49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No sacks though. They had 70. An NFL record coming in. If you don't close or that pressure doesn't push a QB into danger and/or stupid decisions, it's just a pressure stat. If the QB always has a lane or space to slide, it's just a pressure. Will Mahomes make the most of light pressure? Sure! Is he any different than any other HOF QB under serious duress? Of course not.

Im not sure if you're joking or purposely being obtuse. My point is this: the chiefs oline is not/was not elite. In the biggest game of the year, they allowed nearly 40% pressure rate. That's not good.

The reason those pressures didn't translate into sacks is because.... Of the QB. Mahomes IS elite. Mahomes is decisive with the ball, has a great arm, etc. That is THE ONLY reason the eagles had no sacks because they sure as hell pressured him (a pressure meaning one or more offensive linemen got beat on a play)

If you're leaning on PFF, 35-40% is normal. It's all about how they choose to define their pressures.

The reason those pressures didn't translate into sacks was because they were unthreatening isolated pressures with plenty of blocked space to slide and move and run through. The QB still had to take it and make an off schedule play and PM is certainly special that way.

Now go watch a 9er Superbowl and see if you can see a vast difference in pressure.

Like I said, you're 1 of about 3 people in the world trying to disprove the Eagles and Chiefs had tier 1 OL's. It's a weird hill to die on, honestly. And it's all with an angle the QB-makes-the-OL. Silly.

Unthreatening pressure? And it's because his OLine made the pressure unthreatening?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by Giedi:
If he's so good, then why did he lose the super bowl in 2020? If the OLine is superfulous to the success of the QB? explain Pat and his 2020 loss.

First off, the chiefs literally dropped 3 TD passes. But let's set that aside. My point from the beginning is not that OL is totally and completely meaningless. For example you could trot out 5 people from webzine to block for mahomes and he would die.

My point was the most important thing, by far, is having an elite QB. In other words, if you gave me these 2 options:

A. Elite QB(mahomes) with an average/mediocre line.
B. Elite OL with Dak Prescott/Cousins/etc.

100% of the time I am taking option A and you would be taking option A too (unless you're lying).

Except PM never won with a medicore OL. He's always had tier 1 OL's except for his 1 loss. Irony? No. That's how football generally works...since the dawn of time.

PS: You need both.

Jfc you are doing it again .

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by Giedi:
If he's so good, then why did he lose the super bowl in 2020? If the OLine is superfulous to the success of the QB? explain Pat and his 2020 loss.

First off, the chiefs literally dropped 3 TD passes. But let's set that aside. My point from the beginning is not that OL is totally and completely meaningless. For example you could trot out 5 people from webzine to block for mahomes and he would die.

My point was the most important thing, by far, is having an elite QB. In other words, if you gave me these 2 options:

A. Elite QB(mahomes) with an average/mediocre line.
B. Elite OL with Dak Prescott/Cousins/etc.

100% of the time I am taking option A and you would be taking option A too (unless you're lying).

Elite QB, mediocre line - Loss (2020)
Elite QB, elite line - win ( 2022)
Simple as that.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by Giedi:
If he's so good, then why did he lose the super bowl in 2020? If the OLine is superfulous to the success of the QB? explain Pat and his 2020 loss.

First off, the chiefs literally dropped 3 TD passes. But let's set that aside. My point from the beginning is not that OL is totally and completely meaningless. For example you could trot out 5 people from webzine to block for mahomes and he would die.

My point was the most important thing, by far, is having an elite QB. In other words, if you gave me these 2 options:

A. Elite QB(mahomes) with an average/mediocre line.
B. Elite OL with Dak Prescott/Cousins/etc.

100% of the time I am taking option A and you would be taking option A too (unless you're lying).

Except PM never won with a medicore OL. He's always had tier 1 OL's except for his 1 loss. Irony? No. That's how football generally works...since the dawn of time.

PS: You need both.

Jfc you are doing it again .

Clearly you weren't aware (PFF).

That's the difference. I'm not saying an OL makes a QB. You ARE saying the QB makes the OL. I've always said you need both playing at a tier 1 level.

Stafford with Rams (tier 1 OL)
Brady with Bucs (tier 1 OL)
Mahomes with Cheifs (tier 1 OL x2 = 2 Superbowls)
Mahomes with Chiefs (tier 3 OL = Huge loss)
Garoppolo with 9ers (tier 2 OL = loss)

So our OL is not rated as a tier 1 this year. Neither is the Chiefs.

Do you think either will win a Superbowl? I'll take that bet with each of you!

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by Giedi:
If he's so good, then why did he lose the super bowl in 2020? If the OLine is superfulous to the success of the QB? explain Pat and his 2020 loss.

First off, the chiefs literally dropped 3 TD passes. But let's set that aside. My point from the beginning is not that OL is totally and completely meaningless. For example you could trot out 5 people from webzine to block for mahomes and he would die.

