Colin Kaepernick Thread

Originally posted by qnnhan7:

Originally posted by Jcool:
WORST PLAYERS AT EVERY POSITION FOR WEEK 8

Quarterback: Colin Kaepernick, 49ers (-6.5)

Kaepernick makes his way back onto this team thanks to a poor performance against the St. Louis Rams. He finished with a -8.1 passing grade on the day, thanks in large part to his paltry under-pressure stats (3-of-13 for 12 yards). The 49ers' offense kept it simple, running a ton of play action and bootleg dumps to the flats, and Kaepernick struggled even to hit those. It's been a tough year for San Francisco quarterback, and he now sits with our second-worst grade among QBs this season.


https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/11/02/worst-players-at-every-position-for-week-8/

Felt like they only called the same handful of plays during the game. Our offense went into retard mode for Kaep.

If you can't scan the defense and see a wide open not even covered WR, you should be done. That wasn't his only mistake this year, but one that shows a lot of Kap being bad is on himself and not being able to slow the game down and see the field before the ball is snapped.

Originally posted by ayleswbj11:

We are severely over analyzing him as a QB. The simple truth is he's a guy on a terrible team with Terrible offensive coach who don't have a clue as to how to use him or even put an offense on the field. Yea many of you will get what you want. Another 49er QB who has been cast off. He will go to another team and be great again.

Don't forget he is part of a franchise who has had 5 winning seasons in 15 years

Originally posted by ayleswbj11:
We are severely over analyzing him as a QB. The simple truth is he's a guy on a terrible team with Terrible offensive coach who don't have a clue as to how to use him or even put an offense on the field. Yea many of you will get what you want. Another 49er QB who has been cast off. He will go to another team and be great again.

Don't forget he is part of a franchise who has had 5 winning seasons in 15 years

I still don't think some of you really get it though. It doesn't matter if he moves on somewhere and is great, odds are he will never be great here and his 16 mil + will slow down the rebuild process dramatically. I am not sure if he will rebound elsewhere...but I know it wont happen here for a couple of years maybe more and by then it will be too late anyway. Another year like this one and he will never, ever recover. It simply wont happen. So what miracle would have to occur for us to fix the entire line, find the right OC and get him a new TE, at least one more WR and probably one more back in a single offseason while still shoring up our badly lagging pass rush? The much smarter play is to send him on his way for whatever you can get, sign a cheap vet who while not being better is not going to be worse than 2015 model year Kap and draft a kid that WONT be ruined three years from now because you learned your lesson and brought him up the right way, unlike what you did with Kap.

Originally posted by Jakemall:
There's a difference between being able to crank out some formulas and get through them quickly as opposed to seeing the field at a glance. Brady is one of the best at seeing the field. No great arm, not fast, not athletic, but he sees the field. Not that Brees, Rogers and Manning don't..but they are all more athletic and were early round picks.

And let's not forget Montana on that list, of course. Average, to below average arm strength, but first rate pocket presence, vision and accuracy. The way QBs get measured and hyped out of college just seems wrong. I almost think you have to look at guys who are playing in big boy conferences for the teams that aren't as good, who have to exhibit resourcefulness and vision every week to escape getting killed. Look how serviceable Jeff Garcia was, spotted by Bill Walsh, and he was not even drafted.

Originally posted by ayleswbj11: He will go to another team and be great again.

Keep fighting the good fight bro. I imagine that no matter where he goes, when he continues to struggle, and he will continue to struggle because of how limited he is, you'll have a whole litany of excuses ready as to why its not working there either. You're acting as if he started screwing up this year but I'm seeing the same mistakes repeated, the previous coaching staff just did a better job of covering up for his many limitations.

Before it was only the really good teams that could make him look helpless, now any team with a halfway decent defense is pulling it off. Eitherway, he'll never be a guy to carry a team or develop the sort of mental acuity that a top notch QB needs.

Originally posted by Blindfury:

Originally posted by sacniner:
No, take responsibility for what's his part. For over a year everyone has tried to figure out Kap's psyche. Why is he non-functional for so many complete games? Why can't he hit basic reads when he has time to throw? Why is his accuracy so s**ty even when he has enough time? Remember, he as horrendous for a big part of last year also. When the line wasn't this atrocious.

