49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
The throw to toney on the last drive would have been analyzed to hell if it were Jimmy.

It was behind toney by 5 degrees and the point of the ball was trending to the left.

i think we all would give jimmy a pass if he had won two ships

technically Jimmy has won two ships.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. I sure wonder if all that pressure from the defense helped.

Pressure always helps. As does elite qb play. But elite qb play can't make a receiver catch the ball

14 points from the offense, 7 of which comes after a fake punt, ain't special.

I'm trying to understand what PM can and can not transcend.

He can't transcend the Lions defense
He can't transcend a non-tier 1 OL
He can't transcend a WR dropping a pass
He cant transcend a pick-6
He can't transcend 1 point

Man, I'm starting to think the only thing PM can transcend is turning 49er fans into closet Chiefs fans.

The OLine is always overlooked. Sad to say. It's the foundation of an offense. Run and Pass. The QB is the head, but the OLine is the neck that allows the head to turn, so to speak.

You get it. There's only 5 left. Even NY abandoned the old crusade in here. I miss him (in here).

Still chaps my hide that we didn't get an OLineman in this years draft, but I trust Foerster's ability and judgement. I"m not asking for first round talent, although I woudn't mind it specially in the next draft (due to Trent Williams age). At least give Foerster 2nd or 3rd round level talent for god's sake. Not UDFA's. Oh well, I think McKivitz will still do well against the Steelers. We shall see.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. I sure wonder if all that pressure from the defense helped.

Pressure always helps. As does elite qb play. But elite qb play can't make a receiver catch the ball

14 points from the offense, 7 of which comes after a fake punt, ain't special.

I'm trying to understand what PM can and can not transcend.

He can't transcend the Lions defense
He can't transcend a non-tier 1 OL
He can't transcend a WR dropping a pass
He cant transcend a pick-6
He can't transcend 1 point

Man, I'm starting to think the only thing PM can transcend is turning 49er fans into closet Chiefs fans.

The OLine is always overlooked. Sad to say. It's the foundation of an offense. Run and Pass. The QB is the head, but the OLine is the neck that allows the head to turn, so to speak.

You get it. There's only 5 left. Even NY abandoned the old crusade in here. I miss him (in here).

Still chaps my hide that we didn't get an OLineman in this years draft, but I trust Foerster's ability and judgement. I"m not asking for first round talent, although I woudn't mind it specially in the next draft (due to Trent Williams age). At least give Foerster 2nd or 3rd round level talent for god's sake. Not UDFA's. Oh well, I think McKivitz will still do well against the Steelers. We shall see.

OL and secondary is all that's left to upgrade.. but at what cost?

Any OL/LT that is worth it will be a high pick and still not a sure thing. Do we trade up?

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
The throw to toney on the last drive would have been analyzed to hell if it were Jimmy.

It was behind toney by 5 degrees and the point of the ball was trending to the left.

i think we all would give jimmy a pass if he had won two ships

technically Jimmy has won two ships.

Jimmy is a good QB, but he just can'd do much when the OLine protection breaks down. Nice thing about Purdy is that he's as accurate and has a quick release like Jimmy AND he can do some things Pat Mahomes can do when the OLine protection breaks down. Jimmy just doesn't have that agile pocket sidestep mobility that Purdy has when there's a Chris Jones comming up the middle. Purdy just has another gear, so to speak, whereas Jimmy's stuck in 2nd gear - from a mobility standpoint.

P.S. I think Purdy would have made the throw to Sanders with his accuracy for a win in that 🏆game.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. I sure wonder if all that pressure from the defense helped.

Pressure always helps. As does elite qb play. But elite qb play can't make a receiver catch the ball

14 points from the offense, 7 of which comes after a fake punt, ain't special.

I'm trying to understand what PM can and can not transcend.

He can't transcend the Lions defense
He can't transcend a non-tier 1 OL
He can't transcend a WR dropping a pass
He cant transcend a pick-6
He can't transcend 1 point

Man, I'm starting to think the only thing PM can transcend is turning 49er fans into closet Chiefs fans.

The OLine is always overlooked. Sad to say. It's the foundation of an offense. Run and Pass. The QB is the head, but the OLine is the neck that allows the head to turn, so to speak.

You get it. There's only 5 left. Even NY abandoned the old crusade in here. I miss him (in here).

Still chaps my hide that we didn't get an OLineman in this years draft, but I trust Foerster's ability and judgement. I"m not asking for first round talent, although I woudn't mind it specially in the next draft (due to Trent Williams age). At least give Foerster 2nd or 3rd round level talent for god's sake. Not UDFA's. Oh well, I think McKivitz will still do well against the Steelers. We shall see.

OL and secondary is all that's left to upgrade.. but at what cost?

