49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by genus49:
First of all you know very well he's not actually going to make a quarter billion off this contract.

Second there's a reason you said NOW. Purdy was a 2nd year player, who very well could've found himself as the first rookie QB in the SB had his elbow not been destroyed vs the Eagles on that first drive. There was a lot of blame to go around in that game but Purdy was well down that list and considering what he was making at the time of the actual game you adding what he's making NOW is hilariously unnecessary.

If you step back and look at your posts, whatever issue you have with Purdy shouldn't cloud your analysis on the OL play. It may not be as terrible as some indicate but when it's bad it's ok to call it out without trying to throw jabs at the QB you're not sold on.

Notice how in that collection of plays you failed to bring up big Trent arguably having one of his worst games for us without being hurt? Killed a drive pretty much all on his own due to penalties. Lost a rep vs a PS guy on a key run play. Unlike Brock he was making top level money for a LT in that game.

OL was a big reason for that loss but there were certainly many other reasons, including Brock missing Aiyuk after the 2 min warning.

I have zero issues with Brock, I EXPECT the most important position in sports who makes vastly more money than anyone else on the team to make up for whatever is "lacking" that's part of the job description when you want a big fat paycheck and play QB.

Please tell me the last offensive lineman to win the MVP in a SB lol?

for me it's just the constant over blaming of an OL that yes isn't full of pro-bowlers…no one should be expected dominant play there. I SHOULD expect dominant play from all our star players. I should expect it from our elite QB who just signed the largest deal in franchise history.

my expectations and criticism is gonna be pointed at the folks making the most money and NOT showing up when it matters.

If Kobie Bryant had 10pts in a game 7 championship game, but Luke Walton missed the 3 to tie it, not a single fan is gonna be hammering on how s**tty Luke Walton was in that game yrs later.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:
First of all you know very well he's not actually going to make a quarter billion off this contract.

Second there's a reason you said NOW. Purdy was a 2nd year player, who very well could've found himself as the first rookie QB in the SB had his elbow not been destroyed vs the Eagles on that first drive. There was a lot of blame to go around in that game but Purdy was well down that list and considering what he was making at the time of the actual game you adding what he's making NOW is hilariously unnecessary.

If you step back and look at your posts, whatever issue you have with Purdy shouldn't cloud your analysis on the OL play. It may not be as terrible as some indicate but when it's bad it's ok to call it out without trying to throw jabs at the QB you're not sold on.

Notice how in that collection of plays you failed to bring up big Trent arguably having one of his worst games for us without being hurt? Killed a drive pretty much all on his own due to penalties. Lost a rep vs a PS guy on a key run play. Unlike Brock he was making top level money for a LT in that game.

OL was a big reason for that loss but there were certainly many other reasons, including Brock missing Aiyuk after the 2 min warning.

I have zero issues with Brock, I EXPECT the most important position in sports who makes vastly more money than anyone else on the team to make up for whatever is "lacking" that's part of the job description when you want a big fat paycheck and play QB.

Please tell me the last offensive lineman to win the MVP in a SB lol?

for me it's just the constant over blaming of an OL that yes isn't full of pro-bowlers…no one should be expected dominant play there. I SHOULD expect dominant play from all our star players. I should expect it from our elite QB who just signed the largest deal in franchise history.

my expectations and criticism is gonna be pointed at the folks making the most money and NOT showing up when it matters.

If Kobie Bryant had 10pts in a game 7 championship game, but Luke Walton missed the 3 to tie it, not a single fan is gonna be hammering on how s**tty Luke Walton was in that game yrs later.

over blaming? What does that mean? I know of no QB that can transcend a bad o-line on a consistent basis.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
over blaming? What does that mean? I know of no QB that can transcend a bad o-line on a consistent basis.

Outside of the eagles? What team was constructed of pro-bowler linemen across the board that won it all? At some point a QB and all the playmakers who make a f**k ton of cash HAVE to make up for whatever is "lacking" elsewhere.

yes over blaming…our OL has never been the main reason we win games. That's been on the backs of our all-star line up of playmakers on both sides of the ball. Where have they been at the most important moments? Where's SF game winning TD in a SB like Big Ben had? Where's our Mahomes 3rd and 15 moment? Where's our scramble on 3rd down in OT? Where's our Eli manning play? none of those types of plays were about the OL.

