49ers Offensive Line

eOriginally posted by pasodoc9er:
Right about now OND, i am wishing we would have kept Trent Brown one more season, his last under contract, and moved him to RG which he has played before. I know water under the bridge, but i wish kyle hadn't been so anxious to unload him.That one move would have made me feel a whole lot better about the OL. OTOH, if this works out we will be further ahead in the long run once we get past first 4 games, soooooo.... maybe it was for best ...but I would have loved to have Trent their at RG just for this yr. Between cooper, Garnett, person, magnus....one would think ONE of them could get it done, and do well besides. But no question going into season against VIKES, Det, Chiefs and game 4, that OL is going to be under one massive assault every play. I just pray they can protect our FRANCHISE. And that is with the huge assumption that Laken is worth that extension. I sure hope so, anyway.

I have no issue with the team moving on from Brown. They seemed to know they weren't going to extend him so might as well give someone else the playing time. I think McGlinchey will be okay. He may have some growing pains in pass protection but should be an upgrade in the running game. Person seems like a back-up to me so I guess he will be competing with Magnuson for that swing G/C/T position. I think the battle for that right guard spot will be really interesting and feel pretty confident that they will get at least serviceable play from whoever ends up winning the job. I am rooting for Garnett to step up but really like Magnuson as a dark horse candidate, though he may have more value in that swing position rather than as a starter. Its nice going into the preseason with some real competition for some of these spots that have been headaches for the last few years like CB and the Offensive line. I think Lynch and his team have really done a could job of improving the talent level on the roster in just the short time they have been here and am looking forward to seeing some of these new guys out on the field. Go Niners!!

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

...and OL will be a big part of that.

"Could" be a big part of it. The reality is we'll have 4 new starters and the 5th is a year older. It certainly has more upside, potential and depth but it could also be our Achilles heel too. It will probably take a while to gel as a brand new unit.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

...and OL will be a big part of that.

"Could" be a big part of it. The reality is we'll have 4 new starters and the 5th is a year older. It certainly has more upside, potential and depth but it could also be our Achilles heel too. It will probably take a while to gel as a brand new unit.

True but the way i look at it, we stay same at LT. Joe didn't lose any last yr. At C we swap Kilgore for RIchburg. Impossible to state how much better he is but 3x to 5x would be my guess . Kilgore because of injury whatever, just couldn't block.

LG was a constant struggle last yr but with a zero C, it is hard to gauge how well Laken played. So unchanged to slightly better. RG was a mess last yr and i cringed every time the ball was snapped. We had non professional talent at RG. Cooper , Garnett, magnus, person can't be worse than that. At the least we are better at RG. That leaves RT and McG is a better run blocker on a team that runs ZBS. His pass blocking we don't know. But overall, with better ZBS blocking, we probably are better on run and not as good in pass pro.. Add it all up and we are better as a unit, and probably okay OT C OT. Question obviously is at OGs. One would have to believe Laken is better than last yr or he doesn't get the 3 yr extension. Look at it that way and we are better. Question is the Achilles heel. If we have one OG who lets guys in like the revolving door, yes, this will be one long season.

But the fact we took no OGs in draft almost has to mean kyle and JL expect something way better for RG this yr. Again, overall, the OL is set up from gitgo to be better talentwise than last yr. Is it good enough? We will see shortly.

So I still have questions.

Is Tomlinson locked in at LG?

Will RT MM be able to adjust quickly to the NFL or does he need some help from an experienced RG?

Will Cooper be fully recovered AND in shape for training camp? How long will it take for him to learn and adjust to shanny's offense?

Is Garnett going to be ready or would he benefit from playing next to an experienced tackle--like Staley?

Does it make sense to try to balance the strength of the o-line by moving some of the experience--at LG--to RG and moving some of the lesser experience--at RG--to LG? Would that make things easier for Richburg who's got his own inexperience in shanny's system to overcome?

Is it a waste of time even thinking about this stuff?

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

...and OL will be a big part of that.

"Could" be a big part of it. The reality is we'll have 4 new starters and the 5th is a year older. It certainly has more upside, potential and depth but it could also be our Achilles heel too. It will probably take a while to gel as a brand new unit.

True but the way i look at it, we stay same at LT. Joe didn't lose any last yr. At C we swap Kilgore for RIchburg. Impossible to state how much better he is but 3x to 5x would be my guess . Kilgore because of injury whatever, just couldn't block.

