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49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

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49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by BOI49er:
I thought that was your suggestion. No matter. The point is we've seen how to keep it going to multiple SB's, and that's turn your peaked veterans, even super stars, into draft picks while they still have trade value. Bad teams overpay for stars with names. Good teams turn them into fresh opportunities. Kyle Shannahan is the polar opposite. He locks you in, with huge cap hanging over your head whether you continue to overpay for players' declining or injured performance, or you cut or trade them. That's no way to run a railroad long term. But it will get you moaning about your bad luck on injuries. Better to have depth at backup help than to rely on players you can't afford to lose, especially older ones. Fans are always myopic, as the direct replacement for your veterans are usually not the equal to the veteran you trade, but you do hit on a better stream of new stars as you accumulate more draft picks.

I'm optimistic Jed has been burned enough, and is on board. All he has to do is give John his head. I put this on Kyle, and not John. We'll see if I'm right, but John should get first chance to show it, or there will be a house cleaning. Then we lose Kyle too. Yes, Kyle has value, and flaws, as a head coach. We've lately seen other OC's in the league that have value on a par as OC's too, and IMO, that's all Kyle is good at.

Just curious what examples you have of this? Eagles certainly didn't do that unless you think their trade of Reddick was pivotal in their SB win.

Chiefs? Their moves were salary cap related.

Kyle knows his offense. He should be the guy saying who should stay and who should go. Aiyuk has been our best X since TO imo. I believe the reason we signed him was because Kyle was going to use him as he should be used but the holdout and injury derailed that. Now we have no idea how it will go.

Who should've been traded? They traded Buckner, does that not apply? Should they trade Kittle? Warner?
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by BOI49er:
I thought that was your suggestion. No matter. The point is we've seen how to keep it going to multiple SB's, and that's turn your peaked veterans, even super stars, into draft picks while they still have trade value. Bad teams overpay for stars with names. Good teams turn them into fresh opportunities. Kyle Shannahan is the polar opposite. He locks you in, with huge cap hanging over your head whether you continue to overpay for players' declining or injured performance, or you cut or trade them. That's no way to run a railroad long term. But it will get you moaning about your bad luck on injuries. Better to have depth at backup help than to rely on players you can't afford to lose, especially older ones. Fans are always myopic, as the direct replacement for your veterans are usually not the equal to the veteran you trade, but you do hit on a better stream of new stars as you accumulate more draft picks.

I'm optimistic Jed has been burned enough, and is on board. All he has to do is give John his head. I put this on Kyle, and not John. We'll see if I'm right, but John should get first chance to show it, or there will be a house cleaning. Then we lose Kyle too. Yes, Kyle has value, and flaws, as a head coach. We've lately seen other OC's in the league that have value on a par as OC's too, and IMO, that's all Kyle is good at.

Just curious what examples you have of this? Eagles certainly didn't do that unless you think their trade of Reddick was pivotal in their SB win.

Chiefs? Their moves were salary cap related.

Kyle knows his offense. He should be the guy saying who should stay and who should go. Aiyuk has been our best X since TO imo. I believe the reason we signed him was because Kyle was going to use him as he should be used but the holdout and injury derailed that. Now we have no idea how it will go.

Who should've been traded? They traded Buckner, does that not apply? Should they trade Kittle? Warner?

In my life experience, when someone tells you they don't want to be here anymore, to turn them around with money is seldom a lasting or profitable solution. It didn't work with Deebo. I can't tell you it won't with Aiyuk, but that's my bet. Reporters are suggesting we already regret it, and we are already saying we're open to trading him, and it's pretty hard to imagine we 'ain't going to eat it on cap if we do. In any case, is he worth $30m/yr if Brock is only worth $45M? This would be a whole lot easier to lock in a SB quality QB without this hit.

We had a deal with Trent to take care of his family with a new 6 year contract. Three years in, he wants us to "take care of his family", because he's already pocketed his guaranteed money. He's under contract. You Can't Do That. We did. If you don't have a reasonable backup, That's On You. Get One. Who else? Come On. Somebody else, Please hold us up too, because we will not stand up for ourselves. He got injured. Will he retire? Why not. What we've left on his contract might well not be worth it anymore at his age. Do you think this is smart? It is not.

Kyle should be the guy saying who he thinks should go. When he thinks players should stay, Lynch should be the guy who determines whether the cost and future obligation is worth the benefit.

