49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Originally posted by NCommand:

If you're cool with an interior that gave up the 4th most QB hits (116) almost exclusively right up the gut, mediocre is what you got. No doubt Richburg has a chance to help that a ton mentally and physically though. But interior G pass protection is critical especially in our division.

The good news is there might be quite a few scheme fit interior OL in play for us in a deep and talented class.

As of now, one injury, and we're hurting and right back to the same OL play we've seen in years past. A FQB can mask a lot but eventually, 16 games of hits will catch up to you.

Do you have a stat saying how many of those hits were the fault of Hoyer and Beathard not getting rid of the ball?

I guarantee you one thing is that we weren't 4th in the league in QB hits when Garrapolo was starting.

It doesn't matter. QB hits are the same whether you end up on your back or not; whether you completed a pass or not.

It's like a goalie in soccer. It's never his fault. Had the other 10 done their job, the ball never gets near the goalie forcing him to make a play.

Brady/Foles in the Superbowl is what you want...QB sitting back there all day as needed.

Right now, we have 3 very poor pass protectors at G with Garnett, Tomlinson and Cooper. I doubt that magically changes. Mediocre.

PS: If you guarantee that, can you provide the game-by-game QB hits and pressures for all 16 games? I agree that sacks certainly went down.

Originally posted by SteveYoung:

Originally posted by cciowa:
i do not know much about scheme . i look for guys who can block and do the basics for the run game and pass game. you can not tell me there are not two guys in the draft,. on day two or day three that will provide a infusion of youth and talent into the o line. i get you think we will not draft a guard on day one.i respect that and given our massive hole for a pass rusher and maybe inside linebacker. i tend to agree.. i would not rule out the team tweaking the line with another vet after june first

CB is also a huge need as well

agree. that is why i wish john would trade down to get us a couple of extra picks to fill those holes. i used to be a fan of jackson from iowa as a cb but they say he had a awful combine and i would rather see us get a pass rusher with pick one than a cb. foster really messed things up for us so a case can be made for a inside linebacker with pick one . but back to topic. i hope through whatever means. we can add two more guards .some say we need to find another tackle but i wonder if we can kick that one down the road another year

i really appreciate conversing and debating with steve young. he sticks by his convictions and he always gives me something new to think about without being abrasive

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

The OL is the toughest area to master in the WCO. Guys need to be quick, intelligent and tenacious. I believe Shanahan already knows what these guys can be and will either sell the farm to improve during the draft or through trades if he isn't happy with the current players. The second year in the WCO should show a significant improvement. Not saying he'll win a SB his third year...but on the other hand...

No doubt. Fans shouldn't undervalue G's especially in Kyle's system. Rome wasn't built in a day so even after this draft, we'll still have work to do. If Richburg, Brown and Staley are all back to form, that will go a long ways in helping both G positions in PP.

It's possible that 1 and maybe 2 starters along the O-line are not currently on the team.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:
The OL is the toughest area to master in the WCO. Guys need to be quick, intelligent and tenacious. I believe Shanahan already knows what these guys can be and will either sell the farm to improve during the draft or through trades if he isn't happy with the current players. The second year in the WCO should show a significant improvement. Not saying he'll win a SB his third year...but on the other hand...

No doubt. Fans shouldn't undervalue G's especially in Kyle's system. Rome wasn't built in a day so even after this draft, we'll still have work to do. If Richburg, Brown and Staley are all back to form, that will go a long ways in helping both G positions in PP.

One thing I don't expect to see is LG looking right as the LT turns left to catch a speed rusher. That has happened so much in the past and the OGs were just lost. Then they brought in guys like Beadles, who knew what to look for but couldn't do it at an acceptable level. Now we will have to see if Cooper, Garnett and Tomlinson are a step up or just a side step.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

The OL is the toughest area to master in the WCO. Guys need to be quick, intelligent and tenacious. I believe Shanahan already knows what these guys can be and will either sell the farm to improve during the draft or through trades if he isn't happy with the current players. The second year in the WCO should show a significant improvement. Not saying he'll win a SB his third year...but on the other hand...

No doubt. Fans shouldn't undervalue G's especially in Kyle's system. Rome wasn't built in a day so even after this draft, we'll still have work to do. If Richburg, Brown and Staley are all back to form, that will go a long ways in helping both G positions in PP.

One thing I don't expect to see is LG looking right as the LT turns left to catch a speed rusher. That has happened so much in the past and the OGs were just lost. Then they brought in guys like Beadles, who knew what to look for but couldn't do it at an acceptable level. Now we will have to see if Cooper, Garnett and Tomlinson are a step up or just a side step.

Exactly!!

