49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
Shanahan should hire Jim harbaugh as an Offensive consultant

lol.

Not sure why there is this notion that Kyle wants or needs help. He coached a roster with a lot of bottom tier talent and the most players on IR in the league and guys came out and played hard week in and week out and never stopped fighting, rookies showed continual progress throughout the season. As the talent level catches up, I think all of these comments about Kyle needing help are going to vanish and instead we are going to be worrying about other teams poaching guys like LaFleur, McDaniel, Tarver and Scangarello.

Excellent call Phoenix!

KS made RGIII successful and was instrumental in drafting Cousins.

He coached up a mediocre Hoyer to his best season.

He revitalized a boring Matt Ryan.

He needs ZERO help or consultants in running the offense.

Originally posted by defenderDX:

people forgot sarcasm? though this was NT

I loved me some Harbaugh and I hate the downward spiral his departure did to us. However, at some point he's gonna have to beat a team he has less talent then.

In terms of strictly X's and O's, Harbaugh isn't in the same galaxy as Kyle and he's never been.

Originally posted by Niners816:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
people forgot sarcasm? though this was NT

I loved me some Harbaugh and I hate the downward spiral his departure did to us. However, at some point he's gonna have to beat a team he has less talent then.

In terms of strictly X's and O's, Harbaugh isn't in the same galaxy as Kyle and he's never been.

I agree! I love Harbaugh as a coach, but his offensive philosophy handicaps him in the NFL. A run first philosophy, no matter how sophisticated, just doesn't take advantage of the NFL rules as written. It's highly inefficient compared to the kind of passing offenses *like* Shanahan's WCO. I takes a certain kind of QB to run a pass first offense, and while Kaep was a decent QB (got us to the super bowl) he certainly wasn't the classic WCO QB that can do it. I think Harbaugh can coach and win at the NFL level if his offense evolves. We'll see in the next couple of years at Michigan if that does happen.

Originally posted by Giedi:

I agree! I love Harbaugh as a coach, but his offensive philosophy handicaps him in the NFL. A run first philosophy, no matter how sophisticated, just doesn't take advantage of the NFL rules as written. It's highly inefficient compared to the kind of passing offenses *like* Shanahan's WCO. I takes a certain kind of QB to run a pass first offense, and while Kaep was a decent QB (got us to the super bowl) he certainly wasn't the classic WCO QB that can do it. I think Harbaugh can coach and win at the NFL level if his offense evolves. We'll see in the next couple of years at Michigan if that does happen.

I disagree that it can't work, there are now so many defences that are being developed to combat quick hitter passing offenses that the right run first scheme can still work, Dallas almost nailed it last year.

To be successful it needs a mammoth O-Line, and an excellent play action game. The Titans are the closest, but their O-Line isn't quite good enough and neither are their receivers.

Anyway, I agree that the WCO is a lot more fun and has a higher chance of working due to the rules.

I'd rather have Kyle over Harbaugh, I think his methods are more sustainable, though you can't deny how effective Harbaugh was.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I agree! I love Harbaugh as a coach, but his offensive philosophy handicaps him in the NFL. A run first philosophy, no matter how sophisticated, just doesn't take advantage of the NFL rules as written. It's highly inefficient compared to the kind of passing offenses *like* Shanahan's WCO. I takes a certain kind of QB to run a pass first offense, and while Kaep was a decent QB (got us to the super bowl) he certainly wasn't the classic WCO QB that can do it. I think Harbaugh can coach and win at the NFL level if his offense evolves. We'll see in the next couple of years at Michigan if that does happen.

I disagree that it can't work, there are now so many defences that are being developed to combat quick hitter passing offenses that the right run first scheme can still work, Dallas almost nailed it last year.

To be successful it needs a mammoth O-Line, and an excellent play action game. The Titans are the closest, but their O-Line isn't quite good enough and neither are their receivers.

Anyway, I agree that the WCO is a lot more fun and has a higher chance of working due to the rules.

I'd rather have Kyle over Harbaugh, I think his methods are more sustainable, though you can't deny how effective Harbaugh was.

I agree with you about Harbaugh's offense. Of course it can *work* in the NFL. It just has to have the right pieces. To put it in simple terms, a run attack can work if it's balanced by a good passing attack. He just needs a QB that can make his kind of passing attack work. Now, Harbaugh's passing attack won't be pure WCO, but it will be a *timing* offense. Harbaugh's QB won't be the same as Kyle's QB, that's for sure. Kaep was a strong armed very athletic QB. Jimmy is a very accurate quick release and mobile QB, but not a deep ball thrower like Kaep. But going back again to the rules, I think the WCO has proliferated in the NFL because the NFL *likes* to promote that kind of offense for entertainment and ratings, and so it has written rules that give advantage those offenses. Run first offenses - as you said - won't take advantage of those rules.

