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Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
You are now standing on the no sack claim, you didn't like that stat when it proclaimed towards our OL and how much pressure we endured
stop flip flopping
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by NCommand:You are now standing on the no sack claim, you didn't like that stat when it proclaimed towards our OL and how much pressure we endured
Originally posted by frenchmov:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed. That's a really weak argument to me. Philly, a team with historic pass rush totals playing in inclement weather, suddenly couldn't pass rush?
No. KC's OL, who also played on that field, was >>> than Philly's front 7 AND Mahomes made the most of the breakdowns but also, always had room to move towards unlike we see here often when the entire unit collapses instantly esp. when it matters.
They did pass rush. Mahomes was pressured on nearly 40% of his drop backs lol
No sacks though. They had 70. An NFL record coming in. If you don't close or that pressure doesn't push a QB into danger and/or stupid decisions, it's just a pressure stat. If the QB always has a lane or space to slide, it's just a pressure. Will Mahomes make the most of light pressure? Sure! Is he any different than any other HOF QB under serious duress? Of course not.
stop flip flopping
Originally posted by NCommand:I can't have what both ways, you're the one flip flopping when sacks/pressure matter or don't matter
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by NCommand:You are now standing on the no sack claim, you didn't like that stat when it proclaimed towards our OL and how much pressure we endured
Originally posted by frenchmov:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed. That's a really weak argument to me. Philly, a team with historic pass rush totals playing in inclement weather, suddenly couldn't pass rush?
No. KC's OL, who also played on that field, was >>> than Philly's front 7 AND Mahomes made the most of the breakdowns but also, always had room to move towards unlike we see here often when the entire unit collapses instantly esp. when it matters.
They did pass rush. Mahomes was pressured on nearly 40% of his drop backs lol
No sacks though. They had 70. An NFL record coming in. If you don't close or that pressure doesn't push a QB into danger and/or stupid decisions, it's just a pressure stat. If the QB always has a lane or space to slide, it's just a pressure. Will Mahomes make the most of light pressure? Sure! Is he any different than any other HOF QB under serious duress? Of course not.
stop flip flopping
LMAO.
You can't have it both ways when you try to use PM as your case study for a QB making his OL tier 1.
What happens when you DON'T sack Mahomes? What happens when you only get a pressure? Even with Bosa? In a Superbowl?
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by NCommand:I can't have what both ways, you're the one flip flopping when sacks/pressure matter or don't matter
Originally posted by 49AllTheTime:
Originally posted by NCommand:You are now standing on the no sack claim, you didn't like that stat when it proclaimed towards our OL and how much pressure we endured
Originally posted by frenchmov:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Agreed. That's a really weak argument to me. Philly, a team with historic pass rush totals playing in inclement weather, suddenly couldn't pass rush?
No. KC's OL, who also played on that field, was >>> than Philly's front 7 AND Mahomes made the most of the breakdowns but also, always had room to move towards unlike we see here often when the entire unit collapses instantly esp. when it matters.
They did pass rush. Mahomes was pressured on nearly 40% of his drop backs lol
No sacks though. They had 70. An NFL record coming in. If you don't close or that pressure doesn't push a QB into danger and/or stupid decisions, it's just a pressure stat. If the QB always has a lane or space to slide, it's just a pressure. Will Mahomes make the most of light pressure? Sure! Is he any different than any other HOF QB under serious duress? Of course not.
stop flip flopping
LMAO.
You can't have it both ways when you try to use PM as your case study for a QB making his OL tier 1.
What happens when you DON'T sack Mahomes? What happens when you only get a pressure? Even with Bosa? In a Superbowl?
Originally posted by NCommand:
Sacks, hits, pressures all matter if they lead to negative plays esp. when it matters most.
Sacks are a negative play.
Hits can range from moot to negative plays.
Pressures can range from moot to negative plays.
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Sacks, hits, pressures all matter if they lead to negative plays esp. when it matters most.
Sacks are a negative play.
Hits can range from moot to negative plays.
Pressures can range from moot to negative plays.
Which is true, depending on what the qb does. Amazing that the better qbs seem to make things moot and the lesser ones dont.
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Sacks, hits, pressures all matter if they lead to negative plays esp. when it matters most.
Sacks are a negative play.
Hits can range from moot to negative plays.
Pressures can range from moot to negative plays.
