49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

Lots of folks around here advocating we take a guard in the first round. With so many first round busts at guard on the roster....I think we should avoid taking a first round guard.

We should be bringing every second and third tier FA gaurd in before the draft.

I'm hoping Garnett's hype is real, and we don't need to burn a gig pick on a gaurd.

I'd like to see 5-6 rounder go gaurd, tackle to keep building a stable of back ups, and provide completion.

I'm in a pretty good place as far as what we have signed, and how we plan to use them.

Lastly having backs that excell in broken field running and QB with a wicked fast release will make the line look better

Good post. Yeah, we literally have three former first round G's competing for 2 spots. However, the thing to remember here is, scheme. 2 of those G's were picked for power schemes. 1 for zone (our newest member). Vastly different skills sets. Losing weight doesn't mean you'll suddenly have the skill set to master zone.

An example is Trenton Brown. No matter how much weight he loses, he's never going to be an explosive laterally-quick T where we'll be able to run countless runs off his right end. Inside? No problem.

This draft does seem to be deep in interior zone OL so don't be surprised if we draft a C/G to add to that pool of competition. Don't be surprised if we draft a 6'7" T who is 300 pounds and athletic and who'll develop for a year.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Good post. Yeah, we literally have three former first round G's competing for 2 spots. However, the thing to remember here is, scheme. 2 of those G's were picked for power schemes. 1 for zone (our newest member). Vastly different skills sets. Losing weight doesn't mean you'll suddenly have the skill set to master zone.

An example is Trenton Brown. No matter how much weight he loses, he's never going to be an explosive laterally-quick T where we'll be able to run countless runs off his right end. Inside? No problem.

This draft does seem to be deep in interior zone OL so don't be surprised if we draft a C/G to add to that pool of competition. Don't be surprised if we draft a 6'7" T who is 300 pounds and athletic and who'll develop for a year.

Agree! Looking over the draft prospects I still do not see many OGs who fit the niners scheme. The three first round OGs on the roster are all equal to or the same as the best of the prospects...with the possible exception of Nelson.

That said, I believe they could drop back and get Wynn toward the end of the first round. His profile extols his mobility and athleticism-needed in Shanahan's system--which isn't true of any of the top OGs in the draft. Even Nelson has negatives that surprised me (bad--if true). Maddog has Wynn listed as an OG I believe, as most other profiles say he is more likely to play inside due to size--6'3" 313. He played both inside and out at Georgia so...

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Good post. Yeah, we literally have three former first round G's competing for 2 spots. However, the thing to remember here is, scheme. 2 of those G's were picked for power schemes. 1 for zone (our newest member). Vastly different skills sets. Losing weight doesn't mean you'll suddenly have the skill set to master zone.

An example is Trenton Brown. No matter how much weight he loses, he's never going to be an explosive laterally-quick T where we'll be able to run countless runs off his right end. Inside? No problem.

This draft does seem to be deep in interior zone OL so don't be surprised if we draft a C/G to add to that pool of competition. Don't be surprised if we draft a 6'7" T who is 300 pounds and athletic and who'll develop for a year.

Agree! Looking over the draft prospects I still do not see many OGs who fit the niners scheme. The three first round OGs on the roster are all equal to or the same as the best of the prospects...with the possible exception of Nelson.

That said, I believe they could drop back and get Wynn toward the end of the first round. His profile extols his mobility and athleticism-needed in Shanahan's system--which isn't true of any of the OGs in the draft. Even Nelson has negatives that surprised me (bad--if true). Maddog has Wynn listed as an OT I believe, but most other profiles say he is more likely to play inside due to size--6'3" 313. He played both inside and out at Georgia so...

Heh, personally, the way Kyle likes so much speed and agility at the OLine position - I'd look at some strong tight ends that have the mobility I want. Faster and more agile, the better, and turn them into guards. or maybe some big basketball type guys that also played football. (just kidding)

Originally posted by Giedi:
Heh, personally, the way Kyle likes so much speed and agility at the OLine position - I'd look at some strong tight ends that have the mobility I want. Faster and more agile, the better, and turn them into guards. or maybe some big basketball type guys that also played football. (just kidding)

Not sold on having both Cooper and Garnett starting

In my mock, I traded back up and selected Hernandez at 36.

Staley, Hernandez, Richburg, Cooper/Garnett, Brown

Originally posted by 49erInTheMidwest:
Not sold on having both Cooper and Garnett starting

In my mock, I traded back up and selected Hernandez at 36.

