2017 Team Information (Needs)

Originally posted by Giedi:

I agree with almost everything you posted, I'd just add and modify one or two things. I'd like to get better players, sure, but I'd also be open to getting *younger* players - even if they aren't quite as good as the players we have already on the team. I agree, we need to plug in a free agent to replace Reuben's snaps this next year as I'm pretty sure he'll be unavailable for a good chunk of 2019 or the 2020 season (if he appeals). Now I don't think you need to go with a highly paid free agent to replace Reuben. I think - if you can't find that good all around free agent LB - then you go with a good run defender LB and a good pass defender LB (both probably below average LB's overall) and you can do situation substitution defense with those two LB's. Also, as much as I'd like a free agent corner, I'd rather prioritize the O Line in this years free agency. If you can save a draft pick because you got a decent O Lineman, you can devote that to a young corner in the draft. As for LEO, aside from Ziggy and Demarcus, there aren't any sure fire edge rushers out there (so says the draft nerds) so you go with youth and potential and draft one in the draft and let it all shake out in training camp and preseason.

Agreed on Rueben. Getting a SAM like Williamson (who can add a little edge rush) would be a big upgrade over Eli Harold and he's only 26. He's also played inside in a 3-4 so he could play MIKE once fully versed if needed. Then you can go A.Williamson - M.Smith - R.Foster or if Rueben is out, E.Harold - A.Williamson - M.Smith.

Also, being him means you don't have to take R.Smith or T.Edmunds in the draft.

I took a flier on a young, high upside LEO who's career has been marred by injuries. If healthy, look out. If not, he's cheap. But no question, LEO will be the first or second pick.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Agree! Nice insight again. I think one of the reasons that Eli is being tried at Edge rusher is because our new coach Chris Kiffen saw something and suggested it to Saleh, John and Kyle. The Kiffen gap penetration scheme relies on very quick but *undersized* D Linemen that can blow through the gap and screw up the run blocking schemes and also to pressure the passer. Everybody is looking for an edge rusher like Aldon Smith 2.0 in the draft (a guy that's 260 and can run like an Olympic sprinter and bench press elephants). I think with Kiffen now our pass rush coach, the 49ers maybe are looking for an undersized DE, more akin to Fred Dean than Reggie White specially if all the elite edge rushers are gone by the 9th or 10th pick.

Good, he can get all our interior edge rushers inside more instead of trying to make them edge players they clearly aren't meant to be. Don't forget Pita.T. has some edge rush and has trained all year to be a SAM. If he adds ANY edge rush, that could be an upgrade over Eli.

Eli just stinks as an edge rusher and moving him to LEO is the next signal he's getting cut IMHO.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

CB - Trumaine Johnson & Travis Carrie
LEO - Jeremiah Attaochu
Gx2 - Andrew Norwell & Brandon Fusco
SAM - Avery Williamson
WR - None
RB - None

Either Garnett is one of the answers or he might be a draft day trade possibility. Imagine trading him to a power line team for a 2nd rounder. Maybe a trade with Miami for WR Landry? That would be rather sweet. He's not a bust...yet. But seems better suited for a different scheme. If he can adapt to Shanahan's scheme then we are one step closer to a solid OL.

And as mentioned...a need for a center. Baltimore has two good centers so I could see a trade for their starter if they lock both up. Jensen is a free agent unless he is franchised...and as one of the best centers in the league that is not out of the question. They traded for Bowanko last year to back up Jensen so they aren't strapped if Jensen leaves. Starting to get excited as the combine gets going!

Interesting. Kilgore's contract is basically a 1 year deal so if they go after Jensen, I'd be stoked (albeit, surprised). They owe it to JG to get the best OL in front of him.

Garnett? Anyone that is counting on this guy is going themselves. You secure Fusco and MAKE Garnett beat him out.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
Either Garnett is one of the answers or he might be a draft day trade possibility. Imagine trading him to a power line team for a 2nd rounder. Maybe a trade with Miami for WR Landry? That would be rather sweet. He's not a bust...yet. But seems better suited for a different scheme. If he can adapt to Shanahan's scheme then we are one step closer to a solid OL.

