49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by genus49:
But I'm curious why Maiocco is pushing no early OL stuff

His argument is based on analysis of what teams have historically done, which is basically draft a first round OT only when they need that OT to start Day One. 49ers are (probably) not in that position since they will come to an agreement with Trent.

Not taking care of the Oline will be our demise.

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Not taking care of the Oline will be our demise.

Quite honestly, I think if Robert Jones can return to 2024 form, the 49ers might be in good shape at LG. He played really well next to Terron Armstead, now he'll be next to Trent Williams. Lynch and Shanahan say it will be open competition at LG, but I think it will be Robert Jones's job to lose in the end.

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Not taking care of the Oline will be our demise.

Saying that Kyle has ignored the O line just isn't true. I went back and looked at the Walsh drafts and compared them to Kyles. They were nearly identical. Each drafted one O linemen in the 1st, une in the 2nd, one in the 3rd and none in the 4th rounds over a 7-8 year period. The guys Walsh drafted were genrally more successful but some of that was because of Bobb McKitrick. Unfortunately the guys Kyle drafted weren't as successful. McGlinchey was a starter and Puni looks to be solid. Burford and Banks were average at best.

The point is this constant mantra that Kyle ignores the line is BS. He drafted the same number of O linemen as Walsh but the players just weren't as good.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Not taking care of the Oline will be our demise.

Saying that Kyle has ignored the O line just isn't true. I went back and looked at the Walsh drafts and compared them to Kyles. They were nearly identical. Each drafted one O linemen in the 1st, une in the 2nd, one in the 3rd and none in the 4th rounds over a 7-8 year period. The guys Walsh drafted were genrally more successful but some of that was because of Bobb McKitrick. Unfortunately the guys Kyle drafted weren't as successful. McGlinchey was a starter and Puni looks to be solid. Burford and Banks were average at best.

The point is this constant mantra that Kyle ignores the line is BS. He drafted the same number of O linemen as Walsh but the players just weren't as good.

If looking at number of draft picks only, maybe you're right. But you said it yourself that the results have been weaker under this regime. In light of that, I would expect them to spend more picks on OL to improve the group. I think looking only at the number of draft picks spent on OL is a bit of selective storytelling.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Not taking care of the Oline will be our demise.

Saying that Kyle has ignored the O line just isn't true. I went back and looked at the Walsh drafts and compared them to Kyles. They were nearly identical. Each drafted one O linemen in the 1st, une in the 2nd, one in the 3rd and none in the 4th rounds over a 7-8 year period. The guys Walsh drafted were genrally more successful but some of that was because of Bobb McKitrick. Unfortunately the guys Kyle drafted weren't as successful. McGlinchey was a starter and Puni looks to be solid. Burford and Banks were average at best.

The point is this constant mantra that Kyle ignores the line is BS. He drafted the same number of O linemen as Walsh but the players just weren't as good.

the fact that players weren't as good is kinda the issue,do you think Walsh would've stood pat if the guys he drafted had been mediocre at best?

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Not taking care of the Oline will be our demise.

Saying that Kyle has ignored the O line just isn't true. I went back and looked at the Walsh drafts and compared them to Kyles. They were nearly identical. Each drafted one O linemen in the 1st, une in the 2nd, one in the 3rd and none in the 4th rounds over a 7-8 year period. The guys Walsh drafted were genrally more successful but some of that was because of Bobb McKitrick. Unfortunately the guys Kyle drafted weren't as successful. McGlinchey was a starter and Puni looks to be solid. Burford and Banks were average at best.

The point is this constant mantra that Kyle ignores the line is BS. He drafted the same number of O linemen as Walsh but the players just weren't as good.

Yeah, I agree. There are multiple ways to build out a team - draft picks, FA/UDFA signings, and trades. And they used a combo to field a decent OL

Trent - acquired by trade
Brendel - FA signing. His predecessors were also FA additions - Richburg and Mack.
Puni - draft pick (3rd round). His predecessors were Brunskill (FA) and Burford (4th round pick).
McKivitz - draft pick (5th round). His predecessor was McGlinchey, who was a top 10 pick.

