I just realized...(Outside Linebackers)

Originally posted by NCommand:
thl is probably sick of me piggy-backing on his posts (sorry, it's slow around here this time of year) but he's spot on. IMHO, you'll most likely see Dorsey/AA, Williams and Dial on running base downs and then see the pass rushers in Carradine and Dockett used on more obvious passing downs; even AA (to help occupy two lineman for Aldon/Eli) on passing downs. Mangini just noted his desire for personnel matchups and this would be a terrific way to keep everyone fresh WHILE utilizing their biggest strengths IMHO. Also, the cross-training of sides and positions will be emphasized as well as being able to be interchangeable in roles (i.e. a strong pass rusher will still be required to work hard on run-stopping skills and play some of those downs as well esp. b/c we can't always change personnel packages during games at will).

RDE: Glenn Dorsey; Tank Carradine & Arik Armstead
NT: Ian Williams; (Glenn Dorsey & Quinton Dial)
LDE: Quinton Dial; Darnell Dockett

If Williams and Dorsey stay healthy this year the DL should be as strong overall as in the past. While they will miss J Smith I really don't see McDonald as being difficult to replace. Carradine is coming along and Williams, Dorsey and Dial can all play the run well. As for the pass rush...I agree with THL that the 3/4 DL takes on blockers to let the LBs pass rush. With the depth at DL and especially at OLB the pass rush should be fine.

The change in philosophy should also help if Mangini is a bit more aggressive than Fangio was. Will give up some big plays but will hopefully also get more pressure and cause more turnovers.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:
thl is probably sick of me piggy-backing on his posts (sorry, it's slow around here this time of year) but he's spot on. IMHO, you'll most likely see Dorsey/AA, Williams and Dial on running base downs and then see the pass rushers in Carradine and Dockett used on more obvious passing downs; even AA (to help occupy two lineman for Aldon/Eli) on passing downs. Mangini just noted his desire for personnel matchups and this would be a terrific way to keep everyone fresh WHILE utilizing their biggest strengths IMHO. Also, the cross-training of sides and positions will be emphasized as well as being able to be interchangeable in roles (i.e. a strong pass rusher will still be required to work hard on run-stopping skills and play some of those downs as well esp. b/c we can't always change personnel packages during games at will).

RDE: Glenn Dorsey; Tank Carradine & Arik Armstead
NT: Ian Williams; (Glenn Dorsey & Quinton Dial)
LDE: Quinton Dial; Darnell Dockett

If Williams and Dorsey stay healthy this year the DL should be as strong overall as in the past. While they will miss J Smith I really don't see McDonald as being difficult to replace. Carradine is coming along and Williams, Dorsey and Dial can all play the run well. As for the pass rush...I agree with THL that the 3/4 DL takes on blockers to let the LBs pass rush. With the depth at DL and especially at OLB the pass rush should be fine.

The change in philosophy should also help if Mangini is a bit more aggressive than Fangio was. Will give up some big plays but will hopefully also get more pressure and cause more turnovers.

For sure...to be objective, we only need to replace Justin's production which was 60% of the time on the field, 43 tackles and 5 sacks. Now, those numbers don't tell the who story of course. Still, I would imagine a rotation of at least two players would be used here to produce better stats overall this year.

And you bring up a huge piece to all of this in 'philosophy.' Like we all know, Fangio was about as vanilla as it comes regarding how he used the front 7. We have to remember that Mangini is big on personnel groupings (i.e. using personnel that help create mismatches in our favor) and attacking weakness (i.e. driving an OC crazy by shifting, using pre and post-snap disguises and trying to dictate the offense; force their backs and TE's to stay in and block - tie up WR's at the LOS).

Therefore, we don't know how the RDE will be used in Mangini's scheme...and it may change from game to game, series to series, rotate, changes in personnel, etc. In short, the RDE one game may be used as merely an occupier (Dorsey/AA) for the OLB's to attack and thrive or perhaps he's used to push and collapse the pocket and rush the passer all game (Carradine). Hell, sides may change. If Dockett is not as hot on the left side, he may bring him over to the right and attack the LG/LT who appear weaker, etc.

Let's not forget, we are not trying to replace a 29 year old Cowboy....even the great JS is not what he once was.

Originally posted by Murphys1:
Let's not forget, we are not trying to replace a 29 year old Cowboy....even the great JS is not what he once was.

Truth. We just need to replace this: 60% of the time on the field, 43 tackles and 5 sacks

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Murphys1:
Let's not forget, we are not trying to replace a 29 year old Cowboy....even the great JS is not what he once was.

Truth. We just need to replace this: 60% of the time on the field, 43 tackles and 5 sacks

The thing that may be missed (but I hope some others rise to the occassion) is the great play at the most important time--causing a fumble fifteen yards past the LOS to save a game, batting down a potential game winning TD pass, pulling three players out of the way so Aldon Smith can make a game winning sack...the play to play effort can be replaced but it isn't as easy to replace the great play.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Murphys1:
Let's not forget, we are not trying to replace a 29 year old Cowboy....even the great JS is not what he once was.

Truth. We just need to replace this: 60% of the time on the field, 43 tackles and 5 sacks

The thing that may be missed (but I hope some others rise to the occassion) is the great play at the most important time--causing a fumble fifteen yards past the LOS to save a game, batting down a potential game winning TD pass, pulling three players out of the way so Aldon Smith can make a game winning sack...the play to play effort can be replaced but it isn't as easy to replace the great play.