Still concerned about about this. Jimmy does a great job elevating the O-line but right now we have an upgraded Center and good tackles but..... it looks like we have a boatload of depth guys at the guard positions with zero players of starting caliber talent. We are currently crossing our fingers hoping that one of these guys rises to the challenge to be a quality starter rather than acquiring an Offensive guard (or two) with actual starting NFL talent in this system. While our QB does a great job getting the ball out fast the poor O-line play really showed up whenever we tried to run the ball, essentially making us one dimensional late in the season. Against the tough defenses we will face next year we can't let defenses force us into this.

Originally posted by NCommand:
It doesn't matter. QB hits are the same whether you end up on your back or not; whether you completed a pass or not.

It's like a goalie in soccer. It's never his fault. Had the other 10 done their job, the ball never gets near the goalie forcing him to make a play.

Brady/Foles in the Superbowl is what you want...QB sitting back there all day as needed.

Right now, we have 3 very poor pass protectors at G with Garnett, Tomlinson and Cooper. I doubt that magically changes. Mediocre.

PS: If you guarantee that, can you provide the game-by-game QB hits and pressures for all 16 games? I agree that sacks certainly went down.

I do not understand your frequently repeated dislike of Tomlinson. My first impression of him was the first Rams game last season when he seemed to stonewall Aaron Donald--so well that, at the end of the game, with the game on the line, Donald moved over to the right side of the o-line and promptly beat Fusco for a sack that essentially ended the game.

Nor do I completely follow your doubts of the possibility that Garnett may have improved his ability to pass block along with his physique, agility, and flexibility. I know he has yet to prove anything at the NFL level with his present physical condition--but the same must be said of Nelson, Wynn, or any other potential draftee.

As for Cooper, I don't know that much about him--except that he seems to be a "scheme fit" who's here on a one year deal--a try-out basis, worth the risk.

Finally I have to say that I do believe that KS is working some magic with these guys--and the rest of the offense--rebuilding not just the personnel along the o-line, but improving their pass and run blocking by finding a QB w/ a quick release and excellent pocket presence, and now adding a RB with much greater speed and explosive cutting ability--who should make the oline's run blocking improve as much as JG improved their pass pro. imho.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by NCommand:

It doesn't matter. QB hits are the same whether you end up on your back or not; whether you completed a pass or not.

It's like a goalie in soccer. It's never his fault. Had the other 10 done their job, the ball never gets near the goalie forcing him to make a play.

Brady/Foles in the Superbowl is what you want...QB sitting back there all day as needed.

Right now, we have 3 very poor pass protectors at G with Garnett, Tomlinson and Cooper. I doubt that magically changes. Mediocre.

PS: If you guarantee that, can you provide the game-by-game QB hits and pressures for all 16 games? I agree that sacks certainly went down.

I do not understand your frequently repeated dislike of Tomlinson. My first impression of him was the first Rams game last season when he seemed to stonewall Aaron Donald--so well that, at the end of the game, with the game on the line, Donald moved over to the right side of the o-line and promptly beat Fusco for a sack that essentially ended the game.

Nor do I completely follow your doubts of the possibility that Garnett may have improved his ability to pass block along with his physique, agility, and flexibility. I know he has yet to prove anything at the NFL level with his present physical condition--but the same must be said of Nelson, Wynn, or any other potential draftee.

As for Cooper, I don't know that much about him--except that he seems to be a "scheme fit" who's here on a one year deal--a try-out basis, worth the risk.

Finally I have to say that I do believe that KS is working some magic with these guys--and the rest of the offense--rebuilding not just the personnel along the o-line, but improving their pass and run blocking by finding a QB w/ a quick release and excellent pocket presence, and now adding a RB with much greater speed and explosive cutting ability--who should make the oline's run blocking improve as much as JG improved their pass pro. imho.

Yeah, I don't have anything personal against all three. I'm just saying as of today, this might be as good as it gets. I agree Tomlinson had his best year last year, Cooper probably too and Garnett seems to be putting in the work. Cooper is probably the best fit for zone. But at this stage, they are all average at best. Do they have the potential to do more? Yes...all former first round talents.

I'm at the stage with a FQB and year 2 of this WCO, I want that playbook wide open and game plans not altered because we have 116 QB hits coming right up the gut. I want Jimmy Franchise protected and clean.

If you pay attention to draft visits, we're looking hard at T's and interior OL...and for good reason.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yeah, I don't have anything personal against all three. I'm just saying as of today, this might be as good as it gets. I agree Tomlinson had his best year last year, Cooper probably too and Garnett seems to be putting in the work. Cooper is probably the best fit for zone. But at this stage, they are all average at best. Do they have the potential to do more? Yes...all former first round talents.

