49ers Offensive Line

With Garnett evolving into Sandy V we have to hope that Cooper steps up and takes the RG job, Person isn't the guy... I think Cooper will be fine once he works back into playing shape...

Originally posted by riverrunzthruit:

With Garnett evolving into Sandy V we have to hope that Cooper steps up and takes the RG job, Person isn't the guy... I think Cooper will be fine once he works back into playing shape...

We thought the same about Zuttah last year too. Hope this isn't the case and you're right!

Originally posted by Heroism:

I think the undervaluing of guards line of thought is a little antiquated. Football has changed. That approach may have sufficed thirty years ago when passing wasn't as prolific, teams ran true 3-4s with uncovered guards, or run-stuffing interior defensive linemen were prioritized, but contemporary football has changed. Teams run attacking schemes today on every down in which one or both B gap is attacked. Nobody runs a true 3-4 anymore, and 3techs are becoming more dynamic than they've ever been. I think we're seeing a player that will go down as the best 3tech ever in Aaron Donald.

The chess match between Kyle and Wade Phillips is going to be fascinating to watch. I'm expecting Phillips to use wide split(ie double 3tech) formations with Suh and Donald to isolate Laken Tomlinson and Mike Person/Erik Magnuson/Jonathan Cooper, and threaten double A-gap blitz from his LBs on every play to neutralize Weston Richburg. Of course, Kyle could always counter with his "base personnel" to force them to stay in theirs and help his guards. Again, this is going to be riveting football to watch.

Thank you for that post. I've been pounding the table for "G's are people too" for a long time. Kyle himself said his offense starts with the C-G exchange. And it's not like in Kyle's system, these G's are just standing there...they are pulling, leading screens, getting to the second level, pass protecting on stunts and like you said, straight up facing some of the best interior pass rushers in the game.

To me, a FO needs to focus on unit spend. With dumping Brown (no financial commitment) and going with a rookie RT, even after resigning Tomlinson and signing Richburg plus bringing in Cooper and Person, we are 29th in unit spend for the OL at only $23.9. The average is $33.1. To me, this is a pretty good indication of lack of focus on a critical unit to make Kyle's offense go esp. if you have a FQB.

Top G's and RT's over the past 5 years are mirroring LT pay these days...the game has changed.

And this FO's approach might just bite us in the ass this year.

Originally posted by NinerG94:

Great post!! I completely disagree. You don't have to look very far to see the next generation of elite pass rushers. This division is stacked with them and they're all inside guys that can line up anywhere on the defensive line. I've been saying the guard position is severely undervalued across the league for years now and yet I was scolded on this forum and assured that guards are easily found dead in mid rounds and a plug n play position. Some of those same dudes are complaining right now about how bad our guards blow at pass protection and most are first and second round picks.

Originally posted by mayo49:
I was hoping Garnett would nab that RG spot - looks like it's not going to happen. It's still early in camp - so there's still hope.

I was hoping for the same, but actually am excited for the other players to step up. I think Magnuson has good potential as a starting RG, and the rest of the undrafted O LInemen, I'm excited for them to have the opportunity to develop behind Magnuson and (possibly Pearson) if we can get younger and more talented at the Rg position, it's a good long term development.

Still hoping for Garnett, but from the news reports and tweets posted here, it looks like a career ender. Hoping I'm wrong.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Thank you for that post. I've been pounding the table for "G's are people too" for a long time. Kyle himself said his offense starts with the C-G exchange. And it's not like in Kyle's system, these G's are just standing there...they are pulling, leading screens, getting to the second level, pass protecting on stunts and like you said, straight up facing some of the best interior pass rushers in the game.

To me, a FO needs to focus on unit spend. With dumping Brown (no financial commitment) and going with a rookie RT, even after resigning Tomlinson and signing Richburg plus bringing in Cooper and Person, we are 29th in unit spend for the OL at only $23.9. The average is $33.1. To me, this is a pretty good indication of lack of focus on a critical unit to make Kyle's offense go esp. if you have a FQB.

Top G's and RT's over the past 5 years are mirroring LT pay these days...the game has changed.

And this FO's approach might just bite us in the ass this year.

this is borderline negative on lynch and kyle. its so easy for you to set in your easy chair and make these observations. you are invalid .. that being said. you said nothing wrong

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerG94:
Great post!! I completely disagree. You don't have to look very far to see the next generation of elite pass rushers. This division is stacked with them and they're all inside guys that can line up anywhere on the defensive line. I've been saying the guard position is severely undervalued across the league for years now and yet I was scolded on this forum and assured that guards are easily found dead in mid rounds and a plug n play position. Some of those same dudes are complaining right now about how bad our guards blow at pass protection and most are first and second round picks.

that is what i have tried to say. when you dare bring up the fact we needed better guards.,.,. well you can not have all pros at all spots. no. like as you said some third or fourth round guards could have helped and maybe there is still a guy out there who gets cut by another team who is respectable. i think it was foolish for so many people to assume just because we had three former first round guards we would be fine there. i know so many people have no respect for the rams or anyone else we play but in my opinion. i think defensive coordinators and defensive linemen are drooling at the prospects of abusing our guards.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Heroism:
I think the undervaluing of guards line of thought is a little antiquated. Football has changed. That approach may have sufficed thirty years ago when passing wasn't as prolific, teams ran true 3-4s with uncovered guards, or run-stuffing interior defensive linemen were prioritized, but contemporary football has changed. Teams run attacking schemes today on every down in which one or both B gap is attacked. Nobody runs a true 3-4 anymore, and 3techs are becoming more dynamic than they've ever been. I think we're seeing a player that will go down as the best 3tech ever in Aaron Donald.