The answers from some are that his o line sucks, he is shell shocked, etc. That's old. He needs to fix what is going on in between the ears. He fails time and time again when it falls on him. Do we make excuses for the o line's psyche? The coaching staff? Vernon?

Even on a team this bad, Kap needs to be functional. Hit the easy stuff and do what he can. He hasn't and I guess we can go back to trying to simplify stuff more and feel bad for him because he's a starting NFL QB getting paid a s**t load of money who is "shell shocked."

He was poor in a few games last year. I can name many other QBs that had bad stretches as well. He was nowhere near this bad last year.

He has lost his confidence. It's clear. When a QB loses his confidence he sucks. This is where we are. With all that said, everything is connected on offense...line, running game, receivers, coaching, gameplan. Where has our OC's offenses ranked in his career as a OC? Do you have the numbers? His offenses have all ranked near last in the league. What a shock that the current one is dead last with a dead last line.

Let me ask you a question. Before the season started, what did you expect from the offense?

Yeah, our OC sucks. Although, He had Ryan Leaf and the rest of that garbage in SD and now he has this. Context man, context. Geep probably has MORE excuses than Kap, although, it doesn't fit your narrative. He has no o line, injuries and WR and RB and a QB that has tunnel vision and does not belong on an NFL field right now.

Do you have solution for ANY OC that would be calling plays for the Niners? What do you do? Simplify the offense more (you literally can't)? You have no o line, and yes, no QB.

Kap was s**t for a lot of last year. He got the benefit of the doubt and is worse this year.

In re to your question, I knew we weren't going to be good. Maybe 6-10 range, although, I didn't think this. I thought we have Boldin still, signed Torrey, have Hyde, VD still AND we have Kap. But god, this is a joke. Worst offense in the NFL, all emotions aside. We literally have the worst offense in the NFL. I was expecting middle of the pack to slightly below.

My main point, is counter to "he lost his confidence" excuse. What is your point w/ that? Doesn't an NFL player have to be mentally stronger? Isn't that BIG time red flag? You think the great ones lose confidence for over a year and become non-functional? Its not all physical ability when it comes to QB'ing in the NFL. Kap has an issue between the ears, even according to you. So, for now, he's toast

Originally posted by BSofSF:

Originally posted by Jakemall:
There's a difference between being able to crank out some formulas and get through them quickly as opposed to seeing the field at a glance. Brady is one of the best at seeing the field. No great arm, not fast, not athletic, but he sees the field. Not that Brees, Rogers and Manning don't..but they are all more athletic and were early round picks.

And let's not forget Montana on that list, of course. Average, to below average arm strength, but first rate pocket presence, vision and accuracy. The way QBs get measured and hyped out of college just seems wrong. I almost think you have to look at guys who are playing in big boy conferences for the teams that aren't as good, who have to exhibit resourcefulness and vision every week to escape getting killed. Look how serviceable Jeff Garcia was, spotted by Bill Walsh, and he was not even drafted.

You're absolutely correct. Montana was the first one to spring to my mind for obvious reasons...BUT..I was trying to stick to QBs still in the game.

Originally posted by ayleswbj11:
We are severely over analyzing him as a QB. The simple truth is he's a guy on a terrible team with Terrible offensive coach who don't have a clue as to how to use him or even put an offense on the field. Yea many of you will get what you want. Another 49er QB who has been cast off. He will go to another team and be great again.

Don't forget he is part of a franchise who has had 5 winning seasons in 15 years

Originally posted by ayleswbj11:

We are severely over analyzing him as a QB. The simple truth is he's a guy on a terrible team with Terrible offensive coach who don't have a clue as to how to use him or even put an offense on the field. Yea many of you will get what you want. Another 49er QB who has been cast off. He will go to another team and be great again.

Don't forget he is part of a franchise who has had 5 winning seasons in 15 years

I've been one of the biggest supporters of Kap. I think the team and coaching staff put around him is a reason for his poor play, but at this point I think the best thing to do is bench him. Putting him behind that line with this loser coaching staff isn't gonna help him at all. IF SF wants to keep Kap around let him sit and clear his head...if not I think a trade would be the best bet.

I think he can salvage his career but it might not be in SF...my biggest issue if they let him go is this current staff with a rookie QB . Throwing any QB back there let alone a rookie is bad news bears.