Originally posted by 49erBigMac:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I agree! I love Harbaugh as a coach, but his offensive philosophy handicaps him in the NFL. A run first philosophy, no matter how sophisticated, just doesn't take advantage of the NFL rules as written. It's highly inefficient compared to the kind of passing offenses *like* Shanahan's WCO. I takes a certain kind of QB to run a pass first offense, and while Kaep was a decent QB (got us to the super bowl) he certainly wasn't the classic WCO QB that can do it. I think Harbaugh can coach and win at the NFL level if his offense evolves. We'll see in the next couple of years at Michigan if that does happen.

I disagree that it can't work, there are now so many defences that are being developed to combat quick hitter passing offenses that the right run first scheme can still work, Dallas almost nailed it last year.

To be successful it needs a mammoth O-Line, and an excellent play action game. The Titans are the closest, but their O-Line isn't quite good enough and neither are their receivers.

Anyway, I agree that the WCO is a lot more fun and has a higher chance of working due to the rules.

I'd rather have Kyle over Harbaugh, I think his methods are more sustainable, though you can't deny how effective Harbaugh was.

agreed

Originally posted by Giedi:
I agree with you about Harbaugh's offense. Of course it can *work* in the NFL. It just has to have the right pieces. To put it in simple terms, a run attack can work if it's balanced by a good passing attack. He just needs a QB that can make his kind of passing attack work. Now, Harbaugh's passing attack won't be pure WCO, but it will be a *timing* offense. Harbaugh's QB won't be the same as Kyle's QB, that's for sure. Kaep was a strong armed very athletic QB. Jimmy is a very accurate quick release and mobile QB, but not a deep ball thrower like Kaep. But going back again to the rules, I think the WCO has proliferated in the NFL because the NFL *likes* to promote that kind of offense for entertainment and ratings, and so it has written rules that give advantage those offenses. Run first offenses - as you said - won't take advantage of those rules.

also Kap*

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Gemini10:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by jcs:
Jim Caldwell out in Det would make for the perfect Assistant/OC/QB coach for this team to help KS.

You want The guy that is confused every time he's on camera?

I want the guy that helped develop Payton Manning, that made a very avg Joe Flacco into a Superbowl Winning QB....

This. Maybe you can argue he's not HC material but that's not what he'd be here, he'd be fantastic for Jimmy G's development.

Yeah right, develop Manning and Flacco good one

And yet reality says he did....

Tom Moore and Cam Cameron beg to differ

Simply, Manning said Caldwell made him a better quarterback.

In Indianapolis, Caldwell stressed fundamentals, the importance of routine and that everything -- from drills in practice to discussions in Wednesday and Thursday meetings -- had a specific purpose.

"The discipline of having that routine really made an impact on me," Manning said. "I really felt like I just sort of took a step up during the years that he was my quarterbacks coach."

So understand they are intertwined. Even the way they speak -- measured, careful not to give too much away but also adding stories here and there -- is similar.
http://www.espn.com/blog/detroit-lions/post/_/id/19064/together-a-decade-jim-caldwell-and-peyton-manning-had-large-influences-on-each-other

I am sure PM has paid lipservice to multiple coaches in his time, and will continue into he future. EM and PM have had QB coaching since childhood. Its going to be very hard to hang a hat and say this guy...they had their own mechanics coaching in pew-wee.

I would like to see more input from Shanny SR, if anybody. I don't want the offense to take a step backwards, but I would love to see the 49ers find the next Ricky Watters and use him as such.

Originally posted by 4912:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
Shanahan should hire Jim harbaugh as an Offensive consultant

Lol

the way the wind is blowing at michigan. fans there may be receptive to him leaving

Originally posted by Niners816:
I loved me some Harbaugh and I hate the downward spiral his departure did to us. However, at some point he's gonna have to beat a team he has less talent then.

