49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Now 35-40% pressure rate is normal

9ers pressures allowed against the Rams didn't allow for Jimmy to scramble. KC did allow for Pat. That's what makes 9ers bad Chiefs good. Nothing else is a factor.

Cant you see that's the issue Hoov

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Now 35-40% pressure rate is normal

9ers pressures allowed against the Rams didn't allow for Jimmy to scramble. KC did allow for Pat. That's what makes 9ers bad Chiefs good. Nothing else is a factor.

Cant you see that's the issue Hoov

Clearly

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Now 35-40% pressure rate is normal

9ers pressures allowed against the Rams didn't allow for Jimmy to scramble. KC did allow for Pat. That's what makes 9ers bad Chiefs good. Nothing else is a factor.

Cant you see that's the issue Hoov

Clearly

NC always painting himself into a corner

Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Sacks, hits, pressures all matter if they lead to negative plays esp. when it matters most.

Sacks are a negative play.
Hits can range from moot to negative plays.
Pressures can range from moot to negative plays.

Which is true, depending on what the qb does. Amazing that the better qbs seem to make things moot and the lesser ones dont.

A mobile QB can help and average OLine look good, just as a good RB can make a bad OLine look good. An example would be Barry Sanders behind an average OLine. But look at what happened to Andrew Luck. He retired early because of the numerous injuries suffered behind a subpar OLine. You want that for our franchise QB? What I'm propounding is that Kyle invest more draft capital into the OLine, a LOT more than previously because he now has a young fresh 2nd year QB that looks like a generational talent. I want Purdy to play till he's 45 if he wants to. Key to that is health. Having a good OLIne will help Purdy's health better than a bad OLine. It's a LONG 17 game season, every hit on Brock is a potential danger to his career. Look at what happened last year. One missed block and forget about playing for the #6 🏆

invest how much and what would you give up. you have to pick and choose those battles of building a solid team or waiting/banking on OL to be legit with mediocre skill players

Well, during Andrew Luck's career - the Colts didn't draft *one* offensive lineman in the first round until the last year of his career - and that was too late for Andrew at that point. Now, having said that, and the fact that Kyle's been able to hit on late round picks, what I'd like to happen is for Kyle to take a shot at a generational Offensive line talent, in the first round. A Trent Williams level generational talent, and at the same time - find a Banks and Burford in the lower round picks - to make sure there is good depth. In other words, invest a good chunk of the draft capital in to both Talent and Depth. (the RGIII and Kirk Cousins kind of situation) I think that will go a long way to preserve Brock's career and prevent an Andrew Luck early retirement situation.

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No sacks though. They had 70. An NFL record coming in. If you don't close or that pressure doesn't push a QB into danger and/or stupid decisions, it's just a pressure stat. If the QB always has a lane or space to slide, it's just a pressure. Will Mahomes make the most of light pressure? Sure! Is he any different than any other HOF QB under serious duress? Of course not.

Im not sure if you're joking or purposely being obtuse. My point is this: the chiefs oline is not/was not elite. In the biggest game of the year, they allowed nearly 40% pressure rate. That's not good.

The reason those pressures didn't translate into sacks is because.... Of the QB. Mahomes IS elite. Mahomes is decisive with the ball, has a great arm, etc. That is THE ONLY reason the eagles had no sacks because they sure as hell pressured him (a pressure meaning one or more offensive linemen got beat on a play)

If he's so good, then why did he lose the super bowl in 2020? If the OLine is superfulous to the success of the QB? explain Pat and his 2020 loss.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No sacks though. They had 70. An NFL record coming in. If you don't close or that pressure doesn't push a QB into danger and/or stupid decisions, it's just a pressure stat. If the QB always has a lane or space to slide, it's just a pressure. Will Mahomes make the most of light pressure? Sure! Is he any different than any other HOF QB under serious duress? Of course not.

Im not sure if you're joking or purposely being obtuse. My point is this: the chiefs oline is not/was not elite. In the biggest game of the year, they allowed nearly 40% pressure rate. That's not good.