Originally posted by Jakemall:

People don't bring that up much..but yeah..the halt of forward progression when there was no whistle was BS.

I live in NY and almost got in a couple fights bringing that up at the bar lol...NY fans get real upset when you bring that play up because they know!

Originally posted by Blindfury:

Originally posted by eastie:

How does a QB go from leading a comeback in the playoffs at Atlanta just two years ago to the guy that doesn't even see that his WR is uncovered at the line of scrimmage? What has happened here? Kap is not unintelligent. His wonderlick score testifies to that. My guess is that the psychology of the coaching staff and management has confounded the guy into paralysis. What sort of instructions is he being given? What philosophy is being used by management and the coaching staff? " Colin, do what we tell you to do. It's the right thing to do, regardless." Are there false promises being made here? The kid was ballin and now he cant even accomplish the most basic acts on the field. His talent didn't just disappear one night never to return. Something happened. Something that isn't being discussed. Somebody did or said something to him and he's following that to his own determent. Something stinks here and it's a lot more than the current QB...

Confidence. A QB consistently running for his life will eventually start to not trust his line and start to see pressure that isn't there. He'll stop focussing his eyes downfield and stop seeing open players. A QB does not just stop making tight window throws and back shoulder throws like Kaep used to to not even wanting to throw the ball. While his biggest detractors will say "he got figured out" it has nothing to do with that and all to do with confidence on his part and a whole bunch of other things on the team.

this is a good post...QBs and just NFL players are expected to have short term memories....and to make sure it doesn't affect them in their very next play/drive/game etc....

and Kap used to be good at that. When some liked him, it was because he didn't "blink"...and didn't let previous plays affect him. Like a turnover against the Packers in his very first playoff game...would always bounce back...

but that can only go far with some players. There was a play a few weeks ago that some said that Gabbert could've made...and I agreed, but Gabbert that just came into the game yes....but imo, not Gabbert as if he had started the season..or the previous game. Our Oline has been horrendous...and I can understand how it can affect him on the little things... to the point where we are backed up in the endzone...and the coaches are saying we are going to run the ball to give our punter space...just fixated on getting the snap and making sure there isn't a misexchange with the rookie FB.....all that and not expecting the defense to crash there CBs and have one Safety not be in position to cover the WR.


All an excuse...but all understable, imo.

The question is, if the reluctance to fix the Oline is f**king with Kap...the we should give Gab a shot...or some who would love to just "move on" from Kap.

So do you move on from a QB that has shown potential..has performed in pressure situations? because of other obvious factors with the team?

or stick it out.

Season is about over...I don't really care... as much as I'd like Kap to bounce back and we win some games...I'd hate for that to mean Tomsula and these coaches to be brought back....LIKE REALLY HATE IT.

I still want and expect Kap to be with us in the future...but I wouldn't be against having Gabbert brought in so that the firing of these coaches will actually happen....If Gabs plays miraculously and we go on a playoff run great....if not Tomusla ousted. Eitherway Kap can be healthy for next year (or for some, we save on his injury clause...lol)

But again...I personally think that they feel he is being delt a bad situation...and he is their best bet to save their jobs...but unfortunately, these same minds also thought and continue to think that Devey and Pears are also their best bet to save their jobs.

So what ever happens happens...Kap gets traded, great for him.

we get draft picks and Tomsula for another season, while searching for the next best franchise QB for hopefully a few years to come...but realistically..you never know when you'll find a QB. Especially with this coaching staff and their standard for an oline....as well as the judgement of the owner and his hiring abilities..and who would realistically want to work for him.

basically imo...we are f**ked for a very long time...with Kap or without. Having Kap, there is a chance we can bring in coaches like say Hue Jackson who believe they can improve him.

I don't know if the right type of coach would come in here with looking for a QB on the fly...unless it's a coach that just wants to cash in on a 3 year deal for a few millions.

/rant

Oh how soon we forget! But really, the game is about "what have you done for me lately"?

What's lost in all of this is what happens when you have poor coaching and a poor O-line.

QB's get a little shell shock when they get hit and under pressure a lot. I guess a lot of people here have forgotten the days of Alex Smith when he would throw the ball out of bounds and hit the deck a lot when he though that things were closing in on him.

