Niners D will keep us in games

no pass rush = torched.

3-13

Originally posted by Hitman49:
This is not the 2011 2012 2013 Niner D. We cannot rely on this D to bail us out this year...

As good as they looked in preseason, during the course of a regular game they will wear us down on D. The offense NEEDS to step up. The D will be able to limit teams but ultimately the offense has to score points.

Originally posted by ChazBoner:
no pass rush = torched.

3-13

Mangini's blitzes are gonna have to be called at the right time, or else the game is over. I can already see blitzes hurting the niners.

Originally posted by the_dynasty:

hOriginally posted by defenderDX:
the defense has kept us in the game for the past 4 seasons and beyond. (unless you exclude the 2nd half of the 2012 season)

Why would you exclude second half of 2012 season ? out of 8 games post-bye, defense held offenses to under 300 total yards in 5 out of 8 contests. we held the Saints to 290 total yards. The only bad games for defense was the Pats game and Rams game.
Playoffs were a different beast, of course

i'm tired of always being known for our defense.

why ? defense wins games and championships. a great defense scares the best of offenses.

I want the offense to be able to look like the Saints, Packers, Patriots.

all those teams have Hall of Fame bound QBs. and Saints havent been that good lately anyway. Saints with a crappy defense havent made the offs two out of 3 years in a weak NFC south, and got embarrassed in 2010 and 2011 playoffs. Saints havent been able to do much in playoffs ever since they got Graham and instead of letting Brees spread it out like in 2009 they started to forcefeeding him. The only time they made the offs in last 3 years is when...drumroll...they had a top 5 defense.

a great defense with meh offense will win most of our time, and it will lose to some elite offenses. elite offense with meh defense will run into a wall way more.

Because the defense fell off at the 2nd half of the 2012 season.... we had to come back as an offense multiple times to win to get in the playoffs and WIN playoff games..

how recent did you start watching? I'm not saying I DON'T like having a beast of a defense, but I want the OFFENSE to be the beasts for once. You aren't understanding what I'm saying; I want to be able to shred other defenses with our offense like we did in 2012. Every time we got behind that year with Kap under center I never flinched. Not even when we were down like 20+ points at halftime in the superbowl. Because we had been doing it vs. the Packers that year coming from behind, and the Falcons in the playoffs. Unfortunately we all know how the superbowl turned out, but point is I want to see the offense get back to that.

Maybe I didn't phrase what I was saying well enough, but I am tired of the defense always bailing out inept offensive play when we have shown (with the same quarterback) that we can strike JUST as much fear into opposing defenses like how the defense has struck in opposing offenses.

Recent history shows teams with quality defenses tend to eek out more close games. The Saints high powered offense got them 7-9, and they are re-committing themselves to running the ball and getting better on D. Meanwhile teams like the Texans, Bills, Cardinals quietly had winning records with meh offenses, but good/playmaking defense.

On the other hand history shows high-octane offenses led by elite QBs make the playoffs with more regularity. Elite QB is your golden ticket to the playoffs, unless the defense is complete garbage.

Our defense is the better unit as of now, paired with an effective running game, we can win some ballgames. In no way am I content with our passing offense, we need to improve there.

Offense and Defense are equally important when all is said and done. Both need to be good.

Originally posted by defenderDX:
Because the defense fell off at the 2nd half of the 2012 season.... we had to come back as an offense multiple times to win to get in the playoffs and WIN playoff games..

No, defense did not fall off in second half of 2012. defense first 8 games allowed 271 total yards per game.
second 8 games: 283 yards per game, and without the pats game (the only game where it got to s**t, mainly because of built up lead and playing prevent) they allowed 250 yards per game

that's not 'falling off', sorry.

how recent did you start watching?

how recent did I start watching what ? the NFL and the 49ers ? over 20 years, but what does that have to do with anything ?

I'm not saying I DON'T like having a beast of a defense, but I want the OFFENSE to be the beasts for once. You aren't understanding what I'm saying; I want to be able to shred other defenses with our offense like we did in 2012.Every time we got behind that year with Kap under center I never flinched. Not even when we were down like 20+ points at halftime in the superbowl. Because we had been doing it vs. the Packers that year coming from behind, and the Falcons in the playoffs. Unfortunately we all know how the superbowl turned out, but point is I want to see the offense get back to that.