My point was the most important thing, by far, is having an elite QB. In other words, if you gave me these 2 options:

A. Elite QB(mahomes) with an average/mediocre line.
B. Elite OL with Dak Prescott/Cousins/etc.

100% of the time I am taking option A and you would be taking option A too (unless you're lying).

Elite QB, mediocre line - Loss (2020)
Elite QB, elite line - win ( 2022)
Simple as that.

Bingo.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by Giedi:
If he's so good, then why did he lose the super bowl in 2020? If the OLine is superfulous to the success of the QB? explain Pat and his 2020 loss.

First off, the chiefs literally dropped 3 TD passes. But let's set that aside. My point from the beginning is not that OL is totally and completely meaningless. For example you could trot out 5 people from webzine to block for mahomes and he would die.

My point was the most important thing, by far, is having an elite QB. In other words, if you gave me these 2 options:

A. Elite QB(mahomes) with an average/mediocre line.
B. Elite OL with Dak Prescott/Cousins/etc.

100% of the time I am taking option A and you would be taking option A too (unless you're lying).

Except PM never won with a medicore OL. He's always had tier 1 OL's except for his 1 loss. Irony? No. That's how football generally works...since the dawn of time.

PS: You need both.

PM wins with Avg OL. if KC doesn't drop those 3 TDs in the endzone, you would be claiming that their OL was the best.. because that is what you are doing now since they won those other times lol

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by Giedi:
If he's so good, then why did he lose the super bowl in 2020? If the OLine is superfulous to the success of the QB? explain Pat and his 2020 loss.

First off, the chiefs literally dropped 3 TD passes. But let's set that aside. My point from the beginning is not that OL is totally and completely meaningless. For example you could trot out 5 people from webzine to block for mahomes and he would die.

My point was the most important thing, by far, is having an elite QB. In other words, if you gave me these 2 options:

A. Elite QB(mahomes) with an average/mediocre line.
B. Elite OL with Dak Prescott/Cousins/etc.

100% of the time I am taking option A and you would be taking option A too (unless you're lying).

Except PM never won with a medicore OL. He's always had tier 1 OL's except for his 1 loss. Irony? No. That's how football generally works...since the dawn of time.

PS: You need both.

Jfc you are doing it again .

Clearly you weren't aware (PFF).

That's the difference. I'm not saying an OL makes a QB. You ARE saying the QB makes the OL. I've always said you need both playing at a tier 1 level.

Stafford with Rams (tier 1 OL)
Brady with Bucs (tier 1 OL)
Mahomes with Cheifs (tier 1 OL x2 = 2 Superbowls)
Mahomes with Chiefs (tier 3 OL = Huge loss)
Garoppolo with 9ers (tier 2 OL = loss)

So our OL is not rated as a tier 1 this year. Neither is the Chiefs.

Do you think either will win a Superbowl? I'll take that bet with each of you!

I'm clearly aware of you and your propensity to backtrack, move goalposts and scoff at certain metrics when they don't fit, then in the next breath use them when they do fit. That was my point, not the metric itself. The fact you disregarded a high pressure rate and shifted to sacks then shifted back to the pressure rate as normal is next level, even for you 🤣Carry on

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by Giedi:
If he's so good, then why did he lose the super bowl in 2020? If the OLine is superfulous to the success of the QB? explain Pat and his 2020 loss.

First off, the chiefs literally dropped 3 TD passes. But let's set that aside. My point from the beginning is not that OL is totally and completely meaningless. For example you could trot out 5 people from webzine to block for mahomes and he would die.

My point was the most important thing, by far, is having an elite QB. In other words, if you gave me these 2 options:

A. Elite QB(mahomes) with an average/mediocre line.
B. Elite OL with Dak Prescott/Cousins/etc.

100% of the time I am taking option A and you would be taking option A too (unless you're lying).

Except PM never won with a medicore OL. He's always had tier 1 OL's except for his 1 loss. Irony? No. That's how football generally works...since the dawn of time.

PS: You need both.

PM wins with Avg OL. if KC doesn't drop those 3 TDs in the endzone, you would be claiming that their OL was the best.. because that is what you are doing now since they won those other times lol

LOL. He's had 1 and lost. Andy corrected that immediately after that. Then they won again. Andy didn't retain a tier 1 OL this year though.

Wanna guess what happens? Take the bet!

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by Giedi:
If he's so good, then why did he lose the super bowl in 2020? If the OLine is superfulous to the success of the QB? explain Pat and his 2020 loss.

First off, the chiefs literally dropped 3 TD passes. But let's set that aside. My point from the beginning is not that OL is totally and completely meaningless. For example you could trot out 5 people from webzine to block for mahomes and he would die.

My point was the most important thing, by far, is having an elite QB. In other words, if you gave me these 2 options:

A. Elite QB(mahomes) with an average/mediocre line.
B. Elite OL with Dak Prescott/Cousins/etc.

100% of the time I am taking option A and you would be taking option A too (unless you're lying).

