49ers Head Coach Kyle Shanahan Thread

Originally posted by BoldRedandGold:

Originally posted by random49er:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

A player that clearly has no clue about who Kyle's primary read was. Sleeps during team meetings.

Being open on the side opposite the blitz means nothing...

Theres almost always a guy open every play somewhere. For pretty much every team. It's pretty rare to get a look at every player down field.

It's not Madden. He doesn't get a bird's eye view.

Lol he's not on the opposite side though and the play has been ran before and completing it to Wilson

Originally posted by OhioNiner:
Pretty sure someone posted recently in here that Andy Reid has admitted that he had to basically reinvent himself a little bit. Which would be part of the natural process of a guy who's been a head coach for over 20 years in this league and had his share of "almost's" in Philly vs a guy who started coaching (head coach) 5 years ago.

But if you want to believe it's all about Mahomes, you go right ahead. Mahomes helps but Donovan McNabb was a pretty good QB in that era and a guy who had more physical talent than say Jimmy or Alex Smith.

Oh I'm sure he did reinvent himself to some degree. It's not ALL Mahomes. But having a guy who's gonna be an all time great makes things look even better.

Pretty good listen to someone who watched a lot more game film a lot longer than most guys

https://omny.fm/shows/tolbert-copes-podcast/10-25-greg-cosell-joins-tolbert-copes-to-breakdown

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Pretty good listen to someone who watched a lot more game film a lot longer than most guys

https://omny.fm/shows/tolbert-copes-podcast/10-25-greg-cosell-joins-tolbert-copes-to-breakdown

Ncommand will get triggered when he hears Cosell say quarterbacks can help their O line.

Hey All, if we say Mahomes played better than Jimmy are we Chief fans now?

Originally posted by OhioNiner:
Now I will say, this that NCommand highlighted in the Warner breakdown thread is a concern, and actually a bigger one than "our QB is bad."

Kurt Warner had difficulty even recognizing the designs and concepts of a number of these plays. I know 816 did as well yesterday. This is super concerning, not just because of the design/concepts called by Kyle but because the receivers don't seem to know either or aren't executing their part to where it's even recognizable. Kyle and these receiver coaches...something is way off here.

"It's just kind of a hodgepodge of stuff every week. ~ Kurt Warner

Don't get me wrong. There are times and plays in which Jimmy is absolutely a problem or messes up on what could have been a good play or takes a busted play and makes it worse.

But, and admittedly it's one outsider's observation and evaluation, but it is a concern.

Regarding Kyle, you can be the biggest genius in the room. But if you're the head coach and you can't take what you know or what you design and teach it to guys to where they can implement it seamlessly and it becomes second nature to them then you're not doing good enough and that's a weakness in you. Which doesn't mean there won't be mistakes and breakdowns in execution. Players are human and the guys across from them are typically pretty good. But if you have someone very bright evaluating film and saying "It's evident what they were trying to do but Jimmy messed it up... or McGlinchey did... or even Trent... or a receiver had a brain fart"- that's one thing. But when you basically get, "I can't figure out what they were trying to do to begin with" that is indeed a concern.

The play that he was referring to looked like a poor playcall because of where it was called on the field. It looked like some flood concept where you had 3 receivers running left at different levels. This play was called in the redzone where the field is more condensed. So all the routes looked very compressed and crowded. One thing that is not being considered in the video is whether all the receivers were running the correct routes. You cannot say for 100% certainty just by watching the film. Kurt Warner is not in those meetings and is making some assumptions.

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
The issues KW noted extend much further than getting your Madden QB. That's the real take-away. Right now, this isn't a "QB friendly" system and we're definitely not seeing "genius" on any level here. Quite the opposite.

There are systemic issues here from Kyle to his position coaches, lost coaches, to non-game script plays, to details to lack of accountability to design/concept issues, etc. That's the take-away...not Bad Jimmy...even though those issues were presented too (that's still all you saw/got from it). LOL. Some of these are so bad, a HOF QB can't every recognize the play or concept; goal of the play.