Staley, Hernandez, Richburg, Cooper/Garnett, Brown

I'm with you, I'm not sold on either Garnett or Cooper starting. From a durability standpoint and also play. Cooper did look pretty good last year starting 13 games for Dallas but before that was considered a bust. The little Garnett has played, he hasn't exactly set the world on fire. I think Tomlinson will start at one guard spot and Cooper at the other but hopefully we have a rookie pushing those guys and ready to start in 2019.

I love Isiah Wynn and I like Will Hernandez a lot as well. No way could we get Hernandez at 36. He will be a first round pick and I have seen him go as high as top 16.

Originally posted by StubbyNBY:

I'm with you, I'm not sold on either Garnett or Cooper starting. From a durability standpoint and also play. Cooper did look pretty good last year starting 13 games for Dallas but before that was considered a bust. The little Garnett has played, he hasn't exactly set the world on fire. I think Tomlinson will start at one guard spot and Cooper at the other but hopefully we have a rookie pushing those guys and ready to start in 2019.

I love Isiah Wynn and I like Will Hernandez a lot as well. No way could we get Hernandez at 36. He will be a first round pick and I have seen him go as high as top 16.

I agree Hernandez and Wynn should be, but I've seen quite a few mocks where at least one of them falls to the 2nd. Wishful thinking

Originally posted by NCommand:

An example is Trenton Brown. No matter how much weight he loses, he's never going to be an explosive laterally-quick T where we'll be able to run countless runs off his right end. Inside? No problem.

While I agree with this, I think with T Brown, the positives (great pass protection) outweigh the negatives (lateral mobility). On every team, there are players that don't necessarily fit the scheme exactly but have skill sets that help the team win. In other words, no team is perfect. Needless to say, it will be very interesting to see what the Niners do with Brown long term. When you have a T that can pass protect like he can, that is a valuable asset.

Cheers!

Originally posted by 49erInTheMidwest:

Originally posted by StubbyNBY:
I'm with you, I'm not sold on either Garnett or Cooper starting. From a durability standpoint and also play. Cooper did look pretty good last year starting 13 games for Dallas but before that was considered a bust. The little Garnett has played, he hasn't exactly set the world on fire. I think Tomlinson will start at one guard spot and Cooper at the other but hopefully we have a rookie pushing those guys and ready to start in 2019.

I love Isiah Wynn and I like Will Hernandez a lot as well. No way could we get Hernandez at 36. He will be a first round pick and I have seen him go as high as top 16.

I agree Hernandez and Wynn should be, but I've seen quite a few mocks where at least one of them falls to the 2nd. Wishful thinking

Both of them will be off the board when our pick is up in the 2nd.

Originally posted by SteveYoung:
All Saleh has preached is getting off the field on 3rd downs. We have the D to stop the run it seems but we lack a pressure 3rd down set that can get the ball back to our offense.

I think our line is set personally and I don't see any rookies that will unseat any of the guys we have.

LT- Staley
LG- Cooper / Beadles
C- Richburg / Magnunsen
RG- Tomlinson / Garnett
RT- Brown?? / Gilliam

I've said it a thousand times but I don't think we will look to upgrade our guards. There is one prospect who would be ideal and that is Wynn but I just cannot see Lynch taking a guard in round.

Instead I really believe we will look to add a tackle to push or at the very least replace Brown. I'm very high on Kolton Miller. Shanahan values Tackles and centers in this scheme paired with athletic, mobile guards.

We also need a CB but in this scheme guys who are big and physical but don't necessarily test seem to fall.

Isaiah Oliver - Colorado Round 2
Carlton Davis - Auburn, Round 2
Quenton Meeks - Stanford, Round 3
Isaac Yiadom - Boston College Round 3
Kameron Kelly - SD State Round 3

All are ideal fits.

In a perfect world we add a OT, LB, DE and CB on rounds 1-3. Trade down to the middle 1st adding a 2nd.

1a- Kolton Miller, OT, UCLA
2a- Ogbonnia Okoronkwo, LEO, Oklahoma
2b- Uchenna Nwosu, SAM, USC
3a- Josey Jewell, MLB, Iowa
3b- Isaac Yiadom, CB, Boston College
4- Durham Smythe TE, Notre Dame
5- Sam Jones, OG, Arizona St.

In this scenerio we add an ideal who tested off the charts. A LEO in the Cliff Avril mode. A SAM in the Bruce Irvin mold. An old school two down thumping MLB, A tall physical CB, the best blocking TE in the draft and a smart, athletic OG for depth.

