Identifying the "Core Players" Defensive Edition

For the Faithful: I'm going to go over our "core players" on defense. As I believe Tomsula has been dealt a bad hand compared to Harbaugh and he should come back next year. With the atrocious o-line play and qb play, and no real running back healthy I believe Geep hands have been tied as well. I will say that I have faith in Baalke more than the coaching staff, but I don't believe changing coaches every year is the answer to our problem of losing games. We have lost because of a lack of talent after the mass exodus of players in the offseason. Now we all know who those guys are, but let's not downplay how good they were and how much experience and leadership they each brought to the team. I really find it hard to belive that after a bad a season we're having, we are not even one of the five worst teams in the league.

So what do we have? Who are our core players on defense going forward, what role will they fill, and what do we need most? The defense has a lot of pieces, but has been hurt most by an inept offense.

Coaches: Mangini and crew should be back next year. The defense has really settled in, I would like them to play better on the road of course but a tleast they have been down right good at home. Mangini has been very good this year and I think he will be better next year with more players to fill in starting roles.

Needs: PASS RUSHER, MLB, OLB, NT- If Ian Williams does not return, DE- in that order.

Who do we have:

D-Lineman:

Ian Williams: Is he a must resign? I would say yeah since I think the last thing we want to do is have to replace a good starter with so many other needs. He is also only 26 years old. But, do keep in mind, the 49ers have had a knack for finding and plugging in NTs for cheap over the past 5+ years. They all have been better than expected.

Quinton Dial: Dial is part of our core players going forward. While stats are not staggering, he is currently on pace for 40+ tackles and 3.5 sacks. He has improved every year he has been here and seems to be a great run defender.

Arik Armstead: I really liked him coming out as he consistently improved throughout his senior year. He has been extremely productive in limited playing time. He has made some plays behind the line of scrimmage and has been our best d-lineman at rushing the passer. I think a true off season and learning how to use his hands more will help him tremendously.

Linebackers:

Navarro Bowman: The new heart and soul of our team, although it could be argued he was our best player in 2012-2013 when all the other all pro's were still on the team. He has been a man on a mission this year to try and lead by example. He will be even better next year, after being two years removed from injury, and with better players around him.

Aaron Lynch: Although labeled as a knucklehead coming out of college, he has let his play do the talking and has performed great. He would've had a double digit sack season if he did not get injured. He has still has to grow and not give up on plays, but as of now he is easily our best pass rusher.

Eli Harold: He had a little bit of coming out party this past game. Although, he has been getting blown up all year, I think he can rectofy that problem by adding 15-20 of muscle. He can not lose his speed though as it is the best part of his game. Now I think he may always be a rotational piece, but he is definitely a core player for us going forward.

Gerald Hodges: A pleasant surprise for us after coming over from Minnesota. He has great speed and instincts. However, he would be even better for us if he didn't have to start. He would be an ideal back up for both MLB spots and inserted on obvious pass rushing downs. If he is the starter next year, I'm okay with it, but the position could definitely be upgraded as we have to be stronger at the point of attack.

Defensive Backs:

Jaquiski Tartt- This guy is a stud, he hasn't been making the same plays as he made when he first came in, but is a rookie, who has made the adjustment from a small school to PROS. He has all the tools and I think the length of the season may be catching up to him. Next year he could be downright unstoppable. High praise, I know, but he is the real deal. Definitely one of our core players.

Jimmy Ward: Hey hey hey hey…. What do we have here? This guy has made more plays the past few weeks out of all our players on D, including Bowman. He has a swagger to him only rivaled by Bowman at the moment. He has really settled in and has made his mark on D, and as a core player going forward.

Kenneth Acker: He has been solid. He has great speed, and is always right next to the WR in coverage. Once he learns to play the ball better, he will be vastly improved. We have to remember he is really a rookie this year after sitting out all of last season. He has a spot on our D going forward. Also like his willingness to play the run.

Dontae Johnson: I don't know why this guy doesn't start every week, all he does is produce. He is a great match up vs. the bigger wideouts and has been steady vs any wide out. He is part of the core going forward.



Now I know there are quite a few players left off the list of core players that are currently starters. However, I don't know if they are part of our core players going forward.

