Do we have the worst training staff in the league?

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

The 49ers have 15 players on IR, there are 11 other teams who have as many or more players on IR. It is bad but not out of the ordinary.

Bad teams put more players on IR because these players have nothing to play for so there is no reason to risk injuring them further.

I agree. For example, look at the Vikings and Adrian Peterson: if Adrian Peterson played for the 49ers how do you think they would've handled his injury? Chances are they would've put him on IR. The Vikings abstained from doing so, and now he's back in time for the playoff run. Like you alluded to, there wouldn't have been incentive in the Niners getting a player like that back.

Many of the IR players were "redshirt stashes" -- Dres Anderson, DeAndre Smelter, Busta Anderson, Trey Millard, Keith Reaser, Kaleb Ramsey, Kenneth Acker, Luke Marquardt, Brandon Thomas. We can't cry poor fortune on injuries when we're either drafting injured players, or coming up with make-believe injuries to stash them away.

Then you look through the list and realize that there are a lot of bad players on it. Thad Lewis? Chuck Jacobs? Fou Fonoti? Shaun Draughn? Michael Wilhoite? Shayne Skov? Nick Bellore? Chris Davis? Seriously, who cares? These are like fringe practice squad players.

IMO looking at total IR players is extremely misleading. There are many reasons that our counts are inflated.

Agree 100%
The injury excuse rings hollow this year.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:

All of those teams are significantly better than the 49ers, they all have much better records and it isn't even close if you look at point differential.

49ers (16) 1-13 -170
Chargers (22) 5-9 0
Bears (21) 3-11 -72
Bills (21) 7-7 +44
Saints (20) 6-8 +14
Jets (19) 4-10 -116
Ravens (19) 8-6 +43 (Ozzie)
Panthers (16) 5-8 -26

The 49ers have less guys on IR than any of these teams and are much worse and I would bet the players that these each of teams are without are better overall than the guys the 49ers are without.
The injuries made the 49ers worse but I am guessing hte team would still be the second worst in the NFL even if not one player went to IR this year.

Nope. Ravens are the only team that even has a 'chance' to reach the playoffs. 4 of them have FQB's and 4 others thought they did. This clearly proves a very strong correlation to losses. And the years before this one prove that as well. It's no different than how losses can be correlated to losing the TO battle. Point differential is pretty meaningless in an end-result game.

And only the Ravens are rebuilding in that group (kudos to them - every game has been a nail biter save for one).

So if you take a playoff team and add 15+ I.R.'s, they become a sub .500 team even with a FQB. If a rebuilding team has that many, you have us. We all thought we'd win 7 games at most anyhow so all these injuries pushed us in the wrong direction. We can only be competitive in first halfs. I doubt that anymore after 8 more injuries in Atlanta.

Brutal year indeed.

Originally posted by vermonator:

Originally posted by LVJay:
Worst in the entire planet, not just the league...

Worst in history, bro... HISTORY!

Oh my, you're pissed...I feel your pain man lol

Originally posted by NCommand:
True. But keep in mind there are many layers to a team. So while nobody is missing sleep over Wilhoite, Bellore, Skov, etc. the ST coach is. And then later, O'Neil is losing sleep because they are now starting. And then they go down. The ripple effect is on.

I'm not saying that injuries don't matter, I'm saying that IR count is misleading. You cite the IR count on seemingly a daily basis as if we've been victimized by some ungodly display of bad fortune, but there are countless reasonable explanations for why our count is higher than others (GM strategy, nothing to play for, etc).

Yes, all injuries have a ripple effect, but if the culmination of losses like Nick Bellore and Chris Davis are damning on a team, then that's a severe indictment on its depth and collective talent level. That's not bad luck, that's just a bad team.

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

True. But keep in mind there are many layers to a team. So while nobody is missing sleep over Wilhoite, Bellore, Skov, etc. the ST coach is. And then later, O'Neil is losing sleep because they are now starting. And then they go down. The ripple effect is on.

I'm not saying that injuries don't matter, I'm saying that IR count is misleading. You cite the IR count on seemingly a daily basis as if we've been victimized by some ungodly display of bad fortune, but there are countless reasonable explanations for why our count is higher than others (GM strategy, nothing to play for, etc).