For LG, they tend to play a bit of moneyball at the position. Laken Tomlinson was acquired via a 5th round pick and served as our starter for 4 years (same as a rookie deal in duration). Banks was a 2nd round pick - decent, but not special.

When you have multi-year starters entrenched in their roles, it reduces the need to invest in similar positions at the expense of other needs / investment considerations.

Originally posted by DaleGribble:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Not taking care of the Oline will be our demise.

Saying that Kyle has ignored the O line just isn't true. I went back and looked at the Walsh drafts and compared them to Kyles. They were nearly identical. Each drafted one O linemen in the 1st, une in the 2nd, one in the 3rd and none in the 4th rounds over a 7-8 year period. The guys Walsh drafted were genrally more successful but some of that was because of Bobb McKitrick. Unfortunately the guys Kyle drafted weren't as successful. McGlinchey was a starter and Puni looks to be solid. Burford and Banks were average at best.

The point is this constant mantra that Kyle ignores the line is BS. He drafted the same number of O linemen as Walsh but the players just weren't as good.

the fact that players weren't as good is kinda the issue,do you think Walsh would've stood pat if the guys he drafted had been mediocre at best?

A factor worth considering is that the college game back in Walsh's time was more like the pro game than it is now. Hence, though the round selection may have been the same, the quality level was better when they arrived in the pros.

Of course, the other factor, and it was huge, was Bobb McKittrick. He was HOF worthy and he created a blocking style that allowed lesser players to control better players. IOW, he was ahead of the game in that regard. That style is now illegal so the raw talent level is more important.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by DaleGribble:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Not taking care of the Oline will be our demise.

Saying that Kyle has ignored the O line just isn't true. I went back and looked at the Walsh drafts and compared them to Kyles. They were nearly identical. Each drafted one O linemen in the 1st, une in the 2nd, one in the 3rd and none in the 4th rounds over a 7-8 year period. The guys Walsh drafted were genrally more successful but some of that was because of Bobb McKitrick. Unfortunately the guys Kyle drafted weren't as successful. McGlinchey was a starter and Puni looks to be solid. Burford and Banks were average at best.

The point is this constant mantra that Kyle ignores the line is BS. He drafted the same number of O linemen as Walsh but the players just weren't as good.

the fact that players weren't as good is kinda the issue,do you think Walsh would've stood pat if the guys he drafted had been mediocre at best?

A factor worth considering is that the college game back in Walsh's time was more like the pro game than it is now. Hence, though the round selection may have been the same, the quality level was better when they arrived in the pros.

Of course, the other factor, and it was huge, was Bobb McKittrick. He was HOF worthy and he created a blocking style that allowed lesser players to control better players. IOW, he was ahead of the game in that regard. That style is now illegal so the raw talent level is more important.

Both good points. The fact that Walsh had more success doesn't change the bogus narrative that Kyle ignores the O line. You need a couple years to evaluate the O line picks since the pro game is a lot different than the college game. Some guys learn quickly and others never do.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by DaleGribble:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Not taking care of the Oline will be our demise.

Saying that Kyle has ignored the O line just isn't true. I went back and looked at the Walsh drafts and compared them to Kyles. They were nearly identical. Each drafted one O linemen in the 1st, une in the 2nd, one in the 3rd and none in the 4th rounds over a 7-8 year period. The guys Walsh drafted were genrally more successful but some of that was because of Bobb McKitrick. Unfortunately the guys Kyle drafted weren't as successful. McGlinchey was a starter and Puni looks to be solid. Burford and Banks were average at best.

The point is this constant mantra that Kyle ignores the line is BS. He drafted the same number of O linemen as Walsh but the players just weren't as good.

the fact that players weren't as good is kinda the issue,do you think Walsh would've stood pat if the guys he drafted had been mediocre at best?

A factor worth considering is that the college game back in Walsh's time was more like the pro game than it is now. Hence, though the round selection may have been the same, the quality level was better when they arrived in the pros.

