49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Scoots:
Funny thing about that ... the list of the best centers in team history in my mind is all but one players drafted as guards. Randy Cross, Jesse Sapolu, Jeremy Newberry, Eric Heitmann ... were all drafted as guards, and 2 of them were 2nd round picks. The lone exception is Forrest Blue who was a center taken in the 1st round so long ago he retired when I'd been watching football for 2 years but didn't play for the 49ers while I was following them. Bobb was like Foerster there too ... he liked veterans at C.

Marcus Martin was a bust ... I think he's the latest attempt at drafting a C in the first 2 days of the draft. But I may have forgotten someone.

I mean, I don't really care about past regimes to backup how we should or shouldn't draft in 2025.

Just because we drafted Brock in the 7th rd doesn't mean if we ever need a FQB again, we should wait until the 7th rd to do it.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with investing legit picks at center/OT. Those position groups are actually pretty damn important to this scheme….and if Kyle just can't fathom the idea of a rookie being a starting center (with all the protection calls) then fork over some cash there. It helps the whole OL and QB. It's not like C is some highly paid position compared to other positions

FWIW I'm not pro use a top 50 pick on a OG. Never have been. OT and center matter more here. Use some draft capital and spend a little money there. We've throw away tons of comp picks over the past couple yrs. You can never have too many good OL/DL guys.

I didn't say that the way it was done was how it should be done, was just pointing out that it's literally been this way with the 49ers since I've been watching.

Honestly I don't care at all where any position is picked, I just want them to work out.

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Scoots:
Funny thing about that ... the list of the best centers in team history in my mind is all but one players drafted as guards. Randy Cross, Jesse Sapolu, Jeremy Newberry, Eric Heitmann ... were all drafted as guards, and 2 of them were 2nd round picks. The lone exception is Forrest Blue who was a center taken in the 1st round so long ago he retired when I'd been watching football for 2 years but didn't play for the 49ers while I was following them. Bobb was like Foerster there too ... he liked veterans at C.

Marcus Martin was a bust ... I think he's the latest attempt at drafting a C in the first 2 days of the draft. But I may have forgotten someone.

I mean, I don't really care about past regimes to backup how we should or shouldn't draft in 2025.

Just because we drafted Brock in the 7th rd doesn't mean if we ever need a FQB again, we should wait until the 7th rd to do it.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with investing legit picks at center/OT. Those position groups are actually pretty damn important to this scheme….and if Kyle just can't fathom the idea of a rookie being a starting center (with all the protection calls) then fork over some cash there. It helps the whole OL and QB. It's not like C is some highly paid position compared to other positions

FWIW I'm not pro use a top 50 pick on a OG. Never have been. OT and center matter more here. Use some draft capital and spend a little money there. We've throw away tons of comp picks over the past couple yrs. You can never have too many good OL/DL guys.

I didn't say that the way it was done was how it should be done, was just pointing out that it's literally been this way with the 49ers since I've been watching.

Honestly I don't care at all where any position is picked, I just want them to work out.

I agree that it doesn't matter where players are picked. About 500 players currently on rosters were undrafted. Several more were late round picks. The draft is just an orderly way to select players. Half the guys never make it. Fans worry more about it more than teams do. They only care if a guy can play.

Originally posted by Scoots:
I didn't say that the way it was done was how it should be done, was just pointing out that it's literally been this way with the 49ers since I've been watching.

Honestly I don't care at all where any position is picked, I just want them to work out.

End of the day if an UDFA becomes the next Kelce I'm all of it…I see no problem or reason to debate trying to actually spend legit resources on C/OT for a change. Tossing some flex seal on a leaking roof isn't always gonna fix it.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I agree that it doesn't matter where players are picked. About 500 players currently on rosters were undrafted. Several more were late round picks. The draft is just an orderly way to select players. Half the guys never make it. Fans worry more about it more than teams do. They only care if a guy can play.

So why did Trent Williams go top 10 vs the 7th rd? Should we draft guys in alphabetical order? Acting like there's no such thing as talent level and who's actually played at a higher level in college is being silly.

The draft absolutely matters.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I agree that it doesn't matter where players are picked. About 500 players currently on rosters were undrafted. Several more were late round picks. The draft is just an orderly way to select players. Half the guys never make it. Fans worry more about it more than teams do. They only care if a guy can play.

So why did Trent Williams go top 10 vs the 7th rd? Should we draft guys in alphabetical order? Acting like there's no such thing as talent level and who's actually played at a higher level in college is being silly.