Where's our game winning stop on 3rd down? Where's our sack/INT to end a SB?

instead it's just wah we don't have an amazing center or our backup RG sucks…disregarding the top 10 paid talent all over the roster not showing up at the end of the most important game.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
over blaming? What does that mean? I know of no QB that can transcend a bad o-line on a consistent basis.

Outside of the eagles? What team was constructed of pro-bowler linemen across the board that won it all? At some point a QB and all the playmakers who make a f**k ton of cash HAVE to make up for whatever is "lacking" elsewhere.

yes over blaming…our OL has never been the main reason we win games. That's been on the backs of our all-star line up of playmakers on both sides of the ball. Where have they been at the most important moments? Where's SF game winning TD in a SB like Big Ben had? Where's our Mahomes 3rd and 15 moment? Where's our scramble on 3rd down in OT? Where's our Eli manning play? none of those types of plays were about the OL.

Where's our game winning stop on 3rd down? Where's our sack/INT to end a SB?

instead it's just wah we don't have an amazing center or our backup RG sucks…disregarding the top 10 paid talent all over the roster not showing up at the end of the most important game.

I'm a strong believer in building from the line out on both sides of the ball. However I agree with you that at some point the guys getting the big bucks need to make those game winning plays in crunch time. Contested catches in the end zone. Critical 1st down catches instead of coming up a yard short. INTs instead of tipped balls. Sacks instead of just pressures.

Originally posted by CatchMaster80:
I'm a strong believer in building from the line out on both sides of the ball. However I agree with you that at some point the guys getting the big bucks need to make those game winning plays in crunch time. Contested catches in the end zone. Critical 1st down catches instead of coming up a yard short. INTs instead of tipped balls. Sacks instead of just pressures.

Yup…end of the day however the team is built, the guys that got you there (and are paid to do so) need to show up when it matters.

Like my previous example…if Kobe Bryant s**ts the bed in game 7, but Luke Walton still had a chance to win the game on a missed 3…no one is gonna point to Luke Walton being the reason the Lakers lost the championship yrs from now. It's where the heck was Kobe when it mattered.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:
Read my post above NY. You're fighting this silly battle and you're putting crazy blinders on to do it.

You better believe I'm going to blame the backup LG, who btw was starting as a rookie and several games into that SB run season for doing his own thing and so should you if you're not busy taking underhanded shots at Purdy.

Once again...no mention of Trent and his bad plays in that game. Almost like you have an agenda you're pushing? Now Purdy is an elite young QB?

And you know very well we've been over that game many times and I've given blame to all those guys you brought up but to flat out gloss over the OL play and the mistakes they had in the game is ridiculous.

Your last line is just hyperbole. You can say that for any game you lose for crying out loud. Who were their elite players who stepped up when they had to have them without assistance from our injuries or mistakes? I can give you several examples where those guys tried...but cuz of the OL they didn't get a chance. Or does that not work for you?

I can sit back and say when Purdy makes a critical mistake. But you shrugging off Burford freelancing so Chris Jones has a free rush to Purdy who has no time to find two open WRs is ridiculous.

It's ok to call out the OL for playing poorly when they actually do it. Search your feelings, you know it to be true.

I'm not defending the OL, I'm saying this team has NEVER been reliant on how great the OL plays to win games.

we have a collection of amazing players across both sides of the ball. When our STAR players don't show up at the biggest moments, our players that play vastly more important roles to wins and losses don't step up to make those big plays, who's gives a s**t if a backup LG blows an assignment? We would have just allowed Mahomes to stroll down the field and score all the same.

and I call b******t with the "they tried" crap. The OL played no part in CMC fumbling. They played no part in Deebo dropping footballs or not running through faces. They played no part in Brock misreading a crucial 3rd down read. No part in Bosa not getting to Mahomes on 3rd downs or allowing Mahomes to scramble around to win it.

your BEST players are suppose to shut down the other teams best players. Your QB is suppose to step up and win that s**t. We've seen it time and time again for other teams throughout the history of the NFL. It's NEVER been oh thank god Eli manning's RG made the game winning block to win the SB.