Of course, the other factor, and it was huge, was Bobb McKittrick. He was HOF worthy and he created a blocking style that allowed lesser players to control better players. IOW, he was ahead of the game in that regard. That style is now illegal so the raw talent level is more important.

Both good points. The fact that Walsh had more success doesn't change the bogus narrative that Kyle ignores the O line. You need a couple years to evaluate the O line picks since the pro game is a lot different than the college game. Some guys learn quickly and others never do.

The salary cap has had an impact as well. In Walsh's day, he could have kept Aaron Banks, a good, not great OG, rather than give him up because another team was able to pay him more. When Banks was fully healthy, he was decent. Mike McGlinchey is another example. His career in Denver is roughly the same as it was here but we had to let him go for cap reasons.

Of course, one has to play the hand they are dealt. In this case, KS has brought in players he thought would work in his scheme, like Richburg and Mack, but time and injuries ruined that. We were told the targeted a couple of OTs that went just before they had the pick, so they went with better value players rather than need.

Drafting is not rocket science. It is an art but sometimes the paint gets messy.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by DaleGribble:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Not taking care of the Oline will be our demise.

Saying that Kyle has ignored the O line just isn't true. I went back and looked at the Walsh drafts and compared them to Kyles. They were nearly identical. Each drafted one O linemen in the 1st, une in the 2nd, one in the 3rd and none in the 4th rounds over a 7-8 year period. The guys Walsh drafted were genrally more successful but some of that was because of Bobb McKitrick. Unfortunately the guys Kyle drafted weren't as successful. McGlinchey was a starter and Puni looks to be solid. Burford and Banks were average at best.

The point is this constant mantra that Kyle ignores the line is BS. He drafted the same number of O linemen as Walsh but the players just weren't as good.

the fact that players weren't as good is kinda the issue,do you think Walsh would've stood pat if the guys he drafted had been mediocre at best?

A factor worth considering is that the college game back in Walsh's time was more like the pro game than it is now. Hence, though the round selection may have been the same, the quality level was better when they arrived in the pros.

Of course, the other factor, and it was huge, was Bobb McKittrick. He was HOF worthy and he created a blocking style that allowed lesser players to control better players. IOW, he was ahead of the game in that regard. That style is now illegal so the raw talent level is more important.

Both good points. The fact that Walsh had more success doesn't change the bogus narrative that Kyle ignores the O line. You need a couple years to evaluate the O line picks since the pro game is a lot different than the college game. Some guys learn quickly and others never do.

The salary cap has had an impact as well. In Walsh's day, he could have kept Aaron Banks, a good, not great OG, rather than give him up because another team was able to pay him more. When Banks was fully healthy, he was decent. Mike McGlinchey is another example. His career in Denver is roughly the same as it was here but we had to let him go for cap reasons.

Of course, one has to play the hand they are dealt. In this case, KS has brought in players he thought would work in his scheme, like Richburg and Mack, but time and injuries ruined that. We were told the targeted a couple of OTs that went just before they had the pick, so they went with better value players rather than need.

Drafting is not rocket science. It is an art but sometimes the paint gets messy.

Completely different eras and McKittirck was an all time great so I don't think it is fair to compare. But the point was made if you aren't hitting on the few o linemen you do draft then you need to look at your coaching and draft more/better regardless

Sure you can argue they are getting insane production and value out of journeymen, but come playoff time that comes back to bite them every year as these guys mostly cannot handle championship caliber defenses.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by DaleGribble:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Not taking care of the Oline will be our demise.

Saying that Kyle has ignored the O line just isn't true. I went back and looked at the Walsh drafts and compared them to Kyles. They were nearly identical. Each drafted one O linemen in the 1st, une in the 2nd, one in the 3rd and none in the 4th rounds over a 7-8 year period. The guys Walsh drafted were genrally more successful but some of that was because of Bobb McKitrick. Unfortunately the guys Kyle drafted weren't as successful. McGlinchey was a starter and Puni looks to be solid. Burford and Banks were average at best.