I'm at the stage with a FQB and year 2 of this WCO, I want that playbook wide open and game plans not altered because we have 116 QB hits coming right up the gut. I want Jimmy Franchise protected and clean.

If you pay attention to draft visits, we're looking hard at T's and interior OL...and for good reason.

lynch himself said we aka jimmy. got beat up in the interior of the line. the new center is a huge plus but we are far from done in that arena in my opinion

Originally posted by NCommand:
Yeah, I don't have anything personal against all three. I'm just saying as of today, this might be as good as it gets. I agree Tomlinson had his best year last year, Cooper probably too and Garnett seems to be putting in the work. Cooper is probably the best fit for zone. But at this stage, they are all average at best. Do they have the potential to do more? Yes...all former first round talents.

I'm at the stage with a FQB and year 2 of this WCO, I want that playbook wide open and game plans not altered because we have 116 QB hits coming right up the gut. I want Jimmy Franchise protected and clean.

If you pay attention to draft visits, we're looking hard at T's and interior OL...and for good reason.

I have to think that with Richburg taking over for Kilgore, a lot of that "up the gut" pressure will be allieviated somewhat. You agree that Richburg is better than "average"?

Still lots to do, but its pretty amazing--to me--what KS has done just with the o-line so far in reshaping it to fit his system. And the way he's reshaped the entire offense--QB, RB, and o-line--to work together is pretty impressive, imho. He's got a plan he's working towards, and we haven't seen that kind of vision since Bill Walsh.

Originally posted by oldninerdude:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Yeah, I don't have anything personal against all three. I'm just saying as of today, this might be as good as it gets. I agree Tomlinson had his best year last year, Cooper probably too and Garnett seems to be putting in the work. Cooper is probably the best fit for zone. But at this stage, they are all average at best. Do they have the potential to do more? Yes...all former first round talents.

I'm at the stage with a FQB and year 2 of this WCO, I want that playbook wide open and game plans not altered because we have 116 QB hits coming right up the gut. I want Jimmy Franchise protected and clean.

If you pay attention to draft visits, we're looking hard at T's and interior OL...and for good reason.

I have to think that with Richburg taking over for Kilgore, a lot of that "up the gut" pressure will be allieviated somewhat. You agree that Richburg is better than "average"?

Still lots to do, but its pretty amazing--to me--what KS has done just with the o-line so far in reshaping it to fit his system. And the way he's reshaped the entire offense--QB, RB, and o-line--to work together is pretty impressive, imho. He's got a plan he's working towards, and we haven't seen that kind of vision since Bill Walsh.

Oh yes! Richburg is a stud and will be x10 better than Kilgore in PP. I loved that signing. He will help the G's a lot.

To John's own comments, I'm glad they recognized an obvious issue.

"That's one thing, when you look at us, we closed fast (5-0) and all that. You got to own your division if you want to get to the playoffs, if you want to win championships," Lynch said on ESPN radio this week. "We weren't very good in our division, and when you look at our division, there's guys like Aaron Donald come to mind. We got beat up in the interior at times last year and so we had to fortify that."

"We really felt like (Cooper) kind of settled down last year in Dallas and really played some good football," Lynch said. "We think he's a really good fit. But, in our division, we'll see what happens. … But you better be good in the interior and we feel like we have strength in the position there."

I wouldn't say it's fortified yet but Richburg and more competition helps plus we still have the draft!

Cooper (the way he performed with Dallas Cowchics) is a big improvement to any guard play we had last season. We need one more starting guard...we have enough depth.

Richburg is a trillion times better than Kilgore. Nuff Said!

We're definitely (I hope) drafting tackle no later than 3rd round.

I took a look at some of the OLinemen that ShanaLynch is looking at. The following names are from the draft visit thread in the webzone draft boards.

OL
Mark Korte, C, Alberta (EW)
Jamar McGloster, OT, Syracuse (EW)
Zachary Crabtree, OT, Oklahoma State (EW)
Skyler Phillips, G, Idaho State (SR)
Bradley Bozeman, C, Alabama (SR)
Will Hernandez, G, UTEP (SR/COM)
James Daniels, C, Iowa (COM)
Tyrell Crosby, OT, Oregon (COM)
Kolton Miller, OT, UCLA (COM/Workout)
Scott Quessenberry, C, UCLA(Workout)

I took a Look at the scouting reports for Korte, Phillips, and Hernandez and they all had athletic and quick feet and hands and can move. It's clear that ShanaLynch are looking for quick fast O LInemen that can anchor and run block. If anything, I like the fact that Kyle is looking to upgrade the quickness and speed at the guard position. A lot of Kyle's schemes are misdirection and play fakes, and the faster your OLinemen are, the better those fakes and misdirection plays will work.