But for whatever reason fans will gravitate towards the OL and the blame for everything…yes they play a part and of course they matter. They don't take precedent over the poor play of all our "great" players that decided to disappear at the biggest moments.

First of all Bosa allowing Mahomes to scramble around is an absurd gripe to come up with for a pass rusher. If you're talking about him going inside on the 4th down that's a coaching decision and not the first time we've seen it done.

Second the OL played a part in key moments including literally the last play on offense a should be TD play turned into a FG attempt where we lost by 3/4 points.

OL played a part in giving up key pressures, taking bad penalties or getting pushed back on key run plays. It's ok to call them out and not play the "the all pros should've done better" CMC fumbled on his own. CMC got stuffed on runs where guys, including Trent were worked by KC defenders.

Trent all on his own basically killed our 2nd drive. A drive in which Kittle and Brock made a big play to convert a long down after Trent's false start...only to get a holding call(iffy but still ill timed)

How many people complained about the 3 and outs in the 3rd quarter? Go back and look at the OL play on those. Whether Trent getting pushed back by a PS call up to drop CMC for a 0 yard gain. The pressure given up on the first attempt with Kittle open for a huge play after the Mahomes pick? Aaron Banks false starting and pushing us back and taking away a run look.

All I'm saying is it's ok to call these things out. That's what made the SB so frustrating. Too many mistakes, too many guys dropping the ball(literally in some cases) but when you make a list of the top dogs on the team not coming up and not mentioning Trent Williams who many people consider the best player overall in the NFL screams like an agenda from you.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:
First of all you know very well he's not actually going to make a quarter billion off this contract.

Second there's a reason you said NOW. Purdy was a 2nd year player, who very well could've found himself as the first rookie QB in the SB had his elbow not been destroyed vs the Eagles on that first drive. There was a lot of blame to go around in that game but Purdy was well down that list and considering what he was making at the time of the actual game you adding what he's making NOW is hilariously unnecessary.

If you step back and look at your posts, whatever issue you have with Purdy shouldn't cloud your analysis on the OL play. It may not be as terrible as some indicate but when it's bad it's ok to call it out without trying to throw jabs at the QB you're not sold on.

Notice how in that collection of plays you failed to bring up big Trent arguably having one of his worst games for us without being hurt? Killed a drive pretty much all on his own due to penalties. Lost a rep vs a PS guy on a key run play. Unlike Brock he was making top level money for a LT in that game.

OL was a big reason for that loss but there were certainly many other reasons, including Brock missing Aiyuk after the 2 min warning.

I have zero issues with Brock, I EXPECT the most important position in sports who makes vastly more money than anyone else on the team to make up for whatever is "lacking" that's part of the job description when you want a big fat paycheck and play QB.

Please tell me the last offensive lineman to win the MVP in a SB lol?

for me it's just the constant over blaming of an OL that yes isn't full of pro-bowlers…no one should be expected dominant play there. I SHOULD expect dominant play from all our star players. I should expect it from our elite QB who just signed the largest deal in franchise history.

my expectations and criticism is gonna be pointed at the folks making the most money and NOT showing up when it matters.

If Kobie Bryant had 10pts in a game 7 championship game, but Luke Walton missed the 3 to tie it, not a single fan is gonna be hammering on how s**tty Luke Walton was in that game yrs later.

Brock Purdy was making less than our punter and our rookie kicker in the SB. Not sure why you keep bringing up his money when discussing THAT game?

Seems like he played well above your expectations given the $ he was making no?

Expecting a 2nd year QB to recognize a brilliantly designed blitz from a DC who was making prime Tom Brady look lost, while getting paid peanuts is poor expectations. Yes Purdy didn't read it right, neither did his veteran center who is calling protections. Yes Purdy should've known to throw to Aiyuk since McDuffie was coming off his spot to blitz but plenty other plays before that Brock couldn't make because the OL let him down.

This type of thought process is what's gotten us in trouble over the years. The team can get around mediocre OL play when things are clicking but in key moments, especially with guys who can't beat man coverage and Kittle dealing with a bad shoulder injury you need a little extra time to make those throws. We're not getting them in those situations.