The chess match between Kyle and Wade Phillips is going to be fascinating to watch. I'm expecting Phillips to use wide split(ie double 3tech) formations with Suh and Donald to isolate Laken Tomlinson and Mike Person/Erik Magnuson/Jonathan Cooper, and threaten double A-gap blitz from his LBs on every play to neutralize Weston Richburg. Of course, Kyle could always counter with his "base personnel" to force them to stay in theirs and help his guards. Again, this is going to be riveting football to watch.

Thank you for that post. I've been pounding the table for "G's are people too" for a long time. Kyle himself said his offense starts with the C-G exchange. And it's not like in Kyle's system, these G's are just standing there...they are pulling, leading screens, getting to the second level, pass protecting on stunts and like you said, straight up facing some of the best interior pass rushers in the game.

To me, a FO needs to focus on unit spend. With dumping Brown (no financial commitment) and going with a rookie RT, even after resigning Tomlinson and signing Richburg plus bringing in Cooper and Person, we are 29th in unit spend for the OL at only $23.9. The average is $33.1. To me, this is a pretty good indication of lack of focus on a critical unit to make Kyle's offense go esp. if you have a FQB.

Top G's and RT's over the past 5 years are mirroring LT pay these days...the game has changed.

And this FO's approach might just bite us in the ass this year.

I really don't think you need a Hall of Fame guard if you have a top flight center. In a 3-4 - if the center can go one on one with the NT and control him, that leaves the guards free to pick up blitzes and help the OT's. In a 4-3, as Hero said with the undershifted 3-techs, he has a good argument about the Guard needing to be athletic and top flite elite vs these 3-tech inside pressure guys, but here is the nub, a good center can double those 3-techs with the guard unless an defense has two great 3-techs. Not many teams have top flight interior guys at both DT spots. In most Seifert Carrol undershifteted 4-3 defenses the NT and the Big End are not quite the gap penetrators that the 3-tech DT is, they are more like read and react two-gappers and so - from that perspective a man blocker on the right guard side, playing next to McGlinchy, in my eyes is not that much of a disadvantage against the modern undershifted 4-3 defenses.

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by NinerG94:
Great post!! I completely disagree. You don't have to look very far to see the next generation of elite pass rushers. This division is stacked with them and they're all inside guys that can line up anywhere on the defensive line. I've been saying the guard position is severely undervalued across the league for years now and yet I was scolded on this forum and assured that guards are easily found dead in mid rounds and a plug n play position. Some of those same dudes are complaining right now about how bad our guards blow at pass protection and most are first and second round picks.

that is what i have tried to say. when you dare bring up the fact we needed better guards.,.,. well you can not have all pros at all spots. no. like as you said some third or fourth round guards could have helped and maybe there is still a guy out there who gets cut by another team who is respectable. i think it was foolish for so many people to assume just because we had three former first round guards we would be fine there. i know so many people have no respect for the rams or anyone else we play but in my opinion. i think defensive coordinators and defensive linemen are drooling at the prospects of abusing our guards.

other teams trash is not all ways a treasure. replacing trash with trash is still trash

you are trying to make a right out of two wrongs. how can you not see that ? and if we did that option, im sure you will be the first to bash KS/JL

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
other teams trash is not all ways a treasure. replacing trash with trash is still trash

you are trying to make a right out of two wrongs. how can you not see that ? and if we did that option, im sure you will be the first to bash KS/JL

and keeping injured underachieving trash and hoping they will be better is for losers and suckers. thank you for telling me how i think.it must be a gift

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
other teams trash is not all ways a treasure. replacing trash with trash is still trash

you are trying to make a right out of two wrongs. how can you not see that ? and if we did that option, im sure you will be the first to bash KS/JL

and keeping injured underachieving trash and hoping they will be better is for losers and suckers. thank you for telling me how i think.it must be a gift

just trying to help, since you don't have or can't explain a viable solution

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
just trying to help, since you don't have or can't explain a viable solution

keep the two draft choices in the 4th round cb and 7th round lineman. they have already done more than ward and aa. then maybe cut or do a injury settlement with garnett and maybe find a guy in a couple of weeks who got cut from another team who is at least average. i am sure this will not satisfy you. but you asked

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
just trying to help, since you don't have or can't explain a viable solution

keep the two draft choices in the 4th round cb and 7th round lineman. they have already done more than ward and aa. then maybe cut or do a injury settlement with garnett and maybe find a guy in a couple of weeks who got cut from another team who is at least average. i am sure this will not satisfy you. but you asked

In reality those guys haven't done more as they haven't played a reg season games. But, who said we aren't keeping them ? Looks like AA , JW and Josh will be put on IR and opening spots for our draft picks

until players start getting cut every week, maybe just chill for a sec?

Really wish that they would show OL/DL 1 on 1 which are more of a game simulation that the WR/DB 1 on 1s. So far, I'm just hearing that our DLine is getting a good rush in. That should be a given since Buck and Solo are better on paper than any of our guards.

Originally posted by Heroism:

The chess match between Kyle and Wade Phillips is going to be fascinating to watch. I'm expecting Phillips to use wide split(ie double 3tech) formations with Suh and Donald to isolate Laken Tomlinson and Mike Person/Erik Magnuson/Jonathan Cooper, and threaten double A-gap blitz from his LBs on every play to neutralize Weston Richburg. Of course, Kyle could always counter with his "base personnel" to force them to stay in theirs and help his guards. Again, this is going to be riveting football to watch.

I forgot to mention that the 49ers will face this style of attack in week 1 against Mike Zimmer's defense. He puts Barr and Kendricks over both A gaps on nearly ever passing down and forces the opposing OL to match up one-on-one with their purple people eater DL.


Yikes.