Colin Kaepernick Thread

Kap needs to be able to take advantage of the tight ends. This is the key to beating teams like Seattle whose weakness is covering tight ends.

The real game that put Gabbert on my radar was the Seattle game. We never saw a QB in a Niners uniform do that against that team.

Originally posted by awp8912:

Originally posted by 49ers81:
Ahh, yes. The Kaepernick is a great runner theory. Kaepernick has a huge stride that eats up a lot of ground and when he gets around the corner into open space his speed and strength make him hard to bring down. But he seems to lack any kind of lateral quickness and rarely do you ever see him cause people to miss. He isn't a shifty runner at all, just has that sort of straight ahead speed. If you take the edge away from him or surround him with bodies you really limit what he can do to hurt you with his legs which forces him to beat you with his arm, which he is unable to to do consistently. That is what the defenses figured out about him the last two years and that is why he has been so ineffective. He has a slow release and hasn't demonstrated that he can make quick decisions with the ball to get it out of his hands that's one of the reasons he was getting sacked so much last year. He holds the ball too long looking for some deep throw down the field because, well I guess it looks cooler to throw the ball fifty yards rather than five. But time after time after time you would see guys on the sports shows breaking down some play where Kaepernick got sacked or threw the ball away and pointing out, "well, this guy is open and this guy is open and this guy is open" on the underneath routes but he simply wouldn't pull the trigger in time to make it happen. Maybe this is something Kelly can fix, maybe not. I guess we'll find out in preseason.

Man so many people are getting it twisted. No one's saying Kap will rush for 1200 yards. We are saying Defenses HAVE to plan for Kap's mobility. They will NOT be planning for Gabbert at ALL! This is a certainty! No debate or opinion. That is Kap's advantage here in this offense and it's the first time since Mariota that this will happen.

Kap's threat to run will allow him to have more time to throw the football which again is an advantage compared to Gabbert.

Defenses have already proven they can take away his running game, they've done it for the past two years. They don't HAVE to plan for his "mobility" because it has already been demonstrated that he doesn't really have any. He is a straight line runner with good speed, he is not, as I said, particularly shifty or mobile the way someone like Russell Wilson is, who is still driving defenses nuts with his scrambling ability. That is something you can't really defend against.

There was a play against the Falcons I think last year where Gabbert had to scramble out of the pocket and he sort of weaved his way through all of these defenders and got the ball down to the 1 yard line. Every time I watch that play I think,Kaepernick could never have done that because his stride is too long. Someone posted somewhere earlier that while Kaepernick had a better time in the 40 Gabbert was better in all of the agility drills which I think is an important distinction to make. If they don't plan for Gabbert that will be fine with me because it means he will have more opportunities to beat them, like he did in Chicago.

Kaep has the propensity to run with the ball and gash defenses with his running, especially early in his career. Defenses had limited that. If Gabbert decided to run with the ball with more frequency, defenses have to be aware of that too, because at 4.62 that's very good foot speed for a qb to make them pay if they don't look for it.

Right now Gabbert isn't known for a running qb, because he doesn't depend on running with the ball as much as other reputable running qb. Make no mistake, he has wheels.

Kaep has had 2 rushing tds in 2 seasons. Teams took away his running ability and made him play QB, that's the problem... He's a run first QB, you limit that and suddenly he has nothing left but leading the league in sacks.

Now if Kaep could do both he'd be great, but he is an awful passing QB as we've seen in his 20th plus passing statistics since he's become 1/2 dimenional in the passing game. By 1/2 dimenional I mean the only thing he's good at is every once in a while squeezing a rocket through a tight window. Pretty as hell, but it does no good when he can't read defenses and runs at the slightest hint of paranoid pressure.

He was benched for a reason. I know injuries played a role, but that's not the only reason. If injuries were the only reason, why would he be mad at the FO for benching him?

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Kaep has the propensity to run with the ball and gash defenses with his running, especially early in his career. Defenses had limited that. If Gabbert decided to run with the ball with more frequency, defenses have to be aware of that too, because at 4.62 that's very good foot speed for a qb to make them pay if they don't look for it.

Right now Gabbert isn't known for a running qb, because he doesn't depend on running with the ball as much as other reputable running qb. Make no mistake, he has wheels.

