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Niners hire Jim O'Neil as DC

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Originally posted by NCommand:
This made me smile!

"I think we'll be a little more simple this year," Armstead said. "Get lined up and just play, really. And not try to make it more complicated than it is. … Put the linemen in front of people and, you know, beat them up. That's the vibe I'm getting from the meetings so far."

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/article73976877.html#storylink=cpy

Music to my ears. I think we'll see less Keystone Kops on D this year without guys out there over thinking it.
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Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by Niners816:
Just remember, it had nothing to do with having Hudson, Zito, Mulder and a SS hitting .330 and knocking in a buck thirty. Hatteberg and getting Justice to take walks was the key

Except he never hit .330 in Oakland.

Sorry, .308
Originally posted by KezarLivin:
Originally posted by NCommand:
This made me smile!

"I think we'll be a little more simple this year," Armstead said. "Get lined up and just play, really. And not try to make it more complicated than it is. … Put the linemen in front of people and, you know, beat them up. That's the vibe I'm getting from the meetings so far."

Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/sports/nfl/san-francisco-49ers/article73976877.html#storylink=cpy

Music to my ears. I think we'll see less Keystone Kops on D this year without guys out there over thinking it.

On topic. What's interesting is that O'Neil does a lot of what Mangini did with pre snap movement. Sounds like he may be playing more straight up (at least along the DL) especially if we can land Buckner.
I miss mangini
Reading what thl408 was saying about his use of CBs. Wouldn't it have been nice for JoN to have that Josh Norman dude here. Ce la vie. Plenty of other fish in the sea. Shut down CBs are everywhere.
[ Edited by KeepRabbitsOut on Apr 27, 2016 at 5:47 AM ]
Originally posted by KeepRabbitsOut:
Reading what thl408 was saying about his use of CBs. Wouldn't it have been nice for JoN to have that Josh Norman dude here. Ce la vie. Plenty of other fish in the sea. Shut down CBs are everywhere.

It would have been nice, but it's questionable if he fit the scheme and if he would have been a great corner in a primarily man coverage scheme. Plus I'm not sure he was shut down, that's a title thrown around too much, especially for a guy who only played at that level for one season.
  • cciowa
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Originally posted by pdizo916:
I miss mangini

that makes one of you I respect peoples opinions but if you are serious..... i can not figure it out
Originally posted by philosoraptor:
It would have been nice, but it's questionable if he fit the scheme and if he would have been a great corner in a primarily man coverage scheme. Plus I'm not sure he was shut down, that's a title thrown around too much, especially for a guy who only played at that level for one season.

All good points. I think I was in fantasyland at the thought of what the combination could bring. The price he was paid is crazy anyhoo.

Now looking forward to,the upside of the Wilkerson trade for etc.
  • Jcool
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Originally posted by pdizo916:
I miss mangini

.
  • thl408
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I'll be doing some film work on Jim O'Neil's in the dull part of the offseason, but this article explains well what I've seen so far. It's been posted in other threads, and it also belongs here: http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/5/1/11548550/the-49ers-off-season-so-far-reading-between-the-lines

Below are the relevant snippets from the article that speak directly to JoN's scheme:
O'Neil is an acolyte of the (Rex) Ryan tree. The philosophy and coaching pedigree are different (than Fangio). O'Neil was first coached by Pettine's dad in high school, then remained a good soldier for Pettine under Rex Ryan and followed him to the Bills and Browns. He's a field general, which is the perfect temperament for working under Chip Kelly but, by the same token, I doubt O'Neil would ever actually tinker with the approach he learned under the Pettine/Ryan philosophy. It's what he knows.

Under that "46" philosophy the guiding principle is to aggressively overwhelm the offense with pressure from numbers. Originally six men lined up at of near the line (4 DL, two LB) and two more stood just behind (SS and MLB).