Except PM never won with a medicore OL. He's always had tier 1 OL's except for his 1 loss. Irony? No. That's how football generally works...since the dawn of time.

PS: You need both.

PM wins with Avg OL. if KC doesn't drop those 3 TDs in the endzone, you would be claiming that their OL was the best.. because that is what you are doing now since they won those other times lol

Pressure does a lot of things to a QB. Specially in timing offenses like KC and other West Coast Derivative offenses. Disrupt that timing, you disrupt that offense. To a certain extent, a mobile QB can overcome the disruptions by extending the plays - but overcoming turnovers is very difficult. Especially if the pressure causes turnovers.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by Giedi:
If he's so good, then why did he lose the super bowl in 2020? If the OLine is superfulous to the success of the QB? explain Pat and his 2020 loss.

First off, the chiefs literally dropped 3 TD passes. But let's set that aside. My point from the beginning is not that OL is totally and completely meaningless. For example you could trot out 5 people from webzine to block for mahomes and he would die.

My point was the most important thing, by far, is having an elite QB. In other words, if you gave me these 2 options:

A. Elite QB(mahomes) with an average/mediocre line.
B. Elite OL with Dak Prescott/Cousins/etc.

100% of the time I am taking option A and you would be taking option A too (unless you're lying).

Except PM never won with a medicore OL. He's always had tier 1 OL's except for his 1 loss. Irony? No. That's how football generally works...since the dawn of time.

PS: You need both.

Jfc you are doing it again .

Clearly you weren't aware (PFF).

That's the difference. I'm not saying an OL makes a QB. You ARE saying the QB makes the OL. I've always said you need both playing at a tier 1 level.

Stafford with Rams (tier 1 OL)
Brady with Bucs (tier 1 OL)
Mahomes with Cheifs (tier 1 OL x2 = 2 Superbowls)
Mahomes with Chiefs (tier 3 OL = Huge loss)
Garoppolo with 9ers (tier 2 OL = loss)

So our OL is not rated as a tier 1 this year. Neither is the Chiefs.

Do you think either will win a Superbowl? I'll take that bet with each of you!

I'm clearly aware of you and your propensity to backtrack, move goalposts and scoff at certain metrics when they don't fit, then in the next breath use them when they do fit. That was my point, not the metric itself. The fact you disregarded a high pressure rate and shifted to sacks then shifted back to the pressure rate as normal is next level, even for you 🤣Carry on

So take the bet. I defer to the SME's on the tier 1, 2, 3, etc. lines annually and they've ended up spot on in the end. PFF metrics? Cute and fun but typically run on averages and their own definitions without context.

lol now it's tiers. Who's the #1 OL ? Ok looks like PHI. I'll bet you $100 PHI does not win the SB.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
lol now it's tiers. Who's the #1 OL ? Ok looks like PHI. I'll bet you $100 PHI does not win the SB.

take a bet where NC makes up the rules as he goes .. lol

i will always enjoy the hypocrisy of 49ers giving up 0 sacks and our OL sucks due to pressure vs KC's 0 sacks and Pressure and they're number 1

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
lol now it's tiers. Who's the #1 OL ? Ok looks like PHI. I'll bet you $100 PHI does not win the SB.

Brandon Thorn and Establish the Run is all I use annually. OL/DL is ALL they do. They'll reevaluate again at the mid season point and going into the playoffs.

If Hurts plays at the same tier, that's the best odds. There's your odds-on favorite.

The top 2 OL in tier 1 to start the season are the Eagles and Lions. And we know the Lions aren't winning a Superbowl with Goff. LOL. OL can't make the QB either.

PS: ETR has the 9ers DL as tier 1. Cowboys, 9ers, Steelers in tier 1. You probably won't disagree with that, huh? Ha

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
lol now it's tiers. Who's the #1 OL ? Ok looks like PHI. I'll bet you $100 PHI does not win the SB.

take a bet where NC makes up the rules as he goes .. lol

i will always enjoy the hypocrisy of 49ers giving up 0 sacks and our OL sucks due to pressure vs KC's 0 sacks and Pressure and they're number 1

Chicken. I tell you in advance annually and you still deny it. LOL.

Make a prediction yourself then.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
lol now it's tiers. Who's the #1 OL ? Ok looks like PHI. I'll bet you $100 PHI does not win the SB.

Brandon Thorn and Establish the Run is all I use annually. OL/DL is ALL they do. They'll reevaluate again at the mid season point and going into the playoffs.

If Hurts plays at the same tier, that's the best odds. There's your odds-on favorite.

The top 2 OL in tier 1 to start the season are the Eagles and Lions. And we know the Lions aren't winning a Superbowl with Goff. LOL. OL can't make the QB either.

PS: ETR has the 9ers DL as tier 1. Cowboys, 9ers, Steelers in tier 1. You probably won't disagree with that, huh? Ha

Great. So you should have no problem taking that bet I proposed. Deal
also you preach OL, so I'm not interested in your newest QB same tier caveat