But yes moving forward Brock has a bullseye on him with that contract. Just make sure when there is blame on the OL you don't gloss over it because Brock is making all this money that he should be magical.

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Outside of the eagles? What team was constructed of pro-bowler linemen across the board that won it all? At some point a QB and all the playmakers who make a f**k ton of cash HAVE to make up for whatever is "lacking" elsewhere.

yes over blaming…our OL has never been the main reason we win games. That's been on the backs of our all-star line up of playmakers on both sides of the ball. Where have they been at the most important moments? Where's SF game winning TD in a SB like Big Ben had? Where's our Mahomes 3rd and 15 moment? Where's our scramble on 3rd down in OT? Where's our Eli manning play? none of those types of plays were about the OL.

Where's our game winning stop on 3rd down? Where's our sack/INT to end a SB?

instead it's just wah we don't have an amazing center or our backup RG sucks…disregarding the top 10 paid talent all over the roster not showing up at the end of the most important game.

Brother...you're reaching hard, I hope you stretched.

Go back and watch that TD by Ben and tell me how much time he had to find Holmes.

Mahomes 3rd and 15 or Manning play? That's the refs not calling holds. When Brock makes a play to pick up 17 yards it gets wiped away for holding.

As for the other stuff...did Brock not do that vs the Lions? A little harder to do that vs a dominant defense coached by one of the best coordinators when your QB is just in his 2nd year in the league.

Those are the expectations you have and they're way out there. You bring up Ben...what did he look like as a 2nd year player in the SB?

9/21 123 yards 0 TDs 2 INT, 25 yards rushing and a rushing TD vs a defense coached by Ray Rhodes 7th in points allowed, 16 in yards allowed.

I agree with you, that our guys need to step up in critical moments but it's not a point that only applies to the skill players/defenders. The guys on the OL get paid also. Not sure why you keep sweeping their mistakes under the rug simply because they're not the reason we're winning games.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:
First of all you know very well he's not actually going to make a quarter billion off this contract.

Second there's a reason you said NOW. Purdy was a 2nd year player, who very well could've found himself as the first rookie QB in the SB had his elbow not been destroyed vs the Eagles on that first drive. There was a lot of blame to go around in that game but Purdy was well down that list and considering what he was making at the time of the actual game you adding what he's making NOW is hilariously unnecessary.

If you step back and look at your posts, whatever issue you have with Purdy shouldn't cloud your analysis on the OL play. It may not be as terrible as some indicate but when it's bad it's ok to call it out without trying to throw jabs at the QB you're not sold on.

Notice how in that collection of plays you failed to bring up big Trent arguably having one of his worst games for us without being hurt? Killed a drive pretty much all on his own due to penalties. Lost a rep vs a PS guy on a key run play. Unlike Brock he was making top level money for a LT in that game.

OL was a big reason for that loss but there were certainly many other reasons, including Brock missing Aiyuk after the 2 min warning.

I have zero issues with Brock, I EXPECT the most important position in sports who makes vastly more money than anyone else on the team to make up for whatever is "lacking" that's part of the job description when you want a big fat paycheck and play QB.

Please tell me the last offensive lineman to win the MVP in a SB lol?

for me it's just the constant over blaming of an OL that yes isn't full of pro-bowlers…no one should be expected dominant play there. I SHOULD expect dominant play from all our star players. I should expect it from our elite QB who just signed the largest deal in franchise history.

my expectations and criticism is gonna be pointed at the folks making the most money and NOT showing up when it matters.

If Kobie Bryant had 10pts in a game 7 championship game, but Luke Walton missed the 3 to tie it, not a single fan is gonna be hammering on how s**tty Luke Walton was in that game yrs later.

Brock Purdy was making less than our punter and our rookie kicker in the SB. Not sure why you keep bringing up his money when discussing THAT game?

Seems like he played well above your expectations given the $ he was making no?

