49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by jonnydel:
My issue with MMartin is that: I'd be fine with him as a developmental pick, like a 5th or 6th rounder, who was going to be kept as a 7th lineman on our team. However, we're looking to him as a starter/primary backup interior lineman. To me, I don't like that at all. If we have any injury to our interior line, we're putting a guy in who's still a year or two away from being solid-good and we've used a 2nd round pick on him.

I believe Martin (70) was a high 3rd pick and Thomas (100) was a low 3rd. It really doesn't matter past the first round as OL always seems to be a crapshoot after that.

I'm not sure he can't play well this year but he needs to work with a set group for a few games to figure it out. There are times he looks around a bit lost as to his assignment, which may be due to the change in scheme/coaches. I'm hoping this is the case and that he will settle in at one of the guard spots. Right now he is competing with Looney and Farrell (and others) for a backup role. This is true if Thomas and Boone are the OGs and Kilgore the center.

Tomsula commented after the game that the OL would be shuffled and that we'd see different groups. I am delighted to hear this! It seemed we've had starters locked in over the past few years with limited competition.

Originally posted by jonnydel:
I'm really unsure if that's meant with sarcasm.... Tiller and Silberman were playing against guys that most likely won't make an NFL squad and did well, but didn't dominate. To unseat the guys we have, they'd have to dominate those 4th qtr D-lineman they're playing against.

Yes, definately sarcasm. Many look at PFF or other stats and fail to consider context. So the fact that these two guys were rated higher for the game than others would matter to some.

My line right now is Staley/Boone/Kilgore/Thomas/Pears until someone plays well enough to unseat someone. My preference would be for Boone to play RT and one of the many OGs to rise and take LG...but whatever...I was pretty happy with the line play for a first preseason game.

Originally posted by jonnydel:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by thl408:
Very encouraged by BThomas' performance. I'm just looking at the ratings. Not bad for first time action.
MMartin

Still believe Martin being three years younger than Thomas is significant and that he will grow into the job. But they still have four or five guys who can play center so he doesn't have to be rushed if he's not ready. Martin looks lighter this year and it may take him some adjustment to use quickness for lost tonnage.

Edit: thanks Disp...is there a way to show only OL? Other than take everything to excel and edit I couldn't find one.

My issue with MMartin is that: I'd be fine with him as a developmental pick, like a 5th or 6th rounder, who was going to be kept as a 7th lineman on our team. However, we're looking to him as a starter/primary backup interior lineman. To me, I don't like that at all. If we have any injury to our interior line, we're putting a guy in who's still a year or two away from being solid-good and we've used a 2nd round pick on him.

I was going purely off the PFF ratings and did not pay any attention to him during the game. I understand he's young so he has a lot of growth to achieve. Really rooting for him to take the RG spot so he can begin what should be a long career at one of the interior spots. My hope is that he earns the RG spot for this year and next, then eventually moves to C when he understands all the cerebral stuff that goes into being a C.

I don't know for sure, but it seems that when we take OL guys NOT in round 1, we have a deuce of a time getting a good starter out of it. It takes a first rounder (staley, Iupati, ADavis) to make a good solid OL. Just an observation, but we sure have burned up a bunch of later rd draft picks trying to get a good starter on OL. To get a good one, you really need to get them in round 1...and even then it is not a sure bet. But it is a lot surer than getting lesser goods in 3rd rd and up...those haven't tended to be good bets for us. Sure there are exceptions, but it is uncommon. I hate to hear, "Oh, we'll snag an OL in third round and coach him up." If only it worked that way.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
I don't know for sure, but it seems that when we take OL guys NOT in round 1, we have a deuce of a time getting a good starter out of it. It takes a first rounder (staley, Iupati, ADavis) to make a good solid OL. Just an observation, but we sure have burned up a bunch of later rd draft picks trying to get a good starter on OL. To get a good one, you really need to get them in round 1...and even then it is not a sure bet. But it is a lot surer than getting lesser goods in 3rd rd and up...those haven't tended to be good bets for us. Sure there are exceptions, but it is uncommon. I hate to hear, "Oh, we'll snag an OL in third round and coach him up." If only it worked that way.

Maybe Trent should target OL in the 1st round next year, since he's had success with it. We all know he doesn't have to the stuff to evaluate 1st round talent at the WR and CB positions, so that's out.