I HAAAATE to bring up this name because of the drama it incites but in this regard Gabbert reminds me of Alex Smith. It isn't the part of his game he puts on front street...but it is there when he needs it, Gabbert is legit athletic. If you sleep on him and leave that stuff unprotected he can easily take advantage of it. He is definitely mobile enough that we will not need to change the game plan no matter who wins the competition. We might feature the run more with Kap to set up the pass and do the reverse with Gabbert but they both have the physical talent to run every play and throw every route in the Chip playbook. The victory in the battle for starting QB is going to take place between the ears not with their bodies.

Originally posted by 49ers81:
Defenses have already proven they can take away his running game, they've done it for the past two years. They don't HAVE to plan for his "mobility" because it has already been demonstrated that he doesn't really have any. He is a straight line runner with good speed, he is not, as I said, particularly shifty or mobile the way someone like Russell Wilson is, who is still driving defenses nuts with his scrambling ability. That is something you can't really defend against.

There was a play against the Falcons I think last year where Gabbert had to scramble out of the pocket and he sort of weaved his way through all of these defenders and got the ball down to the 1 yard line. Every time I watch that play I think,Kaepernick could never have done that because his stride is too long. Someone posted somewhere earlier that while Kaepernick had a better time in the 40 Gabbert was better in all of the agility drills which I think is an important distinction to make. If they don't plan for Gabbert that will be fine with me because it means he will have more opportunities to beat them, like he did in Chicago.

Doesn't matter what you say or what your opinion is. Defenses will ALWAYS plan for Kap's mobility because his mobility is ALWAYS there at any given moment. Geez are you really going to pretend that defenses don't plan for that, because he was shut down 2 weeks ago?

Agility drills? Go read any Defensive leader/coordinate talk about defending Kap and then ask them the same questions about Gabbert. Again forget your opinion, defenses will ALWAYS account for the playoff single game rushing leader stat holder over the guy that ran 40 yards against CHI.

Originally posted by FapForGab:
Kaep has had 2 rushing tds in 2 seasons. Teams took away his running ability and made him play QB, that's the problem... He's a run first QB, you limit that and suddenly he has nothing left but leading the league in sacks.

Now if Kaep could do both he'd be great, but he is an awful passing QB as we've seen in his 20th plus passing statistics since he's become 1/2 dimenional in the passing game. By 1/2 dimenional I mean the only thing he's good at is every once in a while squeezing a rocket through a tight window. Pretty as hell, but it does no good when he can't read defenses and runs at the slightest hint of paranoid pressure.

He was benched for a reason. I know injuries played a role, but that's not the only reason. If injuries were the only reason, why would he be mad at the FO for benching him?

Omg once again the point is lost. You said it yourself, "teams took away...". Teams took away means teams defended his running attack vigilantly. No teams were doing that to Nick FOles, or Sam Bradford or will do that with Gabbert. That's what Kap will have an advantage of in Chip Kelly's offense. That will buy him a little more time to get the passes out quicker.

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:

Originally posted by mojave45:

Originally posted by sdaddy101269:

Originally posted by awp8912:

Originally posted by RonMexico:

You're confusing, "has this QB ever ran the ball before.." and "do defenses have to account for this QB hurting them on the ground".

No defense will treat Gabbert as a running threat, in fact one can argue that is the very reason he made that highlight you posted.

Unless Gabbert goes out of his way to rush for 600+ yards this season (which is not likely as dude hasn't been rocked as a runner in the NFL yet, I doubt he's tough enough to make it, uninjured), he will not be treated as a running threat and thus the passing game under Chip Kelly will not have the advantage or success it had early on.

Exactly! IMO this choice is make or break for Chip's offensive philosophy in the NFL. He has MANY detractors that say it won't work, that it's a college offense, it's too simple etc. Kaep would be the FIRST QB he's had that has experience and the physical tools necessary to run his offense. Vick, for all his speed, didn't run a option type of offense prior to working with Chip. If you're Chip do you risk your career with a guy that really doesn't completely fit your offense? There's a reason Chip was willing to trade away all those picks for Marriota, there are a LOT of guys with the same arm talent as him but very few with the running ability.

