John Lynch - 49ers GM

Originally posted by philosoraptor:
Again you speak about stats in your last post and then speak in hypotheticals. You can't prove what you said. Facts are he missed all last season with injury, is banged up this year and isn't boasting huge number this season when healthy anyways. He hasn't been a number 1 for three years. He wouldn't be the difference in winning. There is no guarantee he would be excellent.

That's fine that you give up on Garcon, like many of us. But please show me where you said this off-season he was going to be a dud this year. Again we drafted Pettis to replace Garcon. We have sunk resources into the position but the return isn't immediate due to pettis' injury.

Goodwin Has looked better over the last year than Robinson, period.

Nothing is ever a guarantee. Not in the draft or free agency. When you look to acquire talent anywhere, there is always a risk factor. This is what people complain about. That we are not aggressive enough.

Again, it is fine if you think that. But from a risk mitigation standpoint, many people here did not want to take Gordon because of his perceived issues. Same with Robinson. If you're always going to be worried about risk, you will never get better.

I just wanted Robinson from a pure talent evaluation perspective. It had nothing to do with his numbers. We believed his numbers were bad because Bortles was throwing to him. That's why he became available in the first place. I believe the numbers would come with a good QB throwing to him.

Again, I believe your opinion on Josh Gordon would be much different if he got traded to another team with a bad QB. He wouldn't be producing. But since he is with Brady, its a different story. Now he is labeled as a stud that we missed out on.

Originally posted by swaccmac1:

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

Originally posted by swaccmac1:

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

Originally posted by okdkid:

We've had an assload of cap dollars for an exceptional amount of time now. Being "prudent" has cost us talent.

Time to go big game hunting in free agency and "overpay" for multiple top tier FAs. Also, must de-value mid round picks and trade them away for proven NFL starters.

So who did you want us to sign this past offseason that would have changed our fortunes?

well lets see ..... there was allen robinson ,Sammy Watkins ,trumaine Johnson ,nate solder, Andrew norwell, Malcolm butler, ..... forget it we probably would still suck. #keep hope alive lol !!!

LOLOL

Allen Robinson: Averaging 47.5
Pierre garçon: averaging 32.8 yards per game.
Thats extra 15 yards is really the difference huh? Check his numbers, he's been above average at best.

Oh you mean this truman johnson? The one Sherman is out performing? The one who is also injured?

https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2018/10/02/trumaine-johnson-not-living-up-to-the-hype-just-yet/

Or how about the nate solder with an injured neck who has been apart of an awful giants line. How about the fact the Mclginchey has outplayed him thus far this season, at a cheaper price.
https://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2018/09/are_the_giants_getting_their_moneys_worth_for_nate.html
https://weei.radio.com/blogs/alex-reimer/nate-solder-michael-bennett-strip-sack-shows-how-bad-star-left-tackle-has-played

Or how about marcom butler. Another corner being outplayed by Sherm.

https://weei.radio.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/malcolm-butler-struggles-titans-cornerback-says-he-needs-get-back-basics

Or the fact that mike persons has played at the same level for the vast majority of the season as Andrew orwell who has cost multiple times more:

https://www.jacksonville.com/sports/20180928/success-is-taking-time-for-jaguars-lineman-andrew-norwell

Sammy Watkins would be an upgrade but he has been up and down all season long. Not exactly earning the entirety of that pay check.

Everyone you listed hasn't earned their paycheck. Perhaps look past the name next time and do 5 seconds of research you'd all be losing it right now that we overspent if we had gotten the majority of those players.

were losing it right now any way this team sucks I don't know how to say it any plainer. I would feel better knowing they tried. I don't care how much research you do to win your argument .What they did isn't working either. every time I see richturd get pushed in the back field I say that's wasted money. every time I see garcon with a cornerback draped all over him I say wasted money. every time I think about cassius march I say wasted money. not to mention the free money that attochu and the guard from dallas walked away with.

So you're just going to ignore the educated for the petulant statement that have no substance? So they should spend on big free agents to make YOU feel better? the ego on you. This ain't madden bro.