Expecting a 2nd year QB to recognize a brilliantly designed blitz from a DC who was making prime Tom Brady look lost, while getting paid peanuts is poor expectations. Yes Purdy didn't read it right, neither did his veteran center who is calling protections. Yes Purdy should've known to throw to Aiyuk since McDuffie was coming off his spot to blitz but plenty other plays before that Brock couldn't make because the OL let him down.

This type of thought process is what's gotten us in trouble over the years. The team can get around mediocre OL play when things are clicking but in key moments, especially with guys who can't beat man coverage and Kittle dealing with a bad shoulder injury you need a little extra time to make those throws. We're not getting them in those situations.

But yes moving forward Brock has a bullseye on him with that contract. Just make sure when there is blame on the OL you don't gloss over it because Brock is making all this money that he should be magical.

Brock played way better than anyone expected from a 7th round pick. Now that he's been rewarded with a big contract he's going to need to play even better to show he's worth it. Good won't be good enough. He's going to need more of those big plays at crucial times. Making a great throw in the 1st quarter but missing one in the 4th quarter won't cut it. Fans will expect more. I imagine Brock is going to expect more from himself to show all the doubters that he's worth the money.

Originally posted by genus49:

Originally posted by NYniner85:
Outside of the eagles? What team was constructed of pro-bowler linemen across the board that won it all? At some point a QB and all the playmakers who make a f**k ton of cash HAVE to make up for whatever is "lacking" elsewhere.

yes over blaming…our OL has never been the main reason we win games. That's been on the backs of our all-star line up of playmakers on both sides of the ball. Where have they been at the most important moments? Where's SF game winning TD in a SB like Big Ben had? Where's our Mahomes 3rd and 15 moment? Where's our scramble on 3rd down in OT? Where's our Eli manning play? none of those types of plays were about the OL.

Where's our game winning stop on 3rd down? Where's our sack/INT to end a SB?

instead it's just wah we don't have an amazing center or our backup RG sucks…disregarding the top 10 paid talent all over the roster not showing up at the end of the most important game.

Brother...you're reaching hard, I hope you stretched.

Go back and watch that TD by Ben and tell me how much time he had to find Holmes.

Mahomes 3rd and 15 or Manning play? That's the refs not calling holds. When Brock makes a play to pick up 17 yards it gets wiped away for holding.

As for the other stuff...did Brock not do that vs the Lions? A little harder to do that vs a dominant defense coached by one of the best coordinators when your QB is just in his 2nd year in the league.

Those are the expectations you have and they're way out there. You bring up Ben...what did he look like as a 2nd year player in the SB?

9/21 123 yards 0 TDs 2 INT, 25 yards rushing and a rushing TD vs a defense coached by Ray Rhodes 7th in points allowed, 16 in yards allowed.

I agree with you, that our guys need to step up in critical moments but it's not a point that only applies to the skill players/defenders. The guys on the OL get paid also. Not sure why you keep sweeping their mistakes under the rug simply because they're not the reason we're winning games.

Exactly and I think he misses the point of his own argument here.

The eagles dominated the trenches and walked away with that SB even though Hurts was suspect early on and threw a bad pick. Point? It's a lot easier to absorb mistakes or off days from skill players when the lines are dominant. Hurts recovered and played very well the rest of the game. That helps when you have all day to throw. Now try to have a QB recover from bad line play, or a run defense recover from bad line play etc... not happening.

I would also counter your argument as I also think it's silly to directly compare each team. What works for one may not work for another erc, but the universal truth in football is building dominant trenches leads to success. I would argue the 49ers o-line is the main reason we have not won a SB under Kyle.

Originally posted by genus49:
Brother...you're reaching hard, I hope you stretched.

Go back and watch that TD by Ben and tell me how much time he had to find Holmes.

Mahomes 3rd and 15 or Manning play? That's the refs not calling holds. When Brock makes a play to pick up 17 yards it gets wiped away for holding.

As for the other stuff...did Brock not do that vs the Lions? A little harder to do that vs a dominant defense coached by one of the best coordinators when your QB is just in his 2nd year in the league.

Those are the expectations you have and they're way out there. You bring up Ben...what did he look like as a 2nd year player in the SB?

9/21 123 yards 0 TDs 2 INT, 25 yards rushing and a rushing TD vs a defense coached by Ray Rhodes 7th in points allowed, 16 in yards allowed.