The reason those pressures didn't translate into sacks is because.... Of the QB. Mahomes IS elite. Mahomes is decisive with the ball, has a great arm, etc. That is THE ONLY reason the eagles had no sacks because they sure as hell pressured him (a pressure meaning one or more offensive linemen got beat on a play)

If he's so good, then why did he lose the super bowl in 2020? If the OLine is superfulous to the success of the QB? explain Pat and his 2020 loss.

We also seem to be completely glossing over that Andy Reid is the best playcaller in the NFL. Philly was getting shredded with motion and just outright looked unprepared to play in the 2nd-half.

Originally posted by grapesofrathman:

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No sacks though. They had 70. An NFL record coming in. If you don't close or that pressure doesn't push a QB into danger and/or stupid decisions, it's just a pressure stat. If the QB always has a lane or space to slide, it's just a pressure. Will Mahomes make the most of light pressure? Sure! Is he any different than any other HOF QB under serious duress? Of course not.

Im not sure if you're joking or purposely being obtuse. My point is this: the chiefs oline is not/was not elite. In the biggest game of the year, they allowed nearly 40% pressure rate. That's not good.

The reason those pressures didn't translate into sacks is because.... Of the QB. Mahomes IS elite. Mahomes is decisive with the ball, has a great arm, etc. That is THE ONLY reason the eagles had no sacks because they sure as hell pressured him (a pressure meaning one or more offensive linemen got beat on a play)

If he's so good, then why did he lose the super bowl in 2020? If the OLine is superfulous to the success of the QB? explain Pat and his 2020 loss.

We also seem to be completely glossing over that Andy Reid is the best playcaller in the NFL. Philly was getting shredded with motion and just outright looked unprepared to play in the 2nd-half.

Well, if the pressure is getting to Mahomes 40% of the time then 60% of the time - he isn't pressured. That's when Mahomes does his damage. John Madden had one of the highest winning percentages in football, and one reason was that he was like Andy, an offensive line coach that built both sides of the trenches. Kyle's done excellent on building the Defensive Line, and what I'd like to see to see is the Offensive line having the same kind of success.

I'm still bummed that Kyle didn't devote any draft picks to the offensive line this year. Feliciano and Pryor are on one year contracts, and if they are any good, they'll either cost a ton to keep or will be gone to greener pastures if they REALLY are good, considering our cap space. I get the Brown and Latu picks, but I don't know about the kicker pick. I'd rather have spent that kicker pick on a OLineman that we can develop and retain for a couple of years.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well, if the pressure is getting to Mahomes 40% of the time then 60% of the time - he isn't pressured. That's when Mahomes does his damage. John Madden had one of the highest winning percentages in football, and one reason was that he was like Andy, an offensive line coach that built both sides of the trenches. Kyle's done excellent on building the Defensive Line, and what I'd like to see to see is the Offensive line having the same kind of success.

I'm still bummed that Kyle didn't devote any draft picks to the offensive line this year. Feliciano and Pryor are on one year contracts, and if they are any good, they'll either cost a ton to keep or will be gone to greener pastures if they REALLY are good, considering our cap space. I get the Brown and Latu picks, but I don't know about the kicker pick. I'd rather have spent that kicker pick on a OLineman that we can develop and retain for a couple of years.

Excellent post!

I'm also especially bummed that no OLine were drafted.

I get the kicker pick but not 2 TE's. And I also thought they could have combined some picks to move up to get a quality OLine guy.

IMO, next draft must be an OLine draft where wed can target at least 2 guys that can come in and play right away.

We'll have a much better picture by the end of the season.

Originally posted by LasVegasWally:

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well, if the pressure is getting to Mahomes 40% of the time then 60% of the time - he isn't pressured. That's when Mahomes does his damage. John Madden had one of the highest winning percentages in football, and one reason was that he was like Andy, an offensive line coach that built both sides of the trenches. Kyle's done excellent on building the Defensive Line, and what I'd like to see to see is the Offensive line having the same kind of success.

I'm still bummed that Kyle didn't devote any draft picks to the offensive line this year. Feliciano and Pryor are on one year contracts, and if they are any good, they'll either cost a ton to keep or will be gone to greener pastures if they REALLY are good, considering our cap space. I get the Brown and Latu picks, but I don't know about the kicker pick. I'd rather have spent that kicker pick on a OLineman that we can develop and retain for a couple of years.

Excellent post!