And as mentioned...a need for a center. Baltimore has two good centers so I could see a trade for their starter if they lock both up. Jensen is a free agent unless he is franchised...and as one of the best centers in the league that is not out of the question. They traded for Bowanko last year to back up Jensen so they aren't strapped if Jensen leaves. Starting to get excited as the combine gets going!

I have been thinking that Carlos Hyde would be a good pick-up for the Detroit Lions who apparently need to upgrade their running attack. Maybe they would be interested in Garnett as well if the Niners didn't think he was going to end up working out for them. I suspect though that they will give him through training camp to see if is someone who can contribute

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Probably ought to put a C in there also. I think you just overlooked it.

This is just a free agency guesstimate. Since we signed Kilgore to what amounts to a 1 year deal, it signals we'll draft a C and he'll train behind Kilgore until ready.

LEO...absolutely nothing out there in FA so we're forced to go the draft route there too (which also, is pretty weak).

Agree! Nice insight again. I think one of the reasons that Eli is being tried at Edge rusher is because our new coach Chris Kiffen saw something and suggested it to Saleh, John and Kyle. The Kiffen gap penetration scheme relies on very quick but *undersized* D Linemen that can blow through the gap and screw up the run blocking schemes and also to pressure the passer. Everybody is looking for an edge rusher like Aldon Smith 2.0 in the draft (a guy that's 260 and can run like an Olympic sprinter and bench press elephants). I think with Kiffen now our pass rush coach, the 49ers maybe are looking for an undersized DE, more akin to Fred Dean than Reggie White specially if all the elite edge rushers are gone by the 9th or 10th pick.

Well, perhaps Eli makes a run at LEO, but I haven't been that impressed. What I AM interested in is Marsh, you know the guy that appeared about the time JimmyG did. Didn't really shine, but you saw some talent that was limited perhaps by not knowing the position he was playing or not knowing a particular D set. I am curious about him but not about Day. Day pushes other guys off the squad. Marsh tho, wouldn't that be a kick in the bupkis if he turned out to be our long lost LEO? Still unlikely, but I want to see him take it for a spin.

Oh, and Giedi, FTR, I had been in favor of doing exactly what you suggest....take all the OL in FA. Lots of OGs, and 5 Centers or so. BUT...then I started looking at the film on those Interior OLs, and got the bad news. Aside from Norwell, I don't know if those guys are a lot better than what we have at present. Sure , if john sees an OG or C he thinks is a starter at OG C OG, great , take him. It is just I was super depressed after watching film of the top 4 guys I would have liked in FA. As it turned out there was just one I thot was really great, the obvious norwell.. John and kyle KNOW they got skunkerated with their first shot at building an OL from scratch. Barnes, Fsco, Laken, Zut ,Kilgore....so I think they will be super wary this time around, and will only take an FA if Norwell, or someone at C or other OG that they are sure is a starter. My bet is carrying 10 OLs at start of yr. That gets whittled down to 9, but bet we start at 10. I think garnett makes it as backup, BTW.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Probably ought to put a C in there also. I think you just overlooked it.

This is just a free agency guesstimate. Since we signed Kilgore to what amounts to a 1 year deal, it signals we'll draft a C and he'll train behind Kilgore until ready.

LEO...absolutely nothing out there in FA so we're forced to go the draft route there too (which also, is pretty weak).

Agree! Nice insight again. I think one of the reasons that Eli is being tried at Edge rusher is because our new coach Chris Kiffen saw something and suggested it to Saleh, John and Kyle. The Kiffen gap penetration scheme relies on very quick but *undersized* D Linemen that can blow through the gap and screw up the run blocking schemes and also to pressure the passer. Everybody is looking for an edge rusher like Aldon Smith 2.0 in the draft (a guy that's 260 and can run like an Olympic sprinter and bench press elephants). I think with Kiffen now our pass rush coach, the 49ers maybe are looking for an undersized DE, more akin to Fred Dean than Reggie White specially if all the elite edge rushers are gone by the 9th or 10th pick.