In terms of strictly X's and O's, Harbaugh isn't in the same galaxy as Kyle and he's never been.

i just think after a while the rah rah wears off.. i know i read that during the latter stages of our 8-8 season, people like staley were rolling their eyes,. i am sure he may return to the nfl but i swear his brand has only a short shelf life. where he is at now. the longer he goes without beating mich state and ohio state his shine is starting to wane

Originally posted by cciowa:

i just think after a while the rah rah wears off.. i know i read that during the latter stages of our 8-8 season, people like staley were rolling their eyes,. i am sure he may return to the nfl but i swear his brand has only a short shelf life. where he is at now. the longer he goes without beating mich state and ohio state his shine is starting to wane

It's crazy but there were people that said this about Harbaugh during that first couple of year and it came true in SF and is seemingly coming true at Michigan.

Originally posted by 4912:
It's crazy but there were people that said this about Harbaugh during that first couple of year and it came true in SF and is seemingly coming true at Michigan.

alot of us ignored it cuz we were winning and i for one. refused to believe anything negative at the time i was hearing during that least year. i understand jed and trent were largely to blame but jh was not lilly white. i think the fans where he is now are seeing that. i now he is getting beat up in the press there

Well 3rd years are typically rough for college coaches because you're dealing with your young recruits.

Saban
7-5 MSU
8-5 LSU
10-3 Bama

JH is now in a make or break year for him as he'll be dealing with his experienced recruits.

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by Niners816:

I loved me some Harbaugh and I hate the downward spiral his departure did to us. However, at some point he's gonna have to beat a team he has less talent then.

In terms of strictly X's and O's, Harbaugh isn't in the same galaxy as Kyle and he's never been.

i just think after a while the rah rah wears off.. i know i read that during the latter stages of our 8-8 season, people like staley were rolling their eyes,. i am sure he may return to the nfl but i swear his brand has only a short shelf life. where he is at now. the longer he goes without beating mich state and ohio state his shine is starting to wane

He's now 1-5 vs MSU/OSU and finished 1-5 in our last 6 vs "rival" Seattle. He just finds himself in a place where his teams don't win the rivalry games. He's gotta find a way to fix that if he's really gonna be one of the best coach's.

Honestly the 2 jobs that I thought he'd comeback for are open (Chi & Indy). I just don't see him leaving mich w/o beating OSU.

YARDS PER GAME
Before Garoppolo: 321.7 (21st in NFL)
After Garoppolo: 410.0 (1st in NFL*)
Total: 349.3 (12th in NFL)

NET PASSING PER GAME
Before Garoppolo: 221.8 (17th in NFL)
After Garoppolo: 297.0 (1st in NFL*)
Total: 245.3 (9th in NFL)

THIRD DOWNS
Before Garoppolo: 34.1 percent (26th in NFL)
After Garoppolo: 50.0 percent (1st in NFL*)
Total: 38.9 percent (16th in NFL)

COMPLETION PERCENTAGE
Before Garoppolo: 56.6 percent (31st in NFL)
After Garoppolo: 67.0 percent (3rd in NFL*)
Total: 59.6 percent (25th in NFL)

SACKS ALLOWED
Before Garoppolo: 35 (tied for 6th most in NFL)
After Garoppolo: 8 (27th most in NFL*)
Total: 43 (tied for 11th most in NFL)

TIME OF POSSESSION
Before Garoppolo: 27:36 (31st in NFL)
After Garoppolo: 32:54 (1st in NFL*)
Total: 28:44 (26th in NFL)

POINTS PER GAME
Before Garoppolo: 17.0 (28th in NFL)
After Garoppolo: 28.8 (2nd in NFL*)
Total: 20.9 (20th in NFL)

I posted this in the Kyle stats thread....I updated the portion that I did the other day to include catch distribution with Jimmy's starts.

Originally posted by Niners816:

With Jimmy G as starter.


****2017 - SF HC****
Yards- 410 ypg
Pass- 297 ypg
Rush- 113 ypg
Ratio- 55%pass/45%rush
Td-int ratio- 6-5
Rush td- 6
First downs- 117 (projects to 374 in full year)
PF- 144 (projects to 461 in full year)
Comp%- 67.4%
Yards per pass- 8.4
Yards per rush- 3.7
QB rate- 96.2
Pass attempts in the gun%- 62.9%

Catch distributions
WR1 - 24.6%
FB1 - 14.4
WR2 - 14.4
TE1 - 12.7
HB1 - 8.5
TE2 - 6.8

I wanted to update the with Jimmy G portion with catch distribution. Under Jimmy, Goodwin was getting a % of catches usually seen with a true number 1 WR. Hyde who ended the year as our top catcher was 5th under Jimmy. Juice and Trent Taylor each had the same number of catches and Kittle was the number 1 TE target.