The reason this is so important is because these issues will persists far beyond Jimmy if these aren't fixed. Right to Trey.

This is what he covered. The bold is what you got out of it:
Good Jimmy (Big Plays even on Breakdowns or Poor Designs, Take the Sack, Throw away)
Bad Jimmy (Layups, Mentals)
Off Schedule (Making it up)
Design
Route Concepts
Poor Redzone Concepts
Details
Receivers Routes
Receivers Details
No Outlets (No Hot Options)
Positive Hot Options
Poor Pressure Answers
No Availables
OL Slide Protections

The bold isn't what I got out of it. The bold is the biggest issue. Back to the blame pie scenario. You are making the case that not having a hot route on the front side is a bigger issue than the QB misreading the freaking pre snap from the jump. That's just flat out wrong.

All the details in the world don't matter if the QB is misreading the coverage. Random is right about you focusing on what the primary read is to excuse this fact.

So if we switched coaches last Sunday do the 49ers win?

You ought to listen to Tolbert and Cosell talking about fans blaming coaching.

I've been trying to tell you...you're WAY too singular on the QB in Kyle's run centric offense.

Which is incredibly ironic given that despite all the drops and all the penalties that negated big plays, all the non-QB friendly routes, all the fails after the play script expires, all the issues KW highlighted that compound our offense, we're still 9th in passing and were 26th in rushing coming into last week. You don't think Kyle has some responsibility there? That's Jimmy's fault too? LOL

Nobody is saying that. LOL. He's trying to teach you how one single design change can help the QB and make it more "QB friendly." Really dude?

Just like you said, you had no worries about the Seahawks because you can't see anything past the QB in Geno Smith. I said they're a real threat because you KNOW Pete Carroll is going to get the max out of a less talented team. No matter how much you focus on Jimmy Garoppolo, you can't say the same about Kyle Shanahan and there's a grocery long list noted above that all starts and ends with him as a HC. And we haven't even touched ST, the defense, or his issues as just the Head Coach.

As to the primary, we still have no confirmed evidence how much control a QB has in this system to just switch primaries other than Aaron Rodgers was in contention with Mike LaFleur over it. You don't know if we have an audible alert to a specific player change, how much he can change the plays, motions, he just picks between two plays, how he's coached up within them, etc.

You, like most fans, just assume the QB is his own OC out there with total freedom. I'm simply saying WE DON'T KNOW. So we probably shouldn't assume (I do it too like on the Texas route FTW...Kingsbury called it a great play call; not audible to a hot/adjustment by the QB).

If we had Andy Reid last week? Oh hell yeah! Unless we had given up 42 points, of course.

Otherwise, in a normal game average, no question. Andy and his staff exploited and attacked every single one of our weaknesses and the QB behind the best OL in football, barely broke a sweat moving. That's QB friendly.

Kyle does not attack like that. He attacks zones. Not personnel. And so far he can't do well with in-game play calling, 4 minute drills and 2nd half adjustments like last year with Mike McDaniel. If he has a week to prepare, he can script well. After that, it takes real-time vision of what's going on and adjustment counters.

I am surprised Kyle has even had a winning season as a HC, let alone coached in a SB and two NFCCG's with that super long laundry list of issues KW pointed out. He must be the luckiest MFer in the entire NFL.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Remember Kyle doesn't know play calling and sucks when scripted plays are done

ps all these plays were after the scripted.. QB is the real issue

pic.twitter.com/X8o04uFtNL

— Steph Sanchez (@Steph49K) October 25, 2022

LOL. Another play KW covered for you here.

The sad thing is Jimmy is all you see. What KW covered far extended JG while also recognizing his issues too. It was comprehensive of the entire passing game.

It would be one thing if you tried to learn from the resources provided to you but you ignore them all so you continue with your singular thought process.

At this point it's just kind of 😥...can't even have a debate with you anymore. But to each his own. You be you.

