49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by ritz126:
honestly i dont even think coaching was the issue

we were able to move the ball pretty well the issue was the interceptions and a lot of tat was bad luck and maybe Brocks worst game of the year. Self scouting that game if we play Ravens again will help but i don't think for 1 second we wereholding anything back but in SB they will be more tailor made plays to attack ravens weaknesses

Agree. Gameplan issue wildly overstated IMO.

Oh you guys don't subscribe to the idiotic take that we threw too much? lol

Defending a pass heavy game plan that resulted in 5 INT's in a two score defeat is what is idiotic. Especially when that defense is way more vulnerable against the run.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Defending a pass heavy game plan that resulted in 5 INT's in a two score defeat is what is idiotic. Especially when that defense is way more vulnerable against the run.

FWIW Brock despite throwing 4 int was averaging 8 yards/attempt against the ravens which would rank top 5 in NFL. The point is we were moving the ball through the air the problem was turnovers. Turnovers typically are due to bad decisions or bad luck we had a bit of both that game. It wasn't like we were averaging 5 or 6 yards/attempt because the ravens shut down the pass game and we refused to run. We were moving the ball through the air fine

Only one more thing left to do.

Originally posted by Sickaa:
Only one more thing left to do.

.... and that's to prove me wrong !!!

LETS GO NINERSSS !!!

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by Sickaa:
Only one more thing left to do.

.... and that's to prove me wrong !!!

LETS GO NINERSSS !!!

It feels like this Is our year.

Originally posted by Sickaa:

Originally posted by 9moon:

Originally posted by Sickaa:
Only one more thing left to do.

.... and that's to prove me wrong !!!

LETS GO NINERSSS !!!

It feels like this Is our year.

This gots to be the year..

Originally posted by ritz126:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Defending a pass heavy game plan that resulted in 5 INT's in a two score defeat is what is idiotic. Especially when that defense is way more vulnerable against the run.

FWIW Brock despite throwing 4 int was averaging 8 yards/attempt against the ravens which would rank top 5 in NFL. The point is we were moving the ball through the air the problem was turnovers. Turnovers typically are due to bad decisions or bad luck we had a bit of both that game. It wasn't like we were averaging 5 or 6 yards/attempt because the ravens shut down the pass game and we refused to run. We were moving the ball through the air fine

True but to his point, we still were playing to their strengths (including generating turnovers) and not their weakness (which also protects the ball more). I certainly see both sides on this one.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
What's odd, I get the mentality of KS wants to pound the rock, he wants WRs to block, we are dead last in pass attempts, so naturally, we don't fare well in a drop back the QB all game to come from behind setting. I think what rubs ppl wrong, is we should be able to maintain the leads, even if we don't overcome them, due to our KS run game taking over and cementing games. That has not happened, at least in the 2 glaring examples. Good year to put the narratives to bed, one way or another.

What are the two glaring examples you're referring to? The Chiefs Super Bowl loss, the Rams NFCCG loss, or the Falcons meltdown vs. the Patriots?

I'll say that those two games with Jimmy Garoppolo at QB, Shanahan called a more conservative 4th quarter due to his issues with ball security. I remember the Cowboys playoff game two seasons ago where we had a small lead, and Jimmy threw an ill-advised pass across his body, outside the pocket, that was intercepted in the third or fourth quarter. Just throw it away, Jimmy. But even still, in the Chiefs loss... Shanahan did call a deep shot that may have been a TD, that Jimmy has been criticized for missing... so it's not as if Shanahan goes complete "Martyball."

With Matt Ryan and the Falcons against the Patriots, I forget how the second half went offensively, but I do remember that Shanahan aggressively dialed up a play that could've been a TD.... but the Falcons took a sack and were knocked out of field goal range.

His aggression/conservatism will depend on who the QB is. With Brock Purdy, I see Shanahan aggressively putting games away in the fourth quarter this year. It's why all of our games (except the Rams game), we've won by at least two scores. We have a lead, and then Shanahan trusts Purdy to throwing in the fourth quarter and finishing it.