So we're just going to ignore Sherman, juice, and Goodwin. Also, richburg get wrecked yesterday. But richburg>>>>>>>>>>Kilgore.

another thing you complain about marsh, and by no means is he starting material, but who was the easily attainable pass rusher that would have changed the complextion of our defense?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Originally posted by philosoraptor:
LOLOL

Allen Robinson: Averaging 47.5
Pierre garçon: averaging 32.8 yards per game.
Thats extra 15 yards is really the difference huh? Check his numbers, he's been above average at best.

Oh you mean this truman johnson? The one Sherman is out performing? The one who is also injured?

https://jetswire.usatoday.com/2018/10/02/trumaine-johnson-not-living-up-to-the-hype-just-yet/

Or how about the nate solder with an injured neck who has been apart of an awful giants line. How about the fact the Mclginchey has outplayed him thus far this season, at a cheaper price.
https://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2018/09/are_the_giants_getting_their_moneys_worth_for_nate.html
https://weei.radio.com/blogs/alex-reimer/nate-solder-michael-bennett-strip-sack-shows-how-bad-star-left-tackle-has-played

Or how about marcom butler. Another corner being outplayed by Sherm.

https://weei.radio.com/blogs/ryan-hannable/malcolm-butler-struggles-titans-cornerback-says-he-needs-get-back-basics

Or the fact that mike persons has played at the same level for the vast majority of the season as Andrew orwell who has cost multiple times more:

https://www.jacksonville.com/sports/20180928/success-is-taking-time-for-jaguars-lineman-andrew-norwell

Sammy Watkins would be an upgrade but he has been up and down all season long. Not exactly earning the entirety of that pay check.

Everyone you listed hasn't earned their paycheck. Perhaps look past the name next time and do 5 seconds of research you'd all be losing it right now that we overspent if we had gotten the majority of those players.

Which is usually how free agency goes. Most of those guys who got big paydays will be cut in a few years by their respective teams leaving huge piles of dead money.

Building a team through free agency never works.

Very true. But supplementing typically works great. Also, on the flip side, solely building through the draft like us (2011) and the Rams takes like 7 years of top 10 picks for a 3 year window.

Bottom line: you have to do both. And coaching and player development are crucial elements as are game planning.

They have. They've brought in a number of free agents, many on huge contracts: Juice, Jet, Richburg, Garcon, and Sherman. Then they brought in more 2nd tier guys: Mitchell, Person, Smith.

They've even been able to pull some trades: Jimmy G, Tomlinson

It's not as though they have completely ignored free agency and trade opportunities.

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Originally posted by bud49:
And BOOOOM!! Mr Cooper goes to the Cowboys. I wonder if Lynch even kicked the tires on this one?

Would you have offered our first rounder for him?

Other teams around the league continue to actively make moves to improve their rosters...we on the other hand are waiting by the phone for someone else crazy enough to call us again about trading a player to this team.

You are deflecting. Would you have offered a 1st?

We need that 1st for an edge rusher.

Edge rushers in this league >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> WRs in this league.

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Originally posted by bud49:

And BOOOOM!! Mr Cooper goes to the Cowboys. I wonder if Lynch even kicked the tires on this one?

Would you have offered our first rounder for him?

Other teams around the league continue to actively make moves to improve their rosters...we on the other hand are waiting by the phone for someone else crazy enough to call us again about trading a player to this team.

Was a pretty simple yes or no question.

Would you have given up our first for Cooper?

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

Originally posted by philosoraptor:
Again you speak about stats in your last post and then speak in hypotheticals. You can't prove what you said. Facts are he missed all last season with injury, is banged up this year and isn't boasting huge number this season when healthy anyways. He hasn't been a number 1 for three years. He wouldn't be the difference in winning. There is no guarantee he would be excellent.

That's fine that you give up on Garcon, like many of us. But please show me where you said this off-season he was going to be a dud this year. Again we drafted Pettis to replace Garcon. We have sunk resources into the position but the return isn't immediate due to pettis' injury.

Goodwin Has looked better over the last year than Robinson, period.

Nothing is ever a guarantee. Not in the draft or free agency. When you look to acquire talent anywhere, there is always a risk factor. This is what people complain about. That we are not aggressive enough.

Again, it is fine if you think that. But from a risk mitigation standpoint, many people here did not want to take Gordon because of his perceived issues. Same with Robinson. If you're always going to be worried about risk, you will never get better.

