49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by cciowa:

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

It's about the system and fit, these guys fit the system. If you don't understand that yet, you'll have to wait and see.

I tell you what, if this line isn't playing well by mid season, and we aren't winning games, you cook the crow, and I'll eat it

i will not do that. i have to eat enough crow here david boston marlon moore jon baldwin.not signing jimmy long term. thinking jt would be a good teacher etc.. i do not have time to prepare it for others. i just expect them to step up and admit they were wrong like i do and then we just move on. you are a good poster and you will feel bad enough as it is if this thing goes south without people on your ass reminding you about something you said three months prior

Fair enough! If this line sucks, I'll prepare my own damned crow!

Originally posted by TheXFactor:

Originally posted by thl408:
I'm cautiously optimistic about the new group. Losing weight doesn't suddenly make someone a better player. No guarantees that a rookie hits the ground running. If Cooper plays average, it will be an improvement. There will be a minimum of 3 new starters on the OL. If it takes chemistry and cohesion to function as a good group of five, then it will take some time to get them playing well together provided they are competent as individuals (Garnett, Cooper, McG).

I'm more worried about the pass rush than the O-Line at this point.

Both are justifiable concerns.

against the Rams - the Oline is my main concern.

we'll need a much better pass rush against Vikings. If Cousins has all day to throw - we'll be in for a very long day.

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Both are justifiable concerns.

against the Rams - the Oline is my main concern.

we'll need a much better pass rush against Vikings. If Cousins has all day to throw - we'll be in for a very long day.

talk about bad OLs

Originally posted by WINiner:
I keep seeing "MM is a massive upgrade to Beadles". How is this possibly known? Yes Beadles played poorly but he's been in the NFL for several years including playing for a SB team in Denver if memory serves. I personally don't assume some rookie is going to come in and solidify that position. He's going to take a while, and Gspot is going to be the one feeling those growing pains.

Look I know about the additions and the subtractions. IMO Ritchburg over Kilgore is huge, but it's going to take him a while. MM over Beadles is potentially huge, but again it's going to take a while. I have 0 faith in any of our G's. Yes I understand you don't need HoF talent at every position (One of my most hated, redundant, and worthless inclusions in any reply as in my opinion it is an assumption that the person being replied to is a moron and disrespectful as all get out on a football forum). You do however need serviceable linemen and we do not have the G's to be serviceable imo. Add in the fact that we face a team with the best DT duo in football twice this next year and you can color me concerned. The G's and ER on this team are going to be an obvious weakness this year imo.

We don't know if MM is an upgrade over Beadles and certainly we don't know if he's an upgrade over Brown. Just like we don't know if Richburg is an upgrade over Kilgore...etc

These guys whether rookies or free agents weren't on the roster last year and didn't play in this 49ers scheme and offense/defense but you have to assume guys were brought in for a reason. Yes they still have to prove themselves and no draft pick is ever a sure thing(we've seen way too many sure things crash and burn) but in some cases the bar is set pretty low.

With McGlinchey we know at least one other team was targeting him in the top 10 with another offensive minded HC. That tells me between Kyle and Jon Gruden they saw a kid who had some good qualities. The fact that Joe loves him already tells me he's not someone who will come in and half ass things. He has the skills and the maturity. Whether he puts it together on the field remains to be seen but on paper he should be an improvement.

Ditto with the other guys we added.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by WINiner:
I keep seeing "MM is a massive upgrade to Beadles". How is this possibly known? Yes Beadles played poorly but he's been in the NFL for several years including playing for a SB team in Denver if memory serves. I personally don't assume some rookie is going to come in and solidify that position. He's going to take a while, and Gspot is going to be the one feeling those growing pains.

Look I know about the additions and the subtractions. IMO Ritchburg over Kilgore is huge, but it's going to take him a while. MM over Beadles is potentially huge, but again it's going to take a while. I have 0 faith in any of our G's. Yes I understand you don't need HoF talent at every position (One of my most hated, redundant, and worthless inclusions in any reply as in my opinion it is an assumption that the person being replied to is a moron and disrespectful as all get out on a football forum). You do however need serviceable linemen and we do not have the G's to be serviceable imo. Add in the fact that we face a team with the best DT duo in football twice this next year and you can color me concerned. The G's and ER on this team are going to be an obvious weakness this year imo.

We don't know if MM is an upgrade over Beadles and certainly we don't know if he's an upgrade over Brown. Just like we don't know if Richburg is an upgrade over Kilgore...etc

These guys whether rookies or free agents weren't on the roster last year and didn't play in this 49ers scheme and offense/defense but you have to assume guys were brought in for a reason. Yes they still have to prove themselves and no draft pick is ever a sure thing(we've seen way too many sure things crash and burn) but in some cases the bar is set pretty low.