Yes, all injuries have a ripple effect, but if the culmination of losses like Nick Bellore and Chris Davis are damning on a team, then that's a severe indictment on its depth and collective talent level. That's not bad luck, that's just a bad team.

It is ungodly when it happens three years in a row.

Ward added as well. That's a big loss b/c now Robinson has to start outside every down as well as Brock and now Dontae Johnson at 6'3" will most likely have to continue to get abused from the slot (and everyone will say he sucks - LOL).

I just wanted to clarify I did agree with your overall premise. I do not agree in minimizing it and acting like "every team has injuries" ~ common line.

Some of those guys may count on the I.R. list but are essentially, worthless, like a Chuck Jacobs. But then there are others like Ian Williams who are lost before the season even starts that do NOT count against I.R. list. So it's important to look at all of your losses as a whole and their importance to your team, value and ripple effect.

But when you start getting above 12+ I.R.'s, it probably doesn't matter...moot point. You're eff'd and that's the bigger picture here and there are very few outliers to that trend.

This is the first time I've seen so MANY other teams getting hammered like we are so the point that this is now a league-wide epidemic this year is a valid one. I too wonder if it has to do with the CBA rules? Clearly, it hasn't mattered for us whether it's Harbaugh, Tomsula or Kelly so maybe it doesn't matter for us either way. LOL

I agree on the depth issue but players are brought in specifically for their effectiveness in ST. It's when those players at the back end of the 53 that have to start, that you're screwed. And sadly, that's exactly what has happened.

Last game looked like a damn pre season game with Carradine, Bellore, Wilhoite, Cromartie, Johnson, Beadles/Martin (at C), Theus at LT, Purcell, Sunseri, Tiller, etc. out there. Sad, I don't expect to have a ton of depth to start a rebuild, but damn...bring on Carl Bradford, DeAndre Smelter, Je'Ron Hamm & Jim Dray!

Bad teams get injured more.

They don't coordinate well so individuals have to work harder to compensate.

Less skilled players have to make more desperation plays just to be competitive.

They make mistakes which get their teammates hurt like missing blocks or throwing to covered receivers.

Originally posted by Jasta:
Bad teams get injured more.

They don't coordinate well so individuals have to work harder to compensate.

Less skilled players have to make more desperation plays just to be competitive.

They make mistakes which get their teammates hurt like missing blocks or throwing to covered receivers.

Good theory but weren't all these team supposed to be good and knocking on the playoff door?

Chargers (22)
Bears (21)
Bills (21)
Saints (20)
Jets (19)
Ravens (19)
Panthers (16)

Cowboys were drafting with us last year too. This is a tough nut to crack.

Updates:

How long has it taken you to get familiar with your new roster? You guys had a lot of new players coming through the door here in the last couple of days.

"Yeah we have. I mean, that's just part of what you have to deal with at this point in time. We've had a lot of injuries and I don't know the number of Injured Reserve. Is it 14 or 15 or 16? I don't even know the number. 16 guys on IR. You've just got to deal with it. You've got to put a group together and get ready to go play."

Why isn't T Joe Staley on IR? Is there a hope?

"There's a hope that Joe can continue to play this year."

And WR Torrey Smith is still going through the protocol?

"He's in the concussion protocol."

What has WR DeAndre Smelter shown you on the practice squad? Is there a chance he could be up for the final two games?

"There is a chance. That's one of the reasons, especially with [WR Quinton Patton] Q.P. being out with the broken foot. We know he's done for the season. Smelt's done a nice job since he came back. Obviously, he had the bad hamstring injury in preseason camp and really couldn't show his true self. But, he's done a nice job since he's been back. He's picked up what we're doing. Gives you good size out there. He's a bigger body and then can also contribute on special teams because he is a bigger body."

Does Patton require surgery?

"Yeah, he already had it."

What about DB Jimmie Ward?

"Jimmie broke a shoulder or scapula. A collarbone. One of those."

Is that a surgery as well?

"Not that I know of."

With DB Jimmie Ward going out, will CB Rashard Robinson be starting now at corner?

