Colin Kaepernick Thread

Boy, I see "dumbing down" and immediately, my mind goes numb. If you are dumbing down a playbook, you got the wrong guy at QB. For a guy like Driskell, sure, start easy and work up. But for guys around 5-6 yrs, "dumbing down the playbook" are not words that should be in the lexicon.

I think Gabbert will start pre-season games 1 and 2 and Kap will take over by game 3, I think Kelly is going to go with Kap but make him earn it and I can't blame him for that,

Originally posted by BOI49er:
No we not, we talking about his whole body of work, and his confidence, and his effort, and his improvement in six years.

That body of work is pretty damn good. The selective amnesia of the Kap haters is typical of haters of all kinds. He passes the "YouTube Test" for me. Meaning that if he has a highlight reel over over 10 minutes of unique footage, he's a pretty damn good quarterback.

You can b***h about his 2014 and 2015 seasons all you want, but those were horrible situations for any QB much less a relatively inexperienced one.

I'm not onboard anyone's train right now. I just say stop the hate and let the chips fall as they may. Chip Kelly is a capable coach and I trust his judgement. The best QB will be on the field leading the offense.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Why was Kap playing against 2nd and 3rd stringers when he was the starting QB? I wonder if teams throw out their actual offenses in preseaon

Aaron Rogers didn't throw for a TD in preseaon last yr...

I think Tom Brady threw a pick 6...

Originally posted by GEEK:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Originally posted by mojave45:

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Originally posted by mojave45:

Originally posted by NorthBay49er:

Originally posted by GEEK:

I'm excited to see Kap perform in the pre-season. This is finally the true evaluation for him.

- He's healthy
- He's got an upgrade at HC, OC, and OL for coaching
- He's got an upgraded O-line projecting to be Staley-Garnett-Kilgore-Tiller-Davis with former starters Martin, Brown, and Beadles as depth.
- He's got another year under his belt with his rapport with the WRs - Smith, Ellington, Patton, and Simpson
- He's got matured TE play with McDonald and Bell's development
- He's got a healthy Hyde with some new depth with Draughn, Harris, and Taylor.

Is it perfect? Nope. Who knows about the TEs and WR's level of talent. But with Kap's playing style, and Kelly's offensive scheme, he should be a clear front runner for the job. Maiocco hinted that Gabbert is in the lead, but that doesn't mean jack when they haven't played a down of preseason football.

Preseason means nothing and neither does practice. Week 1 is when it all begins!

Preseason abd practice might determine who starts that first game.

Right. There's no point of jumping the gun when both players being in year 1 of the system, i doubt 100% of the playbook has been installed.

Yup. And even if it has, it takes time and reps to get it down. So, watching them practice it us one thing. Sering them run it in a few series against another team is an entirely different level.

True, also gotta take consideration of dumbing down playbook in pre-season. You don't wanna show too much and give people some good tape to prepare for you. Chip knows this(most HCs do), here's to hoping a couple new wrinkles/players are explosive enough to make the offense go.

Basically my point is that Kap SHOULD outperform Gabbert in pre-season to start day 1 of the regular season. It's going to be our first real sample of his talent level.

If Kaepernick was such a perfect fit for Kelly's offense as his fanatical fans believe there shouldn't even be a competition. I mean here he is, until mid last season our undisputed starter since he took over, and he has to compete with a failed QB,that was almost out of the league. To hear his supporters tell it, the only way Kap could not start is some dark scheme involving nefarious "politics" .

My belief is that if he doesn't start, it is because he lacks the repetitive accuracy and quick decision making Kelly will require.

I even heard some whining that he couldn't be expected to fix all those issues in a "few weeks" under Kelly. I agree. He should have been working on those issues for a few years.

There really shouldn't be a competition. As the long term starter Kap should know the quirks and habits of his team, have a deep rapport with his receivers and RB(Hyde), and be well respected and embraced by his team mates. If he isn't, and doesn't have those things nailed down by now, that isn't politics, that is just sad.

I know his followers are scrambling to cover all the ridiculous statements they made during the past off season, where basically every person except him is to blame, but there is no one to blame but Kap himself if he loses the head to head competition.

Kelly may well choose Kaepernick over Gabbert. Given their respective career numbers it shouldn't even be a dicussion. The fact that it is not only a discussion,but one that is coming down to a preseason decision should be troubling to all 49er fans.

I don't personally believe Gabbert has shown what it takes to be the QB of the future for us, so it is a bad place to be thinking Kap is at the level where he hasn't beaten this guy out by now.

