Colin Kaepernick Thread

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I'm not trying to be a grump here, but if you looked at what I wrote that's what I'm saying. Defenses already game plan Chip's offense for a running QB with the other guys. I've seen it on film. I've never said CK made wrong reads in the read-option or that he wouldn't run it very well. What I'm saying is - that running element, because of what defenses will do against Chip's offense is a much, much smaller portion of what the QB does in his offense than passing.

The whole thing started when I was saying that CK's running ability shouldn't be much of a determining factor to him starting. Because the passing element is so much more prominent for a QB in his system. The read-option was always an element with Vick/Foles/Bradford. They didn't, not run the ball because they couldn't or because they didn't have Ck's speed, it was because the D-end was playing QB run. That's part of Chip's offense. He uses that D-end or OLB playing run to stretch defenses horizontally.

I think i know what you're saying. That even with a slow poke in Bradford, teams were still respecting the QB keeper. Why? I don't know. But I see the unblocked key defender stay home on the edge in case Bradford kept the ball. The unblocked defender did not recklessly crash down on the HB dive even with Bradford at QB. I can show a few examples of this. My guess is they didn't want Bradford to get any "free" yards by completely neglecting him.

"Gabbert can't run the football because he'd probably get injured, Kap is a smart runner!"

3 surgeries and more missed practices later.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/cosell-defenses-studied-kaepernick-didnt-advance-mentally

Cosell: As defenses studied, Kaepernick didn't advance mentally
August 11, 2016, 12:00 pm

"He did not advance as a quarterback in the areas that you need to advance."
— Greg Cosell on Colin Kaepernick

Colin Kaepernick nearly won a Super Bowl in 2012. In June 2014, he signed a contract extension worth over $100 million.

Last year, he was benched in favor of Blaine Gabbert and then nearly was traded during the offseason.

He's currently in a battle with Gabbert for the starting quarterback position under new head coach Chip Kelly.

"Obviously, I don't know what's in his head or how his work habits are or things of that nature," Greg Cosell said on KNBR 680 on Wednesday. "First of all, I think the 49ers with Greg Roman had the most multiple, diverse run game in the National Football League, and I think that really helped Colin Kaepernick. Now he was included in that run game because they did an awful lot with him. And that was that stretch of a couple of years where the running quarterback, with the read-option concepts, sort of took the league by storm.

"And then a lot of defensive coaches in the league, because they're pretty smart, figured out how to defend that better. So you don't see it as much now, and I think that hurt Colin Kaepernick, and you couldn't protect him quite as much."

The 49ers traded up to select Kaepernick in the second round of the 2011 draft. After barely seeing the field as a rookie, Kaepernick replaced a concussed Alex Smith midway through the 2012 season and didn't look back.

In the divisional round against the Packers, Kaepernick threw for 263 yards and two touchdowns and also ran for 181 yards to go along with two rushing scores.

In 2013, he racked up 3197 passing yards, 21 passing touchdowns, 524 rush yards and four rushing touchdowns. The 49ers went 12-4 and nearly advanced to the Super Bowl for the second straight year.

"The 49ers also had a really, really good defense back then, and their defense could keep the games closer, because Kaepernick was never a true high-percentage passer," Cosell explained. "But with the combination of some running and with his ability to drive throws down the field -- and keep in mind Vernon Davis was also very good in those years and he was a deep threat -- so, I think there's a lot of factors.

"One thing that was really evident in watching the tape was that Kaepernick did not see things clearly, so he did not advance as a quarterback in the areas that you need to advance; the mental areas of the game. He can still throw the ball really hard, he's got a power arm, he's still a fast runner; but I think you have to advance in the mental parts of the game both in an understanding of your own offense, and the understanding of defense.

"And I think he was a little stunted there up to this point."

Originally posted by NCommand:
http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/cosell-defenses-studied-kaepernick-didnt-advance-mentally

Cosell: As defenses studied, Kaepernick didn't advance mentally
August 11, 2016, 12:00 pm

"He did not advance as a quarterback in the areas that you need to advance."
— Greg Cosell on Colin Kaepernick

Colin Kaepernick nearly won a Super Bowl in 2012. In June 2014, he signed a contract extension worth over $100 million.

Last year, he was benched in favor of Blaine Gabbert and then nearly was traded during the offseason.

He's currently in a battle with Gabbert for the starting quarterback position under new head coach Chip Kelly.

"Obviously, I don't know what's in his head or how his work habits are or things of that nature," Greg Cosell said on KNBR 680 on Wednesday. "First of all, I think the 49ers with Greg Roman had the most multiple, diverse run game in the National Football League, and I think that really helped Colin Kaepernick. Now he was included in that run game because they did an awful lot with him. And that was that stretch of a couple of years where the running quarterback, with the read-option concepts, sort of took the league by storm.