I just wanted Robinson from a pure talent evaluation perspective. It had nothing to do with his numbers. We believed his numbers were bad because Bortles was throwing to him. That's why he became available in the first place. I believe the numbers would come with a good QB throwing to him.

Again, I believe your opinion on Josh Gordon would be much different if he got traded to another team with a bad QB. He wouldn't be producing. But since he is with Brady, its a different story. Now he is labeled as a stud that we missed out on.

Im not sure what you mean by not aggressive enough? We have made multiple trades( Jimmy, Tomlinson) and signed a bunch of free agents (Garcon, goodwin, persons, cooper, mitchell, malcom smith, juice, sherman, and richburg).

We 've invested a ton i the receiving core(garçon, goodwin, trent taylor, dante pettis, and richie james), and I do not think anyone expected this drop off from garcon. If you did, please show me. So what you're telling me is you're simply mad they didn't get YOUR guy? Because its cleary not about investing resources in to the position, aka Trent Baalke. Injuries, plus garçon's drop off have put a damper on this but you simply act like it hasn't been addressed.

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

Again you speak about stats in your last post and then speak in hypotheticals. You can't prove what you said. Facts are he missed all last season with injury, is banged up this year and isn't boasting huge number this season when healthy anyways. He hasn't been a number 1 for three years. He wouldn't be the difference in winning. There is no guarantee he would be excellent.

That's fine that you give up on Garcon, like many of us. But please show me where you said this off-season he was going to be a dud this year. Again we drafted Pettis to replace Garcon. We have sunk resources into the position but the return isn't immediate due to pettis' injury.

Goodwin Has looked better over the last year than Robinson, period.

Nothing is ever a guarantee. Not in the draft or free agency. When you look to acquire talent anywhere, there is always a risk factor. This is what people complain about. That we are not aggressive enough.

Again, it is fine if you think that. But from a risk mitigation standpoint, many people here did not want to take Gordon because of his perceived issues. Same with Robinson. If you're always going to be worried about risk, you will never get better.

I just wanted Robinson from a pure talent evaluation perspective. It had nothing to do with his numbers. We believed his numbers were bad because Bortles was throwing to him. That's why he became available in the first place. I believe the numbers would come with a good QB throwing to him.

Again, I believe your opinion on Josh Gordon would be much different if he got traded to another team with a bad QB. He wouldn't be producing. But since he is with Brady, its a different story. Now he is labeled as a stud that we missed out on.

Im not sure what you mean by not aggressive enough? We have made multiple trades( Jimmy, Tomlinson) and signed a bunch of free agents (Garcon, goodwin, persons, cooper, mitchell, malcom smith, juice, sherman, and richburg).

We 've invested a ton i the receiving core(garçon, goodwin, trent taylor, dante pettis, and richie james), and I do not think anyone expected this drop off from garcon. If you did, please show me. So what you're telling me is you're simply mad they didn't get YOUR guy? Because its cleary not about investing resources in to the position, aka Trent Baalke. Injuries, plus garçon's drop off have put a damper on this but you simply act like it hasn't been addressed.

It has nothing to do with aggression, it has to do with drafting. So far it's been 50/50 imo. A rock bottom team needs to do better than 50/50 hit/miss when drafting if they expect to climb up the ranks.

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Originally posted by bud49:

And BOOOOM!! Mr Cooper goes to the Cowboys. I wonder if Lynch even kicked the tires on this one?

Would you have offered our first rounder for him?

Other teams around the league continue to actively make moves to improve their rosters...we on the other hand are waiting by the phone for someone else crazy enough to call us again about trading a player to this team.

Was a pretty simple yes or no question.

Would you have given up our first for Cooper?

I dont get all the hype about cooper

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
It has nothing to do with aggression, it has to do with drafting. So far it's been 50/50 imo. A rock bottom team needs to do better than 50/50 hit/miss when drafting if they expect to climb up the ranks.

Dude, historically the BEST teams are 50/50 in the draft. They often lean 65/35 for the Top 1-3 rounds, but overall 50/50 is a high water mark for draft success.

Originally posted by philosoraptor:
Im not sure what you mean by not aggressive enough? We have made multiple trades( Jimmy, Tomlinson) and signed a bunch of free agents (Garcon, goodwin, persons, cooper, mitchell, malcom smith, juice, sherman, and richburg).