"It depends on the package that's in at the time. So, we've got to be able to mix and match. You've got to make sure you know where [Los Angeles Rams WR] Tavon [Austin] is. Is he in the slot? How are we going to match up with that? So, there'll be a lot of different, between [CB Tramaine] Brock, [CB Keith] Reaser and Rashard in terms of who's playing outside."

See more at: http://www.49erswebzone.com/articles/101761-transcript-kelly-gives-injury-update-leading-rams-game/#sthash.V01rk92h.dpuf

I bet Torrey Smith milks his injury until the Offseason...

Originally posted by jcs:

I bet Torrey Smith milks his injury until the Offseason...

He, Dorsey and Staley just need to go on I.R. Absolutely no reason to push themselves with two games left.

Originally posted by TheWooLick:
The 49ers have 15 players on IR, there are 11 other teams who have as many or more players on IR. It is bad but not out of the ordinary.

Bad teams put more players on IR because these players have nothing to play for so there is no reason to risk injuring them further.

What a sad outlook but how else can we look at it? Mercifully their season is almost history.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

True. But keep in mind there are many layers to a team. So while nobody is missing sleep over Wilhoite, Bellore, Skov, etc. the ST coach is. And then later, O'Neil is losing sleep because they are now starting. And then they go down. The ripple effect is on.

I'm not saying that injuries don't matter, I'm saying that IR count is misleading. You cite the IR count on seemingly a daily basis as if we've been victimized by some ungodly display of bad fortune, but there are countless reasonable explanations for why our count is higher than others (GM strategy, nothing to play for, etc).

Yes, all injuries have a ripple effect, but if the culmination of losses like Nick Bellore and Chris Davis are damning on a team, then that's a severe indictment on its depth and collective talent level. That's not bad luck, that's just a bad team.

It is ungodly when it happens three years in a row.

Ward added as well. That's a big loss b/c now Robinson has to start outside every down as well as Brock and now Dontae Johnson at 6'3" will most likely have to continue to get abused from the slot (and everyone will say he sucks - LOL).

I just wanted to clarify I did agree with your overall premise. I do not agree in minimizing it and acting like "every team has injuries" ~ common line.

Some of those guys may count on the I.R. list but are essentially, worthless, like a Chuck Jacobs. But then there are others like Ian Williams who are lost before the season even starts that do NOT count against I.R. list. So it's important to look at all of your losses as a whole and their importance to your team, value and ripple effect.

But when you start getting above 12+ I.R.'s, it probably doesn't matter...moot point. You're eff'd and that's the bigger picture here and there are very few outliers to that trend.

This is the first time I've seen so MANY other teams getting hammered like we are so the point that this is now a league-wide epidemic this year is a valid one. I too wonder if it has to do with the CBA rules? Clearly, it hasn't mattered for us whether it's Harbaugh, Tomsula or Kelly so maybe it doesn't matter for us either way. LOL

I agree on the depth issue but players are brought in specifically for their effectiveness in ST. It's when those players at the back end of the 53 that have to start, that you're screwed. And sadly, that's exactly what has happened.

Last game looked like a damn pre season game with Carradine, Bellore, Wilhoite, Cromartie, Johnson, Beadles/Martin (at C), Theus at LT, Purcell, Sunseri, Tiller, etc. out there. Sad, I don't expect to have a ton of depth to start a rebuild, but damn...bring on Carl Bradford, DeAndre Smelter, Je'Ron Hamm & Jim Dray!

Terrific post, NC. The really interesting question plus the list of teams affected is somewhere between bizarre and worrisome...actually, both. Question : Why are we reading about this here, and not seeing it on Sportscenter, or NFL network. Number of viewers has fallen off, networks are worried about it, and everyone is saying there is such talent dilution, it has made the game not very interesting.

Well, he'll, yeah. The 7 teams listed above, not to mention us means 8/32 or 1 out of every 4 teams has enough IR not to mention PUP that any semblance of good play is not likely.

And sure enough, it isn't. Some thots as to why were mentioned, but I am wondering now , if the same thing I wondered earlier, when CBA cut the practice time, # of practices, length of practices, and had OTAs instead of practice without pads, plus a whole host of other things to make TC easier on players...has actually come back to bite them in the heinie...and actually been the cause of these massive injuries that all teams get, but nowhere near as bad as the 7 teams listed above, plus, of course, us.

