49ers Offensive Line

What offensive line?
In addition to what has already been discussed, I really hope that Staley's awful showing during preseason was a function of not taking the preseason seriously.
But we've also seen Staley multiple times in his career blow it against some defensive linemen and then coming strong the following week. Who knows - we'll see.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Our Oline was like a car that got totaled and needed a overhaul and Kyle gave it a tune-up instead.

They have 3 1st rd picks on that starting OL & they spent $40M on a center who was also a 2nd rd pick.

True but:

We're fortunate to have Staley who's been with us what 13 years?

Tomlinson is a retread 1st rounder, and McGlinchy is young but solid.

Richburg has been injured and he came from the Giants who stunk up their own line and didn't bat an eye losing him.

Originally posted by StubbornRussian:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by StubbornRussian:

PFF has the Niners OL ranked at 16 with potential to be great if Tomlinson takes a step up and Richburg regains pre injury form. Seems about right to me and is why we didn't see any desperation by Lynch and co. And that is with CJ and Mullens behind them. JG will elevate their performance some or at least how they are perceived as the opposing defenses should have to stay more honest due to JGs arm talent. But if we take injuries at OL it could decide our fate.

https://www.pff.com/news/pro-nfl-offensive-line-rankings-all-32-teams-units-entering-2019

PFF is terrible at OL grades; probably their worst position grades. It's solid for other positions and units but this one, they've been called out many times on. A better system is football outsiders. They go more in depth for sure. I believe they adjusted ours to around 22nd which seems more accurate to me (obviously, with a healthy Richburg could improve this quite a bit).

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol/2018

Also, there are a few really good OL experts on Twitter that I'd recommend following too.

The link you posted shows them ranked 10th. Regardless I think Richburg is they key. If you play at a high level at center and the tackles that will cover some flaws at the other two positions.

16 run, 22 PP. About right.

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Kind of wondering if Brunskill would be first off the bench to play OT. He played all five line positions in the preseason, and while I noticed him struggle with power at times, he seemed to hold his ground for the most part.

Unless they pick up someone else, I would think yes. I wouldn't be comfortable with Skule at swing tackle.

Brunskill was clearly better in PP. Skule got schooled several times against speed rushes.

I'm more concerned about keeping these guys healthy so they can get some time playing together. The continuity of the group is often more important than the individual's ability. You could have 2 firsts and a couple second rounders in there but if they're hurt all the time they will never mesh as a group.

Originally posted by StubbornRussian:

The link you posted shows them ranked 10th. Regardless I think Richburg is they key. If you play at a high level at center and the tackles that will cover some flaws at the other two positions.

That's an older sound philosophy but in today's game, IDT's are too good now. You absolutely need one really good G to combat. Players like Buckner, Reed, Donald, etc. can wreck run blocking and blow up PP.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

I'm more concerned about keeping these guys healthy so they can get some time playing together. The continuity of the group is often more important than the individual's ability. You could have 2 firsts and a couple second rounders in there but if they're hurt all the time they will never mesh as a group.

Truth.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:

Kind of wondering if Brunskill would be first off the bench to play OT. He played all five line positions in the preseason, and while I noticed him struggle with power at times, he seemed to hold his ground for the most part.

Unless they pick up someone else, I would think yes. I wouldn't be comfortable with Skule at swing tackle.

Brunskill was clearly better in PP. Skule got schooled several times against speed rushes.

Both should easily be on the PS right now. Neither have any business being on an active 46. But I agree, Brunskill was more consistent. Skule is very poor and inconsistent. Bad technique and top heavy.

Originally posted by StubbornRussian:

The link you posted shows them ranked 10th. Regardless I think Richburg is they key. If you play at a high level at center and the tackles that will cover some flaws at the other two positions.

This. If Richburg is healthy and plays like he did previously in NY, the entire OL will look a whole lot better.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by ninerfan4life:
For those of you who think our oline is bad

#Chargers Week 1 Offensive Line:

LT Trent Scott (2nd-year UDFA, 125 career snaps)
LG Dan Feeney (PFF's No. 80 OG out of 81 last yr)
C Mike Pouncey (No. 29 out of 39 centers)
RG Michael Schofield (Negatively graded in both pass & run block)
RT Sam Tevi (No. 78 out of 80 OTs)

— Evan Silva (@evansilva) September 2, 2019

I don't think collectively, anybody thinks our OL is "bad." Probably rank around in the low 20's personally. It is bad at the things it needs to be great at to properly run the offense Kyle wants except zone blocking to set up play action - really good at that run blocking. But yeah, Chargers have been pounded with OL injuries and poor personnel moves there and it always catches up to them despite how explosive their offense can be at times.

In the 2016-2017 season, what was so great about the Falcons offensive line? That Shanahan offense led the league in scoring and yards per play.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
FWIW it's clear as day what kyle wants his OL to do...run blocking.

That shanahan/McVay espn article you could see what they both wanted to do on offense... It all starts with running ball. Whether people want to admit it or not, it's true. McVay didn't have some elite IOL group and just let his best guard walk.