Maybe I didn't phrase what I was saying well enough, but I am tired of the defense always bailing out inept offensive play when we have shown (with the same quarterback) that we can strike JUST as much fear into opposing defenses like how the defense has struck in opposing offenses.

well if you want a scary running game, I think its very possible - CK7 still has really good legs, Hyde looks fresh.

but not passing game- it's pretty hard to have an extremely potent passing offense AND an amazing defense. great defenses usually build off a conservative passing game and a great running game.

Originally posted by the_dynasty:

Originally posted by defenderDX:
Because the defense fell off at the 2nd half of the 2012 season.... we had to come back as an offense multiple times to win to get in the playoffs and WIN playoff games..

No, defense did not fall off in second half of 2012. defense first 8 games allowed 271 total yards per game.
second 8 games: 283 yards per game, and without the pats game (the only game where it got to s**t, mainly because of built up lead and playing prevent) they allowed 250 yards per game

that's not 'falling off', sorry.

how recent did you start watching?

how recent did I start watching what ? the NFL and the 49ers ? over 20 years, but what does that have to do with anything ?

I'm not saying I DON'T like having a beast of a defense, but I want the OFFENSE to be the beasts for once. You aren't understanding what I'm saying; I want to be able to shred other defenses with our offense like we did in 2012.Every time we got behind that year with Kap under center I never flinched. Not even when we were down like 20+ points at halftime in the superbowl. Because we had been doing it vs. the Packers that year coming from behind, and the Falcons in the playoffs. Unfortunately we all know how the superbowl turned out, but point is I want to see the offense get back to that.

Maybe I didn't phrase what I was saying well enough, but I am tired of the defense always bailing out inept offensive play when we have shown (with the same quarterback) that we can strike JUST as much fear into opposing defenses like how the defense has struck in opposing offenses.

well if you want a scary running game, I think its very possible - CK7 still has really good legs, Hyde looks fresh.

but not passing game- it's pretty hard to have an extremely potent passing offense AND an amazing defense. great defenses usually build off a conservative passing game and a great running game.

Clearly you didn't watch a single game in 2012 by forcefully disagreeing and using that statistic to back up your point. Justin Smith was hurt, aldon Smith was hurt. Those are FACTS. Go back and watch the games where we got torched in the playoffs had to rely in the offense to bring us back. That's why I asked when you started watching because the "yards allowed"average doesn't tell the whole story.

Go refresh your memory and re watch every game after kap took under center and get back to me.

The offense CARRIED us into the super bowl. And brought us back to win the NFC divisional game AND the NFC championship

And we did it PASSING

IOriginally posted by defenderDX:


Clearly you didn't watch a single game in 2012

I've watched every single snap (and I mean EVERY.SINGLE.SNAP) of every 49ers game dating back to 2004. I've rewatched each snap from the Harbaugh multiple times on all-22 film as well. Clearly, you like to jump to baseless conclusions for no reason whatsoever.

Justin Smith was hurt, aldon Smith was hurt.

Justin Smith got hurt in the pats game, which was 5th out of second 8 games. Aldon Smith played through his injury which wasnt even disclosed till after the year was over. Again, the defense did fine in the 2nd half of the regular season performance-wise, and it did fine in the Packers game. The three games it went to crap - Pats game when spotted a big lead; Falcons and Ravens game- they were able to hold off the offenses in the second half

Go back and watch the games where we got torched in the playoffs had to rely in the offense to bring us back. That's why I asked when you started watching because the "yards allowed"average doesn't tell the whole story.

The offense CARRIED us into the super bowl. And brought us back to win the NFC divisional game AND the NFC championship

I dont need to watch the games again - I rewatched them multiple times. You thinking I did not watch the games because something I said does not match your understanding, is disrespectful and childish.

the offense worked off running the ball, easily. no team was afraid of our passing. CK7 and the run game destroyed the Packers for 350+ rush yards, and we averaged like 150 rush yards per game even without that game. and we were able to pass the ball a bit on some weaker defenses in Pats, Falcons and Ravens, the latter two playing softer after spotting a big lead. Again, no team was as afraid of our passing as people are of prolific passing offenses. our passing, mostly out of play action, was a huge complement to the run game, but it was nonetheless a complement.