I'm also especially bummed that no OLine were drafted.

I get the kicker pick but not 2 TE's. And I also thought they could have combined some picks to move up to get a quality OLine guy.

IMO, next draft must be an OLine draft where wed can target at least 2 guys that can come in and play right away.

We'll have a much better picture by the end of the season.

Well the two tight end picks - Kyle's reasoning, as far as I can tell, not mine - is that Kyle didn't feel any of his three third round picks merited an OLine pick. Apparently all the OLinemen he liked went in the first round. Kyle feels that McKivits and Moore are good enough and none of the offensive line draftees would beat them out.

My reasoning is - gosh darn it, if you can do a Brock Purdy in the 7th round, you can do at least a 3rd round pick on an OLineman! Brock was hurt in the NFC championship game and we lost a Superbowl shot because of that injury. Instead he bolstered the tight end spot, (which makes a bit of sense, because Brock really was hurt by a TE missing his block), but still - finding a possible franchise QB and not devoting some draft capital to bolster the Offensive line - long term - is a questionable decision in my mind.

Originally posted by Giedi:
Well, if the pressure is getting to Mahomes 40% of the time then 60% of the time - he isn't pressured. That's when Mahomes does his damage.

Except that Mahomes had a 105 passer rating under pressure. He does a ton of damage under pressure.

Originally posted by Giedi:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by NCommand:
No sacks though. They had 70. An NFL record coming in. If you don't close or that pressure doesn't push a QB into danger and/or stupid decisions, it's just a pressure stat. If the QB always has a lane or space to slide, it's just a pressure. Will Mahomes make the most of light pressure? Sure! Is he any different than any other HOF QB under serious duress? Of course not.

Im not sure if you're joking or purposely being obtuse. My point is this: the chiefs oline is not/was not elite. In the biggest game of the year, they allowed nearly 40% pressure rate. That's not good.

The reason those pressures didn't translate into sacks is because.... Of the QB. Mahomes IS elite. Mahomes is decisive with the ball, has a great arm, etc. That is THE ONLY reason the eagles had no sacks because they sure as hell pressured him (a pressure meaning one or more offensive linemen got beat on a play)

If he's so good, then why did he lose the super bowl in 2020? If the OLine is superfulous to the success of the QB? explain Pat and his 2020 loss.

Oof.

This one side stepped fact completely dismisses their entire sad QB-makes-the-OL act. So sad. We're even using their very own QB against their own stance.

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Now 35-40% pressure rate is normal

It is with PFF in the playoffs. Ask your boy YAC.

Originally posted by Giedi:
If he's so good, then why did he lose the super bowl in 2020? If the OLine is superfulous to the success of the QB? explain Pat and his 2020 loss.

First off, the chiefs literally dropped 3 TD passes. But let's set that aside. My point from the beginning is not that OL is totally and completely meaningless. For example you could trot out 5 people from webzine to block for mahomes and he would die.

My point was the most important thing, by far, is having an elite QB. In other words, if you gave me these 2 options:

A. Elite QB(mahomes) with an average/mediocre line.
B. Elite OL with Dak Prescott/Cousins/etc.

100% of the time I am taking option A and you would be taking option A too (unless you're lying).

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by Giedi:
If he's so good, then why did he lose the super bowl in 2020? If the OLine is superfulous to the success of the QB? explain Pat and his 2020 loss.

First off, the chiefs literally dropped 3 TD passes. But let's set that aside. My point from the beginning is not that OL is totally and completely meaningless. For example you could trot out 5 people from webzine to block for mahomes and he would die.

My point was the most important thing, by far, is having an elite QB. In other words, if you gave me these 2 options:

A. Elite QB(mahomes) with an average/mediocre line.
B. Elite OL with Dak Prescott/Cousins/etc.

100% of the time I am taking option A and you would be taking option A too (unless you're lying).

Except PM never won with a medicore OL. He's always had tier 1 OL's except for his 1 loss. Irony? No. That's how football generally works...since the dawn of time.

PS: You need both.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by Hoovtrain:
Now 35-40% pressure rate is normal

It is with PFF in the playoffs. Ask your boy YAC.

Yeah I'm aware. I was laughing at you now parroting it to support yourself after everything you said about pressure rates 😂