LG was a constant struggle last yr but with a zero C, it is hard to gauge how well Laken played. So unchanged to slightly better. RG was a mess last yr and i cringed every time the ball was snapped. We had non professional talent at RG. Cooper , Garnett, magnus, person can't be worse than that. At the least we are better at RG. That leaves RT and McG is a better run blocker on a team that runs ZBS. His pass blocking we don't know. But overall, with better ZBS blocking, we probably are better on run and not as good in pass pro.. Add it all up and we are better as a unit, and probably okay OT C OT. Question obviously is at OGs. One would have to believe Laken is better than last yr or he doesn't get the 3 yr extension. Look at it that way and we are better. Question is the Achilles heel. If we have one OG who lets guys in like the revolving door, yes, this will be one long season.

But the fact we took no OGs in draft almost has to mean kyle and JL expect something way better for RG this yr. Again, overall, the OL is set up from gitgo to be better talentwise than last yr. Is it good enough? We will see shortly.

Yeah, on paper, it certainly looks way better than what we ended the year with. It could certainly turn out just fine. Then again, as others have pointed out, no time to gel...they'll be tested right out of the gate for 6-7 straight weeks.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

So I still have questions.

Is Tomlinson locked in at LG?

Will RT MM be able to adjust quickly to the NFL or does he need some help from an experienced RG?

Will Cooper be fully recovered AND in shape for training camp? How long will it take for him to learn and adjust to shanny's offense?

Is Garnett going to be ready or would he benefit from playing next to an experienced tackle--like Staley?

Does it make sense to try to balance the strength of the o-line by moving some of the experience--at LG--to RG and moving some of the lesser experience--at RG--to LG? Would that make things easier for Richburg who's got his own inexperience in shanny's system to overcome?

Is it a waste of time even thinking about this stuff?

Haha...always worth discussing!

Yes, Tomlinson seems like an absolute lock at LG.

I really like MM's overall upside but it wouldn't be fair to expect a rookie to PP like Brown...yet.

I hear your point about balance. And I think the dark horse here might be the veteran Person for RG. He already knows the system and it's going to take Cooper time to get back in football shape (more upside). Garnett is just one huge question mark. He's in for a battle royale.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Haha...always worth discussing!

Yes, Tomlinson seems like an absolute lock at LG.

I really like MM's overall upside but it wouldn't be fair to expect a rookie to PP like Brown...yet.

I hear your point about balance. And I think the dark horse here might be the veteran Person for RG. He already knows the system and it's going to take Cooper time to get back in football shape (more upside). Garnett is just one huge question mark. He's in for a battle royale.

I just wonder--if I were coaching the o-line I'd want MM bracketed between TE Celek and my most experienced Guard (Tomlinson) on the right side and Cooper or Garnett between Staley and Richburg on the left. I know its a little "outside the box" thinking--but isn't that what we expect from professiona coaches?

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

I just wonder--if I were coaching the o-line I'd want MM bracketed between TE Celek and my most experienced Guard (Tomlinson) on the right side and Cooper or Garnett between Staley and Richburg on the left. I know its a little "outside the box" thinking--but isn't that what we expect from professiona coaches?

I don't think it's outside the box at all. It's a sound argument. In the end, I do suspect a veteran to win the RG spot, in part, because he'd be in position to help out the rookie way out at RT.

Originally posted by NCommand:
I don't think it's outside the box at all. It's a sound argument. In the end, I do suspect a veteran to win the RG spot, in part, because he'd be in position to help out the rookie way out at RT.

When we get past the "but that's the way we've always done it" limits there are some other facts to consider:

Cooper played LG at Dallas last year and that may be his natural position. Garnett played LG at Stanford and won the Outland trophy--so LG might be his best position. They both would likely benefit from playing next to an experienced tackle while they gain reps and experience in shanny's system. Just like MM would bemefit from playing next to a more experienced RG. Why not kill 2 birds with on stone?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

I just wonder--if I were coaching the o-line I'd want MM bracketed between TE Celek and my most experienced Guard (Tomlinson) on the right side and Cooper or Garnett between Staley and Richburg on the left. I know its a little "outside the box" thinking--but isn't that what we expect from professiona coaches?

I don't think it's outside the box at all. It's a sound argument. In the end, I do suspect a veteran to win the RG spot, in part, because he'd be in position to help out the rookie way out at RT.

I don't thiink that is out of the box at all OND, and is a very good idea. I would be surprised if kyle hasn't been thinking about this also..For starters both yours and NC's idea sound like good ones. Ultimately and down the road , we go with whoever dances best with who. I bet your thinking is what JL and Kyle are currently discussing but will be so much easier to decide upon, once they get the different combos working together, and we go from there...ie TC.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

...and OL will be a big part of that.