we never were a passing team that instilled fear in defenses, sorry. we had one 300 yard passing game in 2012, and that was with smith in a pure laugher against the bills. we've had only two games of even attempting more than 30 passes with kap, and those were both losses (to rams and hags)

the fact is, the more passing attempts we've had, the more likely we were to lose in 2012. the record was 1-4 in games with attempts equal or higher than 30, with the lone win being a detroit game in which alex smith started

so again, we never, ever were even close to the proverbial saints, patriots or packers in terms of passing the ball. teams feared the run, teams feared kap on the run - absolutely. no team feared our passing game, which was decent- but not close to elite passing game

Originally posted by the_dynasty:
I've watched every single snap (and I mean EVERY.SINGLE.SNAP) of every 49ers game dating back to 2004. I've rewatched each snap from the Harbaugh multiple times on all-22 film as well. Clearly, you like to jump to baseless conclusions for no reason whatsoever.
Justin Smith got hurt in the pats game, which was 5th out of second 8 games. Aldon Smith played through his injury which wasnt even disclosed till after the year was over. Again, the defense did fine in the 2nd half of the regular season performance-wise, and it did fine in the Packers game. The three games it went to crap - Pats game when spotted a big lead; Falcons and Ravens game- they were able to hold off the offenses in the second half

I dont need to watch the games again - I rewatched them multiple times. You thinking I did not watch the games because something I said does not match your understanding, is disrespectful and childish.

the offense worked off running the ball, easily. no team was afraid of our passing. CK7 and the run game destroyed the Packers for 350+ rush yards, and we averaged like 150 rush yards per game even without that game. and we were able to pass the ball a bit on some weaker defenses in Pats, Falcons and Ravens, the latter two playing softer after spotting a big lead. Again, no team was as afraid of our passing as people are of prolific passing offenses. our passing, mostly out of play action, was a huge complement to the run game, but it was nonetheless a complement.

we never were a passing team that instilled fear in defenses, sorry. we had one 300 yard passing game in 2012, and that was with smith in a pure laugher against the bills. we've had only two games of even attempting more than 30 passes with kap, and those were both losses (to rams and hags)

the fact is, the more passing attempts we've had, the more likely we were to lose in 2012. the record was 1-4 in games with attempts equal or higher than 30, with the lone win being a detroit game in which alex smith started

so again, we never, ever were even close to the proverbial saints, patriots or packers in terms of passing the ball. teams feared the run, teams feared kap on the run - absolutely. no team feared our passing game, which was decent- but not close to elite passing game

If you watched every SNAP from that season you wouldn't need to use their average yards allowed statistic to back up your point, sorry.

Defense at the end of that season was NOT the defense that CARRIED us into the playoffs in 2011. Kap and the offense was for 2012.

Kap not only ran with his legs but he passed beating them. Our passing game was on point. Since then he's been criticized for "regressing". I'm not sure where you come from with being on the defenses jock so hard. Everyone on this board will tell you the same thing. Go re watch every snap again. Kaps average passing was also the highest it was in his career THAT year.

Our defense wasn't the reason we made a run in 2012 and reached the superbowl, sorry, the offense was.

Forget not matching up to 2011, 2012, and 2013. We won't even be as good as the 2014 unit that gave up 23+ points a game. There's no depth anymore except maybe on the line,so one injury to someone like Bowman or Reid could completely doom us.

Then, let's remember that the defense is going to be on the field a ton more than before; this offense looks rotten right now, and even if it's better, the downside to "tempo" means less wind time for the D (and less time for keep away from great offenses like Green Bay - Harbaugh may have had his play clock issues, but he built that offense to keep 2011 Aaron Rodgers OFF the field...). On that list point, I'm hoping that Kap is starting the audible process around 15 on the play clock, that would be reasonable.

As good as the defense was, they couldn't get Denver off the field so our offense could get anything going

Originally posted by SofaKing:
Recent history shows teams with quality defenses tend to eek out more close games. The Saints high powered offense got them 7-9, and they are re-committing themselves to running the ball and getting better on D. Meanwhile teams like the Texans, Bills, Cardinals quietly had winning records with meh offenses, but good/playmaking defense.

On the other hand history shows high-octane offenses led by elite QBs make the playoffs with more regularity. Elite QB is your golden ticket to the playoffs, unless the defense is complete garbage.

Our defense is the better unit as of now, paired with an effective running game, we can win some ballgames. In no way am I content with our passing offense, we need to improve there.