The point is this constant mantra that Kyle ignores the line is BS. He drafted the same number of O linemen as Walsh but the players just weren't as good.

the fact that players weren't as good is kinda the issue,do you think Walsh would've stood pat if the guys he drafted had been mediocre at best?

A factor worth considering is that the college game back in Walsh's time was more like the pro game than it is now. Hence, though the round selection may have been the same, the quality level was better when they arrived in the pros.

Of course, the other factor, and it was huge, was Bobb McKittrick. He was HOF worthy and he created a blocking style that allowed lesser players to control better players. IOW, he was ahead of the game in that regard. That style is now illegal so the raw talent level is more important.

Both good points. The fact that Walsh had more success doesn't change the bogus narrative that Kyle ignores the O line. You need a couple years to evaluate the O line picks since the pro game is a lot different than the college game. Some guys learn quickly and others never do.

The salary cap has had an impact as well. In Walsh's day, he could have kept Aaron Banks, a good, not great OG, rather than give him up because another team was able to pay him more. When Banks was fully healthy, he was decent. Mike McGlinchey is another example. His career in Denver is roughly the same as it was here but we had to let him go for cap reasons.

Of course, one has to play the hand they are dealt. In this case, KS has brought in players he thought would work in his scheme, like Richburg and Mack, but time and injuries ruined that. We were told the targeted a couple of OTs that went just before they had the pick, so they went with better value players rather than need.

Drafting is not rocket science. It is an art but sometimes the paint gets messy.

Completely different eras and McKittirck was an all time great so I don't think it is fair to compare. But the point was made if you aren't hitting on the few o linemen you do draft then you need to look at your coaching and draft more/better regardless

Sure you can argue they are getting insane production and value out of journeymen, but come playoff time that comes back to bite them every year as these guys mostly cannot handle championship caliber defenses.

Clearly you don't win Super Bowls with a pack of journeymen OL. We need to get better. That begins with drafting players that develop into at least "above average" players. It also includes taking a hard look at how those players are being coached. I'm never on the practice field so I have no valid evaluation on the quality of the coaches. I only know we need to be stronger up the middle if we are to compete for our division.

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by DaleGribble:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Not taking care of the Oline will be our demise.

Saying that Kyle has ignored the O line just isn't true. I went back and looked at the Walsh drafts and compared them to Kyles. They were nearly identical. Each drafted one O linemen in the 1st, une in the 2nd, one in the 3rd and none in the 4th rounds over a 7-8 year period. The guys Walsh drafted were genrally more successful but some of that was because of Bobb McKitrick. Unfortunately the guys Kyle drafted weren't as successful. McGlinchey was a starter and Puni looks to be solid. Burford and Banks were average at best.

The point is this constant mantra that Kyle ignores the line is BS. He drafted the same number of O linemen as Walsh but the players just weren't as good.

the fact that players weren't as good is kinda the issue,do you think Walsh would've stood pat if the guys he drafted had been mediocre at best?

A factor worth considering is that the college game back in Walsh's time was more like the pro game than it is now. Hence, though the round selection may have been the same, the quality level was better when they arrived in the pros.

Of course, the other factor, and it was huge, was Bobb McKittrick. He was HOF worthy and he created a blocking style that allowed lesser players to control better players. IOW, he was ahead of the game in that regard. That style is now illegal so the raw talent level is more important.

Both good points. The fact that Walsh had more success doesn't change the bogus narrative that Kyle ignores the O line. You need a couple years to evaluate the O line picks since the pro game is a lot different than the college game. Some guys learn quickly and others never do.

The salary cap has had an impact as well. In Walsh's day, he could have kept Aaron Banks, a good, not great OG, rather than give him up because another team was able to pay him more. When Banks was fully healthy, he was decent. Mike McGlinchey is another example. His career in Denver is roughly the same as it was here but we had to let him go for cap reasons.

Of course, one has to play the hand they are dealt. In this case, KS has brought in players he thought would work in his scheme, like Richburg and Mack, but time and injuries ruined that. We were told the targeted a couple of OTs that went just before they had the pick, so they went with better value players rather than need.