I agree with you, that our guys need to step up in critical moments but it's not a point that only applies to the skill players/defenders. The guys on the OL get paid also. Not sure why you keep sweeping their mistakes under the rug simply because they're not the reason we're winning games.

Reaching? Nah it's pretty simple, I want my best players to play their best at the most important points in their career. Overall THOSE players, you know the ones that make the most cash & the ones that actually were the reason SF was even in the SB have failed to show up.

yes Brock did do that vs the Lions, he's got to do more if we want to win it all. Plain and simple. His paycheck now reflects it….I mean I could go the route and say the lions were a "fluff" game because their defense overall in 2023 was junk (just like you tossed out the fluff games for our center ).

I saw Big Ben go basically the full length of the field, he made plays WHEN IT MATTERED. He created that time to throw on the final drive downfield and delivered a brass balls throw that only Holmes could catch.

Mahomes willed his team to win it. Plain and simple. He created time to throw the ball. He scrambled for clutch 1st downs. He made the right reads and made accurate passes.

this isn't about sweeping whatever under the rug. It's about expecting your best players to play their best when it matters…not blaming players that overall weren't the main reason you've gotten ro where you were. Outside of Trent none of those guys are making massive amounts of cash to be elite level lineman. Do I want a better OL, sure who doesn't? I want my highly paid players to make up for whatever is "lacking" that's why they're getting paid.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Exactly and I think he misses the point of his own argument here.

The eagles dominated the trenches and walked away with that SB even though Hurts was suspect early on and threw a bad pick. Point? It's a lot easier to absorb mistakes or off days from skill players when the lines are dominant. Hurts recovered and played very well the rest of the game. That helps when you have all day to throw. Now try to have a QB recover from bad line play, or a run defense recover from bad line play etc... not happening.

I would also counter your argument as I also think it's silly to directly compare each team. What works for one may not work for another erc, but the universal truth in football is building dominant trenches leads to success. I would argue the 49ers o-line is the main reason we have not won a SB under Kyle.

Meh the defense dominated. Eagles actually couldn't run the ball at all. Hurts played well because the defense kept giving him multiple opportunities.

Secondary has been as big if not a bigger reason.

Originally posted by genus49:
Brock Purdy was making less than our punter and our rookie kicker in the SB. Not sure why you keep bringing up his money when discussing THAT game?

Seems like he played well above your expectations given the $ he was making no?

Expecting a 2nd year QB to recognize a brilliantly designed blitz from a DC who was making prime Tom Brady look lost, while getting paid peanuts is poor expectations. Yes Purdy didn't read it right, neither did his veteran center who is calling protections. Yes Purdy should've known to throw to Aiyuk since McDuffie was coming off his spot to blitz but plenty other plays before that Brock couldn't make because the OL let him down.

This type of thought process is what's gotten us in trouble over the years. The team can get around mediocre OL play when things are clicking but in key moments, especially with guys who can't beat man coverage and Kittle dealing with a bad shoulder injury you need a little extra time to make those throws. We're not getting them in those situations.

But yes moving forward Brock has a bullseye on him with that contract. Just make sure when there is blame on the OL you don't gloss over it because Brock is making all this money that he should be magical.

He plays quarterback! Jesus man, he's not the center he's not the safety. He's not the RG. He's the freaking QB…now he has the massive paycheck along with playing the most important position in sports.

here you are giving Brock excuses for not hitting a correct hot read. Yet you have no problem crushing a backup RG. Dude acting like Brock had zero influence over projections is silly like he's completely clueless where pressure might be coming from…but yes let's criticize the center who's also only been a starter for 2yrs at that point.

no the thought process is your best players need to make plays when it matters. Period. Just like every other team in the NFL. There's about 28-30 other teams that could complain about their OL all the same.

for me I don't expect the OL to be elite, we weren't winning games all this time because they were. So when s**t isn't going well, I don't put all the blame on them either. Our best players need to close out games for once.

Originally posted by Cisco0623:
Exactly and I think he misses the point of his own argument here.