Which is true, depending on what the qb does. Amazing that the better qbs seem to make things moot and the lesser ones dont.
Originally posted by Giedi:invest how much and what would you give up. you have to pick and choose those battles of building a solid team or waiting/banking on OL to be legit with mediocre skill players
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Sacks, hits, pressures all matter if they lead to negative plays esp. when it matters most.
Sacks are a negative play.
Hits can range from moot to negative plays.
Pressures can range from moot to negative plays.
Which is true, depending on what the qb does. Amazing that the better qbs seem to make things moot and the lesser ones dont.
A mobile QB can help and average OLine look good, just as a good RB can make a bad OLine look good. An example would be Barry Sanders behind an average OLine. But look at what happened to Andrew Luck. He retired early because of the numerous injuries suffered behind a subpar OLine. You want that for our franchise QB? What I'm propounding is that Kyle invest more draft capital into the OLine, a LOT more than previously because he now has a young fresh 2nd year QB that looks like a generational talent. I want Purdy to play till he's 45 if he wants to. Key to that is health. Having a good OLIne will help Purdy's health better than a bad OLine. It's a LONG 17 game season, every hit on Brock is a potential danger to his career. Look at what happened last year. One missed block and forget about playing for the #6 🏆
Originally posted by NCommand:
No sacks though. They had 70. An NFL record coming in. If you don't close or that pressure doesn't push a QB into danger and/or stupid decisions, it's just a pressure stat. If the QB always has a lane or space to slide, it's just a pressure. Will Mahomes make the most of light pressure? Sure! Is he any different than any other HOF QB under serious duress? Of course not.
Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Sacks, hits, pressures all matter if they lead to negative plays esp. when it matters most.
Sacks are a negative play.
Hits can range from moot to negative plays.
Pressures can range from moot to negative plays.
Which is true, depending on what the qb does. Amazing that the better qbs seem to make things moot and the lesser ones dont.
Originally posted by frenchmov:
Originally posted by NCommand:
No sacks though. They had 70. An NFL record coming in. If you don't close or that pressure doesn't push a QB into danger and/or stupid decisions, it's just a pressure stat. If the QB always has a lane or space to slide, it's just a pressure. Will Mahomes make the most of light pressure? Sure! Is he any different than any other HOF QB under serious duress? Of course not.
Im not sure if you're joking or purposely being obtuse. My point is this: the chiefs oline is not/was not elite. In the biggest game of the year, they allowed nearly 40% pressure rate. That's not good.
The reason those pressures didn't translate into sacks is because.... Of the QB. Mahomes IS elite. Mahomes is decisive with the ball, has a great arm, etc. That is THE ONLY reason the eagles had no sacks because they sure as hell pressured him (a pressure meaning one or more offensive linemen got beat on a play)
Originally posted by NCommand:
If you're leaning on PFF, 35-40% is normal. It's all about how they choose to define their pressures.
The reason those pressures didn't translate into sacks was because they were unthreatening isolated pressures with plenty of blocked space to slide and move and run through. The QB still had to take it and make an off schedule play and PM is certainly special that way.
Now go watch a 9er Superbowl and see if you can see a vast difference in pressure.
Like I said, you're 1 of about 3 people in the world trying to disprove the Eagles and Chiefs had tier 1 OL's. It's a weird hill to die on, honestly. And it's all with an angle the QB-makes-the-OL. Silly.
Originally posted by NCommand:
That's assuming the QB 'can' do something. That's the point. That's where sacks, hits and pressures affect him. PM has proven he's no different than any other QB when he's running for his life, taking hits, and sacks on a regular basis. But he's also incredibly special WHEN there is space to move to.
The difference to which you think a QB can control everything in front of him and still make a play is far smaller than the Madden generation thinks.
Originally posted by frenchmov:
You're presenting they have an elite line by whatever metric. The reason their metrics are that good is because of the QB. "Yeah their ol literally got beat but it was the good kind of pressure, not the bad kind!" Lol
Anyways, beyond the metrics, I watched all the chiefs playoff games. They were absolutely not elite and had a lot of trouble. They nearly got mahomes' leg broken as well. It's difficult to admit but there is one reason and one reason only that the chiefs have won 2 sbs: mahomes.
Keep our entire teams the same, but switch out mahomes for whoever our QB was. Niners probably win 3 straight titles. That tells you all you need to know about your OL theory