Well, perhaps Eli makes a run at LEO, but I haven't been that impressed. What I AM interested in is Marsh, you know the guy that appeared about the time JimmyG did. Didn't really shine, but you saw some talent that was limited perhaps by not knowing the position he was playing or not knowing a particular D set. I am curious about him but not about Day. Day pushes other guys off the squad. Marsh tho, wouldn't that be a kick in the bupkis if he turned out to be our long lost LEO? Still unlikely, but I want to see him take it for a spin.

Eli is fast and capable but he hasn't developed technique yet. Can he learn to be a pass rusher? Hope so because he's a very high character guy and teams can't have enough of those!

Just a note about an EDGE. Initially we heard about two DLs, playing in 5 play rotations. Obviously we had no EDGE, or LEO, but we sure tried a bunch of guys out at it. Now it is no secret we have what , 10..11...or 12 DLs? Hard to keep track. But we have a great DL and depth, but no outside passrush. So here's a couple scenarios. What if Vita dropped in our laps at 9? He once again is inside DL, but the guy is an absolute game changer. I mean this guy is the best up the gut. Ooops we got 12 or 13 DLs, and no LEO. Well, Eli is getting auditioned, marsh is too, but instead of rotating 2 entire DLs every 5 plays we morphed into our run D on 1st and 2nd down, and pass D on 3rd down. (Generally...on the goal line on 3rd down we got our run D in probably) So what has happened is we now rotate our pass D in on pass downs and run D on run downs. If we get one guy who can penetrate from the outside just a bit better than we have, could that be enough to pressure the QB. Our DLs are darn good.

OR, how about our LEO, ends up being Vita, except he penetrates and pressures the passer from right up the gut. It wouldn't be normal or usual, but it might be the answer, when the EDGEs just aren't there. At the very least in that situation, I would also want two starting LBs, both very capable of a great passrush. With just one of the many inside DLs we have at present becoming our LEO, a pair of passrushing LBs would be an absolute necessity. And those are a lot easier to find than EDGEs. So no way of knowing how we rebuild our D, but my guess is kYle and john have had this chat, along with many others. There may be a way to do without an EDGE and it still works out.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Just a note about an EDGE. Initially we heard about two DLs, playing in 5 play rotations. Obviously we had no EDGE, or LEO, but we sure tried a bunch of guys out at it. Now it is no secret we have what , 10..11...or 12 DLs? Hard to keep track. But we have a great DL and depth, but no outside passrush. So here's a couple scenarios. What if Vita dropped in our laps at 9? He once again is inside DL, but the guy is an absolute game changer. I mean this guy is the best up the gut. Ooops we got 12 or 13 DLs, and no LEO. Well, Eli is getting auditioned, marsh is too, but instead of rotating 2 entire DLs every 5 plays we morphed into our run D on 1st and 2nd down, and pass D on 3rd down. (Generally...on the goal line on 3rd down we got our run D in probably) So what has happened is we now rotate our pass D in on pass downs and run D on run downs. If we get one guy who can penetrate from the outside just a bit better than we have, could that be enough to pressure the QB. Our DLs are darn good.

OR, how about our LEO, ends up being Vita, except he penetrates and pressures the passer from right up the gut. It wouldn't be normal or usual, but it might be the answer, when the EDGEs just aren't there. At the very least in that situation, I would also want two starting LBs, both very capable of a great passrush. With just one of the many inside DLs we have at present a pair of passrushing LBs would be an absolute necessity. And those are a lot easier to find than EDGEs. So no way of knowing how we rebuild our D, but my guess is kYle and john have had this chat, along with many others. There may be a way to do without an EDGE and it still works out.

Paso...they will have to be lucky to find a game changer, but they may take a huge step up as a unit. I could see all these young guys maturing together and being very difficult for OLs to contend with. But watching these big guys trying to catch Wilson in Seattle...