"Could" be a big part of it. The reality is we'll have 4 new starters and the 5th is a year older. It certainly has more upside, potential and depth but it could also be our Achilles heel too. It will probably take a while to gel as a brand new unit.

True but the way i look at it, we stay same at LT. Joe didn't lose any last yr. At C we swap Kilgore for RIchburg. Impossible to state how much better he is but 3x to 5x would be my guess . Kilgore because of injury whatever, just couldn't block.

LG was a constant struggle last yr but with a zero C, it is hard to gauge how well Laken played. So unchanged to slightly better. RG was a mess last yr and i cringed every time the ball was snapped. We had non professional talent at RG. Cooper , Garnett, magnus, person can't be worse than that. At the least we are better at RG. That leaves RT and McG is a better run blocker on a team that runs ZBS. His pass blocking we don't know. But overall, with better ZBS blocking, we probably are better on run and not as good in pass pro.. Add it all up and we are better as a unit, and probably okay OT C OT. Question obviously is at OGs. One would have to believe Laken is better than last yr or he doesn't get the 3 yr extension. Look at it that way and we are better. Question is the Achilles heel. If we have one OG who lets guys in like the revolving door, yes, this will be one long season.

But the fact we took no OGs in draft almost has to mean kyle and JL expect something way better for RG this yr. Again, overall, the OL is set up from gitgo to be better talentwise than last yr. Is it good enough? We will see shortly.

Yeah, on paper, it certainly looks way better than what we ended the year with. It could certainly turn out just fine. Then again, as others have pointed out, no time to gel...they'll be tested right out of the gate for 6-7 straight weeks.

Yeah, on PAPER. I remember so many of my great ideas on paper the last 20 yrs. Looked terrific to me until they were tried and we ended up with blippo. Only way this gets figured out is en vivo...ie TC. Then we know...or maybe not.

Center was such a big part of the success of this offense I could not stress more how much I thought bringing back Kilgore would be a huge mistake. Now with McGlinchey I think we should be able to run a lot more outside zone and sweep plays that should keep the opposing defensive lines tired and primed for play action.

Originally posted by Waterbear:

Center was such a big part of the success of this offense I could not stress more how much I thought bringing back Kilgore would be a huge mistake. Now with McGlinchey I think we should be able to run a lot more outside zone and sweep plays that should keep the opposing defensive lines tired and primed for play action.

Yep. Add screens... Play action should boom... Oowwweeeeee.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

...and OL will be a big part of that.

"Could" be a big part of it. The reality is we'll have 4 new starters and the 5th is a year older. It certainly has more upside, potential and depth but it could also be our Achilles heel too. It will probably take a while to gel as a brand new unit.

And they better gel quickly, because Minnesota has a formidable pass rush. LA is locked and loaded.

Laken, Magnus, Garnett, Cooper, Person...here we are talking basically about hoping 2 of these guys (of the first 4 anyway) will come around and give us not just decent, or acceptable... but truly good starting Guard play. But what if we end with 3 of these guys being starters? One at LG is what i hope for plus a somewhat decent RG. Two would be a dream come true. But what if we hit on 3 of them? If that were to happen, i swear i would put money down on us winning it all.

Laken didn't get that extension as a charity case , so kyle sees him as a starter. Has to be. Magnus showed some good signs last yr and with cooper all we know is he played in Dallas but a guess would be he is a ???. GArnett is the guy i would hope gets it right, and he was one heckuva player in college. None excelled, but Laken sure got lots of time at LG and he did get better as season went along. Magnus ...is he more of a OG/C/OT...ie jack of all trades, and master of none...or when he gets the chance, is he our answer at RG? Person...is he here just as camp meat, or does he have a real shot at starting?

Right now, not having seen any of these guys in action this yr, nobody but Kyle and JL know what we have. But if we happen to have 2 legit starters and a 3rd guy who can /could start, I would be willing to make this my last season, and never watch another 9er game. Unhhh....nah. Couldn't do that. but i would do pennance or something, say the beads, whatever. 2 starting guards would just about make this season for me. Sure we have no ER but our best and deepest unit is DL and we may very well have all the passrush we need from them on the inside, right up the gut. Key is two, or more likely one OG to be a true legit starter, but two...or three? What would this team be like if that were the case? Schid hot, nothing less.