Week 5 2015: Thoughts after rewatching the game... | Page 4

Marvin49 · 2015-10-12T10:12:00-07:00

This is getting old really fast... 1) Kap: Still to me looked a bit timid early and they built in some throws to build his confidence, but he really started to look more like himself out there later in the game. Now the G-Men have had some issues with pass D this season so I don't want to make out that Kap was setting the world on fire, but he looks like an NFL QB last night and that IS a step up from the last few weeks. There were even some pretty nice touch passes in there. Tough to make a big deal out of it, but it was certainly encouraging by comparison to what we've seen recently. 2) Pass D: Oh my dear lord. I...I...I need to collect my thoughts on this one. Youth? Scheme? Personnel? All of the above? 3) O-Line: Showed some improvement in pass pro but still getting Hyde hit WAY too often in the backfield. He shares some blame there too tho and I'll get to that in a bit. 4) Bowman: I love the guy, but he isn't close to 100%. I don't know that he ever will be the same guy he was. I've been noting it after the last few games, but this time the Giants saw it and exploited it on a few occasions. Hard for me to say this, but in his present state he is becoming a liability. I'm not saying take him off the field because he needs the work to get back and they really don't have a better option anyway, but teams might begin to pick on him with speedy backs in the pass game. He just can't get there. 5) Hyde: It isn't all his fault as I noted above, but the dude has to stop dancing sometimes and just take what's there. Sometimes there's nothing, but that's better than a 5-7 yard loss. I know your spin highlight on Monday Night Football was great and all, but that won't work on every play. Its hard to know when to tell him to stop tho as he did turn one big loss into a 4-5 yard gain...but sometimes man you just need to put your head down and go. 6) Lynch: Becoming a force at OLB...if only they had a great OLB on the other side to bookend and really create havoc. Wait, didn't we have one? Sigh. 7) Mangini (and more on pass D...it deserves two headings, don't ya think?): As I've said before, What made the 49ers so good against the upper echelon of QBs in the NFL over the past several years was the ability to rush 4, drop 7 and still get pressure AND stop the run. They actually played a simple scheme and played it very well with a host of very good players. All of that is gone. Now they get little pressure, blitz to create, disguise coverage's....and get roasted. Is it because they have youth making mistakes? Is the scheme too complex? Is it just bad scheme? Are the players simply not good enough. I wish I had answers, but I don't. They are getting embarrassed in coverage right now. It is worth nothing the QBs they've lost to though. Big Ben, Palmer, Rodgers and E. Manning. All are/were (before injury) having pretty good years throwing the ball. That ain't an excuse, but it is worth pointing out. 8) Tiller/Devey: Am I the only one who's wondering what the hell is up with Brandon Thomas? Why isn't he even getting a look and the team activates a practice squad player to play ahead of him. 9) Bush: Sigh. Man that guy is fragile. Hayne was serviceable in small chunks, but as I said before, Mike Davis needs to be up on gamedays. I know some here aren't his biggest fan, but I think the kid had potential. Its not all his fault that he's getting hit in the backfield. 10) Expectation: 5 games in and my expectations of the season are beginning to take shape. It ain't over, but the fat lady is warming up. We've got 11 games to find out who is and who is not going to be a part of this team moving forward. Coaches, Players...everyone.

Oct 12, 2015 at 11:48 AM

#46

tohara3
Veteran
Posts: 31,182

Originally posted by All22:

Boldin still our best WR, Torry smith is an expensive decoy.

Celeck should be starting TE.

Tory Smith did a great job last night and drew 2-3 penalties that gave us first downs.

Vernon is done. Bush is done.

Move Ellington into Bush's scatback slot and promote DeAndrew White and Patton up one spot at WR.

Play almost 100% man-to-man. Start DJ on the outside.

Agree 100% with this here

Oct 12, 2015 at 11:53 AM

#47

Sourball
Veteran
Posts: 2,279

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by thl408:
Haven't had a chance to re-watch the game and may not until the coaches film is out, but I'm fairly certain most of NYG's chunk yards came versus zone coverage. I did rewatch the final drive and the 49ers were in man coverage so Mangini did make an adjustment. So, playing zone, they get torched, playing man they get torched with Eli isolating Vareen vs Tartt. Can't win.