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Why was Kap playing against 2nd and 3rd stringers when he was the starting QB? I wonder if teams throw out their actual offenses in preseaon

Aaron Rogers didn't throw for a TD in preseaon last yr...

I think Tom Brady threw a pick 6...

Boy they are just awful lol...but seriously I don't see why Kap can't throw up Cam Newton type stats with chip. We NEED to have a better OL regardless of who's back there (which I think we've started going in the right direction) and we NEED to get the running game going before anything else.

Neither QB we have is gonna slice up secondaries, but I do think Kap brings another element in the running game compared to Blaine. Yes we know Blaine had one amazing run that no bear saw coming, but let's not get ahead of ourselves on that front lol.


Both will probably start at some point but IMO Kap is the more dangerous of the two QBs...hell there's even been DCs that said it would be hell to game plan for a Chip/Kap.

Originally posted by mutant-man49:
Don't forget to mention WHO the two QBS played last year. Look at 8 games and tell me which QB had a tougher schedule??

Regardless of he outcome or toughness of schedule Kaepernick's struggles were beyond O-line, coaching and strength of opponents. He took a step(or 4) back during the season - that is without argument. He began missing rudimentary parts of QB play. He repeatedly missed reads on some of the most elementary passing concepts in the game - slant/flat, curl/flat, drive. I remember at least 4 times in just 2 games where he threw to the wrong receiver on the slant/flat concept - to the chagrin of Torrey Smith. His timing in his footwork was off in almost every game except for Minn and NY. The frustrating part of it was that he was supposed to have taken a huge leap forward in this things. He worked on these things the entire off-season and should have taken a step forward. It wasn't like GeepChryst were running foreign passing concepts. They were things he had done throughout his career.

For me, it's not about what he's done 2 years ago because the decline has been so sharp. Regardless of physical tools or past performance he has to show that he's got his head screwed on straight and is able to make the elementary reads with good footwork.

For whatever reason he played very poorly- and we can argue back and forth as to the cause of those reasons, whatever they are it happened. Chip Kelly isn't going to be concerned as to why Kaepernick may struggle, this is a business and he's not in it to feel sorry for a guy who may have gotten shafted for one reason or another, so it's not his fault he can't perform. Either he's going to perform or he's not. He'll coach em up as best he can, but still, if CK can't perform the reads, timing, footwork, accuracy, he isn't going to start. Plain and simple.

If those areas have improved and he can ball out - great. If not, it doesn't matter the reasons why. He can't. So, he shouldn't be starting.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by mutant-man49:

Don't forget to mention WHO the two QBS played last year. Look at 8 games and tell me which QB had a tougher schedule??

Regardless of he outcome or toughness of schedule Kaepernick's struggles were beyond O-line, coaching and strength of opponents. He took a step(or 4) back during the season - that is without argument. He began missing rudimentary parts of QB play. He repeatedly missed reads on some of the most elementary passing concepts in the game - slant/flat, curl/flat, drive. I remember at least 4 times in just 2 games where he threw to the wrong receiver on the slant/flat concept - to the chagrin of Torrey Smith. His timing in his footwork was off in almost every game except for Minn and NY. The frustrating part of it was that he was supposed to have taken a huge leap forward in this things. He worked on these things the entire off-season and should have taken a step forward. It wasn't like GeepChryst were running foreign passing concepts. They were things he had done throughout his career.

For me, it's not about what he's done 2 years ago because the decline has been so sharp. Regardless of physical tools or past performance he has to show that he's got his head screwed on straight and is able to make the elementary reads with good footwork.

For whatever reason he played very poorly- and we can argue back and forth as to the cause of those reasons, whatever they are it happened. Chip Kelly isn't going to be concerned as to why Kaepernick may struggle, this is a business and he's not in it to feel sorry for a guy who may have gotten shafted for one reason or another, so it's not his fault he can't perform. Either he's going to perform or he's not. He'll coach em up as best he can, but still, if CK can't perform the reads, timing, footwork, accuracy, he isn't going to start. Plain and simple.

If those areas have improved and he can ball out - great. If not, it doesn't matter the reasons why. He can't. So, he shouldn't be starting.

This.

Originally posted by mojave45:
If Kaepernick was such a perfect fit for Kelly's offense as his fanatical fans believe there shouldn't even be a competition. I mean here he is, until mid last season our undisputed starter since he took over, and he has to compete with a failed QB,that was almost out of the league. To hear his supporters tell it, the only way Kap could not start is some dark scheme involving nefarious "politics" .