No question dtg, but when did you last see a team with 8 starting DLs? Been awhile that's for sure. And another contender for breakout guy is Solomon. The guy is a machine, but was obviously green while learning, but man could he get thru that OL. Kinda like Arik in a way. But then once thru, he paused, reconnoitered, and then went to the ball...but usually a bit late. This yr, full yr under his belt. what if he busts thru the OL, and is a QB magnet? or DeFo? or Mitch, or DJ or Arik? Blair? Mitch? Point is if they happen to mature, and we got 8-12 of them, EDGE may not really be that important if pressure is coming everywhere. And the Vita scenario, I hope we don't have that. But that would be a game changer too. Not the usual, but effective. Would love to see Minka there. Passrush is right there with protecting JG right at the top of the list. And it is looking more and more like we are positioned to have an alternative way to the QB. It isn't like it was planned, but seems like we slid into this possibility, in case we once again find no ER.

Great discussion in here fellas.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:
I agree with almost everything you posted, I'd just add and modify one or two things. I'd like to get better players, sure, but I'd also be open to getting *younger* players - even if they aren't quite as good as the players we have already on the team. I agree, we need to plug in a free agent to replace Reuben's snaps this next year as I'm pretty sure he'll be unavailable for a good chunk of 2019 or the 2020 season (if he appeals). Now I don't think you need to go with a highly paid free agent to replace Reuben. I think - if you can't find that good all around free agent LB - then you go with a good run defender LB and a good pass defender LB (both probably below average LB's overall) and you can do situation substitution defense with those two LB's. Also, as much as I'd like a free agent corner, I'd rather prioritize the O Line in this years free agency. If you can save a draft pick because you got a decent O Lineman, you can devote that to a young corner in the draft. As for LEO, aside from Ziggy and Demarcus, there aren't any sure fire edge rushers out there (so says the draft nerds) so you go with youth and potential and draft one in the draft and let it all shake out in training camp and preseason.

Agreed on Rueben. Getting a SAM like Williamson (who can add a little edge rush) would be a big upgrade over Eli Harold and he's only 26. He's also played inside in a 3-4 so he could play MIKE once fully versed if needed. Then you can go A.Williamson - M.Smith - R.Foster or if Rueben is out, E.Harold - A.Williamson - M.Smith.

Also, being him means you don't have to take R.Smith or T.Edmunds in the draft.

I took a flier on a young, high upside LEO who's career has been marred by injuries. If healthy, look out. If not, he's cheap. But no question, LEO will be the first or second pick.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Agree! Nice insight again. I think one of the reasons that Eli is being tried at Edge rusher is because our new coach Chris Kiffen saw something and suggested it to Saleh, John and Kyle. The Kiffen gap penetration scheme relies on very quick but *undersized* D Linemen that can blow through the gap and screw up the run blocking schemes and also to pressure the passer. Everybody is looking for an edge rusher like Aldon Smith 2.0 in the draft (a guy that's 260 and can run like an Olympic sprinter and bench press elephants). I think with Kiffen now our pass rush coach, the 49ers maybe are looking for an undersized DE, more akin to Fred Dean than Reggie White specially if all the elite edge rushers are gone by the 9th or 10th pick.

Good, he can get all our interior edge rushers inside more instead of trying to make them edge players they clearly aren't meant to be. Don't forget Pita.T. has some edge rush and has trained all year to be a SAM. If he adds ANY edge rush, that could be an upgrade over Eli.

Eli just stinks as an edge rusher and moving him to LEO is the next signal he's getting cut IMHO.

Great points! If we can't get an elite free agent LEO, at least get one that is young and has a promising upside and can do other things like play in Reuben's spot *and* pass rush, until Reuben gets bac (if ever).

I've forgotten about Pita. I know he was drafted for the LEO position, but I really didn't pay attention to the fact that he was also being trained for the Mike position. It makes sense to try Eli at pass rusher if Pita is doing well enough to potentially take his job. It seems nobody really likes Eli and I also haven't seen him play enough to make a judgement on his pass rush abilities either. If so, and Pita does well, I don't see Eli staying with us this next year. ShanaLynch keep saying that Pita is making progress in pass rushing. I hope so. I know he has the speed, but if he can develop the upper body strength to throw tackles like rag dolls he can be a starter. If they didn't think Pita could make the squad, they'd have put him on the practice squad but they didn't. And they didn't when they got Cassius either. One final thought, Eli was a Baalke draft, and at that time we were running the 3-4 zone blitz. He just might not be a scheme fit anymore because of that.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Probably ought to put a C in there also. I think you just overlooked it.