"And then a lot of defensive coaches in the league, because they're pretty smart, figured out how to defend that better. So you don't see it as much now, and I think that hurt Colin Kaepernick, and you couldn't protect him quite as much."

The 49ers traded up to select Kaepernick in the second round of the 2011 draft. After barely seeing the field as a rookie, Kaepernick replaced a concussed Alex Smith midway through the 2012 season and didn't look back.

In the divisional round against the Packers, Kaepernick threw for 263 yards and two touchdowns and also ran for 181 yards to go along with two rushing scores.

In 2013, he racked up 3197 passing yards, 21 passing touchdowns, 524 rush yards and four rushing touchdowns. The 49ers went 12-4 and nearly advanced to the Super Bowl for the second straight year.

"The 49ers also had a really, really good defense back then, and their defense could keep the games closer, because Kaepernick was never a true high-percentage passer," Cosell explained. "But with the combination of some running and with his ability to drive throws down the field -- and keep in mind Vernon Davis was also very good in those years and he was a deep threat -- so, I think there's a lot of factors.

"One thing that was really evident in watching the tape was that Kaepernick did not see things clearly, so he did not advance as a quarterback in the areas that you need to advance; the mental areas of the game. He can still throw the ball really hard, he's got a power arm, he's still a fast runner; but I think you have to advance in the mental parts of the game both in an understanding of your own offense, and the understanding of defense.

"And I think he was a little stunted there up to this point."

I honestly had to check on the date of this article, because it could've been written back in 2014. Nothing has changed for Kaep. His weakness still seems the same.

Originally posted by thl408:
At one point, I thought Kap was ahead of Cam and Wussell as a pocket passer. That's how highly I thought of Kap. Looking back, that was pretty homerish of me. Cam was fortunate to be in an offense that I thought truly highlighted his strengths, and masked his weaknesses. An offense that incorporated designed QB runs and was run heavy, which allowed him to get a good playaction game going. It attacked intermediate/deep by keeping in extra pass blockers - more blockers, less routes. That's an offense I think would also favor Kap and his cannon, and would mask his inconsistent speed of decision making.

One thing Chip's offense has started to face in the past 2 seasons is lots of man coverage (Chip is on record saying this). I always thought Kap was better throwing into man coverage than he was into zone coverage, where every defender is able to read his eyes. I would use his stats vs ARI to backup this claim. I know he had a bad game in his last outing against ARI, but historically, he's been very good against their man scheme. I see him comfortable throwing into tight coverage if the defender's back was turned to him. I saw him be very hesitant throwing into open space before the WR made his break, and not very good at using his eyes to move defenders - things required to bust zone coverage.

So there are things that work for Kap and against Kap in Chip's offense imo. Sending out 5 routes and forcing him to make quick consistent decisions (throw in rhythm) work against him. Facing man coverage and the zone read being the bread and butter run play work towards his strengths.

Yea, agreed. I think the thing with Kaep is he's going to get a coach who will be able to utilize his strengths. I don't think Harbaugh did that. I think Harbaugh did what it took to win, but not actually coach up Kaep.

Originally posted by 49erphan:
I have wondered that if Kap working with Warner (and others) before last season actually ended up messing him up when the season started. There was a lot of talk that Kap had adjusted his passing delivery and some other mechanics. I don't think he had enough repetitions to make those new mechanics feel natural when the season started. It could be that things like bad offensive line play gave him less time when, due to still trying to adjust to the new mechanics, he actually needed more time. With so much pressure so fast he probably naturally fell back to old habits but his new programming could have gotten in the way and he might have gotten hung up in a terrible in-between situation where he hadn't mastered the new stuff to be better yet and couldn't react the way he had in the past that had worked okay. And that may be one of the biggest reasons he lost his confidence which made his play even worse, which made him lose even more confidence, which made him play worse...

I have no way of knowing whether any of that is true. It's all speculation, but it seems plausible.

Maybe Kap just can't get his head into processing things at a franchise quarterback speed, but maybe last year he got caught in a perfect storm of things that led to his collapse and Kelly will find a way to get him back on track to being a franchise quarterback. Watching which way this develops is one of the things that makes this pre-season so interesting.

Think it did. The guy goes off to work with Warner who is not a mobile QB and who preaches to stand in the pocket and throw....never run. Changes Kaep's throwing motion. Couple that with a terrible coaching staff, a bad line and injuries. I mean....Lets say Kaep isn't Kaep and we're talking about a completely different QB....I'm betting that QB would have been given every excuse for his play. But seems like the theme is despite all that Kaep should have been consistently good. I just can't believe that.