My belief is that if he doesn't start, it is because he lacks the repetitive accuracy and quick decision making Kelly will require.

I even heard some whining that he couldn't be expected to fix all those issues in a "few weeks" under Kelly. I agree. He should have been working on those issues for a few years.

There really shouldn't be a competition. As the long term starter Kap should know the quirks and habits of his team, have a deep rapport with his receivers and RB(Hyde), and be well respected and embraced by his team mates. If he isn't, and doesn't have those things nailed down by now, that isn't politics, that is just sad.

I know his followers are scrambling to cover all the ridiculous statements they made during the past off season, where basically every person except him is to blame, but there is no one to blame but Kap himself if he loses the head to head competition.

Kelly may well choose Kaepernick over Gabbert. Given their respective career numbers it shouldn't even be a dicussion. The fact that it is not only a discussion,but one that is coming down to a preseason decision should be troubling to all 49er fans.

I don't personally believe Gabbert has shown what it takes to be the QB of the future for us, so it is a bad place to be thinking Kap is at the level where he hasn't beaten this guy out by now.

I hear what you're saying and I get it for sure (and yes we disagree on this front it's all good )....I will continue to state he's been throwing the football for what week and a half after not being able to do so for 7 months and 3 surgeries.

Accuracy is important but we saw with Foles/Bradford Chip's offense makes a QB more accurate (look at Philly numbers vs Rams). As far as rapport goes who says he doesn't I mean the practice before yesterday he had a great outing throwing for like 4 TDs I believe.

Nothing wrong with a QB competition IMO.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by BleedsRedNGold:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Why was Kap playing against 2nd and 3rd stringers when he was the starting QB? I wonder if teams throw out their actual offenses in preseaon

Aaron Rogers didn't throw for a TD in preseaon last yr...

I think Tom Brady threw a pick 6...

Boy they are just awful lol...but seriously I don't see why Kap can't throw up Cam Newton type stats with chip. We NEED to have a better OL regardless of who's back there (which I think we've started going in the right direction) and we NEED to get the running game going before anything else.

Neither QB we have is gonna slice up secondaries, but I do think Kap brings another element in the running game compared to Blaine. Yes we know Blaine had one amazing run that no bear saw coming, but let's not get ahead of ourselves on that front lol.


Both will probably start at some point but IMO Kap is the more dangerous of the two QBs...hell there's even been DCs that said it would be hell to game plan for a Chip/Kap.

Though, from what I saw of Chip's system on film, the QB running portion of the game is not needing a top flight runner to be successful. Even when he had Vick running the show, the speed element of the QB wasn't as big of an issue. Chip uses the QB as a part of his horizontal stretch scheme to spread out the defense even more and provide good angles in a zone blocking scheme - which most ZBS don't provide. A speed element from the QB could make it more lethal, when employed, but it's not going to make the overall scheme any more effective IMO. The handoff to the RB is based off a read, not the QB's athleticism. From what I saw, it was a low percentage of the plays that the read allowed for a QB run. Most teams, no matter who was playing QB, weren't going to give the guy a free run around the end. So, the running attempts for CK wouldn't skyrocket compared to Bradford or Foles IMO. And overall, I think it's a minority element among the requirements for a QB in Chip's system.

If it was so important, why did Chip trade Foles for Bradford instead of a guy like Tyrod Taylor or another running QB?

The ability of the QB to make sharp, accurate throws is still far more important in a Chip system than the running element - it's why he has said it, over and over and over again.

Originally posted by mojave45:

If Kaepernick was such a perfect fit for Kelly's offense as his fanatical fans believe there shouldn't even be a competition. I mean here he is, until mid last season our undisputed starter since he took over, and he has to compete with a failed QB,that was almost out of the league. To hear his supporters tell it, the only way Kap could not start is some dark scheme involving nefarious "politics" .

My belief is that if he doesn't start, it is because he lacks the repetitive accuracy and quick decision making Kelly will require.

I even heard some whining that he couldn't be expected to fix all those issues in a "few weeks" under Kelly. I agree. He should have been working on those issues for a few years.

There really shouldn't be a competition. As the long term starter Kap should know the quirks and habits of his team, have a deep rapport with his receivers and RB(Hyde), and be well respected and embraced by his team mates. If he isn't, and doesn't have those things nailed down by now, that isn't politics, that is just sad.