Three road games and Mangini's squad is getting lit up like never before. This is not the same squad Fangio had, not even close, but I didn't think it would go from top 5 to bottom 5.

Glad Kap had a solid game. The team needed it. Not sure how much moral victories count towards the morale of the team, but at least we should feel better about Kap even if for 1 week against the worst ranked pass defense coming into the game (yards allowed). He did look shaky to open the game though. Not sure if no one was open or what.

This team just can't put together a full effort outside of opening night. Last week, the defense showed up and the offense didn't. Last night was the opposite. I hope the team doesn't start to tune out the coaches.

What I liked in what I saw in Kap was that he actually put some touch and good location on a few of his passes late in the game. Two passes to Boldin.

Ironically, the big flanker screen to Torrey and the following pretty pass to Boldin were good plays, but in the long run happened too fast and didn't burn enough clock. They scored too quickly and gave Eli time to score the game winner.

Agreed. But unfortunately with this offense, one can't assume that they can score at will when in the redzone.

Oct 12, 2015 at 11:54 AM

#48

southpaw854
Veteran
Posts: 73

More Armstead please....... from Niners Nation post - Armstead has been one of the 49ers more productive defensive linemen, rankings second among 3-4 defensive ends with 50+ snaps in PFF's pass rush productivity.

http://www.ninersnation.com/2015/10/12/9505655/49ers-snap-count-vs-giants-eli-harold-arik-armstead-supplant-corey

Oct 12, 2015 at 11:56 AM

#49

DASeiler49
Veteran
Posts: 2,438

Originally posted by susweel:
Thanks marv putting up the real thread instead of the cheap knockoff thats put up as soon as the game ends.

This is really going to far. If you don't like the other threads then ignore them and let them be. I've never liked a bully, please ease up.

Dan

Oct 12, 2015 at 11:57 AM

#50

Sourball
Veteran
Posts: 2,279

Originally posted by NeeJ49er:
Armstead, Carradine and Lynch need to be in the game at the same time on obvious passing downs, we're not getting any pressure on the QB when Dial and Williams are in on 3rd down ...Lynch is pretty much a one man pass rush at times and the only legit pass rusher, Armstead and Carradine need to get those snaps when we need to get after the QB

Add Purcell in there and I would think they could get some good pressure across the line

Oct 12, 2015 at 11:57 AM

#51

ayleswbj11
Veteran
Posts: 2,090

After watching again, Kaep literally has to guys to throw 2. Smith an Boldin, yea Celek gets the occasional reception but he's not suddenly turning into Gary Barnidge. There not one option except maybe Ellington who they won't even put out there. He had 2 snaps last night!

Watching OBJ, Randle an even Harris be able to get open at will was so disheartening. We have to address . We need a top flight star receiver.

Aker is taking his lumps , wait I take that back he is getting completely pummeled out there. I give Reaser a shot. Heck I give him a shot just because he related to Sean Taylor.

Let Caradine rush from the edge what can it hurt no one else besides Lynch can do anything. I know we drafted Lemonier to rush the passer but he's actually pretty good against the run. As a matter of fact he reminds me a lot of Manny Lawson. Who ended up being a great run stopper and setting the edge an never developed into a great pass rusher.

What can we do? Make some major changes on D just as we did on offense. We are stuck with this staff , I'm gonna live with it. May as well just go for it! Embrace what's happened. Let it play out and see if the young guys can develop despite the collective efforts of the coaches.

Oct 12, 2015 at 12:16 PM

#52

Lutch57
Veteran
Posts: 703

It comes down to defensive scheme. Justin Smith was playing with no shoulders last year, Patrick Willis was not a good player. Brock is better than any of the corners we had, man for man on defense its a wash at the very least. And we won the game 16-10 and the offense was terrible in that game.