All right. I get it. This is pushing in all your chips to get a Super Bowl, at the known detriment of the future. Might work better if your HC will likewise be smart enough to take the first opportunity to actually Win the Game in OT. But No. If he didn't know the playoff OT rules, is he incompetent? If he did, is he incompetent? Kind of leads you to the same conclusion either way, doesn't it. If he blames it on an imaginary "analytics department", does he earn your respect? The players? If management puts up with this, are they incompetent?

I'm ecstatic. Maybe it's excusable it's taken this long, but we've gotten the first indication that they are not. Needed changes are being made.
Originally posted by BOI49er:
In my life experience, when someone tells you they don't want to be here anymore, to turn them around with money is seldom a lasting or profitable solution. It didn't work with Deebo. I can't tell you it won't with Aiyuk, but that's my bet. Reporters are suggesting we already regret it, and we are already saying we're open to trading him, and it's pretty hard to imagine we 'ain't going to eat it on cap if we do. In any case, is he worth $30m/yr if Brock is only worth $45M? This would be a whole lot easier to lock in a SB quality QB without this hit.

We had a deal with Trent to take care of his family with a new 6 year contract. Three years in, he wants us to "take care of his family", because he's already pocketed his guaranteed money. He's under contract. You Can't Do That. We did. If you don't have a reasonable backup, That's On You. Get One. Who else? Come On. Somebody else, Please hold us up too, because we will not stand up for ourselves. He got injured. Will he retire? Why not. What we've left on his contract might well not be worth it anymore at his age. Do you think this is smart? It is not.

Kyle should be the guy saying who he thinks should go. When he thinks players should stay, Lynch should be the guy who determines whether the cost and future obligation is worth the benefit.

All right. I get it. This is pushing in all your chips to get a Super Bowl, at the known detriment of the future. Might work better if your HC will likewise be smart enough to take the first opportunity to actually Win the Game in OT. But No. If he didn't know the playoff OT rules, is he incompetent? If he did, is he incompetent? Kind of leads you to the same conclusion either way, doesn't it. If he blames it on an imaginary "analytics department", does he earn your respect? The players? If management puts up with this, are they incompetent?

I'm ecstatic. Maybe it's excusable it's taken this long, but we've gotten the first indication that they are not. Needed changes are being made.

All sound logic and I get it. I was pretty frustrated with Trent specifically considering how he had one of his worst games in the SB and I also agree that it was our(team's) fault for giving him the leverage to have that holdout. As soon as we didn't draft an OT in the draft he knew he had us by the balls.

CMC I was pretty disappointed about as well…and really hope the injury didn't show up before the deal was signed. I get it, that position has a short shelf life but it also felt like he was holding us up at gunpoint in a way.

Aiyuk I actually felt deserved that money. He never said a peep when he wasn't getting force fed, never complained about not getting the ball enough and blocked his ass off. I do think the attention in the media got to him and he took it too far but I also think we could've gotten the deal done earlier. Either way this one is all about hindsight. They certainly had a ton of leverage their way after drafting Pearsall, Cowing and extending JJ. Kyle just understood what BA's presence brought to the squad.

It's a fine line of letting guys go when they ask for a trade. It's a new NFL and we have to get used to it. Many players will use social media to say stupid crap during negotiations. They will play stupid games and they will pull the "trade me" game. It doesn't always mean they want to move on. Deebo(the first time) and Aiyuk clearly didn't want to leave. Just a negotiation tactic.
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by BOI49er:
In my life experience, when someone tells you they don't want to be here anymore, to turn them around with money is seldom a lasting or profitable solution. It didn't work with Deebo. I can't tell you it won't with Aiyuk, but that's my bet. Reporters are suggesting we already regret it, and we are already saying we're open to trading him, and it's pretty hard to imagine we 'ain't going to eat it on cap if we do. In any case, is he worth $30m/yr if Brock is only worth $45M? This would be a whole lot easier to lock in a SB quality QB without this hit.

We had a deal with Trent to take care of his family with a new 6 year contract. Three years in, he wants us to "take care of his family", because he's already pocketed his guaranteed money. He's under contract. You Can't Do That. We did. If you don't have a reasonable backup, That's On You. Get One. Who else? Come On. Somebody else, Please hold us up too, because we will not stand up for ourselves. He got injured. Will he retire? Why not. What we've left on his contract might well not be worth it anymore at his age. Do you think this is smart? It is not.

Kyle should be the guy saying who he thinks should go. When he thinks players should stay, Lynch should be the guy who determines whether the cost and future obligation is worth the benefit.