As far as running the ball in a four-minute offense, you'd think that we could just run the ball and get first downs and ice the game. But I dunno, good defenses in the playoffs will find a way to get the stop. I think that's why QB play in January/February is so crucial, because you need to trust your QB to make a key first down, without turning the ball over (or getting an incompletion that stops the clock).

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:
Oh you guys don't subscribe to the idiotic take that we threw too much? lol

It's funny... I've seen some people with the take that Shanahan should've protected his young QB against the elite Ravens defense by running the ball more. But I'm like... Purdy's playing at an MVP level and is leading the NFL in most major QB categories. Throwing the ball is our strength.

But on the flip side... I think there was a point in the game where Purdy was just flustered, and maybe could have benefited from playcalls that were "safe" and could've helped him get some confidence going. Even then, I hesitate to say that, because one of the interceptions came on a tipped screen pass... which would've been a "safe" play. Was definitely a tough loss, but I think Purdy/Shanahan will grow from it together.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Personally, just my take on Kyle's Achillies heel on this offense.

First of all he's really a genius on the offensive side. That's really important for my point to be understood. Secondly his scheme is brilliant. It starts with his zone run. It's an outside run, very similar in concept to Bill Walsh's green bay sweeps, but instead of pulling the OLinemen, he's executing the zone blocking concepts which share *a lot* of the run blocking concepts with the pass protection concepts. I.e. passing the DLinemen to the other guy if you don't have a good blocking angle etc... that's good for the zone run *and* pass blocking too (with regards to stunts and blitzes etc...) The zone run and the naked boot play-action pass *LOOK* the same and so it's hard for linebackers to tell if it's a run or pass, and so his scheme targets them and makes them hesitate - that's why the WR's are so open. It's a VERY explosive offense when it's clicking.

Here's the problem, the zone run requires smaller, athletic, but less powerful offensive linemen. They are cheaper draftwise and capwise, but they can't power a gap blocking north-south run scheme which is what you need in a four minute offense. I.e. his offensive line is too small to power a ground and pound run offense consistently and have to run outside and pretty much stop the clock when the RB steps out of bounds when you are trying to bleed the clock down.

Also, because the offensive line is smaller, longer pass plays aren't able to be consistently executed because the smaller OLinemen can't sustain their pass blocking for a longer period of time that is needed for longer pass plays to develop.

TLDR: Kyle's offense is explosive, but doesn't have the power to generate a clock killing four minute offense in a close game, nor generate a come from behind win because the offensive line is too small.

Great post Giedi, thanks!

Do you think the Eagles OL can run Kyle's scheme while also being powerful for gap runs?

I'm curious if we can slowly upgrade the OL to be truly dominant or if we're capped price wise.

Originally posted by JTsBiggestFan:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Personally, just my take on Kyle's Achillies heel on this offense.

First of all he's really a genius on the offensive side. That's really important for my point to be understood. Secondly his scheme is brilliant. It starts with his zone run. It's an outside run, very similar in concept to Bill Walsh's green bay sweeps, but instead of pulling the OLinemen, he's executing the zone blocking concepts which share *a lot* of the run blocking concepts with the pass protection concepts. I.e. passing the DLinemen to the other guy if you don't have a good blocking angle etc... that's good for the zone run *and* pass blocking too (with regards to stunts and blitzes etc...) The zone run and the naked boot play-action pass *LOOK* the same and so it's hard for linebackers to tell if it's a run or pass, and so his scheme targets them and makes them hesitate - that's why the WR's are so open. It's a VERY explosive offense when it's clicking.

Here's the problem, the zone run requires smaller, athletic, but less powerful offensive linemen. They are cheaper draftwise and capwise, but they can't power a gap blocking north-south run scheme which is what you need in a four minute offense. I.e. his offensive line is too small to power a ground and pound run offense consistently and have to run outside and pretty much stop the clock when the RB steps out of bounds when you are trying to bleed the clock down.

Also, because the offensive line is smaller, longer pass plays aren't able to be consistently executed because the smaller OLinemen can't sustain their pass blocking for a longer period of time that is needed for longer pass plays to develop.

TLDR: Kyle's offense is explosive, but doesn't have the power to generate a clock killing four minute offense in a close game, nor generate a come from behind win because the offensive line is too small.