You cant play soft zone vs the better Qbs in the league they will recognize the space in the middle of the field and get rid of the ball right away, its even worse if you zone blitz. Even if the Dline was getting pressure it wouldn't have mattered. Eli was three steps back and ball out to a wide open receiver every time....just like Big Ben, just like Palmer. That jailbreak blitz was a joke. This isn't Madden wtf are you doing? Weve been leaving the middle of the field wide open, oh lets call a jail break blitz and leave the middle of the field wide open, Eli wont figure it out. WTF?

Do you really think Eric Reid and Bethea two players that are pro bowl talents just don't know how to play anymore? And Bowman may have lost a step but he still chased down OBJ in the open field from behind. Scheme puts your players in the position to make plays and offensively was better this week, this team has been coached off the field for four games straight. I was one of the optimists, overly optimistic but this coaching staff is out of their depth esp Mangini.

[ Edited by Lutch57 on Oct 12, 2015 at 12:17 PM ]

Oct 12, 2015 at 12:19 PM

#53

NCommand
Hall of Fame
Posts: 123,365

Originally posted by Lutch57:
It comes down to defensive scheme. Justin Smith was playing with no shoulders last year, Patrick Willis was not a good player. Brock is better than any of the corners we had, man for man on defense its a wash at the very least. And we won the game 16-10 and the offense was terrible in that game.

You cant play soft zone vs the better Qbs in the league they will recognize the space in the middle of the field and get rid of the ball right away, its even worse if you zone blitz. Even if the Dline was getting pressure it wouldn't have mattered. Eli was three steps back and ball out to a wide open receiver every time....just like Big Ben, just like Palmer. That jailbreak blitz was a joke. This isn't Madden wtf are you doing? Weve been leaving the middle of the field wide open, oh lets call a jail break blitz and leave the middle of the field wide open, Eli wont figure it out. WTF?

Do you really think Eric Reid and Bethea two players that are pro bowl talents just don't know how to play anymore? And Bowman may have lost a step but he still chased down OBJ in the open field from behind. Scheme puts your players in the position to make plays and offensively was better this week, this team has been coached off the field for four games straight. I was one of the optimists, overly optimistic but this coaching staff is out of their depth esp Mangini.

Oct 12, 2015 at 12:22 PM

#54

Stud
Member
Posts: 5,264

Looks like Marvin49 will never be satisfied with Carlos Hyde. But not surprising, just a short while ago Marvin was saying Hyde didn't impress him. To each their own.

Oct 12, 2015 at 12:22 PM

#55

Marvin49
Hall of Fame
Posts: 16,506

Originally posted by All22:

Originally posted by HearstFan:

BOWMAN - He does look a little stiff - but I don't think he is by any means much less than he was in the past. To me it looks like he is also compensating for Wilhoite. There were a couple of plays where they seemed to attack him with two coverage options to get him to hesitate last night. Wilhoite is terrible in coverage and reacting after a catch - bad angles. We are seeing why the Willis - Bowman combination was so powerful - both guys could cover.

I think people are overreacting about Bowman. That TD at the end was the same play that GB and BAL scored on us with in the playoffs a few years back.

That wasn't the play that concerned me. It was the first TD and several other plays throughout the game.

On the final play he was in position. It required a great throw and catch. Can't defend that.

Oct 12, 2015 at 12:23 PM

#56

philosoraptor
Veteran
Posts: 4,318

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by thl408:
Haven't had a chance to re-watch the game and may not until the coaches film is out, but I'm fairly certain most of NYG's chunk yards came versus zone coverage. I did rewatch the final drive and the 49ers were in man coverage so Mangini did make an adjustment. So, playing zone, they get torched, playing man they get torched with Eli isolating Vareen vs Tartt. Can't win.

Three road games and Mangini's squad is getting lit up like never before. This is not the same squad Fangio had, not even close, but I didn't think it would go from top 5 to bottom 5.

Glad Kap had a solid game. The team needed it. Not sure how much moral victories count towards the morale of the team, but at least we should feel better about Kap even if for 1 week against the worst ranked pass defense coming into the game (yards allowed). He did look shaky to open the game though. Not sure if no one was open or what.