All right. I get it. This is pushing in all your chips to get a Super Bowl, at the known detriment of the future. Might work better if your HC will likewise be smart enough to take the first opportunity to actually Win the Game in OT. But No. If he didn't know the playoff OT rules, is he incompetent? If he did, is he incompetent? Kind of leads you to the same conclusion either way, doesn't it. If he blames it on an imaginary "analytics department", does he earn your respect? The players? If management puts up with this, are they incompetent?

I'm ecstatic. Maybe it's excusable it's taken this long, but we've gotten the first indication that they are not. Needed changes are being made.

All sound logic and I get it. I was pretty frustrated with Trent specifically considering how he had one of his worst games in the SB and I also agree that it was our(team's) fault for giving him the leverage to have that holdout. As soon as we didn't draft an OT in the draft he knew he had us by the balls.

CMC I was pretty disappointed about as well…and really hope the injury didn't show up before the deal was signed. I get it, that position has a short shelf life but it also felt like he was holding us up at gunpoint in a way.

Aiyuk I actually felt deserved that money. He never said a peep when he wasn't getting force fed, never complained about not getting the ball enough and blocked his ass off. I do think the attention in the media got to him and he took it too far but I also think we could've gotten the deal done earlier. Either way this one is all about hindsight. They certainly had a ton of leverage their way after drafting Pearsall, Cowing and extending JJ. Kyle just understood what BA's presence brought to the squad.

It's a fine line of letting guys go when they ask for a trade. It's a new NFL and we have to get used to it. Many players will use social media to say stupid crap during negotiations. They will play stupid games and they will pull the "trade me" game. It doesn't always mean they want to move on. Deebo(the first time) and Aiyuk clearly didn't want to leave. Just a negotiation tactic.

Would you play brinkmanship if you really wanted to stay? I wouldn't. Bosa is as tough a bargainer as there is, and I don't recall him saying he wanted a trade. I don't know how you conclude those two examples "clearly" didn't want to move on. Look, if you play the brinkmanship game, you are surely willing to move on, because you may well be putting that decision out of your control.
Originally posted by BOI49er:
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by BOI49er:
In my life experience, when someone tells you they don't want to be here anymore, to turn them around with money is seldom a lasting or profitable solution. It didn't work with Deebo. I can't tell you it won't with Aiyuk, but that's my bet. Reporters are suggesting we already regret it, and we are already saying we're open to trading him, and it's pretty hard to imagine we 'ain't going to eat it on cap if we do. In any case, is he worth $30m/yr if Brock is only worth $45M? This would be a whole lot easier to lock in a SB quality QB without this hit.

We had a deal with Trent to take care of his family with a new 6 year contract. Three years in, he wants us to "take care of his family", because he's already pocketed his guaranteed money. He's under contract. You Can't Do That. We did. If you don't have a reasonable backup, That's On You. Get One. Who else? Come On. Somebody else, Please hold us up too, because we will not stand up for ourselves. He got injured. Will he retire? Why not. What we've left on his contract might well not be worth it anymore at his age. Do you think this is smart? It is not.

Kyle should be the guy saying who he thinks should go. When he thinks players should stay, Lynch should be the guy who determines whether the cost and future obligation is worth the benefit.

All right. I get it. This is pushing in all your chips to get a Super Bowl, at the known detriment of the future. Might work better if your HC will likewise be smart enough to take the first opportunity to actually Win the Game in OT. But No. If he didn't know the playoff OT rules, is he incompetent? If he did, is he incompetent? Kind of leads you to the same conclusion either way, doesn't it. If he blames it on an imaginary "analytics department", does he earn your respect? The players? If management puts up with this, are they incompetent?

I'm ecstatic. Maybe it's excusable it's taken this long, but we've gotten the first indication that they are not. Needed changes are being made.

All sound logic and I get it. I was pretty frustrated with Trent specifically considering how he had one of his worst games in the SB and I also agree that it was our(team's) fault for giving him the leverage to have that holdout. As soon as we didn't draft an OT in the draft he knew he had us by the balls.

CMC I was pretty disappointed about as well…and really hope the injury didn't show up before the deal was signed. I get it, that position has a short shelf life but it also felt like he was holding us up at gunpoint in a way.

Aiyuk I actually felt deserved that money. He never said a peep when he wasn't getting force fed, never complained about not getting the ball enough and blocked his ass off. I do think the attention in the media got to him and he took it too far but I also think we could've gotten the deal done earlier. Either way this one is all about hindsight. They certainly had a ton of leverage their way after drafting Pearsall, Cowing and extending JJ. Kyle just understood what BA's presence brought to the squad.