Originally posted by 21SandersMoss84:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
I don't know for sure, but it seems that when we take OL guys NOT in round 1, we have a deuce of a time getting a good starter out of it. It takes a first rounder (staley, Iupati, ADavis) to make a good solid OL. Just an observation, but we sure have burned up a bunch of later rd draft picks trying to get a good starter on OL. To get a good one, you really need to get them in round 1...and even then it is not a sure bet. But it is a lot surer than getting lesser goods in 3rd rd and up...those haven't tended to be good bets for us. Sure there are exceptions, but it is uncommon. I hate to hear, "Oh, we'll snag an OL in third round and coach him up." If only it worked that way.

Maybe Trent should target OL in the 1st round next year, since he's had success with it. We all know he doesn't have to the stuff to evaluate 1st round talent at the WR and CB positions, so that's out.

We might not need too. If AD comes back and we resign boone our oline could look like this

Staley - Boone - Kilgore - Thomas/Martin - Davis.

On paper thats pretty good line.

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

Originally posted by 21SandersMoss84:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
I don't know for sure, but it seems that when we take OL guys NOT in round 1, we have a deuce of a time getting a good starter out of it. It takes a first rounder (staley, Iupati, ADavis) to make a good solid OL. Just an observation, but we sure have burned up a bunch of later rd draft picks trying to get a good starter on OL. To get a good one, you really need to get them in round 1...and even then it is not a sure bet. But it is a lot surer than getting lesser goods in 3rd rd and up...those haven't tended to be good bets for us. Sure there are exceptions, but it is uncommon. I hate to hear, "Oh, we'll snag an OL in third round and coach him up." If only it worked that way.

Maybe Trent should target OL in the 1st round next year, since he's had success with it. We all know he doesn't have to the stuff to evaluate 1st round talent at the WR and CB positions, so that's out.

We might not need too. If AD comes back and we resign boone our oline could look like this

Staley - Boone - Kilgore - Thomas/Martin - Davis.

On paper thats pretty good line.

Davis should be erased from everyone's minds about the future of the OL

we will definetly go after more OL and DL next year

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

Originally posted by 21SandersMoss84:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
I don't know for sure, but it seems that when we take OL guys NOT in round 1, we have a deuce of a time getting a good starter out of it. It takes a first rounder (staley, Iupati, ADavis) to make a good solid OL. Just an observation, but we sure have burned up a bunch of later rd draft picks trying to get a good starter on OL. To get a good one, you really need to get them in round 1...and even then it is not a sure bet. But it is a lot surer than getting lesser goods in 3rd rd and up...those haven't tended to be good bets for us. Sure there are exceptions, but it is uncommon. I hate to hear, "Oh, we'll snag an OL in third round and coach him up." If only it worked that way.

Maybe Trent should target OL in the 1st round next year, since he's had success with it. We all know he doesn't have to the stuff to evaluate 1st round talent at the WR and CB positions, so that's out.

We might not need too. If AD comes back and we resign boone our oline could look like this

Staley - Boone - Kilgore - Thomas/Martin - Davis.

On paper thats pretty good line.

Davis should be erased from everyone's minds about the future of the OL

we will definetly go after more OL and DL next year

Why? Im not betting that he comes back ,but if he does it would be absolutely idiotic to not see what he can do.

OTOH, kap sure didn't seem like he was uncomfortable behind the OL. Based on the mass changes, I was afraid he might get killed out there...or injured. Turns out the ZBS worked pretty darn well...sure there were mistakes or misses, but overall, that was one helluva lot better than what I had expected. My impression going into game was the OL was a big, major league question. Even tho PS, post game, I felt a lot better about OL, after just a few weeks of practice. Not saying it was great, just saying way better than I had thot. As far as AD coming back, no. We are moving on.

The play of gabber, the Goal line stand, hayne, Purcell, the OL...we just looked a lot better than all the question marks everybody had. Yes, the DBs didn't look in sync, but jeez, it's early on, and lots to learn back there. That remains an unanswered question, but the other questions look like JT has them in hand. And we have 4 TEs...be hard to cut any of those guys. DBs are a work in progress. That was a fair showing overall for first PS game. No delay of game penalties, plays in on time...new regime is in and making its mark.

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

Originally posted by 21SandersMoss84:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
I don't know for sure, but it seems that when we take OL guys NOT in round 1, we have a deuce of a time getting a good starter out of it. It takes a first rounder (staley, Iupati, ADavis) to make a good solid OL. Just an observation, but we sure have burned up a bunch of later rd draft picks trying to get a good starter on OL. To get a good one, you really need to get them in round 1...and even then it is not a sure bet. But it is a lot surer than getting lesser goods in 3rd rd and up...those haven't tended to be good bets for us. Sure there are exceptions, but it is uncommon. I hate to hear, "Oh, we'll snag an OL in third round and coach him up." If only it worked that way.