The draft absolutely matters.

I assume his point is that once you start playing it doesn't matter.

Tom Brady is better than any QB drafted in the top 10...though Mahomes may change that in time. I'd say the same thing for Joe Montana.

You have Trent but you also have a number of guys who were worse OTs in the NFL than Colton McKivitz. You have Jordan Mailata going in the 7th round.

Obviously the so called best players go earlier in the draft. You hope the talented guys you draft early develop as well and turn into AP studs.

But guys fall for different reasons. Some simply late bloomers, some end up playing well above their talent level and some were projects who end up putting it all together.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Scoots:
I didn't say that the way it was done was how it should be done, was just pointing out that it's literally been this way with the 49ers since I've been watching.

Honestly I don't care at all where any position is picked, I just want them to work out.

End of the day if an UDFA becomes the next Kelce I'm all of it…I see no problem or reason to debate trying to actually spend legit resources on C/OT for a change. Tossing some flex seal on a leaking roof isn't always gonna fix it.

Agreed. And I think the 49ers generally agree. If the OT they were hoping for had fallen to the 49ers picks in the last couple of drafts I think they would have taken an OT early ... but they didn't so they didn't. The big problem with that philosophy is when something goes clearly wrong like a major injury or retirement.

Because the 49ers have not added an OT early in the draft I think they will look hard this coming draft ... I hope Blake Miller is worth it and there when they draft.

If they don't draft one before Trent retires I think they will trade or swing big in free agency to replace him.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I agree that it doesn't matter where players are picked. About 500 players currently on rosters were undrafted. Several more were late round picks. The draft is just an orderly way to select players. Half the guys never make it. Fans worry more about it more than teams do. They only care if a guy can play.

So why did Trent Williams go top 10 vs the 7th rd? Should we draft guys in alphabetical order? Acting like there's no such thing as talent level and who's actually played at a higher level in college is being silly.

The draft absolutely matters.

I think he was saying that it doesn't matter where a player is drafted or how they are added to the team, what matters is what they make of it.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I agree that it doesn't matter where players are picked. About 500 players currently on rosters were undrafted. Several more were late round picks. The draft is just an orderly way to select players. Half the guys never make it. Fans worry more about it more than teams do. They only care if a guy can play.

So why did Trent Williams go top 10 vs the 7th rd? Should we draft guys in alphabetical order? Acting like there's no such thing as talent level and who's actually played at a higher level in college is being silly.

The draft absolutely matters.

I assume his point is that once you start playing it doesn't matter.

Tom Brady is better than any QB drafted in the top 10...though Mahomes may change that in time. I'd say the same thing for Joe Montana.

You have Trent but you also have a number of guys who were worse OTs in the NFL than Colton McKivitz. You have Jordan Mailata going in the 7th round.

Obviously the so called best players go earlier in the draft. You hope the talented guys you draft early develop as well and turn into AP studs.

But guys fall for different reasons. Some simply late bloomers, some end up playing well above their talent level and some were projects who end up putting it all together.

A big factor in where a player is drafted is health. If a guy was a stud for 3 years and played every down of every game he's going to go very early. If a guy was a stud but only played 30% of the snaps he's probably going to drop to the 3rd round. If a guy had a ton of potential but was raw and/or buried behind other studs you might be able to get him in the 5th round. Then there are the grinders who despite being far from the ideal size/athleticism are good players you get in the 7th.

The always healthy players might be hurt all the time (Fournette?), the grinders may be the greatest ever (Brady).

That said, finding a dominant LT less than 6'3" with less than 33" arms and less than 310 lbs is basically impossible in the modern NFL which is why they tend to go in the first few rounds.

Jordan Mailata obviously being a special case since drafting someone who has never played a snap of football is not something you can plan on succeeding except in incredibly rare circumstances.

Originally posted by genus49:
I assume his point is that once you start playing it doesn't matter.

Tom Brady is better than any QB drafted in the top 10...though Mahomes may change that in time. I'd say the same thing for Joe Montana.

You have Trent but you also have a number of guys who were worse OTs in the NFL than Colton McKivitz. You have Jordan Mailata going in the 7th round.

Obviously the so called best players go earlier in the draft. You hope the talented guys you draft early develop as well and turn into AP studs.

But guys fall for different reasons. Some simply late bloomers, some end up playing well above their talent level and some were projects who end up putting it all together.