This is just a free agency guesstimate. Since we signed Kilgore to what amounts to a 1 year deal, it signals we'll draft a C and he'll train behind Kilgore until ready.

LEO...absolutely nothing out there in FA so we're forced to go the draft route there too (which also, is pretty weak).

Agree! Nice insight again. I think one of the reasons that Eli is being tried at Edge rusher is because our new coach Chris Kiffen saw something and suggested it to Saleh, John and Kyle. The Kiffen gap penetration scheme relies on very quick but *undersized* D Linemen that can blow through the gap and screw up the run blocking schemes and also to pressure the passer. Everybody is looking for an edge rusher like Aldon Smith 2.0 in the draft (a guy that's 260 and can run like an Olympic sprinter and bench press elephants). I think with Kiffen now our pass rush coach, the 49ers maybe are looking for an undersized DE, more akin to Fred Dean than Reggie White specially if all the elite edge rushers are gone by the 9th or 10th pick.

Well, perhaps Eli makes a run at LEO, but I haven't been that impressed. What I AM interested in is Marsh, you know the guy that appeared about the time JimmyG did. Didn't really shine, but you saw some talent that was limited perhaps by not knowing the position he was playing or not knowing a particular D set. I am curious about him but not about Day. Day pushes other guys off the squad. Marsh tho, wouldn't that be a kick in the bupkis if he turned out to be our long lost LEO? Still unlikely, but I want to see him take it for a spin.

Oh, and Giedi, FTR, I had been in favor of doing exactly what you suggest....take all the OL in FA. Lots of OGs, and 5 Centers or so. BUT...then I started looking at the film on those Interior OLs, and got the bad news. Aside from Norwell, I don't know if those guys are a lot better than what we have at present. Sure , if john sees an OG or C he thinks is a starter at OG C OG, great , take him. It is just I was super depressed after watching film of the top 4 guys I would have liked in FA. As it turned out there was just one I thot was really great, the obvious norwell.. John and kyle KNOW they got skunkerated with their first shot at building an OL from scratch. Barnes, Fsco, Laken, Zut ,Kilgore....so I think they will be super wary this time around, and will only take an FA if Norwell, or someone at C or other OG that they are sure is a starter. My bet is carrying 10 OLs at start of yr. That gets whittled down to 9, but bet we start at 10. I think garnett makes it as backup, BTW.

I thought Marsh really did well when he played. He seemed to do really well when one of our powerful DT's were matched next to him and they stunted. He (I think) caused 2 turnovers, and I'd count those as sacks - even though I think one or both of them were called back for a penalty. If he can get stronger and have better upper body strength to have a good inside move, he has plenty speed to the outside and he has enough stamina to continue to fight through blocks to pursue the QB (Unlike Aaron Lunch - who has no stamina after the first 5 seconds). He definitely is a keeper and he's young - and I think his ceiling is still above him. I think he can get better.

Regarding the O Line. Keep in mind we have a bit of a mismatch with Hyde in there running the Outside Zone. It's the RB working with the O Line and having enough reps to know where the hole should be given the various defensive fronts the O Line is facing. In other words, I'm betting those Free Agent O Linemen will be better in Kyle's system than the film you saw of them in those other offensive systems. The Outside Zone Run is a coordination between the various linemen *and* the running back, and to stop it, the defense really has to play some sort of contain read and react defense. If the D Coordinator calls a slant's, stunts, or run blitzes - this outside zone can take advantage of those kinds of things and burn the defense - with the right back with **speed** running the ball. Nice thing about the zone run is if the D coord calls a read and react defense, then Kyle will start trapping or quick hitting them. But it all starts with O linemen that are quick, athletic, and agile and strong enough to position themselves between the RB and the D Lineman without being driven backwards too much. I think there will be gems in free agency, and possibly we already have some pieces on our team already. But it takes a coach and GM to know what they want and what they are looking for. We on the outside have no clue.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Probably ought to put a C in there also. I think you just overlooked it.