Drafting is not rocket science. It is an art but sometimes the paint gets messy.

Completely different eras and McKittirck was an all time great so I don't think it is fair to compare. But the point was made if you aren't hitting on the few o linemen you do draft then you need to look at your coaching and draft more/better regardless

Sure you can argue they are getting insane production and value out of journeymen, but come playoff time that comes back to bite them every year as these guys mostly cannot handle championship caliber defenses.

Clearly you don't win Super Bowls with a pack of journeymen OL. We need to get better. That begins with drafting players that develop into at least "above average" players. It also includes taking a hard look at how those players are being coached. I'm never on the practice field so I have no valid evaluation on the quality of the coaches. I only know we need to be stronger up the middle is we are to compete for our division.

Chiefs done it, our OL needs to learn how to hold

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by dj43:

Originally posted by DaleGribble:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:
Not taking care of the Oline will be our demise.

Saying that Kyle has ignored the O line just isn't true. I went back and looked at the Walsh drafts and compared them to Kyles. They were nearly identical. Each drafted one O linemen in the 1st, une in the 2nd, one in the 3rd and none in the 4th rounds over a 7-8 year period. The guys Walsh drafted were genrally more successful but some of that was because of Bobb McKitrick. Unfortunately the guys Kyle drafted weren't as successful. McGlinchey was a starter and Puni looks to be solid. Burford and Banks were average at best.

The point is this constant mantra that Kyle ignores the line is BS. He drafted the same number of O linemen as Walsh but the players just weren't as good.

the fact that players weren't as good is kinda the issue,do you think Walsh would've stood pat if the guys he drafted had been mediocre at best?

A factor worth considering is that the college game back in Walsh's time was more like the pro game than it is now. Hence, though the round selection may have been the same, the quality level was better when they arrived in the pros.

Of course, the other factor, and it was huge, was Bobb McKittrick. He was HOF worthy and he created a blocking style that allowed lesser players to control better players. IOW, he was ahead of the game in that regard. That style is now illegal so the raw talent level is more important.

Both good points. The fact that Walsh had more success doesn't change the bogus narrative that Kyle ignores the O line. You need a couple years to evaluate the O line picks since the pro game is a lot different than the college game. Some guys learn quickly and others never do.

The salary cap has had an impact as well. In Walsh's day, he could have kept Aaron Banks, a good, not great OG, rather than give him up because another team was able to pay him more. When Banks was fully healthy, he was decent. Mike McGlinchey is another example. His career in Denver is roughly the same as it was here but we had to let him go for cap reasons.

Of course, one has to play the hand they are dealt. In this case, KS has brought in players he thought would work in his scheme, like Richburg and Mack, but time and injuries ruined that. We were told the targeted a couple of OTs that went just before they had the pick, so they went with better value players rather than need.

Drafting is not rocket science. It is an art but sometimes the paint gets messy.

Completely different eras and McKittirck was an all time great so I don't think it is fair to compare. But the point was made if you aren't hitting on the few o linemen you do draft then you need to look at your coaching and draft more/better regardless

Sure you can argue they are getting insane production and value out of journeymen, but come playoff time that comes back to bite them every year as these guys mostly cannot handle championship caliber defenses.

Clearly you don't win Super Bowls with a pack of journeymen OL. We need to get better. That begins with drafting players that develop into at least "above average" players. It also includes taking a hard look at how those players are being coached. I'm never on the practice field so I have no valid evaluation on the quality of the coaches. I only know we need to be stronger up the middle is we are to compete for our division.

I've heard that the 49ers O line coach is good so it's more about getting the right players. Of th 4 O linemen that Kyle has drafted 2 were good. One was marginal but had injury problems and the other one was a 4th rounder that never became a regular. Not a bad record. The other issue has been keeping them. McGlinchey and Banks both left because the Niners couldn't afford to keep them. Either that or they just felt they were asking too much.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Chiefs done it, our OL needs to learn how to hold

Exactamundo….but they call holding on us and not the Chiefs…..that is until the last SB