Defensive Backs:

Eric Reid: He has been one of the sloppiest tacklers on the team this year and his best season was his rookie year when he was playing fearless. Obviously he will be back starting next year, but I don't know if he gets resigned as he seems to have regressed every year since coming into the league.

Bethea: I think with Tartt's development and our needed youth movement, Bethea is expandable and will not be back next year. His deal was set up for us to let him go after two year anyways. He has been solid for us and

Tramaine Brock: He has been very unproductive this year and might actually be our worst corner. However he is always going against the other team's best wideouts. He just always seems to be step behind or out of position. Also his lack of playmaking on 50-50 balls is lacking. However we have had great defenses the past few years with average corners. I just don't feel he is a core player and can be replaced.

Marcus Cromartie: Would love to put this guy as a core player, but I just haven't seen enough of him. Please play the guy as the bloodlines and competitiveness suggest he the attributed to succeed and excel at corner. Love his size as well.

Linebackers:

Michael Whilhote: I think it's time to let him go. He is a pretty good back up, but he is not part of the core going forward and is not up to par of the quality of linebackers we have had over the past 10+ years.

Ahmad Brooks: He is good and was great for a while, but he has been inconsistent, and still seems to be a hot head. Not something we need to have around all our young guys. He has had a fair year with 30 tackles and 5 sacks, but he is not a difference maker anymore and he could be replaced for a lot cheaper. Just like Bethea being let go, it's part of the needed youth movement.

Corey Lemonier: Has been bad since his rookie year which was actually his best year. He should not make the team next year. Peace.

Defensive Line:

Tank Carradine: I don't know what to make of Tank. All I know is if he is not playing and when he is, he's not producing then it's probably best for both parties if we go our separate ways.

Mike Purcell: Would love to put him in with the core players, but just like Cromartie, I just haven't seen enough of him, however he does have a spot on this team going forward.

Glenn Dorsey: He should be back next year, although he can also be replaced. He and Williams make for a great rotation and great depth at the NT position.



Going forward and unlike the offense. The defense has a lot of pieces in place already. We could use an upgrade at any position group IMHO, but there are young players ready to turn the corner in most positions already. The biggest need is Pass rusher. With a legitimate pass rusher opposite Lynch, this defense takes another jump. If a stud corner is added, this defense takes jump. With a playmaking MLB this defense could make a jump. Obviously you don't get all of these in one off season, but one of those three holes needs to be filled to see continued improvement. Also adding another LB/Safety/Rover hybrid player would only let Mangini do more as well. I loved Baalke's past couple of drafts for the D. He has proven he can draft defensive studs and as well as starters and for this reason I suspect our defense will improve. Sorry for the long read but this is the breakdown of our core players going forward. The "core player" Offense edition or lack there will be coming soon.

Nice post. I like the comment about Ward. The dude is backing up some swag.

Not sold in Tartt. If Ian goes I'll be f**king pissed.

Ahmad has 5 sacks this year ? Huh, couldn't tell.

I'm hoping Tank can make the conversion to 3-4 OLB. It'll provide some pass rush depth.
Harold will need to get stronger to become the guy that can dominate 1-on-1 matchups. At least he seems to be understanding his role now.

Originally posted by D-Money:
For the Faithful: I'm going to go over our "core players" on defense. As I believe Tomsula has been dealt a bad hand compared to Harbaugh and he should come back next year. With the atrocious o-line play and qb play, and no real running back healthy I believe Geep hands have been tied as well. I will say that I have faith in Baalke more than the coaching staff, but I don't believe changing coaches every year is the answer to our problem of losing games. We have lost because of a lack of talent after the mass exodus of players in the offseason. Now we all know who those guys are, but let's not downplay how good they were and how much experience and leadership they each brought to the team. I really find it hard to belive that after a bad a season we're having, we are not even one of the five worst teams in the league.

So what do we have? Who are our core players on defense going forward, what role will they fill, and what do we need most? The defense has a lot of pieces, but has been hurt most by an inept offense.

Coaches: Mangini and crew should be back next year. The defense has really settled in, I would like them to play better on the road of course but a tleast they have been down right good at home. Mangini has been very good this year and I think he will be better next year with more players to fill in starting roles.