It's a fine line of letting guys go when they ask for a trade. It's a new NFL and we have to get used to it. Many players will use social media to say stupid crap during negotiations. They will play stupid games and they will pull the "trade me" game. It doesn't always mean they want to move on. Deebo(the first time) and Aiyuk clearly didn't want to leave. Just a negotiation tactic.

Would you play brinkmanship if you really wanted to stay? I wouldn't. Bosa is as tough a bargainer as there is, and I don't recall him saying he wanted a trade. I don't know how you conclude those two examples "clearly" didn't want to move on. Look, if you play the brinkmanship game, you are surely willing to move on, because you may well be putting that decision out of your control.

I'm just saying it's different strokes for different folks. Not everyone will negotiate the same way.

Bosa also knew he had the team over the barrel for his deal. He didn't have to say a peep just let his agent work and waited til it was almost time to play games that matter and we had 0 depth at the position outside of him.
McVay - Stafford
Kyren Will
Puka/Adams/Higbee/Kupp

Kyle - Purdy
CMC/Gurrendo
3rd n J/Pearsall/Kittle/Aiyuk

Who will be the better offense?

*I added Kupp just cause hes still on the roster and I put Aiyuk for same reason even though I knew hes coming off injury.
Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
McVay - Stafford
Kyren Will
Puka/Adams/Higbee/Kupp

Kyle - Purdy
CMC/Gurrendo
3rd n J/Pearsall/Kittle/Aiyuk

Who will be the better offense?

*I added Kupp just cause hes still on the roster and I put Aiyuk for same reason even though I knew hes coming off injury.

Hard to say right now since as of now Jake Brendel is still our starting Center

Though on paper the Rams offense is more proven and with less questions behind them. Having said that you never know how things shake out but it's also hard for me to say that right now we're the better team.
Originally posted by genus49:
I'm just saying it's different strokes for different folks. Not everyone will negotiate the same way.

Bosa also knew he had the team over the barrel for his deal. He didn't have to say a peep just let his agent work and waited til it was almost time to play games that matter and we had 0 depth at the position outside of him.

Big difference between getting your first big deal and deciding midway through a deal you already signed that your going to holdout and ask for more.

Aiyuk and Bosa it's understandable . CMC and Trent just crap. Especially since both are worse than before.
Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:
Originally posted by genus49:
I'm just saying it's different strokes for different folks. Not everyone will negotiate the same way.

Bosa also knew he had the team over the barrel for his deal. He didn't have to say a peep just let his agent work and waited til it was almost time to play games that matter and we had 0 depth at the position outside of him.

Big difference between getting your first big deal and deciding midway through a deal you already signed that your going to holdout and ask for more.

Aiyuk and Bosa it's understandable . CMC and Trent just crap. Especially since both are worse than before.
CMC wasn't in a middle of a contract with the 49ers, it was Carolina's contract. Even before the season finished in 2023.. CMC deserved some gtd cash

CMC was expected, Trent was the surprise
Originally posted by genus49:
Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
McVay - Stafford
Kyren Will
Puka/Adams/Higbee/Kupp

Kyle - Purdy
CMC/Gurrendo
3rd n J/Pearsall/Kittle/Aiyuk

Who will be the better offense?

*I added Kupp just cause hes still on the roster and I put Aiyuk for same reason even though I knew hes coming off injury.

Hard to say right now since as of now Jake Brendel is still our starting Center

Though on paper the Rams offense is more proven and with less questions behind them. Having said that you never know how things shake out but it's also hard for me to say that right now we're the better team.

Yeah I'm a little iffy myself about our offense going into this season and can't comfortly say that our team is better.
So far it's shedding talent all over the field, dumping high salaries, adding almost nothing. In addition to not attending the combine. Next year could be even worse than this was. An even higher pick is potentially in play. Really hope they don't mess up all these high picks. But their track record is not great on that either. Here comes the cyclical rebuild again.
What the f**k was the point of bringing back Saleh?
No Juice, no Deebo, signing a blocking TE. Its still extremely early but it seems like the offense is being modified.
Originally posted by MucketyMuck:
No Juice, no Deebo, signing a blocking TE. Its still extremely early but it seems like the offense is being modified.

https://x.com/LombardiHimself/status/1899270638579192067
Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:
Originally posted by MucketyMuck:
No Juice, no Deebo, signing a blocking TE. Its still extremely early but it seems like the offense is being modified.

https://x.com/LombardiHimself/status/1899270638579192067
Yeah ty. I wonder what the plava are at WR. Stay put with BA, JJ, and Ricky maybe take someone early...again.
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