49ers Offensive Line

I think I'm smelling the use of a screen pass this year!

Originally posted by ltrain:

I think I'm smelling the use of a screen pass this year!

LMAO. Bingo...and hopefully better pass protection d/t increase mental and physical sharpness.

Originally posted by PopeyeJonesing:

As for your projected starters I'm guessing it will probably come down to if the team thinks they're better off with Martin at G and Boone at T or Boone at G and Pears at T.

This.

All this makes me feel much more optimistic about the OL. Love the idea of quick, athletic and in-shape linemen. Get out on those screens for huge gains and have some damn fun!

Originally posted by ltrain:

I think I'm smelling the use of a screen pass this year!

This!

Personally, I dont like what I'm reading about the coaching staffs approach to the offensive line. It smacks of someone without vision or identity. As most of you have already pointed out, ZBS is totally different than the power run game we are use to and built for. It takes a different kind of player than what we've been drafting.Of course, with the exception of Staley, every other position is in flux and up for grabs. It should not be overlooked that to be able to run both schemes, you need very intelligent and gifted players. IMO, Staley is the only player clearly talented enough to run both schemes at an elite level. He has the size, quickness and conditioning. Everyone else is a giant question mark, emphasis on the word GIANT. They are different schemes and require different strengths. So unless you think we have a starting line up of All-Pros, we may be in for a rude awaking. In other words, we could end up with a bunch of guys who can execute both schemes, but neither scheme at an elite level. I would hate for our Oline to be the "jack of all trades, master of none" of the NFL.


Moreover, the last thing we need is our YOUNG Oline getting all confused about who they should be blocking on any given play. Information overload, here we come.... No matter how you slice it, I expect there to be a gigantic learning curve and serious growing pains. This is the NFL, not HS football. All 31 teams are also professionals and come to play. To think we are going to implement a new scheme with our new oline and dominate in the first year is the epitome of arrogance. The Oline USED to be the strength of our team, now its the biggest question mark.

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:
Personally, I dont like what I'm reading about the coaching staffs approach to the offensive line. It smacks of someone without vision or identity. As most of you have already pointed out, ZBS is totally different than the power run game we are use to and built for. It takes a different kind of player than what we've been drafting.Of course, with the exception of Staley, every other position is in flux and up for grabs. It should not be overlooked that to be able to run both schemes, you need very intelligent and gifted players. IMO, Staley is the only player clearly talented enough to run both schemes at an elite level. He has the size, quickness and conditioning. Everyone else is a giant question mark, emphasis on the word GIANT. They are different schemes and require different strengths. So unless you think we have a starting line up of All-Pros, we may be in for a rude awaking. In other words, we could end up with a bunch of guys who can execute both schemes, but neither scheme at an elite level. I would hate for our Oline to be the "jack of all trades, master of none" of the NFL.


Moreover, the last thing we need is our YOUNG Oline getting all confused about who they should be blocking on any given play. Information overload, here we come.... No matter how you slice it, I expect there to be a gigantic learning curve and serious growing pains. This is the NFL, not HS football. All 31 teams are also professionals and come to play. To think we are going to implement a new scheme with our new oline and dominate in the first year is the epitome of arrogance. The Oline USED to be the strength of our team, now its the biggest question mark.

Seems legit to me. Lots to sort out between now and then. Fortunately we have the best ZBS coaches on staff but ultimately this OL is going to be paramount to our success or misfortune. Otherwise scheme (all passes out under 3 seconds) is going to have to help out a lot early on.

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Not to mention that baalke has a stable of RBs ready to go or to go in for certain plays, or to give Hyde a blow. So not only do we have a stable of OLs we have the same at the RB position. And that just makes an injury that much easier to recover from. Some teams don't have 5 starting OLs, and we do...plus at least 4 likely starters elsewhere, who can come in to take over if a man goes down. Now that should make somebody feel good about our OL/running game.

I also really dont like this. Talk about tipping your hand. It doesn't matter how good you are, if you tell the other team what your going to do with certain personnel packages, its probably not going to work. The NFL is Darwinian as it gets. You might be able to trick a team/s for a while, but it wont work for very long. Remember how dominant the "jumbo package" was for a season? Remember how hapless it was there after? Same thing. If teams know whats coming in general, you're screwed.