I see "franchise QB" tossed around a lot. Franchise QB's do not do it all by themselves. They get a lot of help. When we move on from Kaep/Gabbert and look for a franchise QB, we BETTER do it the right way, which is surround him with the right people (coaches, players). If you're going to commit all that money you need to go all out and back that QB or else we will be in the never ending cycle we've been in for decades now.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
http://www.49erswebzone.com/news/95979-colin-kaepernick-does-not-practice-thursday/

lol Kaep already sore from throwing just one week into TC

And you took offense when I called you a hater? Own it. You've always been one.

Originally posted by smithgdwg:
Kap going to milk the injury so that we have to keep him next year as well. Should just cut him to not have to deal with that scenario.

Read this over a few times then explain to us how any of it makes sense?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I'm not trying to be a grump here, but if you looked at what I wrote that's what I'm saying. Defenses already game plan Chip's offense for a running QB with the other guys. I've seen it on film. I've never said CK made wrong reads in the read-option or that he wouldn't run it very well. What I'm saying is - that running element, because of what defenses will do against Chip's offense is a much, much smaller portion of what the QB does in his offense than passing.

The whole thing started when I was saying that CK's running ability shouldn't be much of a determining factor to him starting. Because the passing element is so much more prominent for a QB in his system. The read-option was always an element with Vick/Foles/Bradford. They didn't, not run the ball because they couldn't or because they didn't have Ck's speed, it was because the D-end was playing QB run. That's part of Chip's offense. He uses that D-end or OLB playing run to stretch defenses horizontally.

They game planed for a Bradfor/Foles/Sanchez read option not the same you throw Vick out there but the dude was a old man and still had over 300 yards running on 36 attempts (that's well over 600 yards in a full season for his old ass lol).

I know what you're both saying, and NY, it doesn't make sense that a defense would play Bradford as a running threat, but for some reason he was able to hold the unblocked defender just enough to make that defender 'behind the play'. I think what a mobile QB will do is make the defender more 'behind the play', and on plays where the decision is to keep, the QB runs can be larger gains. But defenses did play the QB keeper more than logic would suggest for a non-mobile QB.

I looked at the first good defense that PHI played in 2015. So this is @NYJ in week 3. Key defender is highlighted.
(inside zone)



______________
outside zone

Originally posted by NorthBay49er:
Which shoulder did colon injure?

left

Originally posted by NCommand:
http://www.csnbayarea.com/49ers/cosell-defenses-studied-kaepernick-didnt-advance-mentally

Cosell: As defenses studied, Kaepernick didn't advance mentally
August 11, 2016, 12:00 pm

"He did not advance as a quarterback in the areas that you need to advance."
— Greg Cosell on Colin Kaepernick

Oh nice another post with no new information from Cosell, mimicking what he has already written handfuls of time. He's still speaking about last season by the way. LMAO. This guy is a dinosaur and a cynic.

Look at what he wrote in December of 2014. Eerily similar.

Cosell on Cam (5:25): Two players I get asked about are Cam and Colin Kaepernick. Until Cam becomes more accurate he will be hit or miss on any given week. He is fascinating because he makes amazing throws each week but misses the routine throws too often as well. He has started 60 games now so being a consistent in the pocket may not happen for him. Being athletic as QB really isn't all that meaningful

Cosell on Cam again (9:30): I wouldn't use the word regressed but he is the same. Expectations changed for him. Would he be better with Calvin Johnson? Maybe. No WRs can catch some of the balls he is throwing right now though.

Cosell on mobile QBs (10:45): I'm a firm believer, I spent time with Bill Walsh 7 or 8 times, you must teach a QB to master the pocket or you will hinder their development. Cam isn't mastering the tools necessary to improve. There isn't a right or wrong but coaches believe let the player be the player but I disagree with that approach

Cosell throwing some truth bombs

Originally posted by thl408:
I know what you're both saying, and NY, it doesn't make sense that a defense would play Bradford as a running threat, but for some reason he was able to hold the unblocked defender just enough to make that defender 'behind the play'. I think what a mobile QB will do is make the defender more 'behind the play', and on plays where the decision is to keep, the QB runs can be larger gains. But defenses did play the QB keeper more than logic would suggest for a non-mobile QB.

I looked at the first good defense that PHI played in 2015. So this is @NYJ in week 3. Key defender is highlighted.
(inside zone)



______________
outside zone

It seems more like the defender was just setting/holding the edge if the RB had decided to cut back

Originally posted by BOI49er:
Nice post, and I agree with all of it. The one thing I would suggest is that if Kaepernick is the QB, the defenses would move away from trend on Kelly and go back to zone to read Kaepernick's eyes and flow to them. That book is already written.

This point is moot. The starting QB for this team is the QB that runs Chip's system the best. So if Kap starts and the Rams D plays him like they're playing against the
Geepsula offense, we'll see Kap light them up like he lit Green Bay up in the opener a couple of years ago.

What are the chances he gets the RG3 bubble wrap treatment this season if he's really injured?