This team just can't put together a full effort outside of opening night. Last week, the defense showed up and the offense didn't. Last night was the opposite. I hope the team doesn't start to tune out the coaches.

What I liked in what I saw in Kap was that he actually put some touch and good location on a few of his passes late in the game. Two passes to Boldin.

Ironically, the big flanker screen to Torrey and the following pretty pass to Boldin were good plays, but in the long run happened too fast and didn't burn enough clock. They scored too quickly and gave Eli time to score the game winner.
They did leave too much clock for NYG, but I'm not about to fault the offense for that. For a struggling offense, any score is a good score. The over the shoulder pass he dropped into Boldin was a beauty. Really hope this game was a slump buster for Kap.

Just like a fat chick when one is in a poon drought. A poor pass defense can be just what the doctor ordered for kap to get his confidence up and start playing like he has in the past. Lets hope he can start to play with consistency. Which is the key for him.

Oct 12, 2015 at 12:24 PM

#57

Lutch57
Veteran
Posts: 703

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by thl408:
Haven't had a chance to re-watch the game and may not until the coaches film is out, but I'm fairly certain most of NYG's chunk yards came versus zone coverage. I did rewatch the final drive and the 49ers were in man coverage so Mangini did make an adjustment. So, playing zone, they get torched, playing man they get torched with Eli isolating Vareen vs Tartt. Can't win.

Three road games and Mangini's squad is getting lit up like never before. This is not the same squad Fangio had, not even close, but I didn't think it would go from top 5 to bottom 5.

Glad Kap had a solid game. The team needed it. Not sure how much moral victories count towards the morale of the team, but at least we should feel better about Kap even if for 1 week against the worst ranked pass defense coming into the game (yards allowed). He did look shaky to open the game though. Not sure if no one was open or what.

This team just can't put together a full effort outside of opening night. Last week, the defense showed up and the offense didn't. Last night was the opposite. I hope the team doesn't start to tune out the coaches.

What I liked in what I saw in Kap was that he actually put some touch and good location on a few of his passes late in the game. Two passes to Boldin.

Ironically, the big flanker screen to Torrey and the following pretty pass to Boldin were good plays, but in the long run happened too fast and didn't burn enough clock. They scored too quickly and gave Eli time to score the game winner.
They did leave too much clock for NYG, but I'm not about to fault the offense for that. For a struggling offense, any score is a good score. The over the shoulder pass he dropped into Boldin was a beauty. Really hope this game was a slump buster for Kap.
Just like a fat chick when one is in a poon drought. A poor pass defense can be just what the doctor ordered for kap to get his confidence up and start playing like he has in the past. Lets hope he can start to play with consistency. Which is the key for him.

Poon Drought over!!

Oct 12, 2015 at 12:25 PM

#58

Marvin49
Hall of Fame
Posts: 16,506

Originally posted by Stud:
Looks like Marvin49 will never be satisfied with Carlos Hyde. But not surprising, just a short while ago Marvin was saying Hyde didn't impress him. To each their own.

um....what?

Oct 12, 2015 at 12:27 PM

#59

philosoraptor
Veteran
Posts: 4,318

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Stud:
Looks like Marvin49 will never be satisfied with Carlos Hyde. But not surprising, just a short while ago Marvin was saying Hyde didn't impress him. To each their own.

um....what?

Yeah, That doesnt make sense. I thought your concern was valid. Hyde does need to play more down hill at times.

Oct 12, 2015 at 12:28 PM

#60

Marvin49
Hall of Fame
Posts: 16,506

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

Originally posted by Marvin49:

Originally posted by Stud:
Looks like Marvin49 will never be satisfied with Carlos Hyde. But not surprising, just a short while ago Marvin was saying Hyde didn't impress him. To each their own.

um....what?

Yeah, That doesnt make sense. I thought your concern was valid. Hyde does need to play more down hill at times.

...and I don't recall ever saying he didn't impress me, let alone being "recently". I have criticisms of a player I actually like quite a bit, just as I had criticisms of OTHER players I liked.