For a Cover One shell to work in a Ryan defense one needs (a) exceptional man corners who can press and (b) some unpredictability about who is actually going to rush the passer and who is going to cover who. No doubt influenced by LeBeau's zone blitz concepts, modern versions of the Ryan defense utilize two main elements to accomplish this goal: hybrid defenders that line up all over the place and play different roles from play to play, and at least one really good corner on an island. At the Jets, Pettine had Darelle Revis. In Cleveland O'Neil had Joe Haden his first year. With Haden, the Browns were a top six defense against the pass

If I had to draw a comparison that all 49er fans know, it's that JoN's scheme is very much like what we've been seeing from ARI over the past few seasons. Crowd the LoS, confuse pass protection, man up on the WRs, lots of blitz packages.

For recent comparisons, Fangio operated out of a Quarters look with two safeties back while running complicated pattern match concepts, rooted in man concepts. Defensive fronts were very static and he looked to confuse the QB by giving him the same presnap look down after down.

Mangini was rooted in zone concepts, while trying to cause confusion in pass protection by mixing up who the 4 pass rushers would be (ex: drop an OLB into coverage, rush an ILB).

JoN is a mix of these two in that he will give various looks to his defensive front, mix who the rushers will be, and bring pressure often - this part is like Mangini. He is rooted in man concepts - this part is Fangio, but he will not use complex pattern matching rules as Fangio. JoN plays some press, but more off coverage from what I've observed from his 2015 CLE team.
My guess is that he wants his blitz pressure to get home, while having his CBs watch the QB dropback. If the QB hurries and throws a pass because pressure got through, then the CBs are able to drive downhill and make a play.

One memorable play that I think fits what JoN envisions as the perfect outcome in his scheme is Bow's pick 6 at the Stick. CBs in off coverage reading the QB drop. Pressure gets through, drive on the throw. The defensive playcall here is Cover0, which is an all out blitz so it's a bit extreme, but the concept in play are right up JoN's alley. This is Fangio's defense, but we all know Fangio was not much of a blitzer.
^^^ Can't wait thl.
Originally posted by Jcool:
Originally posted by pdizo916:
I miss mangini

.

Originally posted by NCommand:
^^^ Can't wait thl.

I don't know. I'm not really a fan of the high risk defense. The better teams thrive on the opponent's offense making mistakes but those teams playing sound defense and NOT taking risks.

The easiest way to combat this type of defense is to run the ball or a QB with escapability. With so many games turning from QB mistakes, I would rather force the QB to see a full field rather than know he has man coverage or a mismatch somewhere.

Since we don't have a lockdown corner, I have a feeling we will get a Mangini results with home games being dominant and road games getting picked apart. Knowing this, we should have traded up for Ramsey.
Originally posted by Joecool:
I don't know. I'm not really a fan of the high risk defense. The better teams thrive on the opponent's offense making mistakes but those teams playing sound defense and NOT taking risks.

The easiest way to combat this type of defense is to run the ball or a QB with escapability. With so many games turning from QB mistakes, I would rather force the QB to see a full field rather than know he has man coverage or a mismatch somewhere.

Since we don't have a lockdown corner, I have a feeling we will get a Mangini results with home games being dominant and road games getting picked apart. Knowing this, we should have traded up for Ramsey.

Unless the Chargers were willing to trade, we would never have been able to trade for Ramsey. Never on the table. Not possible. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/04/29/ravens-tried-to-trade-up-for-ramsey-before-passing-on-tunsil/
  • thl408
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Originally posted by Joecool:
I don't know. I'm not really a fan of the high risk defense. The better teams thrive on the opponent's offense making mistakes but those teams playing sound defense and NOT taking risks.

The easiest way to combat this type of defense is to run the ball or a QB with escapability. With so many games turning from QB mistakes, I would rather force the QB to see a full field rather than know he has man coverage or a mismatch somewhere.

Since we don't have a lockdown corner, I have a feeling we will get a Mangini results with home games being dominant and road games getting picked apart. Knowing this, we should have traded up for Ramsey.

It is definitely a high risk, high reward type of defense and looks to force/dictate the action from the offense. If I had to pick an extreme, I'm with you, I'd rather have a bend don't break, force the offense to string together 10-12 play drives in order to score. Hoping that most offenses are not able to do this. Maybe Chip is so eager to run his offense that he wants the opposing offense to either hurry up and get off the field, or hurry up and score a touchdown.
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