See I disagree with this counter argument by bringing up players that aren't the norm but the exception when talking about success via draft slot

For every Brady and Mailata late rd success stories there are BY FAR more guys that turn into nothing in the later rds compared to earlier rd picks.

go look at how many QBs that are 1st rd picks that are in the playoffs most yrs. Go look at who are the premium pass rushers in the league and when they were taken. Mostly high end picks… same at OT.

Back to my OP here because it's clearly off track, I'm not saying you NEED to spend 1st rd picks on OL every yr to have a good OL. I'm saying you gotta invest there somewhat. I'm saying actually put some stock in developing there. Draft an actual center. Draft a legit OT to develop.

This shouldn't be some controversial take imo

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I agree that it doesn't matter where players are picked. About 500 players currently on rosters were undrafted. Several more were late round picks. The draft is just an orderly way to select players. Half the guys never make it. Fans worry more about it more than teams do. They only care if a guy can play.

So why did Trent Williams go top 10 vs the 7th rd? Should we draft guys in alphabetical order? Acting like there's no such thing as talent level and who's actually played at a higher level in college is being silly.

The draft absolutely matters.

I think he was saying that it doesn't matter where a player is drafted or how they are added to the team, what matters is what they make of it.

Which has nothing to do with what I'm saying…I could hit a hole any time I get up to the tee box on a par 3, the likelihood of that happening is damn near zero.

imo when you invest little into something you shouldn't expect that something to be good.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Scoots:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I agree that it doesn't matter where players are picked. About 500 players currently on rosters were undrafted. Several more were late round picks. The draft is just an orderly way to select players. Half the guys never make it. Fans worry more about it more than teams do. They only care if a guy can play.

So why did Trent Williams go top 10 vs the 7th rd? Should we draft guys in alphabetical order? Acting like there's no such thing as talent level and who's actually played at a higher level in college is being silly.

The draft absolutely matters.

I think he was saying that it doesn't matter where a player is drafted or how they are added to the team, what matters is what they make of it.

Which has nothing to do with what I'm saying…I could hit a hole any time I get up to the tee box on a par 3, the likelihood of that happening is damn near zero.

imo when you invest little into something you shouldn't expect that something to be good.

Yes, what you are saying to what he is saying has nothing to do with what he is saying, and when I explain that to you your response is that what you are saying has nothing to do with what I'm saying

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:
I assume his point is that once you start playing it doesn't matter.

Tom Brady is better than any QB drafted in the top 10...though Mahomes may change that in time. I'd say the same thing for Joe Montana.

You have Trent but you also have a number of guys who were worse OTs in the NFL than Colton McKivitz. You have Jordan Mailata going in the 7th round.

Obviously the so called best players go earlier in the draft. You hope the talented guys you draft early develop as well and turn into AP studs.

But guys fall for different reasons. Some simply late bloomers, some end up playing well above their talent level and some were projects who end up putting it all together.

See I disagree with this counter argument by bringing up players that aren't the norm but the exception when talking about success via draft slot

For every Brady and Mailata late rd success stories there are BY FAR more guys that turn into nothing in the later rds compared to earlier rd picks.

go look at how many QBs that are 1st rd picks that are in the playoffs most yrs. Go look at who are the premium pass rushers in the league and when they were taken. Mostly high end picks… same at OT.

Back to my OP here because it's clearly off track, I'm not saying you NEED to spend 1st rd picks on OL every yr to have a good OL. I'm saying you gotta invest there somewhat. I'm saying actually put some stock in developing there. Draft an actual center. Draft a legit OT to develop.

This shouldn't be some controversial take imo

Nobody is saying draft position has nothing to do with the pre-draft perception of those players or what they are more or less likely to become. But that is entirely about the draft. Once they are drafted it no longer matters. Then the only thing that matters is what happens going forward.

Originally posted by Scoots:
Yes, what you are saying to what he is saying has nothing to do with what he is saying, and when I explain that to you your response is that what you are saying has nothing to do with what I'm saying

You don't need to explain to me his point that has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

Originally posted by Scoots:
Nobody is saying draft position has nothing to do with the pre-draft perception of those players or what they are more or less likely to become. But that is entirely about the draft. Once they are drafted it no longer matters. Then the only thing that matters is what happens going forward.

I'm talking about actual investment in a position group. Whatever debate either of you are trying to have with me is missing the pt.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Scoots:
Yes, what you are saying to what he is saying has nothing to do with what he is saying, and when I explain that to you your response is that what you are saying has nothing to do with what I'm saying

You don't need to explain to me his point that has nothing to do with what I'm saying.

Well now we are just all talking past each other :)