Same thing has happened to Colin Kaepernick and it's going to happen to whoever takes his place as long as the 49er's keep the same coaches and don't fix the O-line.

Those of you who think that Gabbert will do a lot better, better think again. At the current state of the 49er's, NO QB is going to shine in this system.

Yes, Kaep has regressed and it's time for him to go elsewhere where he can get is confidence back. Right now and for the lack of a better word "He's a broken QB" and will NOT improve anytime soon. Bottom line is: He needs a new system. I just feel sorry for the next QB in line who is going to get sacked and pressured just as much as Alex and Colin with an inadequate system.

Originally posted by BSofSF:
I don't put a lot of stock in Wonderlic test for football players. It may be an indicator of how quickly a guy can absorb an NFL playbook. Obviously QBs have to be able to memorize a big, complex playbook in most NFL offenses, so there is some relevance. But more important than actual IQ is field vision, and Kaepernick's is poor.

You would think studying lots of college game tape on a prospect would reveal that player's vision and judgment. Kaepernick probably slipped through because his spread offense in a flimsy conference didn't put all of his faculties to the test. At Reno it was good enough to have a rocket arm and run like a gazelle in the open field, so there weren't a lot of opportunities on tape to judge his "football intelligence".

The fact that this unraveling scenario with Kaepernick was so predictable (and predicted in the webzone) is an indictment on Baalke. Anyone who watched a few minutes of the Chiefs game before the Niners game could see that Alex Smith is a superior QB to Kaepernick. Baalke needs to go too. Way to many unforced errors with this guy, and big ones. Trading Smith too early, running Harbaugh off, poor drafts despite bundles of picks ... They are becoming unwatchable.

Drafting QBs is a major crap shoot. It is a rarity when a college QB faces what he will in the pros. It is only a guess how they will transition. If my memory serves me right the only USC QB to do respectable in the NFL the last 40 years is Carson Palmer, yet many have been drafted high. USC usually runs a pro style offense which helps with transition. Problem is USC usually gets top notch O-lineman and receivers, when you usually have 5 seconds to throw to guys that get open by 3 yards on a go route in college, no telling if you can throw guys open in 2.5 seconds in the NFL.

My god do some of you even read...once again nobody is saying Gab will be better. We are saying playing him is what is best for Kap and for the team long term. Leaving a guy who is shellshocked as you put it in the warzone and asking him to simply snap out of it is not going to fix anything. We aren't fixing the line or the coaching this year...so what good is leaving your QB in to continue to absorb hits and further regress going to do?

Originally posted by BobS:

Originally posted by BSofSF:
I don't put a lot of stock in Wonderlic test for football players. It may be an indicator of how quickly a guy can absorb an NFL playbook. Obviously QBs have to be able to memorize a big, complex playbook in most NFL offenses, so there is some relevance. But more important than actual IQ is field vision, and Kaepernick's is poor.

You would think studying lots of college game tape on a prospect would reveal that player's vision and judgment. Kaepernick probably slipped through because his spread offense in a flimsy conference didn't put all of his faculties to the test. At Reno it was good enough to have a rocket arm and run like a gazelle in the open field, so there weren't a lot of opportunities on tape to judge his "football intelligence".

The fact that this unraveling scenario with Kaepernick was so predictable (and predicted in the webzone) is an indictment on Baalke. Anyone who watched a few minutes of the Chiefs game before the Niners game could see that Alex Smith is a superior QB to Kaepernick. Baalke needs to go too. Way to many unforced errors with this guy, and big ones. Trading Smith too early, running Harbaugh off, poor drafts despite bundles of picks ... They are becoming unwatchable.

Drafting QBs is a major crap shoot. It is a rarity when a college QB faces what he will in the pros. It is only a guess how they will transition. If my memory serves me right the only USC QB to do respectable in the NFL the last 40 years is Carson Palmer, yet many have been drafted high. USC usually runs a pro style offense which helps with transition. Problem is USC usually gets top notch O-lineman and receivers, when you usually have 5 seconds to throw to guys that get open by 3 yards on a go route in college, no telling if you can throw guys open in 2.5 seconds in the NFL.

Yeah... we will definitely want a guy who is playing a more pro style of ball...Cook and Hackenberg come to mind. If they are not throwing from the pocket at all being asked to read at least half field coverage we need to take a pass.