I disagree. Chip does need a QB that can run the ball when necessary, but primarily needs one that will repetitively make quick, correct reads, and throws a quick ball accurately. When people quit respecting Kap's passing, and primarily prepared to contain his running, his game has suffered. Chip doesn't need a QB to run for 800yards for his offense to be successful. He needs the opposing D to understand his QB CAN run if he needs, or wants to. A mobile QB, but one that has his passing game be his first priority, and running isn't on his mind every single play after his first read.

I disagree. Despite what you say look at the HISTORY of his successful QBs, they were all Uber athletic, not guys who could just run. Don't confuse Gabberts measurables with athleticism. He had a good run at Chicago because he surprised them. He won't surprise anyone anymore and that's the difference. Can he run when the defense plans for it? We know Kaep can. Nick Foles had 27 passing tds and 2 INTs and was let go. Why? Because he could be defended at the mesh point. 'People' didn't stop respecting Kaep, they stopped respecting our scheme. That's why Harbs was so effective, you can't stop respecting a team that you can't keep from running the ball. Last couple of years we've been s**t upfront and team knew it. Teams could stop the run and bring consistent pressure without bringing an extra guy down in the box, something we USED to be able to do and terrorize QBs. Go back and watch Philly and Oregon under Chip and show me these quick throws, outside of slant routes, that don't show up on tape. Also, the ONE thing that has plagued Chip throughout his career is the lack of a power run game when the playoffs start. Whether it's been in the NFL or college it's why (along with defenses that weren't physical enough) his team's have struggled to win in those situations late in games. I hope to see more power run formations (21-22 sets assuming Bruce Miller sticks) to combat that lack of physicality his team's have lacked.

Nice post! What's up with everyone this morning?

I agree, partially. There has to be some respect for the run of course. I don't remember saying other teams lost their respect for Kap's game, I said it suffered when he was contained. That meant they spent more time worrying about that than other aspects of his game, imo. Also aagree about Harbaugh and his power rrunning, and Chip not having had that.

That said, I think Gabbert is more athletic than you at be giving him credit for, but we will have to wait and see about that, so I don't claim it to be fact.

Originally posted by awp8912:

Doesn't matter what you say or what your opinion is. Defenses will ALWAYS plan for Kap's mobility because his mobility is ALWAYS there at any given moment. Geez are you really going to pretend that defenses don't plan for that, because he was shut down 2 weeks ago?

Agility drills? Go read any Defensive leader/coordinate talk about defending Kap and then ask them the same questions about Gabbert. Again forget your opinion, defenses will ALWAYS account for the playoff single game rushing leader stat holder over the guy that ran 40 yards against CHI.

That's all teams have to focus on though, his running game. Take that away and statistically he's horrible. When he can't run, the defense already knows he can't pass. Once the league figured this out he's struggled.

Originally posted by qnnhan7:
Kaep has the propensity to run with the ball and gash defenses with his running, especially early in his career. Defenses had limited that. If Gabbert decided to run with the ball with more frequency, defenses have to be aware of that too, because at 4.62 that's very good foot speed for a qb to make them pay if they don't look for it.

Right now Gabbert isn't known for a running qb, because he doesn't depend on running with the ball as much as other reputable running qb. Make no mistake, he has wheels.

And wait until he gets hit the first time trying to be cute. Sorry if you think it's that easy to be a mobile QB than watch out. Dude will get lit up. And I doubt dude even has the cardio to go that hard on the ground and man a fast chip kelly offensive attack. Again Kap is perfect for this offense. Kap is the "I dont get tired" QB.

Originally posted by awp8912:

Omg once again the point is lost. You said it yourself, "teams took away...". Teams took away means teams defended his running attack vigilantly. No teams were doing that to Nick FOles, or Sam Bradford or will do that with Gabbert. That's what Kap will have an advantage of in Chip Kelly's offense. That will buy him a little more time to get the passes out quicker.

Yeah teams figured out once you take that away he's useless.

Originally posted by FapForGab:
That's all teams have to focus on though, his running game. Take that away and statistically he's horrible. When he can't run, the defense already knows he can't pass. Once the league figured this out he's struggled.

That's not the point, the idea is that Chip Kelly's system when it comes to the passing game will open things up for Kap since defenses will be focused on his mobility over the new passing attack. I'm not saying Kap will flourish, I'm saying he has an advantage out the gate over Gabbert.