We 've invested a ton i the receiving core(garçon, goodwin, trent taylor, dante pettis, and richie james), and I do not think anyone expected this drop off from garcon. If you did, please show me. So what you're telling me is you're simply mad they didn't get YOUR guy? Because its cleary not about investing resources in to the position, aka Trent Baalke. Injuries, plus garçon's drop off have put a damper on this but you simply act like it hasn't been addressed.

last year, I did not believe we had a #1 WR. Actually, I was thinking maybe Goodwin could blossom into it eventually. Not Garcon though. I was ready to move on from him this year.

Yes, I was upset that they didn't get Robinson initially. But then they drafted Pettis so I was hopeful. We will see with him...but if turns out that he isn't the answer, then their approach to the receiving corps needs to change immediately, IMO.

I would probably start looking into overpaying for Randall Cobb or Golden Tate next year after letting Garcon walk. Neither of these guys are as talented or young as Robinson, but it is something to hold us over until the receiving corps is infused with more young talent. Right now its a complete mess. The last thing I want next year is for Jimmy G to be a deer in headlights like he was in the first two games.

Originally posted by captveg:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

It has nothing to do with aggression, it has to do with drafting. So far it's been 50/50 imo. A rock bottom team needs to do better than 50/50 hit/miss when drafting if they expect to climb up the ranks.

Dude, historically the BEST teams are 50/50 in the draft. They often lean 65/35 for the Top 1-3 rounds, but overall 50/50 is a high water mark for draft success.

Ok I'll give you that, but our problem is at the time of this post Thomas, Foster, and Spoon are looking like higly overdrafted picks. It's hurting our growth for sure.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

Originally posted by philosoraptor:
Again you speak about stats in your last post and then speak in hypotheticals. You can't prove what you said. Facts are he missed all last season with injury, is banged up this year and isn't boasting huge number this season when healthy anyways. He hasn't been a number 1 for three years. He wouldn't be the difference in winning. There is no guarantee he would be excellent.

That's fine that you give up on Garcon, like many of us. But please show me where you said this off-season he was going to be a dud this year. Again we drafted Pettis to replace Garcon. We have sunk resources into the position but the return isn't immediate due to pettis' injury.

Goodwin Has looked better over the last year than Robinson, period.

Nothing is ever a guarantee. Not in the draft or free agency. When you look to acquire talent anywhere, there is always a risk factor. This is what people complain about. That we are not aggressive enough.

Again, it is fine if you think that. But from a risk mitigation standpoint, many people here did not want to take Gordon because of his perceived issues. Same with Robinson. If you're always going to be worried about risk, you will never get better.

I just wanted Robinson from a pure talent evaluation perspective. It had nothing to do with his numbers. We believed his numbers were bad because Bortles was throwing to him. That's why he became available in the first place. I believe the numbers would come with a good QB throwing to him.

Again, I believe your opinion on Josh Gordon would be much different if he got traded to another team with a bad QB. He wouldn't be producing. But since he is with Brady, its a different story. Now he is labeled as a stud that we missed out on.

Im not sure what you mean by not aggressive enough? We have made multiple trades( Jimmy, Tomlinson) and signed a bunch of free agents (Garcon, goodwin, persons, cooper, mitchell, malcom smith, juice, sherman, and richburg).

We 've invested a ton i the receiving core(garçon, goodwin, trent taylor, dante pettis, and richie james), and I do not think anyone expected this drop off from garcon. If you did, please show me. So what you're telling me is you're simply mad they didn't get YOUR guy? Because its cleary not about investing resources in to the position, aka Trent Baalke. Injuries, plus garçon's drop off have put a damper on this but you simply act like it hasn't been addressed.

It has nothing to do with aggression, it has to do with drafting. So far it's been 50/50 imo. A rock bottom team needs to do better than 50/50 hit/miss when drafting if they expect to climb up the ranks.

If John Lynch went 50/50 in his drafts he would be the greatest GM of all time, no GM has even touched that margin. Thats just not how the draft works.

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

Again you speak about stats in your last post and then speak in hypotheticals. You can't prove what you said. Facts are he missed all last season with injury, is banged up this year and isn't boasting huge number this season when healthy anyways. He hasn't been a number 1 for three years. He wouldn't be the difference in winning. There is no guarantee he would be excellent.

