Interview Charles Haley

. . . BTW, I don't buy that whole ". . . for shock value. . . " crap at all. That's total after-the-fact clean-up BS!

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

For every Bruce Miller there are 5 Hardy's, Ray Rice, Blackmon and on and on.

I knew at some point someone would make that argument. I'm speaking of ALL Black athletes, not just in the NFL. When you look at troubled athletes, in all sports, the white boys got Blacks beat by a long shot. For example, go and research NHL stories just over the last 5 or 6 years. [ http://www.si.com/nhl/photos/2013/11/22/nhl-players-and-law ] A good number of those stories - many downright outrageous - are either on par with or worse than the stories of any of the guys you mentioned above. The only difference is that the media didn't/don't give them the coverage they give to Black athletes, in this case the NFL. The NHL is full of white boys who are encouraged, like a bunch of cave men, to fist fight on live television in the field (ice) of play, something the media roundly excoriates Black athletes for. You don't think that that carries to domestic from time to time? The MLB (mostly white and hispanic) are full of juiced up cheaters full of amphetamines. (Even then the most hated in that sport is Black.) Yet all we hear is that the NFL and NBA is full of weed smoking wife beating Black thugs. Well, of course it is, especially when the media has a laser-like focus on the two sports dominated by Blacks.

It's not that Black athletes are committing more of these offenses. Statistically, Black athletes are committing no more of these crimes (in relation to their numbers in their sport) than the general public, Black or white. So that whole "for every 1. . . there are 5. . . " is statistically baseless. Please read these articles completely:

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/the-nfls-domestic-violence-problem-and-our-race-problem
http://deadspin.com/what-do-arrests-data-really-say-about-nfl-players-and-c-733301399
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2013/07/01/the-myth-about-crime-and-pro-athletes/qlnKoSMkbhuImiS4pO87WJ/story.html
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the-rate-of-domestic-violence-arrests-among-nfl-players/

. . .And that's just a few.

The more one really digs into this the more one finds Charles Haley's statement even more utterly ignorant and bullsh!t - just total coon bullsh!t And he, and anyone who defends that crap statement, needs to be called out for it.

You can't blame hockey players for fighting when it's part of the sport. It just like blaming a pitcher for throwing at a batter when one of his guys was just thrown at. Now you can bring up that giant basketball brawl from a few years ago because that's not part of the sport.

The reason the NFL is looked at more is because of its popularity. You think Americans care about Hockey like they do football?

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

I knew at some point someone would make that argument. I'm speaking of ALL Black athletes, not just in the NFL. When you look at troubled athletes, in all sports, the white boys got Blacks beat by a long shot. For example, go and research NHL stories just over the last 5 or 6 years. [ http://www.si.com/nhl/photos/2013/11/22/nhl-players-and-law ] A good number of those stories - many downright outrageous - are either on par with or worse than the stories of any of the guys you mentioned above. The only difference is that the media didn't/don't give them the coverage they give to Black athletes, in this case the NFL. The NHL is full of white boys who are encouraged, like a bunch of cave men, to fist fight on live television in the field (ice) of play, something the media roundly excoriates Black athletes for. You don't think that that carries to domestic from time to time? The MLB (mostly white and hispanic) are full of juiced up cheaters full of amphetamines. (Even then the most hated in that sport is Black.) Yet all we hear is that the NFL and NBA is full of weed smoking wife beating Black thugs. Well, of course it is, especially when the media has a laser-like focus on the two sports dominated by Blacks.

It's not that Black athletes are committing more of these offenses. Statistically, Black athletes are committing no more of these crimes (in relation to their numbers in their sport) than the general public, Black or white. So that whole "for every 1. . . there are 5. . . " is statistically baseless. Please read these articles completely:

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/the-nfls-domestic-violence-problem-and-our-race-problem
http://deadspin.com/what-do-arrests-data-really-say-about-nfl-players-and-c-733301399
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2013/07/01/the-myth-about-crime-and-pro-athletes/qlnKoSMkbhuImiS4pO87WJ/story.html
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the-rate-of-domestic-violence-arrests-among-nfl-players/

. . .And that's just a few.