With McGlinchey we know at least one other team was targeting him in the top 10 with another offensive minded HC. That tells me between Kyle and Jon Gruden they saw a kid who had some good qualities. The fact that Joe loves him already tells me he's not someone who will come in and half ass things. He has the skills and the maturity. Whether he puts it together on the field remains to be seen but on paper he should be an improvement.

Ditto with the other guys we added.

I hear yah. Perspective and all that. Gotta remember I am a guy that was in favor of stashing Gspot until this season and wow did that turn out to be the opposite of what would have been best, in hindsight. I just believe and want Gspot to be "The Man" and that franchise QB we have searched for since Young. When I fell in love with the 49ers, dominant QB play was synonymous with 49ers. I want that feeling of knowing your QB is likely to play very well in all games. Protecting G-spot, assuming he is The Man, is my #1 worry and not something the team pursued heavily enough in the offseason IMO, despite the Westburg and McGlinchey additions.

It's all about the G-spot in the end though. You could call me enamored at this point.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by TheXFactor:

Originally posted by thl408:

I'm cautiously optimistic about the new group. Losing weight doesn't suddenly make someone a better player. No guarantees that a rookie hits the ground running. If Cooper plays average, it will be an improvement. There will be a minimum of 3 new starters on the OL. If it takes chemistry and cohesion to function as a good group of five, then it will take some time to get them playing well together provided they are competent as individuals (Garnett, Cooper, McG).

I'm more worried about the pass rush than the O-Line at this point.

same here

Oh yeah...ER and OL are really my only concerns next to injuries.

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by TheXFactor:

Originally posted by thl408:

I'm cautiously optimistic about the new group. Losing weight doesn't suddenly make someone a better player. No guarantees that a rookie hits the ground running. If Cooper plays average, it will be an improvement. There will be a minimum of 3 new starters on the OL. If it takes chemistry and cohesion to function as a good group of five, then it will take some time to get them playing well together provided they are competent as individuals (Garnett, Cooper, McG).

I'm more worried about the pass rush than the O-Line at this point.

same here

Bad pass rush means the defense can't get off the field. Bad OL means Jimmy gets smacked around. Which is worse?

An alternatitve would be to keep the ball 38+. Mins/game. Don't let their O on the field. That would mean our D played 10 mins each half. ...or thereabouts if we were able to play keep away and come away with a score besides. Right now i have no idea what is being planned Long term, but if playing keep away is part of the game plan, then i think we succeed. Jimmy is aa good a QB as any to be able to do that. We keep the opponents O on the bench for 38 mins/game, and i could see us winning it all. Easier said than done, however.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by TheXFactor:

Originally posted by thl408:

I'm cautiously optimistic about the new group. Losing weight doesn't suddenly make someone a better player. No guarantees that a rookie hits the ground running. If Cooper plays average, it will be an improvement. There will be a minimum of 3 new starters on the OL. If it takes chemistry and cohesion to function as a good group of five, then it will take some time to get them playing well together provided they are competent as individuals (Garnett, Cooper, McG).

I'm more worried about the pass rush than the O-Line at this point.

same here

Bad pass rush means the defense can't get off the field. Bad OL means Jimmy gets smacked around. Which is worse?

An alternatitve would be to keep the ball 38+. Mins/game. Don't let their O on the field. That would mean our D played 10 mins each half. ...or thereabouts if we were able to play keep away and come away with a score besides. Right now i have no idea what is being planned Long term, but if playing keep away is part of the game plan, then i think we succeed. Jimmy is aa good a QB as any to be able to do that. We keep the opponents O on the bench for 38 mins/game, and i could see us winning it all. Easier said than done, however.

Ask the Titans and jaguars what we did with a depleted team with less talent... Don't worry, I'll wait.

My feeling about the current state of the OL is this...Lynch, Shanahan, and the other front office talent evaluators, through their actions (or inaction) during the draft, demonstrated that they felt that the OGs they had (with the addition of Cooper) were better than any of the young OGs they could have drafted. It seems they also felt that Kilgore was not only a liability at C but that his shortcomings in pass protection also affected the guards, who probably felt they had to cover for him at times. With the addition of Richburg, they probably felt like they also made the OG positions stronger too. Of course, that remains to be seen but if one has confidence in the front office and coaching staff, then we should probably feel OK about what they have right now.