Needs: PASS RUSHER, MLB, OLB, NT- If Ian Williams does not return, DE- in that order.

Who do we have:

D-Lineman:

Ian Williams: Is he a must resign? I would say yeah since I think the last thing we want to do is have to replace a good starter with so many other needs. He is also only 26 years old. But, do keep in mind, the 49ers have had a knack for finding and plugging in NTs for cheap over the past 5+ years. They all have been better than expected.

Quinton Dial: Dial is part of our core players going forward. While stats are not staggering, he is currently on pace for 40+ tackles and 3.5 sacks. He has improved every year he has been here and seems to be a great run defender.

Arik Armstead: I really liked him coming out as he consistently improved throughout his senior year. He has been extremely productive in limited playing time. He has made some plays behind the line of scrimmage and has been our best d-lineman at rushing the passer. I think a true off season and learning how to use his hands more will help him tremendously.

Linebackers:

Navarro Bowman: The new heart and soul of our team, although it could be argued he was our best player in 2012-2013 when all the other all pro's were still on the team. He has been a man on a mission this year to try and lead by example. He will be even better next year, after being two years removed from injury, and with better players around him.

Aaron Lynch: Although labeled as a knucklehead coming out of college, he has let his play do the talking and has performed great. He would've had a double digit sack season if he did not get injured. He has still has to grow and not give up on plays, but as of now he is easily our best pass rusher.

Eli Harold: He had a little bit of coming out party this past game. Although, he has been getting blown up all year, I think he can rectofy that problem by adding 15-20 of muscle. He can not lose his speed though as it is the best part of his game. Now I think he may always be a rotational piece, but he is definitely a core player for us going forward.

Gerald Hodges: A pleasant surprise for us after coming over from Minnesota. He has great speed and instincts. However, he would be even better for us if he didn't have to start. He would be an ideal back up for both MLB spots and inserted on obvious pass rushing downs. If he is the starter next year, I'm okay with it, but the position could definitely be upgraded as we have to be stronger at the point of attack.

Defensive Backs:

Jaquiski Tartt- This guy is a stud, he hasn't been making the same plays as he made when he first came in, but is a rookie, who has made the adjustment from a small school to PROS. He has all the tools and I think the length of the season may be catching up to him. Next year he could be downright unstoppable. High praise, I know, but he is the real deal. Definitely one of our core players.

Jimmy Ward: Hey hey hey hey…. What do we have here? This guy has made more plays the past few weeks out of all our players on D, including Bowman. He has a swagger to him only rivaled by Bowman at the moment. He has really settled in and has made his mark on D, and as a core player going forward.

Kenneth Acker: He has been solid. He has great speed, and is always right next to the WR in coverage. Once he learns to play the ball better, he will be vastly improved. We have to remember he is really a rookie this year after sitting out all of last season. He has a spot on our D going forward. Also like his willingness to play the run.

Dontae Johnson: I don't know why this guy doesn't start every week, all he does is produce. He is a great match up vs. the bigger wideouts and has been steady vs any wide out. He is part of the core going forward.



Now I know there are quite a few players left off the list of core players that are currently starters. However, I don't know if they are part of our core players going forward.

Defensive Backs:

Eric Reid: He has been one of the sloppiest tacklers on the team this year and his best season was his rookie year when he was playing fearless. Obviously he will be back starting next year, but I don't know if he gets resigned as he seems to have regressed every year since coming into the league.

Bethea: I think with Tartt's development and our needed youth movement, Bethea is expandable and will not be back next year. His deal was set up for us to let him go after two year anyways. He has been solid for us and

Tramaine Brock: He has been very unproductive this year and might actually be our worst corner. However he is always going against the other team's best wideouts. He just always seems to be step behind or out of position. Also his lack of playmaking on 50-50 balls is lacking. However we have had great defenses the past few years with average corners. I just don't feel he is a core player and can be replaced.

Marcus Cromartie: Would love to put this guy as a core player, but I just haven't seen enough of him. Please play the guy as the bloodlines and competitiveness suggest he the attributed to succeed and excel at corner. Love his size as well.

Linebackers:

Michael Whilhote: I think it's time to let him go. He is a pretty good back up, but he is not part of the core going forward and is not up to par of the quality of linebackers we have had over the past 10+ years.