What's sad is you need someone else to tell you these things. Not once have you said anything on your own

its always well this guy said or that guy said, you can't have your own opinion and that's where you look foolish on everything now days

i don't need KW to tell me jimmy screwed up a good pocket, moved up and without knowing kittles route was going to be in the middle or hesitated too long to make the throw.. just to take a sack

another past scripted play debunked with another wide open option. This is fun

LOL. I brought up the concern about the hot routes two weeks ago. I referenced BA in the slot and a blitzer right next to him. BA did not break off his route and just ran his normal route. This is exactly what KW was talking about.

Yet another thing you didn't read...the "scripted plays vs. Non" was just posted in here. As usual, you ignore it and are still stating your singular focus.

Like I said, you're either trolling right now or just choose to be singular focused. Either way, it's not making for any meaningful debates.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I am surprised Kyle has even had a winning season as a HC, let alone coached in a SB and two NFCCG's with that super long laundry list of issues KW pointed out. He must be the luckiest MFer in the entire NFL.

When you lose your entire coaching staff and his BFF in Mike McDaniel of 14 years, this is the end result. It was far more efficient in the past even with some persistent issues overall including Jimmy.

One thing Warner mentioned on some of these open RB checkdowns is if a guy is hot as a rusher.. meaning no blocker assigned.. you have to throw to that side and keep the eyes there. On the All-22 we may see that the checkdown away from the hot rusher is open, yet as a QB if you turn away from the free rusher you are taking a gamble the guy is open.. if he is covered you now have nowhere to throw the ball and the free rusher that you now cannot see is about to annihilate you. You always keep the free rusher in view and throw to the side he vacates. He gives a good example of a play where the play design makes this impossible.. the routes just take forever and a day... with no route adjustment during blitz.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
One thing Warner mentioned on some of these open RB checkdowns is if a guy is hot as a rusher.. meaning no blocker assigned.. you have to throw to that side and keep the eyes there. On the All-22 we may see that the checkdown away from the hot rusher is open, yet as a QB if you turn away from the free rusher you are taking a gamble the guy is open.. if he is covered you now have nowhere to throw the ball and the free rusher that you now cannot see is about to annihilate you. You always keep the free rusher in view and throw to the side he vacates. He gives a good example of a play where the play design makes this impossible.. the routes just take forever and a day... with no route adjustment during blitz.

I've been trying for 2 days to drive that KW point home for 9ers4eva to no avail. LOL

Maybe you'll have better luck. Another reason you pass to the blitz side is they are vacating their area and there should be less defenders there in coverage too (in theory).

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
One thing Warner mentioned on some of these open RB checkdowns is if a guy is hot as a rusher.. meaning no blocker assigned.. you have to throw to that side and keep the eyes there. On the All-22 we may see that the checkdown away from the hot rusher is open, yet as a QB if you turn away from the free rusher you are taking a gamble the guy is open.. if he is covered you now have nowhere to throw the ball and the free rusher that you now cannot see is about to annihilate you. You always keep the free rusher in view and throw to the side he vacates. He gives a good example of a play where the play design makes this impossible.. the routes just take forever and a day... with no route adjustment during blitz.

I've been trying for 2 days to drive that KW point home for 9ers4eva to no avail. LOL

Maybe you'll have better luck. Another reason you pass to the blitz side is they are vacating their area and there should be less defenders there in coverage too (in theory).

Some of these I think of what TB12 would do.. he would spike the ball at the feet of these half baked routes.. he'd then be barking at ppl about why he has to have plays with a hot rusher and nowhere to throw.. and the offense or that play would change / improve. That would be next level quarterbacking.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
One thing Warner mentioned on some of these open RB checkdowns is if a guy is hot as a rusher.. meaning no blocker assigned.. you have to throw to that side and keep the eyes there. On the All-22 we may see that the checkdown away from the hot rusher is open, yet as a QB if you turn away from the free rusher you are taking a gamble the guy is open.. if he is covered you now have nowhere to throw the ball and the free rusher that you now cannot see is about to annihilate you. You always keep the free rusher in view and throw to the side he vacates. He gives a good example of a play where the play design makes this impossible.. the routes just take forever and a day... with no route adjustment during blitz.