Well, I think Gabbert went into camp with an advantage, and I think Kaepernick is starting to make up some ground. Look, the fact of the matter is, that battle is going to be won on the football field this summer. You speak to people in the 49ers organization, they say that we've got quarterback 1a and 1b, that's how closely they say they view it at this time. And so, if it is that close, then clearly it's decided on the field. Someone is going to step up and play well in the preseason under Chip Kelly's system, and somebody's not. Somebody's going to play better than the other quarterback, and whoever does that there wins that job. I think they're completely open to either quarterback starting right now, with Colin Kaepernick closing some of the ground that Blaine Gabbert had had when he took all of the reps with the first team offense during the OTAs. - Adam Schefter

http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/8/9/12414572/49ers-starting-qb-this-week-not-decided-adam-schefter-says-close-competition

Originally posted by Jcool:
Well, I think Gabbert went into camp with an advantage, and I think Kaepernick is starting to make up some ground. Look, the fact of the matter is, that battle is going to be won on the football field this summer. You speak to people in the 49ers organization, they say that we've got quarterback 1a and 1b, that's how closely they say they view it at this time. And so, if it is that close, then clearly it's decided on the field. Someone is going to step up and play well in the preseason under Chip Kelly's system, and somebody's not. Somebody's going to play better than the other quarterback, and whoever does that there wins that job. I think they're completely open to either quarterback starting right now, with Colin Kaepernick closing some of the ground that Blaine Gabbert had had when he took all of the reps with the first team offense during the OTAs. - Adam Schefter

http://www.ninersnation.com/2016/8/9/12414572/49ers-starting-qb-this-week-not-decided-adam-schefter-says-close-competition

The only gauge to Kelly's system is against other teams. 11 v 11 drills, where the Niner defense basically knows Kap like the back of their hands are meaningless. Until preseason starts we won't know anything. I don't put much weight on people's opinions in the org. based off of practice. This whole theory can only be tested against a real opponent.

Originally posted by awp8912:

Originally posted by 49ers81:

Ahh, yes. The Kaepernick is a great runner theory. Kaepernick has a huge stride that eats up a lot of ground and when he gets around the corner into open space his speed and strength make him hard to bring down. But he seems to lack any kind of lateral quickness and rarely do you ever see him cause people to miss. He isn't a shifty runner at all, just has that sort of straight ahead speed. If you take the edge away from him or surround him with bodies you really limit what he can do to hurt you with his legs which forces him to beat you with his arm, which he is unable to to do consistently. That is what the defenses figured out about him the last two years and that is why he has been so ineffective. He has a slow release and hasn't demonstrated that he can make quick decisions with the ball to get it out of his hands that's one of the reasons he was getting sacked so much last year. He holds the ball too long looking for some deep throw down the field because, well I guess it looks cooler to throw the ball fifty yards rather than five. But time after time after time you would see guys on the sports shows breaking down some play where Kaepernick got sacked or threw the ball away and pointing out, "well, this guy is open and this guy is open and this guy is open" on the underneath routes but he simply wouldn't pull the trigger in time to make it happen. Maybe this is something Kelly can fix, maybe not. I guess we'll find out in preseason.

Man so many people are getting it twisted. No one's saying Kap will rush for 1200 yards. We are saying Defenses HAVE to plan for Kap's mobility. They will NOT be planning for Gabbert at ALL! This is a certainty! No debate or opinion. That is Kap's advantage here in this offense and it's the first time since Mariota that this will happen.

Kap's threat to run will allow him to have more time to throw the football which again is an advantage compared to Gabbert.

I think you are incorrect about this... Having Kap back there with a quickly collapsing pocket due to not having extra blockers is a recipe for disaster. He won't have "extra time to throw the ball" lol. He will have less. Seriously less than he used to have, and he will have that on every play. Defenses will be able to penetrate, but if they aren't careful that opens up Kelly's passing lanes, abd again having a quick decision about who is the open guy, us much more important to keep the chains moving than a one read and do I run, situation. Having a great straight ahead run 4 or 5 times a season isn't what we need. We need a QB with quick accurate strikes that is mobile enough to get some yards when he has to. Not the other way around.