The dude was an absolute monster in 2011 and 2012. You could still see flashes in 2013 but not in 2014 unfortunately (that I can remember). I don't know if anyone could replicate his influence on the 2011 and 2012 squads (maybe J.J. Watt)? If we can get anyone to play 3/4 as hard as him, we'll be in great shape. He was just a very special player. I'm glad Carradine had an opportunity to learn from THE best!

Nc what are you talking. Cowboy made plenty of all pro plays last year. More than the year before when he was not fully back from triceps. What are you saying. You know that.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Murphys1:
Let's not forget, we are not trying to replace a 29 year old Cowboy....even the great JS is not what he once was.

Truth. We just need to replace this: 60% of the time on the field, 43 tackles and 5 sacks

The thing that may be missed (but I hope some others rise to the occassion) is the great play at the most important time--causing a fumble fifteen yards past the LOS to save a game, batting down a potential game winning TD pass, pulling three players out of the way so Aldon Smith can make a game winning sack...the play to play effort can be replaced but it isn't as easy to replace the great play.

I'm just hoping at least one of the players stepping into his position can pull that same trick of blasting two linemen and letting Aldon sweep around behind him.

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Nc what are you talking. Cowboy made plenty of all pro plays last year. More than the year before when he was not fully back from triceps. What are you saying. You know that.

He was talking about game-changing clutch plays (knock-down on 4th down, strip-sack for a TO to seal the win, etc.). If he had any of these, please elaborate. Justin was still very good when he was on the field but he wasn't the game-changer he's been in the past IMHO.

Originally posted by NCommand:
For sure...to be objective, we only need to replace Justin's production which was 60% of the time on the field, 43 tackles and 5 sacks. Now, those numbers don't tell the who story of course. Still, I would imagine a rotation of at least two players would be used here to produce better stats overall this year.

And you bring up a huge piece to all of this in 'philosophy.' Like we all know, Fangio was about as vanilla as it comes regarding how he used the front 7. We have to remember that Mangini is big on personnel groupings (i.e. using personnel that help create mismatches in our favor) and attacking weakness (i.e. driving an OC crazy by shifting, using pre and post-snap disguises and trying to dictate the offense; force their backs and TE's to stay in and block - tie up WR's at the LOS).

Therefore, we don't know how the RDE will be used in Mangini's scheme...and it may change from game to game, series to series, rotate, changes in personnel, etc. In short, the RDE one game may be used as merely an occupier (Dorsey/AA) for the OLB's to attack and thrive or perhaps he's used to push and collapse the pocket and rush the passer all game (Carradine). Hell, sides may change. If Dockett is not as hot on the left side, he may bring him over to the right and attack the LG/LT who appear weaker, etc.

Good points!

IMO, when one door closes another opens.

We'll all get to see either the emergence of a new star performer[s] or a new dynamic that showcases talents not yet seen because of scheme changes.

If Mangini can successfully use blitz package combinations along with more production from injured players - it becomes a whole new D from last season.

Originally posted by NCommand:
He was talking about game-changing clutch plays (knock-down on 4th down, strip-sack for a TO to seal the win, etc.). If he had any of these, please elaborate. Justin was still very good when he was on the field but he wasn't the game-changer he's been in the past IMHO.

Thats a pretty narrow measure of effectiveness. Without aldon he was routinely double and triple teamed yet ended the season with 5 sacks which is more than any interior lineman we have had over the last ...what.... 3-4 years? He did make one game altering play I can remember....tackle for loss near goal line on ...third down... early in the season, when it was conceivable we were in it... I think if we had a film review we could find plenty of elite plays from cowboy ... as I said more than when he was not 100% from triceps surgery...

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:

Originally posted by NCommand:
He was talking about game-changing clutch plays (knock-down on 4th down, strip-sack for a TO to seal the win, etc.). If he had any of these, please elaborate. Justin was still very good when he was on the field but he wasn't the game-changer he's been in the past IMHO.

Thats a pretty narrow measure of effectiveness. Without aldon he was routinely double and triple teamed yet ended the season with 5 sacks which is more than any interior lineman we have had over the last ...what.... 3-4 years? He did make one game altering play I can remember....tackle for loss near goal line on ...third down... early in the season, when it was conceivable we were in it... I think if we had a film review we could find plenty of elite plays from cowboy ... as I said more than when he was not 100% from triceps surgery...

That's just what we were talking about in discussion. But yes, we certainly will miss his presence and veteran savy (leadership and work ethic).

Originally posted by brodiebluebanaszak:
Thats a pretty narrow measure of effectiveness. Without aldon he was routinely double and triple teamed yet ended the season with 5 sacks which is more than any interior lineman we have had over the last ...what.... 3-4 years? He did make one game altering play I can remember....tackle for loss near goal line on ...third down... early in the season, when it was conceivable we were in it... I think if we had a film review we could find plenty of elite plays from cowboy ... as I said more than when he was not 100% from triceps surgery...

You need to read a couple more posts before assuming you get the meaning of a two page conversation! The point was...by upping the overall effectiveness of the defense they may be able reduce how much J Smith will be missed. But they will find it more difficult to replace the great plays that very few players in history can make. Those examples were given, not as a totallity of JS effectiveness, but to show plays only he would be likely to make.

we have depth but i wish we had borland!

Well im not making assuptions about posts i didnt read just responding to a statement.

Anyway yes we will have a hard time replacing justin on many levels.

I dream he is just taking a sabbatical like davis.