I know his followers are scrambling to cover all the ridiculous statements they made during the past off season, where basically every person except him is to blame, but there is no one to blame but Kap himself if he loses the head to head competition.

Kelly may well choose Kaepernick over Gabbert. Given their respective career numbers it shouldn't even be a dicussion. The fact that it is not only a discussion,but one that is coming down to a preseason decision should be troubling to all 49er fans.

I don't personally believe Gabbert has shown what it takes to be the QB of the future for us, so it is a bad place to be thinking Kap is at the level where he hasn't beaten this guy out by now.

Fanatical fanatics?

We get it, you don't like him as a QB. Does it really bother you that there are Kaep fans in the Kaep thread? If Kaep is as terrible as you say he is than things will work out the way you think they will. Or maybe your afraid that Kaep may end up winning the starting job and your just mad that not everyone agrees with your opinion. There are other threads in NT that you can post in besides this one, you know?

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by mojave45:

If Kaepernick was such a perfect fit for Kelly's offense as his fanatical fans believe there shouldn't even be a competition. I mean here he is, until mid last season our undisputed starter since he took over, and he has to compete with a failed QB,that was almost out of the league. To hear his supporters tell it, the only way Kap could not start is some dark scheme involving nefarious "politics" .

My belief is that if he doesn't start, it is because he lacks the repetitive accuracy and quick decision making Kelly will require.

I even heard some whining that he couldn't be expected to fix all those issues in a "few weeks" under Kelly. I agree. He should have been working on those issues for a few years.

There really shouldn't be a competition. As the long term starter Kap should know the quirks and habits of his team, have a deep rapport with his receivers and RB(Hyde), and be well respected and embraced by his team mates. If he isn't, and doesn't have those things nailed down by now, that isn't politics, that is just sad.

I know his followers are scrambling to cover all the ridiculous statements they made during the past off season, where basically every person except him is to blame, but there is no one to blame but Kap himself if he loses the head to head competition.

Kelly may well choose Kaepernick over Gabbert. Given their respective career numbers it shouldn't even be a dicussion. The fact that it is not only a discussion,but one that is coming down to a preseason decision should be troubling to all 49er fans.

I don't personally believe Gabbert has shown what it takes to be the QB of the future for us, so it is a bad place to be thinking Kap is at the level where he hasn't beaten this guy out by now.

I hear what you're saying and I get it for sure (and yes we disagree on this front it's all good )....I will continue to state he's been throwing the football for what week and a half after not being able to do so for 7 months and 3 surgeries.

Accuracy is important but we saw with Foles/Bradford Chip's offense makes a QB more accurate (look at Philly numbers vs Rams). As far as rapport goes who says he doesn't I mean the practice before yesterday he had a great outing throwing for like 4 TDs I believe.

Nothing wrong with a QB competition IMO.

I agree there is nothing wrong with a competion. My comments about that were a general response to the snark I get from a couple of posters when any criticism at all is made of Kap, and certainly does not include your posts.

I don't know that Kap does or doesn't have that rapport with his team mates, he may well have, but sitting here as a fan I have heard far too much discussion about it to dismiss it out of hand.

Yes, Kelly has made other QB's look more accurate. He may be able to do that, he may choose differently. A couple of weeks will tell.

I am not one of the fans that believe Gabbert is a slam dunk answer at QB. I have concerns with both of them. I come off more critical about Kap because when I post anything critical his attack squad gets involved. Then I respond in kind.

I would be very happy if it turns out that your faith in Kap is proven to be correct! That would be good for us. The difference is that I won't believe it until I see it.

Originally posted by mojave45:

If Kaepernick was such a perfect fit for Kelly's offense as his fanatical fans believe there shouldn't even be a competition. I mean here he is, until mid last season our undisputed starter since he took over, and he has to compete with a failed QB,that was almost out of the league. To hear his supporters tell it, the only way Kap could not start is some dark scheme involving nefarious "politics" .

My belief is that if he doesn't start, it is because he lacks the repetitive accuracy and quick decision making Kelly will require.

I even heard some whining that he couldn't be expected to fix all those issues in a "few weeks" under Kelly. I agree. He should have been working on those issues for a few years.

There really shouldn't be a competition. As the long term starter Kap should know the quirks and habits of his team, have a deep rapport with his receivers and RB(Hyde), and be well respected and embraced by his team mates. If he isn't, and doesn't have those things nailed down by now, that isn't politics, that is just sad.

