. I felt bad for him when they ran a screen to his side, it was not good. Eric Crocker straight roasted him on Twitter after the game.

Originally posted by Joecool:
The Pats are getting Brown to run block just fine. They are using him in pulls and everything. Kyle just didn't want to try and work with him. We don't know what we are going to get out of our LG, RG, and RT. We don't have a pass rush. We only have one legit proven Defensive Lineman.

As good as McG, Pettis, and Warner look, those positions were not a dire need. All we did was double park at those positions while we already had solutions there that would have given us a couple years of play.

Our small RB's aren't looking very promising either.

This post deserves a "come on man!"

I dont care what the Patriots are doing with him... we had him and know what he can do. A+ pass blocker but D run blocker, the only run situations he was decent in were straight forward, otherwise the defense just ran around him while he attempted to pull. Examples of this are littered throughout the trent brown thread when he was traded. Then he shows up overweight when he could easily drop some pounds during rehab but didnt and you expect that to inspire confidence in the coaches? Shanahan is one of the last coaches in the league to be okay with handicapping his scheme for a player who isnt showing the expected commitment back.

One legit proven D-lineman? Ugh, no... Thomas started coming on last year, Mitchell is as solid and proven as you can get. Day, Jones, and Taylor have all flashed in preseason... so if we are using other unproven players flashing in preseason as the standard, they are just as legit.

Seems like the grass will always be greener and the draft/preseason bias is gonna keep people from simply acknowledging that the FO knows more than fans and KS knows what he wants in his scheme. The players they got and they players they let go are a direct reflection of them focusing on Kyle's forte.. offense, and where the majority of their investment lies. If they dont address pass rush next offseason then go ahead and chicken little it, but its year 2 with a roster that was remade and has more potential than any we've had since 2012/2013 and is one of the youngest in the league. They remade a roster that could rival the incompetence of the Tim Rattay/Cody Pickett/Ken Dorsey days lol.

Originally posted by Joecool:

The Pats are getting Brown to run block just fine. They are using him in pulls and everything. Kyle just didn't want to try and work with him. We don't know what we are going to get out of our LG, RG, and RT. We don't have a pass rush. We only have one legit proven Defensive Lineman.

The Patriots also don't run an outside zone scheme. They do a ton of gap blocking which Brown is far better suited to do. There is a reason why tackles in this offense average around 305 pounds, not 380.



Why should Kyle compromise his offense for a guy who can't even be bothered to maintain his weight properly?

Anytime Trent Brown gets brought up, I'll post this quote from Kyle: "I said this a ton, but we don't like to give money to people who don't work because when you do that, players see it and you don't want to reward those guys," Shanahan said.

This can be applied to Trent Brown coming to camp with obvious signs that he did not work hard during the offseason. But hey here's a nice contract extension, nope.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by Joecool:
The Pats are getting Brown to run block just fine. They are using him in pulls and everything. Kyle just didn't want to try and work with him. We don't know what we are going to get out of our LG, RG, and RT. We don't have a pass rush. We only have one legit proven Defensive Lineman.

The Patriots also don't run an outside zone scheme. They do a ton of gap blocking which Brown is far better suited to do. There is a reason why tackles in this offense average around 305 pounds, not 380.

Why should Kyle compromise his offense for a guy who can't even be bothered to maintain his weight properly?

I saw the Pats use Brown just fine on a pull outside. I just think Kyle didn't want to deal with Brown's conditioning.

So far, our preseason games have shown that we are going to struggle with what Kyle S. offenses should be strong at: the run game. Preseason has also shown that our defense is going to struggle with what the cover 3 should be good at, edge rusher.

Sad to bring up the truth but preseason has not looked very good so far. Let's see what happens Saturday. And if you want to tell yourself that we are "hiding" our stuff...that hasn't been the case the past 3 or 4 preseasons. Preseason has been a good indicator of what we are and are not good at.

The only part of this team I am not worried about is our QB, WRs, and pass coverage.

Originally posted by thl408:
Anytime Trent Brown gets brought up, I'll post this quote from Kyle: "I said this a ton, but we don't like to give money to people who don't work because when you do that, players see it and you don't want to reward those guys," Shanahan said.

This can be applied to Trent Brown coming to camp with obvious signs that he did not work hard during the offseason. But hey here's a nice contract extension, nope.

Well then why is Joe Williams still on the team?

Originally posted by Joecool:
Well then why is Joe Williams still on the team?

Because he doesn't need a contract extension and has zero trade value.

Originally posted by thl408:
Anytime Trent Brown gets brought up, I'll post this quote from Kyle: "I said this a ton, but we don't like to give money to people who don't work because when you do that, players see it and you don't want to reward those guys," Shanahan said.

This can be applied to Trent Brown coming to camp with obvious signs that he did not work hard during the offseason. But hey here's a nice contract extension, nope.

Exactly and even more frustrating is that he was rehabbing right next to a fellow offensive lineman and first round pick working his butt off to get in shape just to avoid being cut a year after he was drafted. And it was a contract year to top it off... if he cant get in shape for that then he was never gonna be more than one dimensional within this scheme. Seeing that dichotomy on an almost daily basis would piss any coach & FO off. At least they got something for him.

Originally posted by Joecool:
Well then why is Joe Williams still on the team?

Why is this a valid comparison?

Try and trade an IR'd rookie with no NFL film? ... and Williams actually took the year on IR to work... it may not be showing when he is on the field but it doesnt take away from his efforts in the offseason. Because of it he will probably be brought back next year too as a camp body and get one more chance, no real downside since he is gonna be IR'd anyways now.

I still dont understand the Trent Brown BS... all he had to do was stay at a decent weight to become functional in this scheme and get paid. Thats on him alone and forced the niners hand in drafting a replacement of which they drafted the OT with the most potential. Debate on who they should of drafted all you want but Brown was gone the moment he showed back up weighing 380.