The more one really digs into this the more one finds Charles Haley's statement even more utterly ignorant and bullsh!t - just total coon bullsh!t And he, and anyone who defends that crap statement, needs to be called out for it.

I agree with your findings and there is often a double standard not just in media but in life but I think Charles maybe like my grandmother who marched in Selma. She would say " you need to be twice as good and twice as clean". Also "be what you're not expected to be". When she showed me I had to be near flawless to be taken seriously I applied that to my energy focus and work ethic to make a life for myself. She never told me that to coon for anyone. She told me that to make me want to go after it harder. It fired me up to take on the world. I hope that's where Charles was coming from but if he wasn't then wow!

Originally posted by jreff22:
You can't blame hockey players for fighting when it's part of the sport. It just like blaming a pitcher for throwing at a batter when one of his guys was just thrown at. Now you can bring up that giant basketball brawl from a few years ago because that's not part of the sport.

The reason the NFL is looked at more is because of its popularity. You think Americans care about Hockey like they do football?

BTW I loved the Malice at the Palace. That's how we played the game, physically and emotionally. Blows may have been exchanged from time to time. Expletives were spewed but the passion was there. I miss that but we gotta stay on track so I better stop there. I'm away from home but Haley better have just been trying to rile up guys. He's bipolar not stupid at least that's what I thought. I'm just glad to see the old guys back with the team crazies and all. If he can reach our guys and be the mentor we need then I'm all in

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

I knew at some point someone would make that argument. I'm speaking of ALL Black athletes, not just in the NFL. When you look at troubled athletes, in all sports, the white boys got Blacks beat by a long shot. For example, go and research NHL stories just over the last 5 or 6 years. [ http://www.si.com/nhl/photos/2013/11/22/nhl-players-and-law ] A good number of those stories - many downright outrageous - are either on par with or worse than the stories of any of the guys you mentioned above. The only difference is that the media didn't/don't give them the coverage they give to Black athletes, in this case the NFL. The NHL is full of white boys who are encouraged, like a bunch of cave men, to fist fight on live television in the field (ice) of play, something the media roundly excoriates Black athletes for. You don't think that that carries to domestic from time to time? The MLB (mostly white and hispanic) are full of juiced up cheaters full of amphetamines. (Even then the most hated in that sport is Black.) Yet all we hear is that the NFL and NBA is full of weed smoking wife beating Black thugs. Well, of course it is, especially when the media has a laser-like focus on the two sports dominated by Blacks.

It's not that Black athletes are committing more of these offenses. Statistically, Black athletes are committing no more of these crimes (in relation to their numbers in their sport) than the general public, Black or white. So that whole "for every 1. . . there are 5. . . " is statistically baseless. Please read these articles completely:

https://sports.vice.com/en_us/article/the-nfls-domestic-violence-problem-and-our-race-problem
http://deadspin.com/what-do-arrests-data-really-say-about-nfl-players-and-c-733301399
https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2013/07/01/the-myth-about-crime-and-pro-athletes/qlnKoSMkbhuImiS4pO87WJ/story.html
http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/the-rate-of-domestic-violence-arrests-among-nfl-players/

. . .And that's just a few.

The more one really digs into this the more one finds Charles Haley's statement even more utterly ignorant and bullsh!t - just total coon bullsh!t And he, and anyone who defends that crap statement, needs to be called out for it.

Sorry man, but you can't deny that in the NFL there are more black players getting arrested. If you don't believe me, check out this NFL arrest database:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/nfl/arrests-database/?appSession=354170898287928&RecordID=&PageID=2&PrevPageID=&cpipage=1&CPISortType=&CPIorderBy=

No cherry-picking names here, just the raw data. Scrolling through the first 150 names, only 7 of them were not black. What Haley is saying is not made up. Yeah he said it to get a reaction, but there is certainly a trend. Why that it is the case is up for debate, but we can't dispute the raw data.