Offense and Defense are equally important when all is said and done. Both need to be good.

Totally agree. Each year Kaep has weapons. Whether it was Stevie Johnson, Boldin, Vernon, Crabtree, Moss, etc. Kaep still wasn't able to take advantage of those guys. This year he has Torrey and Jerome Simpson who are legit fast guys and have not once in preseason connected. Its very much a concern. Blame the OL if you want to but it'll be interesting to see if Kaeps decision making has improved from the offseason, that is the huge thing for me. Can he read the defense and change to a more suitable play or change the line protection? Thats something he should have a grasp of already but have not yet seen that. You have to think this is a make it or break it year for Kaep, especially with the friendly contract he signed.

Originally posted by defenderDX:

Originally posted by the_dynasty:
I've watched every single snap (and I mean EVERY.SINGLE.SNAP) of every 49ers game dating back to 2004. I've rewatched each snap from the Harbaugh multiple times on all-22 film as well. Clearly, you like to jump to baseless conclusions for no reason whatsoever.
Justin Smith got hurt in the pats game, which was 5th out of second 8 games. Aldon Smith played through his injury which wasnt even disclosed till after the year was over. Again, the defense did fine in the 2nd half of the regular season performance-wise, and it did fine in the Packers game. The three games it went to crap - Pats game when spotted a big lead; Falcons and Ravens game- they were able to hold off the offenses in the second half

I dont need to watch the games again - I rewatched them multiple times. You thinking I did not watch the games because something I said does not match your understanding, is disrespectful and childish.

the offense worked off running the ball, easily. no team was afraid of our passing. CK7 and the run game destroyed the Packers for 350+ rush yards, and we averaged like 150 rush yards per game even without that game. and we were able to pass the ball a bit on some weaker defenses in Pats, Falcons and Ravens, the latter two playing softer after spotting a big lead. Again, no team was as afraid of our passing as people are of prolific passing offenses. our passing, mostly out of play action, was a huge complement to the run game, but it was nonetheless a complement.

we never were a passing team that instilled fear in defenses, sorry. we had one 300 yard passing game in 2012, and that was with smith in a pure laugher against the bills. we've had only two games of even attempting more than 30 passes with kap, and those were both losses (to rams and hags)

the fact is, the more passing attempts we've had, the more likely we were to lose in 2012. the record was 1-4 in games with attempts equal or higher than 30, with the lone win being a detroit game in which alex smith started

so again, we never, ever were even close to the proverbial saints, patriots or packers in terms of passing the ball. teams feared the run, teams feared kap on the run - absolutely. no team feared our passing game, which was decent- but not close to elite passing game

If you watched every SNAP from that season you wouldn't need to use their average yards allowed statistic to back up your point, sorry.

Defense at the end of that season was NOT the defense that CARRIED us into the playoffs in 2011. Kap and the offense was.

Kap not only ran with his legs but he passed beating them. Our passing game was on point. Since then he's been criticized for "regressing". I'm not sure where you come from with being on the defenses jock so hard. Everyone on this board will tell you the same thing. Go re watch every snap again. Kaps average passing was also the highest it was in his career THAT year.

Our defense wasn't the reason we made a run in 2012 and reached the superbowl, sorry, the offense was.

Kap didn't play in the playoffs in 2011, Smith did. And Smith also played half the 2012 season, giving us a W/L record on track to make the playoffs.

People need to calm down. Last year we got blasted by Denver and Manning twice. Pre Season and Regular season. We actually held him out of the end zone. Granted he completely missed Owens on that blitz that he took a big hit by Tarrt. Acker still made a good play on the ball thrown his way on that same play. Bad pass by Manning on the throw to DT that Acker picked off but he was in good position. Notice how he turned his head around to avoid the face guard for the P.I.
D looked ok. I think when ever you go against a QB of his caliber and you keep him out of the endzone thats an accomplishment for the D. Also remember he has seen us all week and we still made plays.

Offense on the other hand needs a little help but I think once the games start you will see Kap leave the pocket really quick if nothing is open. Look at the space that was created for him to run because of the new speed we have on offense. Kap is going to kill teams with his feet if he leaves the pocket to scramble for extra yards and if he doesn't should be some space in the intermediate to deep routes. i like the potential of the offense. just really need to find the right blend of O-Line men.