Great post Giedi, thanks!

Do you think the Eagles OL can run Kyle's scheme while also being powerful for gap runs?

I'm curious if we can slowly upgrade the OL to be truly dominant or if we're capped price wise.

If Shanahan had the Eagles' offensive line, I have no doubt in my mind that he could do wondrous things. He could probably afford for longer-developing pass plays, and field an even more diverse run game. Kittle and Juice could have even greater involvement in the pass game if they had more confidence that RG and RT could hold up.

But frankly, I don't think it'll ever happen, or we have to really do a good job of drafting. I feel like the team would rather prioritize drafting other positions high, than to try and maneuver into the first half of the first round to get the elite offensive linemen that are athletic specimens that have perfect blends of power and speed.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by ritz126:
honestly i dont even think coaching was the issue

we were able to move the ball pretty well the issue was the interceptions and a lot of tat was bad luck and maybe Brocks worst game of the year. Self scouting that game if we play Ravens again will help but i don't think for 1 second we wereholding anything back but in SB they will be more tailor made plays to attack ravens weaknesses

Agree. Gameplan issue wildly overstated IMO.

Oh you guys don't subscribe to the idiotic take that we threw too much? lol

Defending a pass heavy game plan that resulted in 5 INT's in a two score defeat is what is idiotic. Especially when that defense is way more vulnerable against the run.

lol pass heavy, we moved the ball at will and some of our runs also got stuffed behind the LOS. purdy screwed up, he shoulda played better

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by ritz126:
honestly i dont even think coaching was the issue

we were able to move the ball pretty well the issue was the interceptions and a lot of tat was bad luck and maybe Brocks worst game of the year. Self scouting that game if we play Ravens again will help but i don't think for 1 second we wereholding anything back but in SB they will be more tailor made plays to attack ravens weaknesses

Agree. Gameplan issue wildly overstated IMO.

Oh you guys don't subscribe to the idiotic take that we threw too much? lol

Defending a pass heavy game plan that resulted in 5 INT's in a two score defeat is what is idiotic. Especially when that defense is way more vulnerable against the run.

lol pass heavy, we moved the ball at will and some of our runs also got stuffed behind the LOS. purdy screwed up, he shoulda played better

I got a hint of a little Paul crewe'esk vibes at the game

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by DonnieDarko:

Originally posted by SmokeyJoe:

Originally posted by ritz126:
honestly i dont even think coaching was the issue

we were able to move the ball pretty well the issue was the interceptions and a lot of tat was bad luck and maybe Brocks worst game of the year. Self scouting that game if we play Ravens again will help but i don't think for 1 second we wereholding anything back but in SB they will be more tailor made plays to attack ravens weaknesses

Agree. Gameplan issue wildly overstated IMO.

Oh you guys don't subscribe to the idiotic take that we threw too much? lol

Defending a pass heavy game plan that resulted in 5 INT's in a two score defeat is what is idiotic. Especially when that defense is way more vulnerable against the run.

lol pass heavy, we moved the ball at will and some of our runs also got stuffed behind the LOS. purdy screwed up, he shoulda played better

Purdy made one bad read and that was the first INT. The rest of the turnovers came from contested passes which is a strength of the ravens defense. Yea We moved the ball at will... until we turned it over 5 times. 3 of Brock's 4 INT's came on 1st down. You run the ball 30+ times and you limit the opportunity for those contested passes. Therefor limiting the turnovers. If we see them in the SB, I expect a heavy dose of CMC and a heavy dose of misdirection.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Purdy made one bad read and that was the first INT. The rest of the turnovers came from contested passes which is a strength of the ravens defense. Yea We moved the ball at will... until we turned it over 5 times. 3 of Brock's 4 INT's came on 1st down. You run the ball 30+ times and you limit the opportunity for those contested passes. Therefor limiting the turnovers. If we see them in the SB, I expect a heavy dose of CMC and a heavy dose of misdirection.

Brock had execution issues and a share of responsibility on 3 of 4 of those interceptions. If he plays a better game, and one that we've consistently seen from him for a season and a half now, we also limit those turnovers. He had a bad game. It was unexpected and it happens.