Maybe Trent should target OL in the 1st round next year, since he's had success with it. We all know he doesn't have to the stuff to evaluate 1st round talent at the WR and CB positions, so that's out.

We might not need too. If AD comes back and we resign boone our oline could look like this

Staley - Boone - Kilgore - Thomas/Martin - Davis.

On paper thats pretty good line.

Davis should be erased from everyone's minds about the future of the OL

we will definetly go after more OL and DL next year

Why? Im not betting that he comes back ,but if he does it would be absolutely idiotic to not see what he can do.

You are already putting hope in your mind about him ,thats the part that should be erased.

To the team, he's nobody until he walks back into HQ

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

Originally posted by 21SandersMoss84:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
I don't know for sure, but it seems that when we take OL guys NOT in round 1, we have a deuce of a time getting a good starter out of it. It takes a first rounder (staley, Iupati, ADavis) to make a good solid OL. Just an observation, but we sure have burned up a bunch of later rd draft picks trying to get a good starter on OL. To get a good one, you really need to get them in round 1...and even then it is not a sure bet. But it is a lot surer than getting lesser goods in 3rd rd and up...those haven't tended to be good bets for us. Sure there are exceptions, but it is uncommon. I hate to hear, "Oh, we'll snag an OL in third round and coach him up." If only it worked that way.

Maybe Trent should target OL in the 1st round next year, since he's had success with it. We all know he doesn't have to the stuff to evaluate 1st round talent at the WR and CB positions, so that's out.

We might not need too. If AD comes back and we resign boone our oline could look like this

Staley - Boone - Kilgore - Thomas/Martin - Davis.

On paper thats pretty good line.

Davis should be erased from everyone's minds about the future of the OL

we will definetly go after more OL and DL next year

Why? Im not betting that he comes back ,but if he does it would be absolutely idiotic to not see what he can do.

You are already putting hope in your mind about him ,thats the part that should be erased.

To the team, he's nobody until he walks back into HQ

I see what you mean. Dont expect him to come back, if he does then see what he can do.

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by philosoraptor:

Originally posted by 21SandersMoss84:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
I don't know for sure, but it seems that when we take OL guys NOT in round 1, we have a deuce of a time getting a good starter out of it. It takes a first rounder (staley, Iupati, ADavis) to make a good solid OL. Just an observation, but we sure have burned up a bunch of later rd draft picks trying to get a good starter on OL. To get a good one, you really need to get them in round 1...and even then it is not a sure bet. But it is a lot surer than getting lesser goods in 3rd rd and up...those haven't tended to be good bets for us. Sure there are exceptions, but it is uncommon. I hate to hear, "Oh, we'll snag an OL in third round and coach him up." If only it worked that way.

Maybe Trent should target OL in the 1st round next year, since he's had success with it. We all know he doesn't have to the stuff to evaluate 1st round talent at the WR and CB positions, so that's out.

We might not need too. If AD comes back and we resign boone our oline could look like this

Staley - Boone - Kilgore - Thomas/Martin - Davis.

On paper thats pretty good line.

Davis should be erased from everyone's minds about the future of the OL

we will definetly go after more OL and DL next year

Why? Im not betting that he comes back ,but if he does it would be absolutely idiotic to not see what he can do.

You are already putting hope in your mind about him ,thats the part that should be erased.

To the team, he's nobody until he walks back into HQ

I see what you mean. Dont expect him to come back, if he does then see what he can do.

yeah cause dude say a lot of s**t..can't trust the mans word

but either way..i like this line so far..i hope they keep up the progress next game

Originally posted by thl408:
Very encouraged by BThomas' performance. I'm just looking at the ratings. Not bad for first time action.
MMartin

Bear in mind Satley graded poorly as well! Martin will take time to develop, at 21 years of age he's at a disadvantage for muscle mass as he won't have the years of training at a Pro level that other guys do and men tend to naturally add muscle as they age in their 20s and 30s.

I can see him as backup centre and guard while he grows and develops.

Staley, as I've said before, could be in a situation where he'll need to take a paycut next year..

Originally posted by Disp:
Here are the grades.

Thanks!!! Some solid grades on the defense, mostly in run defense, which I agree. A lot of guys made plays stopping the run.

I'm still trying to get a feel for their ratings system, especially the O-line. How did Staley grade so negatively on just 2 run blocking snaps? Hardly enough playing time to grade him out as one of the worst performers in the game, and I didn't see anything that egregious when watching.