This is just a free agency guesstimate. Since we signed Kilgore to what amounts to a 1 year deal, it signals we'll draft a C and he'll train behind Kilgore until ready.

LEO...absolutely nothing out there in FA so we're forced to go the draft route there too (which also, is pretty weak).

Agree! Nice insight again. I think one of the reasons that Eli is being tried at Edge rusher is because our new coach Chris Kiffen saw something and suggested it to Saleh, John and Kyle. The Kiffen gap penetration scheme relies on very quick but *undersized* D Linemen that can blow through the gap and screw up the run blocking schemes and also to pressure the passer. Everybody is looking for an edge rusher like Aldon Smith 2.0 in the draft (a guy that's 260 and can run like an Olympic sprinter and bench press elephants). I think with Kiffen now our pass rush coach, the 49ers maybe are looking for an undersized DE, more akin to Fred Dean than Reggie White specially if all the elite edge rushers are gone by the 9th or 10th pick.

Well, perhaps Eli makes a run at LEO, but I haven't been that impressed. What I AM interested in is Marsh, you know the guy that appeared about the time JimmyG did. Didn't really shine, but you saw some talent that was limited perhaps by not knowing the position he was playing or not knowing a particular D set. I am curious about him but not about Day. Day pushes other guys off the squad. Marsh tho, wouldn't that be a kick in the bupkis if he turned out to be our long lost LEO? Still unlikely, but I want to see him take it for a spin.

Eli is fast and capable but he hasn't developed technique yet. Can he learn to be a pass rusher? Hope so because he's a very high character guy and teams can't have enough of those!

From the one or two plays I"ve seen him rush the passer, he has the explosion and he has good speed, but once the O LIneman gets his hands on him, he seems to stop dead in his tracks and can't shed the O Lineman. We'll see if he can develop those hand fighting techniques and upper body strength that a LEO needs when rushing. If not, I agree with the majority, that he might not make the team this year.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Just a note about an EDGE. Initially we heard about two DLs, playing in 5 play rotations. Obviously we had no EDGE, or LEO, but we sure tried a bunch of guys out at it. Now it is no secret we have what , 10..11...or 12 DLs? Hard to keep track. But we have a great DL and depth, but no outside passrush. So here's a couple scenarios. What if Vita dropped in our laps at 9? He once again is inside DL, but the guy is an absolute game changer. I mean this guy is the best up the gut. Ooops we got 12 or 13 DLs, and no LEO. Well, Eli is getting auditioned, marsh is too, but instead of rotating 2 entire DLs every 5 plays we morphed into our run D on 1st and 2nd down, and pass D on 3rd down. (Generally...on the goal line on 3rd down we got our run D in probably) So what has happened is we now rotate our pass D in on pass downs and run D on run downs. If we get one guy who can penetrate from the outside just a bit better than we have, could that be enough to pressure the QB. Our DLs are darn good.

OR, how about our LEO, ends up being Vita, except he penetrates and pressures the passer from right up the gut. It wouldn't be normal or usual, but it might be the answer, when the EDGEs just aren't there. At the very least in that situation, I would also want two starting LBs, both very capable of a great passrush. With just one of the many inside DLs we have at present becoming our LEO, a pair of passrushing LBs would be an absolute necessity. And those are a lot easier to find than EDGEs. So no way of knowing how we rebuild our D, but my guess is kYle and john have had this chat, along with many others. There may be a way to do without an EDGE and it still works out.

From what I understand the 4-3 under needs a true nose tackle and a big end - similar to a strong side 3-4 DE. I think, as you said, we have those. I think Earl Michell, DJ JOnes, and Day and play in those two spots. The two other positions the 3-tch DT gap penetrator and LEO, we have Buckner and Solomon Thomas. For LEO we have Cassius and Elvis. So while I really like Vita from an athletic point of view, may not be there at 9 or that we might just drop out of the 9th pick and go with two edge rushers towards the middle round of the first round and a 2nd rounder DE (Marcus Davenport and Harold Landry) Wouldn't that be great if we got two good edge rushers? I'd rather have ONE great edge rusher, but at pick 9, I don't see than happening unless there's a heavy run on the QB's.