That's fine that you give up on Garcon, like many of us. But please show me where you said this off-season he was going to be a dud this year. Again we drafted Pettis to replace Garcon. We have sunk resources into the position but the return isn't immediate due to pettis' injury.

Goodwin Has looked better over the last year than Robinson, period.

Nothing is ever a guarantee. Not in the draft or free agency. When you look to acquire talent anywhere, there is always a risk factor. This is what people complain about. That we are not aggressive enough.

Again, it is fine if you think that. But from a risk mitigation standpoint, many people here did not want to take Gordon because of his perceived issues. Same with Robinson. If you're always going to be worried about risk, you will never get better.

I just wanted Robinson from a pure talent evaluation perspective. It had nothing to do with his numbers. We believed his numbers were bad because Bortles was throwing to him. That's why he became available in the first place. I believe the numbers would come with a good QB throwing to him.

Again, I believe your opinion on Josh Gordon would be much different if he got traded to another team with a bad QB. He wouldn't be producing. But since he is with Brady, its a different story. Now he is labeled as a stud that we missed out on.

Im not sure what you mean by not aggressive enough? We have made multiple trades( Jimmy, Tomlinson) and signed a bunch of free agents (Garcon, goodwin, persons, cooper, mitchell, malcom smith, juice, sherman, and richburg).

We 've invested a ton i the receiving core(garçon, goodwin, trent taylor, dante pettis, and richie james), and I do not think anyone expected this drop off from garcon. If you did, please show me. So what you're telling me is you're simply mad they didn't get YOUR guy? Because its cleary not about investing resources in to the position, aka Trent Baalke. Injuries, plus garçon's drop off have put a damper on this but you simply act like it hasn't been addressed.

It has nothing to do with aggression, it has to do with drafting. So far it's been 50/50 imo. A rock bottom team needs to do better than 50/50 hit/miss when drafting if they expect to climb up the ranks.

If John Lynch went 50/50 in his drafts he would be the greatest GM of all time, no GM has even touched that margin. Thats just not how the draft works.

I already clarified my post before.

Originally posted by Ensatsu:

Originally posted by philosoraptor:
Im not sure what you mean by not aggressive enough? We have made multiple trades( Jimmy, Tomlinson) and signed a bunch of free agents (Garcon, goodwin, persons, cooper, mitchell, malcom smith, juice, sherman, and richburg).

We 've invested a ton i the receiving core(garçon, goodwin, trent taylor, dante pettis, and richie james), and I do not think anyone expected this drop off from garcon. If you did, please show me. So what you're telling me is you're simply mad they didn't get YOUR guy? Because its cleary not about investing resources in to the position, aka Trent Baalke. Injuries, plus garçon's drop off have put a damper on this but you simply act like it hasn't been addressed.

last year, I did not believe we had a #1 WR. Actually, I was thinking maybe Goodwin could blossom into it eventually. Not Garcon though. I was ready to move on from him this year.

Yes, I was upset that they didn't get Robinson initially. But then they drafted Pettis so I was hopeful. We will see with him...but if turns out that he isn't the answer, then their approach to the receiving corps needs to change immediately, IMO.

I would probably start looking into overpaying for Randall Cobb or Golden Tate next year after letting Garcon walk. Neither of these guys are as talented or young as Robinson, but it is something to hold us over until the receiving corps is infused with more young talent. Right now its a complete mess. The last thing I want next year is for Jimmy G to be a deer in headlights like he was in the first two games.

I wouldn't overpay for either of them. I don't think their approach needs to change in the slightest, they need to keep investing resources into the position just like they have. I'd go through the draft again and get a big bodied WR in the second.

Originally posted by evil:

Originally posted by jcs:

Originally posted by JaggedJ:

Originally posted by bud49:

And BOOOOM!! Mr Cooper goes to the Cowboys. I wonder if Lynch even kicked the tires on this one?

Would you have offered our first rounder for him?

Other teams around the league continue to actively make moves to improve their rosters...we on the other hand are waiting by the phone for someone else crazy enough to call us again about trading a player to this team.

You are deflecting. Would you have offered a 1st?

My question was "did he kick the tires?" If he didn't then he should have IMO.