Edit: I dont mean to come off like a negative Nancy, but if there is one thing that has been ingrained in me after watching 3 out of 4 seasons of championship football, is that there is no substitute for technically sound, no frills, hard nosed football. My fear is that this new, but experienced coaching staff of failed head coaches will go into the season trying to fix and be every thing for every occasion. They will over plan and over educate for every possible situation instead of just focusing on specific brand of football and making sure the players can execute that brand in their sleep. I'd rather have 25 good plays the players know inside and out and execute soundly, than a playbook of 200 plays that nobody knows that well. In short, keep it simple stupid. (not Roman simple of course... )

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Not to mention that baalke has a stable of RBs ready to go or to go in for certain plays, or to give Hyde a blow. So not only do we have a stable of OLs we have the same at the RB position. And that just makes an injury that much easier to recover from. Some teams don't have 5 starting OLs, and we do...plus at least 4 likely starters elsewhere, who can come in to take over if a man goes down. Now that should make somebody feel good about our OL/running game.

I also really dont like this. Talk about tipping your hand. It doesn't matter how good you are, if you tell the other team what your going to do with certain personnel packages, its probably not going to work. The NFL is Darwinian as it gets. You might be able to trick a team/s for a while, but it wont work for very long. Remember how dominant the "jumbo package" was for a season? Remember how hapless it was there after? Same thing. If teams know whats coming in general, you're screwed.

I really don't think this will be any more of a tip than Gore, Hunter and Booby Dixon. They can all get outside better than Gore and they can all catch out of the backfield...so I'm not too worried. Can the niners be any more predictable than they were with Roman...OK, besides being with Raye?

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Not to mention that baalke has a stable of RBs ready to go or to go in for certain plays, or to give Hyde a blow. So not only do we have a stable of OLs we have the same at the RB position. And that just makes an injury that much easier to recover from. Some teams don't have 5 starting OLs, and we do...plus at least 4 likely starters elsewhere, who can come in to take over if a man goes down. Now that should make somebody feel good about our OL/running game.

I also really dont like this. Talk about tipping your hand. It doesn't matter how good you are, if you tell the other team what your going to do with certain personnel packages, its probably not going to work. The NFL is Darwinian as it gets. You might be able to trick a team/s for a while, but it wont work for very long. Remember how dominant the "jumbo package" was for a season? Remember how hapless it was there after? Same thing. If teams know whats coming in general, you're screwed.

I really don't think this will be any more of a tip than Gore, Hunter and Booby Dixon. They can all get outside better than Gore and they can all catch out of the backfield...so I'm not too worried. Can the niners be any more predictable than they were with Roman...OK, besides being with Raye?

You're right, its all how they do it.

The O Line is in big trouble with the retirements and free agent departures. It's going to be a lot worse.

Originally posted by SanDiego49er:

The O Line is in big trouble with the retirements and free agent departures. It's going to be a lot worse.

How much worse can it get? Last season:

Iupati had a broken foot and was awful in pass pro
Kilgore played great IMO then broke his leg
Boone held out and while he eventually came out of it, I thought he looked terrible the first several games back
Davis only played a couple games, and wasn't his old self.
Jonathan Martin replaced him and was awful

Let's look to next year:

Staley- the only guy who toughed last year out. He'll be fine.
Brandon Thomas- unknown. Maybe not quite the run blocker as Iupati but maybe better pass pro. Better fit for our ZBS?
Kilgore- loved the guy last year. Should be the same or better.
Marcus Martin- big, strong, and young. Might not grade as high as Boone, but I don't think he'll be far behind. Versatile like Boone but kicks inside instead of out. He got better as the year went on.
Boone- this is where IMO we can improve big time from last year. Boone can play tackle in this league. If he doesn't hold out for more money he could play his way into a nice tackle contract.

I'm not saying our OL will seem as dominant as it did in the early harbaugh years when we were successfully running power with a bunch of huge, healthy beasts. But IMO it will be better than last year.

Edit: I'm not gonna expect anything from Silberman, Pears, or Brown until pre season

Originally posted by Homer:
How much worse can it get? Last season:

Iupati had a broken foot and was awful in pass pro
Kilgore played great IMO then broke his leg
Boone held out and while he eventually came out of it, I thought he looked terrible the first several games back
Davis only played a couple games, and wasn't his old self.
Jonathan Martin replaced him and was awful

Let's look to next year:

Staley- the only guy who toughed last year out. He'll be fine.
Brandon Thomas- unknown. Maybe not quite the run blocker as Iupati but maybe better pass pro. Better fit for our ZBS?
Kilgore- loved the guy last year. Should be the same or better.
Marcus Martin- big, strong, and young. Might not grade as high as Boone, but I don't think he'll be far behind. Versatile like Boone but kicks inside instead of out. He got better as the year went on.
Boone- this is where IMO we can improve big time from last year. Boone can play tackle in this league. If he doesn't hold out for more money he could play his way into a nice tackle contract.

I'm not saying our OL will seem as dominant as it did in the early harbaugh years when we were successfully running power with a bunch of huge, healthy beasts. But IMO it will be better than last year.