Any OL/LT that is worth it will be a high pick and still not a sure thing. Do we trade up?

Well ShanaLynch did what they could in free agency. Prior and Feliciano (they are betting) are as good as maybe 3rd or 4th round picks IMO. That may be one thing that affected their avoidance of a Offensive Line pick in the draft. They have freed up about 20+ million in cap space, so I think there's a option for a blockbuster OLine trade before the trade deadline. But if McKivitz holds up, I think they'll move that cap space to somehow retain Aiyuk next year as well as frontload Bosa's contract.

The Only thing I would have changed in Kyle's draft was the Latu pick. I'd have loved an offensive lineman pick at that spot. Love the draft capital put into the secondary. I'm good with the Kicker pick, I've been complaining about Gould's age for a long time. Now I'm complaining about Trent's age.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
The throw to toney on the last drive would have been analyzed to hell if it were Jimmy.

It was behind toney by 5 degrees and the point of the ball was trending to the left.

i think we all would give jimmy a pass if he had won two ships

technically Jimmy has won two ships.

Jimmy is a good QB, but he just can'd do much when the OLine protection breaks down. Nice thing about Purdy is that he's as accurate and has a quick release like Jimmy AND he can do some things Pat Mahomes can do when the OLine protection breaks down. Jimmy just doesn't have that agile pocket sidestep mobility that Purdy has when there's a Chris Jones comming up the middle. Purdy just has another gear, so to speak, whereas Jimmy's stuck in 2nd gear - from a mobility standpoint.

P.S. I think Purdy would have made the throw to Sanders with his accuracy for a win in that 🏆game.

The issue jimmy has is he plans and plants his wide stance because he already made up his mind where he's going with ball. When that doesn't work the play is dead (no where to run due to wide stance) or he's forcing it.

even when you have the best line, it's not full proof and in big games one snap can change the outcome

Originally posted by Giedi:
Still chaps my hide that we didn't get an OLineman in this years draft, but I trust Foerster's ability and judgement. I"m not asking for first round talent, although I woudn't mind it specially in the next draft (due to Trent Williams age). At least give Foerster 2nd or 3rd round level talent for god's sake. Not UDFA's. Oh well, I think McKivitz will still do well against the Steelers. We shall see.

But it doesn't chap your hide that all we give the db coaches is 3rd round comp pick and later dbs?

Originally posted by NCommand:
I'm trying to understand what PM can and can not transcend.

He can't transcend the Lions defense
He can't transcend a non-tier 1 OL
He can't transcend a WR dropping a pass
He cant transcend a pick-6
He can't transcend 1 point

Man, I'm starting to think the only thing PM can transcend is turning 49er fans into closet Chiefs fans.

Some of us like great qb play. We can tell what it is even when OL play isn't great

Others would rather have average play and continually blame the OL for the average play.

Originally posted by NCommand:
You get it. There's only 5 left. Even NY abandoned the old crusade in here. I miss him (in here).

GateKeeping 101.

Now that we can actually discuss injuries in a thread that's not completely under the lock & key of 1 narrative,... Let's all hope that once the ball kicks off vs. the Steelers, the same goes on here. Looking forward to some legit opinions on how they look vs. them.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
LOL. I sure wonder if all that pressure from the defense helped.

Pressure always helps. As does elite qb play. But elite qb play can't make a receiver catch the ball

14 points from the offense, 7 of which comes after a fake punt, ain't special.

I'm trying to understand what PM can and can not transcend.

He can't transcend the Lions defense
He can't transcend a non-tier 1 OL
He can't transcend a WR dropping a pass
He cant transcend a pick-6
He can't transcend 1 point

Man, I'm starting to think the only thing PM can transcend is turning 49er fans into closet Chiefs fans.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
The throw to toney on the last drive would have been analyzed to hell if it were Jimmy.

It was behind toney by 5 degrees and the point of the ball was trending to the left.

i think we all would give jimmy a pass if he had won two ships

technically Jimmy has won two ships.

Jimmy is a good QB, but he just can'd do much when the OLine protection breaks down. Nice thing about Purdy is that he's as accurate and has a quick release like Jimmy AND he can do some things Pat Mahomes can do when the OLine protection breaks down. Jimmy just doesn't have that agile pocket sidestep mobility that Purdy has when there's a Chris Jones comming up the middle. Purdy just has another gear, so to speak, whereas Jimmy's stuck in 2nd gear - from a mobility standpoint.

P.S. I think Purdy would have made the throw to Sanders with his accuracy for a win in that 🏆game.