I know his followers are scrambling to cover all the ridiculous statements they made during the past off season, where basically every person except him is to blame, but there is no one to blame but Kap himself if he loses the head to head competition.

Kelly may well choose Kaepernick over Gabbert. Given their respective career numbers it shouldn't even be a dicussion. The fact that it is not only a discussion,but one that is coming down to a preseason decision should be troubling to all 49er fans.

I don't personally believe Gabbert has shown what it takes to be the QB of the future for us, so it is a bad place to be thinking Kap is at the level where he hasn't beaten this guy out by now.

Well said, Mojave.

And Jonnydel just summarized the entire Kap saga here. He should be well ,well, ahead of where he is now...both QBs finally have a great QB coach in chip, and a great playcaller...in chip. No excuses, just can he produce or not. And "produce" for both QBs means at a 5th to 6th yr level. Our OL is going to be superb this yr, wth 7 bona fide starters. Last yr we had one, Staley, or two when Kilgore was healthy. An OL stickey wicket would be if Kilgore goes down and we have no C replacement . That is our one POTENTIAL OL weakness, but bet on one of the OGs, Balducci or someone claimed off waivers as the C replacement if needed. Martin isn't going to get a chance to screw up the O again. That aside, an injury to KIlgore, this is going to be one kick ass OL. Just need a QB to get behind it and show his stuff. It has been 2 1/2 yrs since we have seen good QB play. That ends this yr.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
Though, from what I saw of Chip's system on film, the QB running portion of the game is not needing a top flight runner to be successful. Even when he had Vick running the show, the speed element of the QB wasn't as big of an issue. Chip uses the QB as a part of his horizontal stretch scheme to spread out the defense even more and provide good angles in a zone blocking scheme - which most ZBS don't provide. A speed element from the QB could make it more lethal, when employed, but it's not going to make the overall scheme any more effective IMO. The handoff to the RB is based off a read, not the QB's athleticism. From what I saw, it was a low percentage of the plays that the read allowed for a QB run. Most teams, no matter who was playing QB, weren't going to give the guy a free run around the end. So, the running attempts for CK wouldn't skyrocket compared to Bradford or Foles IMO. And overall, I think it's a minority element among the requirements for a QB in Chip's system.

If it was so important, why did Chip trade Foles for Bradford instead of a guy like Tyrod Taylor or another running QB?

The ability of the QB to make sharp, accurate throws is still far more important in a Chip system than the running element - it's why he has said it, over and over and over again.

Chip was getting a 11th year in the league Vick and as much as everyone hates Kap he is actually more accurate than him. So you're saying Kap isn't great at the read option compared to say Blaine? I will disagree with that. I also disagree having a great running threat that can blast out a 70 yard run on any given option doesn't help with scheme.

You also saw Bradford/Foles/Sanchez running the read option (low % of runs) not someone like Kap big difference. MM ran for something like 800 yards with Chip so yeah it can be a BIG part to a QBs game when they actually can do it....there's no point to running a read option if the QB isn't a threat to run IMO.

You throw out Taylor but up until last yr he'd done zero in the league lol poor example IMO. Bradford offered the other element needed in chip's system he's known for being accurate. Plus there were talks of him trying to trade Bradford and other assists to get Mariota.

Also I never said accuracy wasn't important... Blaine Gabbert's career comp % is 56% kap's is 60%

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Chip was getting a 11th year in the league Vick and as much as everyone hates Kap he is actually more accurate than him. So you're saying Kap isn't great at the read option compared to say Blaine? I will disagree with that. I also disagree having a great running threat that can blast out a 70 yard run on any given option doesn't help with scheme.

You also saw Bradford/Foles/Sanchez running the read option (low % of runs) not someone like Kap big difference. MM ran for something like 800 yards with Chip so yeah it can be a BIG part to a QBs game when they actually can do it....there's no point to running a read option if the QB isn't a threat to run IMO.

You throw out Taylor but up until last yr he'd done zero in the league lol poor example IMO. Bradford offered the other element needed in chip's system he's known for being accurate. Plus there were talks of him trying to trade Bradford and other assists to get Mariota.

Also I never said accuracy wasn't important... Blaine Gabbert's career comp % is 56% kap's is 60%

Well said. And to your last sentence, Blaine's career comp % is 4% less than Kap yet he is known as a Captain Checkdown type of QB where the majority of his throws are closer to the LOS (easiest throw there is supposedly)...hmmm