Ahmad Brooks: He is good and was great for a while, but he has been inconsistent, and still seems to be a hot head. Not something we need to have around all our young guys. He has had a fair year with 30 tackles and 5 sacks, but he is not a difference maker anymore and he could be replaced for a lot cheaper. Just like Bethea being let go, it's part of the needed youth movement.

Corey Lemonier: Has been bad since his rookie year which was actually his best year. He should not make the team next year. Peace.

Defensive Line:

Tank Carradine: I don't know what to make of Tank. All I know is if he is not playing and when he is, he's not producing then it's probably best for both parties if we go our separate ways.

Mike Purcell: Would love to put him in with the core players, but just like Cromartie, I just haven't seen enough of him, however he does have a spot on this team going forward.

Glenn Dorsey: He should be back next year, although he can also be replaced. He and Williams make for a great rotation and great depth at the NT position.



Going forward and unlike the offense. The defense has a lot of pieces in place already. We could use an upgrade at any position group IMHO, but there are young players ready to turn the corner in most positions already. The biggest need is Pass rusher. With a legitimate pass rusher opposite Lynch, this defense takes another jump. If a stud corner is added, this defense takes jump. With a playmaking MLB this defense could make a jump. Obviously you don't get all of these in one off season, but one of those three holes needs to be filled to see continued improvement. Also adding another LB/Safety/Rover hybrid player would only let Mangini do more as well. I loved Baalke's past couple of drafts for the D. He has proven he can draft defensive studs and as well as starters and for this reason I suspect our defense will improve. Sorry for the long read but this is the breakdown of our core players going forward. The "core player" Offense edition or lack there will be coming soon.

This is a pretty fair assessment overall. I disagree with the assessment of Tank Carradine and Ahmad Brooks, as I think the only thing that Tank provides, he will now be in a position to do. The man has flashed pass rush ability in limited playing time and by getting down to 260 to 275 pounds, we should see the borderline 1st round talent with his pass rushing ability at outside linebacker. I think if he gets regular snaps, like Aldon Smith did in 2011, he can be a force in 2016. Ahmad Brooks is still a "good" player and though I agree he doesn't factor into our future longterm, mostly because of salary, his replacement isn't on the roster yet. My prediction of success for Tank Carradine's conversion to OLB is all speculation. We could also bring in a free agent or draft a guy (Carl Nassib is my favorite for this role), but it's another project. I'd like Ahmad Brooks back in 2016 as a placeholder for a season until either a rookie, Eli Harold, or Tank Carradine demonstrate they are ready for an expanded role in our defense as a starter. I think with a quality DL in front of him, Brooks can be a force as a playmaker again for that final season.

I honestly think the defense could take a leap to being a top 10 defense again much quicker than the offense could, mainly because they have more pieces in place. I also think if we play free agency and the draft right, we can add those those players to help us make the leap in one off season. There will be 3-4 DEs available that we can take a run at. Having Quinton Dial as a rotational player, Glen Dorsey backing up at NT, and bringing back Ian Williams would reflect the newfound strength of the DL. Having an extra pass rusher opposite of Aaron Lynch as you mentioned would not only improve the pass rush, but also help our secondary because we have some safeties that actually look to make a play on the ball. If Kenneth Acker gets on the same page, look out.

BodhiPaddlesOut: First off thanks, it took some time to put it together. However, I am surprised you are not sold on Tartt. I thought he would be a unanimous decision as far as core player going forward. Can I ask what is keeping you from putting him in that group? I believe he is starting to wear down a little both mentally and physically, but will be even better next year. He has shown a knack for making plays when he has played. Him and Ward playing together previously is a huge plus IMHO.

Originally posted by LifelongNiner:
This is a pretty fair assessment overall. I disagree with the assessment of Tank Carradine and Ahmad Brooks, as I think the only thing that Tank provides, he will now be in a position to do. The man has flashed pass rush ability in limited playing time and by getting down to 260 to 275 pounds, we should see the borderline 1st round talent with his pass rushing ability at outside linebacker. I think if he gets regular snaps, like Aldon Smith did in 2011, he can be a force in 2016. Ahmad Brooks is still a "good" player and though I agree he doesn't factor into our future longterm, mostly because of salary, his replacement isn't on the roster yet. My prediction of success for Tank Carradine's conversion to OLB is all speculation. We could also bring in a free agent or draft a guy (Carl Nassib is my favorite for this role), but it's another project. I'd like Ahmad Brooks back in 2016 as a placeholder for a season until either a rookie, Eli Harold, or Tank Carradine demonstrate they are ready for an expanded role in our defense as a starter. I think with a quality DL in front of him, Brooks can be a force as a playmaker again for that final season.