The same goes for the pass rush. The team clearly thought that the pass rush and overall defense would be better served through needed upgrades and depth in the secondary, more than drafting an edge rusher that they had questions about. I distinctly remember someone (Lynch perhaps or Saleh) stating that the Niners were "close" to a lot more sacks last year and if the secondary could have covered guys for a second or two longer, the pass rush would have looked a lot better.

Now, the team did address both the OL (3 new starters possibly) and the pass rush (through the additions of several draft choices and FAs in the secondary). We'll see if they are correct but they seem to be confident in their decisions. BTW, these are the same guys that found George Kittle, Trent Taylor, and Adrian Colbert (3 starters) late in the draft last year so they appear to be good at eyeing talent. Maybe we should keep the faith until it isn't warranted.

Cheers!

Originally posted by SmokeCrabtrees:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:

Originally posted by thl408:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by TheXFactor:

Originally posted by thl408:
I'm cautiously optimistic about the new group. Losing weight doesn't suddenly make someone a better player. No guarantees that a rookie hits the ground running. If Cooper plays average, it will be an improvement. There will be a minimum of 3 new starters on the OL. If it takes chemistry and cohesion to function as a good group of five, then it will take some time to get them playing well together provided they are competent as individuals (Garnett, Cooper, McG).

I'm more worried about the pass rush than the O-Line at this point.

same here

Bad pass rush means the defense can't get off the field. Bad OL means Jimmy gets smacked around. Which is worse?

An alternatitve would be to keep the ball 38+. Mins/game. Don't let their O on the field. That would mean our D played 10 mins each half. ...or thereabouts if we were able to play keep away and come away with a score besides. Right now i have no idea what is being planned Long term, but if playing keep away is part of the game plan, then i think we succeed. Jimmy is aa good a QB as any to be able to do that. We keep the opponents O on the bench for 38 mins/game, and i could see us winning it all. Easier said than done, however.

Ask the Titans and jaguars what we did with a depleted team with less talent... Don't worry, I'll wait.

All we did was rip threw 5 teams and were dying for the season not to end.

Originally posted by mayo49:
All we did was rip threw 5 teams and were dying for the season not to end.

Throw in 5 games where they lost by 3 or fewer pts I could have easily seen an extra 3 wins out of those games with better QB play (and getting the team to mesh together).

IMO I think SF is a 9 win team this yr possibly more if the young guns step up like they should be

To think this offensive line is not improved is to say you know more about talent, and specifically the kind of talent Kyle Shannahan needs to tune his offense, then Kyle Shannahan, and Jon Lynch know about talent.

13 players from the pre Lynch Niners remaining the roster as camp approaches

The turnover has resulted in better play and better players all over the field.

To say this online isn't improved is to say, that dispute Kyle and Jon improving every other squad on the roster, this is their one failure.

I'm trusting they know more about football, and the kind of football they want to play than you or I do.

To me this line is so vastly different then even last years line, and seemingly with a purpose, it has to be better suited to the scheme, and therefore will be better.

Originally posted by longterm9erfan:

My feeling about the current state of the OL is this...Lynch, Shanahan, and the other front office talent evaluators, through their actions (or inaction) during the draft, demonstrated that they felt that the OGs they had (with the addition of Cooper) were better than any of the young OGs they could have drafted. It seems they also felt that Kilgore was not only a liability at C but that his shortcomings in pass protection also affected the guards, who probably felt they had to cover for him at times. With the addition of Richburg, they probably felt like they also made the OG positions stronger too. Of course, that remains to be seen but if one has confidence in the front office and coaching staff, then we should probably feel OK about what they have right now.

The same goes for the pass rush. The team clearly thought that the pass rush and overall defense would be better served through needed upgrades and depth in the secondary, more than drafting an edge rusher that they had questions about. I distinctly remember someone (Lynch perhaps or Saleh) stating that the Niners were "close" to a lot more sacks last year and if the secondary could have covered guys for a second or two longer, the pass rush would have looked a lot better.

Now, the team did address both the OL (3 new starters possibly) and the pass rush (through the additions of several draft choices and FAs in the secondary). We'll see if they are correct but they seem to be confident in their decisions. BTW, these are the same guys that found George Kittle, Trent Taylor, and Adrian Colbert (3 starters) late in the draft last year so they appear to be good at eyeing talent. Maybe we should keep the faith until it isn't warranted.

Cheers!

Great post

I think adding Weston Richburg is almost like adding (upgrading) at two spots. He is obviously a big upgrade over Kilgore and I think he also makes our guards better.

I also feel like Laken Tomlinson will be a solid starting LG for us. The last 4-5 games he was real solid and I think a full off-season with the team and in the scheme, he will only continue to get better...

Mayock breaking down Tomlinson