I guess the other thing that truly stands out is, that when we have to bring in reserves, they just aren't up to par...and some actually look like they have no business on the field. I agree with Wu above, that even tho we have injuries, our talent level is woefully inadequate, once you see what our subs can't do, there has to be someone(s) that has to be held accountable for this weak a collection of talent.

I won't say much about Jed, because I hope he hasn't been part of this. But EVP paraag, GM Trent and now HC Chip...all have responsibility for the lack of talent they have put on the field. Give chip somewhat of a pass, but EVP and GM...no Bueno. No Bueno at all. They have been here thruout.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by theduke85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

True. But keep in mind there are many layers to a team. So while nobody is missing sleep over Wilhoite, Bellore, Skov, etc. the ST coach is. And then later, O'Neil is losing sleep because they are now starting. And then they go down. The ripple effect is on.

I'm not saying that injuries don't matter, I'm saying that IR count is misleading. You cite the IR count on seemingly a daily basis as if we've been victimized by some ungodly display of bad fortune, but there are countless reasonable explanations for why our count is higher than others (GM strategy, nothing to play for, etc).

Yes, all injuries have a ripple effect, but if the culmination of losses like Nick Bellore and Chris Davis are damning on a team, then that's a severe indictment on its depth and collective talent level. That's not bad luck, that's just a bad team.

It is ungodly when it happens three years in a row.

Ward added as well. That's a big loss b/c now Robinson has to start outside every down as well as Brock and now Dontae Johnson at 6'3" will most likely have to continue to get abused from the slot (and everyone will say he sucks - LOL).

I just wanted to clarify I did agree with your overall premise. I do not agree in minimizing it and acting like "every team has injuries" ~ common line.

Some of those guys may count on the I.R. list but are essentially, worthless, like a Chuck Jacobs. But then there are others like Ian Williams who are lost before the season even starts that do NOT count against I.R. list. So it's important to look at all of your losses as a whole and their importance to your team, value and ripple effect.

But when you start getting above 12+ I.R.'s, it probably doesn't matter...moot point. You're eff'd and that's the bigger picture here and there are very few outliers to that trend.

This is the first time I've seen so MANY other teams getting hammered like we are so the point that this is now a league-wide epidemic this year is a valid one. I too wonder if it has to do with the CBA rules? Clearly, it hasn't mattered for us whether it's Harbaugh, Tomsula or Kelly so maybe it doesn't matter for us either way. LOL

I agree on the depth issue but players are brought in specifically for their effectiveness in ST. It's when those players at the back end of the 53 that have to start, that you're screwed. And sadly, that's exactly what has happened.

Last game looked like a damn pre season game with Carradine, Bellore, Wilhoite, Cromartie, Johnson, Beadles/Martin (at C), Theus at LT, Purcell, Sunseri, Tiller, etc. out there. Sad, I don't expect to have a ton of depth to start a rebuild, but damn...bring on Carl Bradford, DeAndre Smelter, Je'Ron Hamm & Jim Dray!

Terrific post, NC. The really interesting question plus the list of teams affected is somewhere between bizarre and worrisome...actually, both. Question : Why are we reading about this here, and not seeing it on Sportscenter, or NFL network. Number of viewers has fallen off, networks are worried about it, and everyone is saying there is such talent dilution, it has made the game not very interesting.

Well, he'll, yeah. The 7 teams listed above, not to mention us means 8/32 or 1 out of every 4 teams has enough IR not to mention PUP that any semblance of good play is not likely.

And sure enough, it isn't. Some thots as to why were mentioned, but I am wondering now , if the same thing I wondered earlier, when CBA cut the practice time, # of practices, length of practices, and had OTAs instead of practice without pads, plus a whole host of other things to make TC easier on players...has actually come back to bite them in the heinie...and actually been the cause of these massive injuries that all teams get, but nowhere near as bad as the 7 teams listed above, plus, of course, us.

Talking about adding insult to injury!

I would guess part of it is some of these players are tired of all this crappy organization BS. Player A cuts his toenails too short and it causes pain, he uses said pain to miss practices then a game and then on the IR with a foot issue. It prob more of them wanting to be done with this Dumpster Fire abortion.