Originally posted by jreff22:
You can't blame hockey players for fighting when it's part of the sport. It just like blaming a pitcher for throwing at a batter when one of his guys was just thrown at. Now you can bring up that giant basketball brawl from a few years ago because that's not part of the sport.

The reason the NFL is looked at more is because of its popularity. You think Americans care about Hockey like they do football?

Dude, you just looked over everything else I stated, the links I posted, and ran with one thing I stated.

Originally posted by SofaKing:
Sorry man, but you can't deny that in the NFL there are more black players getting arrested. If you don't believe me, check out this NFL arrest database:

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/nfl/arrests-database/?appSession=354170898287928&RecordID=&PageID=2&PrevPageID=&cpipage=1&CPISortType=&CPIorderBy=

No cherry-picking names here, just the raw data. Scrolling through the first 150 names, only 7 of them were not black. What Haley is saying is not made up. Yeah he said it to get a reaction, but there is certainly a trend. Why that it is the case is up for debate, but we can't dispute the raw data.

Obviously, you didn't read everything I posted and linked. I posted a lot of "raw data" as well. But I guess that means nothing. Nobody preaches to NHL players when they behave badly off the ice.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Obviously, you didn't read everything I posted and linked. I posted a lot of "raw data" as well. But I guess that means nothing. Nobody preaches to NHL players when they behave badly off the ice.

We're talking about the NFL, not NHL. You claimed there is double-standard, that white players don't get singled out like black players do. That's not true. The increased media coverage is due to the NFL being much more popular than the NHL, and with more black players in the NFL getting arrested than non-black, they get in the news more.. When Roethlisberger was accused of sexual assault, not even arrested, it was the biggest story in sports. Bruce Miller took heat for his arrest too, as well he should have. That's because of the NFL's popularity. Has nothing to do with race.

Originally posted by Pillbusta:
I agree with your findings and there is often a double standard not just in media but in life but I think Charles maybe like my grandmother who marched in Selma. She would say " you need to be twice as good and twice as clean". Also "be what you're not expected to be". When she showed me I had to be near flawless to be taken seriously I applied that to my energy focus and work ethic to make a life for myself. She never told me that to coon for anyone. She told me that to make me want to go after it harder. It fired me up to take on the world. I hope that's where Charles was coming from but if he wasn't then wow!

And as Ta-Nehisi Coates points out in his work THAT reality is one impossible to maintain. With all due respect to your grandmother (and my own elder relatives), in affect, you are asking Blacks to be super human to reach the basics. We are living in a time where we've (Black Americans) have reached the limitations of that outdated mode of thinking. And anyone -Black or white - still expecting Blacks to be "twice as good" are expecting an unrealistic reality can can never last.

Now, I don't know where Haley was coming from. I can only go by what the man said. And what he said was some coon sh!t. Period!!!

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by jreff22:

You can't blame hockey players for fighting when it's part of the sport. It just like blaming a pitcher for throwing at a batter when one of his guys was just thrown at. Now you can bring up that giant basketball brawl from a few years ago because that's not part of the sport.

The reason the NFL is looked at more is because of its popularity. You think Americans care about Hockey like they do football?

Dude, you just looked over everything else I stated, the links I posted, and ran with one thing I stated.

I did read the links. But you're deflecting on white athletes because Haley singled out the black ones. Pointing out the cave men of hockey isn't going to hold water, you might as well use MMA fighters to make a point that's not relevant. Do you not think a group of basketball players running into the stands is troubling?

And my argumemt about the popularity of the NFL is what you need to realize. If this was Canada people might care about the stupidity of hockey players. And honestly, how much Hockey news do you read?

Miller was arrested but later found guilty of smashing a phone. Kilgore got popped for being drunk. Aldon was on a whole different level, so was Cully, and RayMac. While we've had white players get in trouble, the severity of their crimes pales in comparison to their black teammates.

If you want to talk double standard I would do so on the popularity of the team. Aldon got a giant suspension while Rice got a slap on the wrist (initially).