I've been trying for 2 days to drive that KW point home for 9ers4eva to no avail. LOL

Maybe you'll have better luck. Another reason you pass to the blitz side is they are vacating their area and there should be less defenders there in coverage too (in theory).

Some of these I think of what TB12 would do.. he would spike the ball at the feet of these half baked routes.. he'd then be barking at ppl about why he has to have plays with a hot rusher and nowhere to throw.. and the offense or that play would change / improve. That would be next level quarterbacking.

just like what Brady does or what AA ron does.. heck Just looks what BDN does.. some times a QB can just move/step away in the pocket

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
https://www.nfl.com/videos/mullens-beats-seahawks-blitz-with-last-second-pass-to-pettis-for-26-yards-292863

Heres a play where Warners criticism would be valid. Yet Nick is able to get his eyes from front to back, buy time and make a throw against a zero blitz. Guess he didn't get the memo to stay on the primary no matter what.

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
One thing Warner mentioned on some of these open RB checkdowns is if a guy is hot as a rusher.. meaning no blocker assigned.. you have to throw to that side and keep the eyes there. On the All-22 we may see that the checkdown away from the hot rusher is open, yet as a QB if you turn away from the free rusher you are taking a gamble the guy is open.. if he is covered you now have nowhere to throw the ball and the free rusher that you now cannot see is about to annihilate you. You always keep the free rusher in view and throw to the side he vacates. He gives a good example of a play where the play design makes this impossible.. the routes just take forever and a day... with no route adjustment during blitz.

I've been trying for 2 days to drive that KW point home for 9ers4eva to no avail. LOL

Maybe you'll have better luck. Another reason you pass to the blitz side is they are vacating their area and there should be less defenders there in coverage too (in theory).

Some of these I think of what TB12 would do.. he would spike the ball at the feet of these half baked routes.. he'd then be barking at ppl about why he has to have plays with a hot rusher and nowhere to throw.. and the offense or that play would change / improve. That would be next level quarterbacking.

Even the subtleties of routes pointed out, there isn't an emphasis on the key details and like you noted, Jimmy isn't the leader to be calling dudes out on the field and sidelines. Our dudes drop bombs or get sacked and it's just no big deal. Next play.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 49erFaithful6:
One thing Warner mentioned on some of these open RB checkdowns is if a guy is hot as a rusher.. meaning no blocker assigned.. you have to throw to that side and keep the eyes there. On the All-22 we may see that the checkdown away from the hot rusher is open, yet as a QB if you turn away from the free rusher you are taking a gamble the guy is open.. if he is covered you now have nowhere to throw the ball and the free rusher that you now cannot see is about to annihilate you. You always keep the free rusher in view and throw to the side he vacates. He gives a good example of a play where the play design makes this impossible.. the routes just take forever and a day... with no route adjustment during blitz.

I've been trying for 2 days to drive that KW point home for 9ers4eva to no avail. LOL

Maybe you'll have better luck. Another reason you pass to the blitz side is they are vacating their area and there should be less defenders there in coverage too (in theory).

Some of these I think of what TB12 would do.. he would spike the ball at the feet of these half baked routes.. he'd then be barking at ppl about why he has to have plays with a hot rusher and nowhere to throw.. and the offense or that play would change / improve. That would be next level quarterbacking.

just like what Brady does or what AA ron does.. heck Just looks what BDN does.. some times a QB can just move/step away in the pocket

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
https://www.nfl.com/videos/mullens-beats-seahawks-blitz-with-last-second-pass-to-pettis-for-26-yards-292863

Heres a play where Warners criticism would be valid. Yet Nick is able to get his eyes from front to back, buy time and make a throw against a zero blitz. Guess he didn't get the memo to stay on the primary no matter what.

Nobody is saying you need to stay with your primary no matter what. We're saying with a zero blitz, you have to make a pre snap choice. Kittle 1on1 with outside leverage is a great choice and it's how Kyle designed it. There's nothing wrong with that decision.

Execution, on the other hand, not so much.

You two are twisting things here.