I have seen this post a number of times before, but FTR, will post my thots once again in opposition to JL/KS not taking OGs in the first 2-3 rds of draft. I believe they will, and we take Nelson if he is around at #9 which I don't believe will happen. In that very unlikely scenario, I see KS taking another starting OG around #70 to #74 or so.
No point in disputing your feelings, nor mine. We just disagree. We will know what the result was in less than a month now, so after that, there will be no disagreement. Both posters have posted why their way is what each thinks will happen. From here on in, we let kyle and john tell us what exactly they are going to do re: OG protection for JimmyG. Nobody knows at this point except KS/JL what exactly we have in Cooper, Magnus, Garnett, but I do know what we have in beadles and that isn't adequate. It is possible that both GM and HC KNOW we have our FRQB protected which would make you right. If not, then I will be. FRankly I hope cooper is the nuts. But based on used parts on OL last yr, I would say both HC and GM whiffed on OL. Beadles, Laken, weren't the answer and the rest are gone, thankfully. So April 21st and this gets decided. (or the 26th?)

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by 49erInTheMidwest:

Originally posted by StubbyNBY:

I'm with you, I'm not sold on either Garnett or Cooper starting. From a durability standpoint and also play. Cooper did look pretty good last year starting 13 games for Dallas but before that was considered a bust. The little Garnett has played, he hasn't exactly set the world on fire. I think Tomlinson will start at one guard spot and Cooper at the other but hopefully we have a rookie pushing those guys and ready to start in 2019.

I love Isiah Wynn and I like Will Hernandez a lot as well. No way could we get Hernandez at 36. He will be a first round pick and I have seen him go as high as top 16.

I agree Hernandez and Wynn should be, but I've seen quite a few mocks where at least one of them falls to the 2nd. Wishful thinking

Both of them will be off the board when are pick is up in the 2nd.

But in my draft scenario it's possible one of them could fall to 36. We traded back to the packers pick at 14, got Landry. Then traded back up to 36 and landed Hernandez. It's not super likely, but definitely possible

Originally posted by mayo49:

Originally posted by 49erInTheMidwest:

Originally posted by StubbyNBY:
I'm with you, I'm not sold on either Garnett or Cooper starting. From a durability standpoint and also play. Cooper did look pretty good last year starting 13 games for Dallas but before that was considered a bust. The little Garnett has played, he hasn't exactly set the world on fire. I think Tomlinson will start at one guard spot and Cooper at the other but hopefully we have a rookie pushing those guys and ready to start in 2019.

I love Isiah Wynn and I like Will Hernandez a lot as well. No way could we get Hernandez at 36. He will be a first round pick and I have seen him go as high as top 16.

I agree Hernandez and Wynn should be, but I've seen quite a few mocks where at least one of them falls to the 2nd. Wishful thinking

Both of them will be off the board when our pick is up in the 2nd.

This

One thing for sure

If Rams get Suh our guards will have to be much better than last year.

The interior rush from Donald & Sue will be super intense.

we really will need to insure quality depth as well.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Heh, personally, the way Kyle likes so much speed and agility at the OLine position - I'd look at some strong tight ends that have the mobility I want. Faster and more agile, the better, and turn them into guards. or maybe some big basketball type guys that also played football. (just kidding)

Some one posted the 94 playoff game vs the Giants, watch how those 265 pound linemen pulled, amazing! You'll never see anything like it again.

When faced with big defensive linemen, smaller offensive linemen used to cut, or chop, now one of those blocks is banned, and the other is considered dirty.

I would like to see a line composed of athletic 285 pounders, and lots of pulling on running plays, and lots of boot action on passing, like in the old days. Wear them fatties out with three quarters of chasing left and right, then cram it down their fat winded throats in the fourth!

I've been binge watching old games from the glory days!

Originally posted by GolittaCamper:

Some one posted the 94 playoff game vs the Giants, watch how those 265 pound linemen pulled, amazing! You'll never see anything like it again.

When faced with big defensive linemen, smaller offensive linemen used to cut, or chop, now one of those blocks is banned, and the other is considered dirty.

I would like to see a line composed of athletic 285 pounders, and lots of pulling on running plays, and lots of boot action on passing, like in the old days. Wear them fatties out with three quarters of chasing left and right, then cram it down their fat winded throats in the fourth!

I've been binge watching old games from the glory days!

That is essentially Shanahan's scheme in a nutshell.

And further explains why guards like Nelson and Hernandez aren't fits. 330 pound Nelson and 350 pound Hernandez would themselves tire out from the constant movement that Shanahan stresses from his linemen. The same can be said for Trent Brown and how he isn't a fit.