I honestly think the defense could take a leap to being a top 10 defense again much quicker than the offense could, mainly because they have more pieces in place. I also think if we play free agency and the draft right, we can add those those players to help us make the leap in one off season. There will be 3-4 DEs available that we can take a run at. Having Quinton Dial as a rotational player, Glen Dorsey backing up at NT, and bringing back Ian Williams would reflect the newfound strength of the DL. Having an extra pass rusher opposite of Aaron Lynch as you mentioned would not only improve the pass rush, but also help our secondary because we have some safeties that actually look to make a play on the ball. If Kenneth Acker gets on the same page, look out.

Right on Lifelong:
I just feel Carradine is a natural 4-3 end. He had the knee injury, then he seemed to get too heavy- muscle wise, and just has not got on the field. I mean we are going on year 4 with this guy in 2016. I'm not against bringing him back and could hope he would be a great pass rushing olb, but at a certain point a player has to perform and he just hasn't done that yet.
Brooks is just a ticking timebomb if you ask me, production wise he has been steady but not spectacular. However, his constant run in with the coaches, personal fouls, and off field incidents makes me want to let him go. I just think he can be replaced production wise and a better leader can be brought in to man that position.
Unfortunately, we have tens of millions of dollars in cap space this year and the FA market is the weakest I've seen in years. I mean if Wilkerson or V. Miller are not franchised, then you pour money on one to get them in here, but besides that I think our roster is pretty even with any FA that could be brought in, not much in terms of better production/potential. The draft is where we have to build our D back up.

Nice job. I pretty much agree except I think it's way too early to call Harold, Acker, or Hodges core players. I need to see a lot more out of them 3 especially Harold.

I agree Brooks is on the decline. Next year he'll be a 3 sack guy. Still decent vs the run but he's not helping this defense much. His name is called for penalties more than for anything else. As for Dorsey he's just getting old and having major injury issues. Time to draft younger and hungrier replacement

Originally posted by lamontb:
Nice job. I pretty much agree except I think it's way too early to call Harold, Acker, or Hodges core players. I need to see a lot more out of them 3 especially Harold.

I agree with needing to see Hodges more, as he seems to be a keeper, however the sample size is so small.
Acker has been more than serviceable, he has gotten his hands on a lot of 50-50 balls and he has great speed. I think he has been very underrated all year.
I can also see why you would wait on claiming Harold a core player. However, he has a great first step, speed, and, instincts. The one part of his game that's missing is strength. Luckily for us you don't have to teach strength and it can be built up over the course of an offseason in the NFL. I expect the next few games will give us a better idea about all 3 going forward.

Excellent post.

Originally posted by shmuck:


Excellent post.

Thanks shmuck, appreciate it.

Solid post man!

Originally posted by D-Money:

BodhiPaddlesOut: First off thanks, it took some time to put it together. However, I am surprised you are not sold on Tartt. I thought he would be a unanimous decision as far as core player going forward. Can I ask what is keeping you from putting him in that group? I believe he is starting to wear down a little both mentally and physically, but will be even better next year. He has shown a knack for making plays when he has played. Him and Ward playing together previously is a huge plus IMHO.

His run defense has been impressive but he's pretty underwhelming in pass coverage. That goes in line with a lot of draft coverage on him, and he's coming from a smaller school, but I'd like to see some more growth before I'm too excited.

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Solid post man!

Thanks Vegas

Paddles- I can see where your coming from concerning Harold.

Lost me at...."As I believe Tomsula has been dealt a bad hand compared to Harbaugh and he should come back next year. With the atrocious o-line play and qb play, and no real running back healthy I believe Geep hands have been tied as well. I will say that I have faith in Baalke" 

The bolded . However i dont have much of an issue w the core, clear the deck of the rest(wishful thinking).