The eagles dominated the trenches and walked away with that SB even though Hurts was suspect early on and threw a bad pick. Point? It's a lot easier to absorb mistakes or off days from skill players when the lines are dominant. Hurts recovered and played very well the rest of the game. That helps when you have all day to throw. Now try to have a QB recover from bad line play, or a run defense recover from bad line play etc... not happening.

I would also counter your argument as I also think it's silly to directly compare each team. What works for one may not work for another erc, but the universal truth in football is building dominant trenches leads to success. I would argue the 49ers o-line is the main reason we have not won a SB under Kyle.

You're missing the point completely. Every team is built differently. The best OL of DL doesn't always win all the games. Look at SF in 2023. They lived off their skilled players on both sides of the ball. Best team in the league #1 seed, multiple MVP finalists.

now if those players don't show up, who's fault is that? The middle of the field OL? Nah it's the guys who performed all yr that either didn't show up or couldn't make the plays at the end of the game.

I could argue we lost two super bowls because of s**t QB play in the second half of one and not being able to stop Mahomes when it mattered in the second one. KC's best players, the ones who won them games all year showed up when it mattered.

where the hell was kittle, Deebo, Bosa? Even CMC had a massive fumble. Those dudes gotta show up at those important points for this team to win. That's just how it goes.

Originally posted by NYniner85:

Originally posted by genus49:
Brother...you're reaching hard, I hope you stretched.

Go back and watch that TD by Ben and tell me how much time he had to find Holmes.

Mahomes 3rd and 15 or Manning play? That's the refs not calling holds. When Brock makes a play to pick up 17 yards it gets wiped away for holding.

As for the other stuff...did Brock not do that vs the Lions? A little harder to do that vs a dominant defense coached by one of the best coordinators when your QB is just in his 2nd year in the league.

Those are the expectations you have and they're way out there. You bring up Ben...what did he look like as a 2nd year player in the SB?

9/21 123 yards 0 TDs 2 INT, 25 yards rushing and a rushing TD vs a defense coached by Ray Rhodes 7th in points allowed, 16 in yards allowed.

I agree with you, that our guys need to step up in critical moments but it's not a point that only applies to the skill players/defenders. The guys on the OL get paid also. Not sure why you keep sweeping their mistakes under the rug simply because they're not the reason we're winning games.

Reaching? Nah it's pretty simple, I want my best players to play their best at the most important points in their career. Overall THOSE players, you know the ones that make the most cash & the ones that actually were the reason SF was even in the SB have failed to show up.

yes Brock did do that vs the Lions, he's got to do more if we want to win it all. Plain and simple. His paycheck now reflects it….I mean I could go the route and say the lions were a "fluff" game because their defense overall in 2023 was junk (just like you tossed out the fluff games for our center ).

I saw Big Ben go basically the full length of the field, he made plays WHEN IT MATTERED. He created that time to throw on the final drive downfield and delivered a brass balls throw that only Holmes could catch.

Mahomes willed his team to win it. Plain and simple. He created time to throw the ball. He scrambled for clutch 1st downs. He made the right reads and made accurate passes.

this isn't about sweeping whatever under the rug. It's about expecting your best players to play their best when it matters…not blaming players that overall weren't the main reason you've gotten ro where you were. Outside of Trent none of those guys are making massive amounts of cash to be elite level lineman. Do I want a better OL, sure who doesn't? I want my highly paid players to make up for whatever is "lacking" that's why they're getting paid.

So you just ignore the points like Ben didn't make that drive as a 2nd year player? This is all about your expectations being way out of whack my friend.

Once again Trent Williams wasn't making big money in that game? It was his first SB...it was one of his worst games for us when he wasn't injured and that's our BEST.

Mahomes willed his team...does that happen if the refs call the actual holding that's happening on that play or earlier on that drive? Do we not remember how poorly he was playing before that drive? Once again - it's not like Mahomes simply went super saiyan and just took the game over. We got held on that play and had a coverage bust. Yes he made the play but it's just as much about our mistakes as it was his "will to win"

We spent a lot of time complaining about the refs in that 2019 SB and the lack of holding calls...but now cuz it suits your argument a few years later it's Mahomes willing his team to win it.

You would've had a more genuine argument there by using Chris Jones.