If we do well in Free Agency and get our CB and O LIne depth fixed up, we possibly can trade up for Chubb, but that will take significant draft capital to do so. Do we give up next years 1st or 2nd round to get Chubb? I leave it to the draft nerds, but I know Chubb is going to cost a lot of draft capital unless somehow we get lucky and he falls to 6 or 7th pick and then we have a shot at Chubb. Personally, I'd give a second if we can get an elite edge rusher. Walsh traded for Fred Dean, it cost Walsh a first and second rounder. But was it worth it? Two super bowls later - I'd say yeah.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Just a note about an EDGE. Initially we heard about two DLs, playing in 5 play rotations. Obviously we had no EDGE, or LEO, but we sure tried a bunch of guys out at it. Now it is no secret we have what , 10..11...or 12 DLs? Hard to keep track. But we have a great DL and depth, but no outside passrush. So here's a couple scenarios. What if Vita dropped in our laps at 9? He once again is inside DL, but the guy is an absolute game changer. I mean this guy is the best up the gut. Ooops we got 12 or 13 DLs, and no LEO. Well, Eli is getting auditioned, marsh is too, but instead of rotating 2 entire DLs every 5 plays we morphed into our run D on 1st and 2nd down, and pass D on 3rd down. (Generally...on the goal line on 3rd down we got our run D in probably) So what has happened is we now rotate our pass D in on pass downs and run D on run downs. If we get one guy who can penetrate from the outside just a bit better than we have, could that be enough to pressure the QB. Our DLs are darn good.

OR, how about our LEO, ends up being Vita, except he penetrates and pressures the passer from right up the gut. It wouldn't be normal or usual, but it might be the answer, when the EDGEs just aren't there. At the very least in that situation, I would also want two starting LBs, both very capable of a great passrush. With just one of the many inside DLs we have at present becoming our LEO, a pair of passrushing LBs would be an absolute necessity. And those are a lot easier to find than EDGEs. So no way of knowing how we rebuild our D, but my guess is kYle and john have had this chat, along with many others. There may be a way to do without an EDGE and it still works out.

From what I understand the 4-3 under needs a true nose tackle and a big end - similar to a strong side 3-4 DE. I think, as you said, we have those. I think Earl Michell, DJ JOnes, and Day and play in those two spots. The two other positions the 3-tch DT gap penetrator and LEO, we have Buckner and Solomon Thomas. For LEO we have Cassius and Elvis. So while I really like Vita from an athletic point of view, may not be there at 9 or that we might just drop out of the 9th pick and go with two edge rushers towards the middle round of the first round and a 2nd rounder DE (Marcus Davenport and Harold Landry) Wouldn't that be great if we got two good edge rushers? I'd rather have ONE great edge rusher, but at pick 9, I don't see than happening unless there's a heavy run on the QB's.

If we do well in Free Agency and get our CB and O LIne depth fixed up, we possibly can trade up for Chubb, but that will take significant draft capital to do so. Do we give up next years 1st or 2nd round to get Chubb? I leave it to the draft nerds, but I know Chubb is going to cost a lot of draft capital unless somehow we get lucky and he falls to 6 or 7th pick and then we have a shot at Chubb. Personally, I'd give a second if we can get an elite edge rusher. Walsh traded for Fred Dean, it cost Walsh a first and second rounder. But was it worth it? Two super bowls later - I'd say yeah.

Seems like the best defenses are playing multiple sets and even schemes these days. That will need the niners players to gain experience playing together so the stunting you mentioned can take off. Mitchell and DJ Jones can play nose right now and they have so many nice pieces that the only missing ingredient is that elite edge rusher who can force the offense away from his side. Other than this their hope is to overwhelm the offenses by collapsing the pocket the old fashion way...brute strength. Either way is OK but the more tools the better!

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2762611-trumaine-johnson-rumors-raiders-49ers-and-jets-interested-in-cb

Trumaine Johnson expected to sign with either Raiders or 49ers