I'm not wanting to make this about white vs black because it's a pointless argument. But you're going on a white tirade trying to prove how bad white people are. The raw data Sofa provided shows who is doing what, that's the answer for who's breaking the rules more.

Personally I don't care who gets suspended as long as their not 9ers. The only group I care about wears red and gold.

Originally posted by SofaKing:
We're talking about the NFL, not NHL. You claimed there is double-standard, that white players don't get singled out like black players do. That's not true. The increased media coverage is due to the NFL being much more popular than the NHL, and with more black players in the NFL getting arrested than non-black, they get in the news more.. When Roethlisberger was accused of sexual assault, not even arrested, it was the biggest story in sports. Bruce Miller took heat for his arrest too, as well he should have. That's because of the NFL's popularity. Has nothing to do with race.

Again, Black NFL players aren't arrested at higher rates than the general population. Those aren't my statistics, check out the links I provided. Plus, and as you pointed out, the NFL is mostly Black players, some 68-70%. This makes Haley's statement even more ignorant. How could it not be that more Black NFL guys would get arrested? From my first comment on this my point was always ALL Black athletes and how they're portrayed in the media. And even when white players are in trouble (again, see Bruce Miller or even Daniel Kilgore) there isn't the same media frenzy that there is when it's Black players. You mentioned Big Ben. Funny how this hasn't followed him in the media, or his team or contract since then. And how long was that even a story?

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
uh...he also shoved his girlfriend to the ground. No big deal to you, huh....

No he didnt. All he got was a misdemeanor vandalism charge for breaking her phone.

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by SofaKing:

We're talking about the NFL, not NHL. You claimed there is double-standard, that white players don't get singled out like black players do. That's not true. The increased media coverage is due to the NFL being much more popular than the NHL, and with more black players in the NFL getting arrested than non-black, they get in the news more.. When Roethlisberger was accused of sexual assault, not even arrested, it was the biggest story in sports. Bruce Miller took heat for his arrest too, as well he should have. That's because of the NFL's popularity. Has nothing to do with race.

Again, Black NFL players aren't arrested at higher rates than the general population. Those aren't my statistics, check out the links I provided. Plus, and as you pointed out, the NFL is mostly Black players, some 68-70%. This makes Haley's statement even more ignorant. How could it not be that more Black NFL guys would get arrested? From my first comment on this my point was always ALL Black athletes and how they're portrayed in the media. And even when white players are in trouble (again, see Bruce Miller or even Daniel Kilgore) there isn't the same media frenzy that there is when it's Black players. You mentioned Big Ben. Funny how this hasn't followed him in the media, or his team or contract since then. And how long was that even a story?

Big Ben was a major story as it was the offseason....miller and Kilgore is no where close to aldon, rice, Peterson and hardy

Some players do the wrong things.

Most players do the correct things.

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:

Originally posted by ninerjok:

Originally posted by 9ersLiferInChicago:
Yup, it always is!

Yup, if he's telling Black folks to do so by being more white!!

Yup, if it has nothing to do with Watt-like performance on the field!!

If he told or advised Aldon to act more like JJ Watt that would actually be a good thing. Watt's a totally upstanding citizen in the NFL by all accounts. Same thing if he told him to look at his first NFL mentor Justin Smith as a proper behavioral example. But just for the sake of it being an exemplary black player he could say "act more like DeMarcus Ware or Thomas Davis (NFL Man of the Year). Those guys don't ever do any stupid stuff."

That would be all good if Charles comment was singular, limited to those two players only. But it wasn't! He said,

"Why don't you all act like the white guys? You never see them in the paper getting high or hitting people"

Now, let's set aside the fact that that statement is completely asinine, and devoid of any real intellectual thinking as to how the media covers athletes (e.g see Bruce Miller), the statement was painfully blanket and, for lack of a better term, full of abject ignorance.

For every Bruce Miller there are 5 Hardy's, Ray Rice, Blackmon and on and on.

Ok. Lets say I give you that. Whats the ratio of blacks to white in the nfl? 1 to 5 sounds about right.