Edit: I'm not gonna expect anything from Silberman, Pears, or Brown until pre season

I really like this statement! Iupati was rated very high by PFF because they give run blocking more weight than pass blocking. Next year's line may not be rated as highly but may be much more functional.

But the OL can take time to meld into a cohesive unit so we'll have to wait and see what happens. Optimism isn't a bad thing though!

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Oakland-Niner:

Originally posted by pasodoc9er:
Not to mention that baalke has a stable of RBs ready to go or to go in for certain plays, or to give Hyde a blow. So not only do we have a stable of OLs we have the same at the RB position. And that just makes an injury that much easier to recover from. Some teams don't have 5 starting OLs, and we do...plus at least 4 likely starters elsewhere, who can come in to take over if a man goes down. Now that should make somebody feel good about our OL/running game.

I also really dont like this. Talk about tipping your hand. It doesn't matter how good you are, if you tell the other team what your going to do with certain personnel packages, its probably not going to work. The NFL is Darwinian as it gets. You might be able to trick a team/s for a while, but it wont work for very long. Remember how dominant the "jumbo package" was for a season? Remember how hapless it was there after? Same thing. If teams know whats coming in general, you're screwed.

I really don't think this will be any more of a tip than Gore, Hunter and Booby Dixon. They can all get outside better than Gore and they can all catch out of the backfield...so I'm not too worried. Can the niners be any more predictable than they were with Roman...OK, besides being with Raye?

This.

Everyone on the planet knew what were going to do on offense.

Originally posted by dtg_9er:

Originally posted by Homer:
How much worse can it get? Last season:

Iupati had a broken foot and was awful in pass pro
Kilgore played great IMO then broke his leg
Boone held out and while he eventually came out of it, I thought he looked terrible the first several games back
Davis only played a couple games, and wasn't his old self.
Jonathan Martin replaced him and was awful

Let's look to next year:

Staley- the only guy who toughed last year out. He'll be fine.
Brandon Thomas- unknown. Maybe not quite the run blocker as Iupati but maybe better pass pro. Better fit for our ZBS?
Kilgore- loved the guy last year. Should be the same or better.
Marcus Martin- big, strong, and young. Might not grade as high as Boone, but I don't think he'll be far behind. Versatile like Boone but kicks inside instead of out. He got better as the year went on.
Boone- this is where IMO we can improve big time from last year. Boone can play tackle in this league. If he doesn't hold out for more money he could play his way into a nice tackle contract.

I'm not saying our OL will seem as dominant as it did in the early harbaugh years when we were successfully running power with a bunch of huge, healthy beasts. But IMO it will be better than last year.

Edit: I'm not gonna expect anything from Silberman, Pears, or Brown until pre season

I really like this statement! Iupati was rated very high by PFF because they give run blocking more weight than pass blocking. Next year's line may not be rated as highly but may be much more functional.

But the OL can take time to meld into a cohesive unit so we'll have to wait and see what happens. Optimism isn't a bad thing though!

Love these perspectives! We were a power running team with all-pro players (Staley, Iupati, Goodwin, Davis and Gore/Miller) going completely against the grain of the NFL at that time...at that time, teams weren't spending any money on the DL but big on DB's to combat the new "passing league." The NFL hadn't seen jumbo packages or a million pre-snap shifts and personnel coming in and out of the lineups nor had they any idea how to defend CK as a runner as well. In short, we were ahead of the NFL at that time not only in personnel but in scheme.

Flash forward to 2015, the NFL has seen some huge production from implementing a ZBS (Redskins, Ravens last year, Seahawks every year, etc.).

And now we have that scheme here with the two best ZBS coaches in the game in Foerster/Wolford. While they worked with our personnel exclusively on diet, cardio, weight, etc. and 100% on ZB concepts, they also say we'll still run power as well. M.Martin has worked his ass off (literally) to trim down, you know Staley should be effective in this scheme, Thomas, Kilgore, Farrell, etc. all have experience in the ZBS. How about Looney (good pulling G which requires moving and blocking on the move), Brown, Silberman, etc.

At the end of the day, while nobody outside Staley is the big "name" superficial fans and national media can recognize, this unit may end up being very equipped for this scheme and has the potential to come together as a synced-up unit with plenty of time to spare before the season starts. I also don't buy that we'll be both a power running AND ZBS team. I think we're seeing the natural transition (right now) of a major shift away from power into a full time ZBS.

We also can't forget that CK, Hyde, Hunter, Bush and Davis should all absolutely have a field day in this scheme should the OL come together as a unit and play effectively. Either way, I doubt it will be as successful of the 2012 OL right out of the gate (they had previous time together), but I agree that this unit SHOULD BE much better than last year which was absolutely horrendous with zero accountability. This coaching staff is willing to try new personnel combinations and may the best 5 win!