The issue jimmy has is he plans and plants his wide stance because he already made up his mind where he's going with ball. When that doesn't work the play is dead (no where to run due to wide stance) or he's forcing it.

even when you have the best line, it's not full proof and in big games one snap can change the outcome

I think Jimmy made up his mind because he was slow in absorbing Kyle's offense. Matt Ryan also had some of the same issues with Kyle and his offense, as being a bit robotic. In the Raider interview, I remember Jimmy saying that McDaniel's offense is more spontaneous and that Jimmy has more power to modify the calls under McDaniel's offense. I think one reason Jimmy wasn't allowed the freedom to ad lib was because I think he didn't understand how Kyle sets up his offense the way Brock does. I think Brock intuitively understands Kyle somehow, and how he thinks and so he's done well in Kyle's offense while it took Jimmy until last year to really be efficient in Kyle's offense.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
The throw to toney on the last drive would have been analyzed to hell if it were Jimmy.

It was behind toney by 5 degrees and the point of the ball was trending to the left.

i think we all would give jimmy a pass if he had won two ships

technically Jimmy has won two ships.

Jimmy is a good QB, but he just can'd do much when the OLine protection breaks down. Nice thing about Purdy is that he's as accurate and has a quick release like Jimmy AND he can do some things Pat Mahomes can do when the OLine protection breaks down. Jimmy just doesn't have that agile pocket sidestep mobility that Purdy has when there's a Chris Jones comming up the middle. Purdy just has another gear, so to speak, whereas Jimmy's stuck in 2nd gear - from a mobility standpoint.

P.S. I think Purdy would have made the throw to Sanders with his accuracy for a win in that 🏆game.

The issue jimmy has is he plans and plants his wide stance because he already made up his mind where he's going with ball. When that doesn't work the play is dead (no where to run due to wide stance) or he's forcing it.

even when you have the best line, it's not full proof and in big games one snap can change the outcome

I think Jimmy made up his mind because he was slow in absorbing Kyle's offense. Matt Ryan also had some of the same issues with Kyle and his offense, as being a bit robotic. In the Raider interview, I remember Jimmy saying that McDaniel's offense is more spontaneous and that Jimmy has more power to modify the calls under McDaniel's offense. I think one reason Jimmy wasn't allowed the freedom to ad lib was because I think he didn't understand how Kyle sets up his offense the way Brock does. I think Brock intuitively understands Kyle somehow, and how he thinks and so he's done well in Kyle's offense while it took Jimmy until last year to really be efficient in Kyle's offense.

i don't think jimmy ever cared to learn the offense or cares at all. he barely could run our offense when there was less responsibility, but somehow he's going to thrive when given more ? lol

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Still chaps my hide that we didn't get an OLineman in this years draft, but I trust Foerster's ability and judgement. I"m not asking for first round talent, although I woudn't mind it specially in the next draft (due to Trent Williams age). At least give Foerster 2nd or 3rd round level talent for god's sake. Not UDFA's. Oh well, I think McKivitz will still do well against the Steelers. We shall see.

But it doesn't chap your hide that all we give the db coaches is 3rd round comp pick and later dbs?

49ers have picked a DLineman with their first pick 4 times in Kyle's 7 year HC career. That's a ton of draft picks devoted to the DLine vs *any other position.* I'm Ok with that if they get good DLinemen but the misfires with Solomon and Kinlaw leave a bad taste for me. I understand their strategy, a strong DLine will help a mediocre DB perform above their talent level. The problem with that is the 49er DB's get exposed in the playoffs if the 49er DLine faces a good OLine that neutralizes their DLine talent. (KC in the Super Bowl for example). I'm glad they have shifted their strategy to have a DB coach who is emphasizing *both* DLine and DB talent - because pass defense is a combination of *both* a good DLine and a good defensive backfield. Not just one or the other.

Last year Kyle was lucky he had Jimmy *and* Purdy on the team so he had good QB depth. This year - the only proven QB is Brock, and he didn't invest in any draft capital in protecting Purdy. That's what chaps my hyde. If Purdy goes down, that's it. Sam isn't Jimmy, in my opinion. I haven't seen anything special about him the way I've seen both Jimmy and Purdy having that specialness about them. I'd have loved to have an OLine pick instead of Latu at pick #101.

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
The throw to toney on the last drive would have been analyzed to hell if it were Jimmy.

It was behind toney by 5 degrees and the point of the ball was trending to the left.

i think we all would give jimmy a pass if he had won two ships

technically Jimmy has won two ships.

Jimmy is a good QB, but he just can'd do much when the OLine protection breaks down. Nice thing about Purdy is that he's as accurate and has a quick release like Jimmy AND he can do some things Pat Mahomes can do when the OLine protection breaks down. Jimmy just doesn't have that agile pocket sidestep mobility that Purdy has when there's a Chris Jones comming up the middle. Purdy just has another gear, so to speak, whereas Jimmy's stuck in 2nd gear - from a mobility standpoint.