The run game, sets up the pay-action and allows him to run the personnel he wants. People wanting elite PP at the guard positions who require high end contracts and top 50 picks probably need to realize it's not happing.

Just looking at past teams and how they built this team, Kyle will take avg PP and top end run-blocking at the guard spot. Is what it is.

Totally agree.

Although the LAR only gave up 89 hits (11th) to our 125 (31st) and only 33 sacks (8th best) to our 48 (25th) and were 2nd best in stuffed runs to our 25th. We also only had 7 rushing TD's (32nd) to their 26 (2nd).

...and I didn't see many kill shots on their QB.

So in the meaningful offensive line stats, while the philosophies are parallel, the production was night and day different.

If Kyle can produce an OL like this, I'd be elated! And we'd certainly be a playoff team, no question.

But to your other point, like I said this off season, I'll say it again for next year, don't expect any changes to the OL. Kyle seems perfectly content with this starting 5 unit and lack of quantity and quality depth.

Odds are, it's going to cost him.

I'm not willing to go that far.

If the OL stays healthy, the performance will be much better. As has been detailed, last season McGlinchy was a rookie still learning how to play at this level, and Richburg was physically incapable of doing what he was paid to do. The combination of those two factors put a good deal more pressure on the guards to stand in the gaps and play well - an impossible expectation.

Bobb McKittrick did not have a line of high draft picks but he made it work because his guys fit the Walsh system, and Walsh had healthy skill guys to do their jobs. Recall, the first SB win was with very average skill players, none of whom made the HOF.

Kyle has more depth and more experience this year in the skill players, hence, a healthy OL will look a lot better just because the rest of the pieces are fitting better.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by libertyforever:

Originally posted by OnTheClock:
Kind of wondering if Brunskill would be first off the bench to play OT. He played all five line positions in the preseason, and while I noticed him struggle with power at times, he seemed to hold his ground for the most part.

Unless they pick up someone else, I would think yes. I wouldn't be comfortable with Skule at swing tackle.

Brunskill was clearly better in PP. Skule got schooled several times against speed rushes.

Both should easily be on the PS right now. Neither have any business being on an active 46. But I agree, Brunskill was more consistent. Skule is very poor and inconsistent. Bad technique and top heavy.

eh, I'm not going to go that far.

Skule - yes, PS. Needs better footwork.

Brunskill - 53 for sure, likely 45. He can play all five spots in an emergency and is clearly the better choice right now for swing tackle.

If Coleman had not been lost, Skule would certainly be PS. I still like Brunskill on the 53.

Looking around the league at OLs, there has been some movement post-cuts. However, other than the dominoes that fell starting in Houston, everyone is looking for better OL performance and not finding it.

There is a dearth of quality OL players coming out of college. All the best big guys with strength AND agility are on the defensive side of the ball where their skill set can attack the QB. The less mobile guys are now on the offensive side of the ball trying to block all these quick guys that are better athletes than they are anyway. Only a very few QUICK big guys wind up on offense.

It is like comparing defensive backs and receivers. Why is it that two similar athletes wind up with one being a receiver and the other a DB? The DB has bad hands.

That is the comparison we are seeing with offensive linemen.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

I'd give Christian Westerman a call...he fits the Athletic profile kyle looks for, highly recruited player coming out of HS.

Don't see why not

Maybe ShanaLynch should call the NotreDame OLine coach (that coached McGlinchy) instead and offer him a consulting job.

He's currently the OL coach for the Bears

darn! Oh well, guess we have to stick with Benton.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

FWIW it's clear as day what kyle wants his OL to do...run blocking.

That shanahan/McVay espn article you could see what they both wanted to do on offense... It all starts with running ball. Whether people want to admit it or not, it's true. McVay didn't have some elite IOL group and just let his best guard walk.

The run game, sets up the pay-action and allows him to run the personnel he wants. People wanting elite PP at the guard positions who require high end contracts and top 50 picks probably need to realize it's not happing.

Just looking at past teams and how they built this team, Kyle will take avg PP and top end run-blocking at the guard spot. Is what it is.

Well thank god we're not running the Bo Shembechler run offense.

Having said that, the *kind* of runs that Kyle likes to do is also important. And that is the outside ZBS, where speed and athleticism is a premium.

So Kyle and Benton have to look first to guys that can run fast, then their agility. I think most other non-outside ZBS teams are looking for the opposit.

I think that impacts a lot of fans perception as to what a good OLineman is for the team vs the coaching staff. I think fans are looking for that top of the line guy that can bench press Mount Everest and run like a gazelle. When it's the opposit that Kyle wants.

Originally posted by Phoenix49ers:

Originally posted by StubbornRussian:

The link you posted shows them ranked 10th. Regardless I think Richburg is they key. If you play at a high level at center and the tackles that will cover some flaws at the other two positions.

This. If Richburg is healthy and plays like he did previously in NY, the entire OL will look a whole lot better.

Could be a night and day difference.