P.S. I think Purdy would have made the throw to Sanders with his accuracy for a win in that 🏆game.

The issue jimmy has is he plans and plants his wide stance because he already made up his mind where he's going with ball. When that doesn't work the play is dead (no where to run due to wide stance) or he's forcing it.

even when you have the best line, it's not full proof and in big games one snap can change the outcome

I think Jimmy made up his mind because he was slow in absorbing Kyle's offense. Matt Ryan also had some of the same issues with Kyle and his offense, as being a bit robotic. In the Raider interview, I remember Jimmy saying that McDaniel's offense is more spontaneous and that Jimmy has more power to modify the calls under McDaniel's offense. I think one reason Jimmy wasn't allowed the freedom to ad lib was because I think he didn't understand how Kyle sets up his offense the way Brock does. I think Brock intuitively understands Kyle somehow, and how he thinks and so he's done well in Kyle's offense while it took Jimmy until last year to really be efficient in Kyle's offense.

i don't think jimmy ever cared to learn the offense or cares at all. he barely could run our offense when there was less responsibility, but somehow he's going to thrive when given more ? lol

I think the Kyle offense is a complicated offense to run. I takes time to learn this offense. I think Jimmy cares but it just took him time to learn the offense. His injuries didn't help, same with Trey, that slowed down both their learning of the offense down in my opinion. Trey would have been a good QB in this system, but it would have taken him *years* to get to a point where he can credibly challenge Purdy at Purdy's rookie level. Purdy is so much better in operating this offense vs Jimmy. It's insane that he did that as a rookie. Just insane.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by DRCHOWDER:

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by JoseCortez:
The throw to toney on the last drive would have been analyzed to hell if it were Jimmy.

It was behind toney by 5 degrees and the point of the ball was trending to the left.

i think we all would give jimmy a pass if he had won two ships

technically Jimmy has won two ships.

Jimmy is a good QB, but he just can'd do much when the OLine protection breaks down. Nice thing about Purdy is that he's as accurate and has a quick release like Jimmy AND he can do some things Pat Mahomes can do when the OLine protection breaks down. Jimmy just doesn't have that agile pocket sidestep mobility that Purdy has when there's a Chris Jones comming up the middle. Purdy just has another gear, so to speak, whereas Jimmy's stuck in 2nd gear - from a mobility standpoint.

P.S. I think Purdy would have made the throw to Sanders with his accuracy for a win in that 🏆game.

The issue jimmy has is he plans and plants his wide stance because he already made up his mind where he's going with ball. When that doesn't work the play is dead (no where to run due to wide stance) or he's forcing it.

even when you have the best line, it's not full proof and in big games one snap can change the outcome

I think Jimmy made up his mind because he was slow in absorbing Kyle's offense. Matt Ryan also had some of the same issues with Kyle and his offense, as being a bit robotic. In the Raider interview, I remember Jimmy saying that McDaniel's offense is more spontaneous and that Jimmy has more power to modify the calls under McDaniel's offense. I think one reason Jimmy wasn't allowed the freedom to ad lib was because I think he didn't understand how Kyle sets up his offense the way Brock does. I think Brock intuitively understands Kyle somehow, and how he thinks and so he's done well in Kyle's offense while it took Jimmy until last year to really be efficient in Kyle's offense.

You ain't wrong

This debate has gone on since Bill Walsh....

Timing offense vs read and react.

Before injury Jimmy G had an absolutely ELITE reaction/release. He was beating dudes just on his ability to get the ball out. It was a bit like how i remember Dan Marino just without the fastball.

Walsh wanted people at a certain point on the field at a certain time. As much for RAC blocking as it is to manipulate the defense. So the pass has been pre-determined based on as much as the QB sees as what the system dictates.

You don't win a play by throwing for a first down, but by throwing a first down at this spot at this time.

I have thought Shanny 2.0 wanted a yes man like Joe Montana, but I might really REALLLY be wrong and tying Shanny to the ghost of Bill Walsh way to much.

That is what makes Brock so interesting, Brock is either so embedded in that offense he is at a zen level, or Brock gambles a crap ton and is really lucky.

I love Brock, but I think the dude has some gunslinger in him and has been hella lucky so far.

Bill Walsh would have lost his s**t with as much improv as we have seen from Brock. Those late season Kittle plays were he invented his own routs and some how Brock found him for big chunks....dude Walsh would have been beside himself.

Shanny seemed ecstatic over the plays, and Deebo says players have a ton of input on the offensive gameplan, and Kyle is a lead by commit type... so i guess he can be a tad looser of how his plays are ran. Then we get a quote from Jimmy G that kinda puts that in a shoebox. So i really don't know.