49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by lamontb:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
There are 11 teams on this list because pff had LV and KC tied for 9th.



I can do another list based on pressure% if you all would like? But we have to stop basing our o line play on QB injuries as sacks do not equal injury. We also have to stop judging our o line based on the "eye test" unless of course you watch every snap of every offense every week during the NFL season. Otherwise you are judging them in a vacuum and not against their peers.

With that said, this would be the rankings based on sack%.

1) TB
2) KC
3) JAX
4) GB
5) LV
6) SF
7) CAR
8) PHI
9) BAL
10) CLE
11) ATL

For those who say all you need is an elite QB and the #1 o line and pass rush isn't as important. The GOAT with the #1 PBLK o line lost in the WC round to the #2 ranked pass rush.

I think you need elite play by both through the playoffs. Obviously that helps more if you already have the talent to hit that level when it matters. But we've seen less talented QB's and OL's get hot and win it all too.

It would be ideal to have all 3, no doubt. But that's very rare. And over the past 10 years, it seems the best combo is high end QB + OL > any other combo.

When you've got the talent, as we've seen personally, you have the ability to turn it on when it matters most. Unfortunately we were the opposite of that.

I don't think anybody would confuse our pass rush and unit PP playing at an elite level through the playoffs. How could they when you look at the injuries and talent level starting those games? That's why this is still a hot topic after 7 years.

We saw last night the differences in pressure. When we collapse in unit PP it's the entire unit and usually immediately given our QB no shot whatsoever. Well, no realistic shot anyhow.

Now, if we can get that kind of pressure on a consistent basis from our front 7, that's going to be critical to actually winning a Superbowl, IMHO. Hell like you said, if we get 2 out of the 3, you can pencil us in for #6 right now.

That means a lot is going to come down to Drake Jackson (or whomever) and Colton McKivitz and injuries/depth. How do you feel about our chances there?

I think looking at playoff rankings is a bit skewed. I stated in a previous post the pass rushes that KC and PHI faced during the playoffs. Would either o line have been ranked nearly as high if they faced the pass rushes that the 49ers faced in the playoffs? The answer is I highly doubt it. Would the 49ers pass rush have been more affective against the eagles o line if they weren't forced to play 37 minutes of the game? I would argue that it would have. Imo, If the 49ers o line would have faced the pass rushes that the eagles and chiefs faced in the playoffs and the eagles/chiefs faced the pass rushes that the 49ers faced, the 49ers o line would have been ranked higher than those two in playoff rankings.

I fully agree. Your draw is very important in a small sample size of playoff games against the best competition. It's best to look at the full picture as best you can. Analytics can help. Leaning on the SME's. Putting it altogether.

I personally don't think the talent level we brought to the fight was Championship caliber compared to those who won and set the standard. The teams that won prioritized that standard where Kyle is still trying to coach around it to build up the roster elsewhere.

It doesn't mean we can't win one that way but it's not exactly giving you the best odds, IMHO.

We lost the NFCCG because of a freak injury that put us in a deep whole we were never going to be able to climb out of. That freak injury had zero to do with the o line.

Take your pick in any year. The OL has struggled staying healthy esp. heading into the playoffs. That's why I always say THIS team needs to be at least 7 deep in talent. Those resources have gone to the DL instead.

Which one of our o lineman were injured in the 2022 playoffs?

Last year was our first healthy year! I think that youth movement helped for sure. Hopefully that continues but I wouldn't count on it. We know Trent Williams will miss games annually. It's just a matter of when. 17 games. Deeper playoff runs. A lot is asked of these guys. Injuries are going to happen. They've already happened this off season...nothing too big though, fortunately.

I think your expectations for the o line as far as depth do not fit in line with the rest of the NFL. I bet every single team in the NFL wish they had starters waiting on the bench to fill in when needed. The reality is that there just aren't enough quality o lineman for teams to have an excess of them. Not like there are with DL. We are constantly bringing in ex 1st rounders on the D line. We get above average production out of them and they go get paid somewhere else. That is not possible with O lineman in the modern NFL.

As far as injuries. Take any o line out there and replace two of their starters with backups and that o line's efficiency will fall off and are most likely not winning a SB.

Perhaps in hindsight, we could have invested more 1st round picks on the o line. We could have used the 3x 1st's we used on Trey to draft all o lineman. But I can understand the decision to draft a QB early in the first round. Its not often a talented roster/top 5 coaching staff has the opportunity to pick in the top 5.

However, we bring in a new wave of o lineman every off season whether through the draft (Banks and Burford), through free agency (Brendel) or trade (Williams). We keep the best of each crop. Our 3 interior o linemam played a significant role in our top 5 pass blocking unit last season. Demonstrated by the efficiency stats I provided earlier this morning. The run blocking didn't rank as high as the pass blocking last season. At least not until we acquired CMC anyway. So who is to say that the lesser ranking in run blocking wasn't due to the RB's more than the o line?

Much of the concern in August 2022 revolved around the ??? marks surrounding the interior line. While they were up and down throughout the season, I never once thought the lows were all that low. But the highs were enough to make them a top 10 unit. As far as I am concerned with this season is the ? mark around McKivitz. Could he be any worse than McGlinchey in pass pro? If McKivitz plays at or above McGlinchey's 2022 level this season, I have a hard time seeing this o line taking a step back.

Kind of. Many teams like the Eagles continue to add to their talent pool (like we do for the DL) no matter what so that when a guy goes down or moves on, it's next 'talented' man up. When ours went down we had Moore, McKivitz, Compton, Garland, Person, etc. That's fine for a game or two but these guys are getting curb stomped in the playoffs when it matters most.

How would you feel about our Superbowl chances this year if instead of adding Hargraves to a #1 defense, we added Orlando Brown to this current OL?

and we wonder why in the clutch moments Aaron Donald and Chris Jones totally dominated our o line.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
There are 11 teams on this list because pff had LV and KC tied for 9th.



I can do another list based on pressure% if you all would like? But we have to stop basing our o line play on QB injuries as sacks do not equal injury. We also have to stop judging our o line based on the "eye test" unless of course you watch every snap of every offense every week during the NFL season. Otherwise you are judging them in a vacuum and not against their peers.

With that said, this would be the rankings based on sack%.

1) TB
2) KC
3) JAX
4) GB
5) LV
6) SF
7) CAR
8) PHI
9) BAL
10) CLE
11) ATL

For those who say all you need is an elite QB and the #1 o line and pass rush isn't as important. The GOAT with the #1 PBLK o line lost in the WC round to the #2 ranked pass rush.

I think you need elite play by both through the playoffs. Obviously that helps more if you already have the talent to hit that level when it matters. But we've seen less talented QB's and OL's get hot and win it all too.

It would be ideal to have all 3, no doubt. But that's very rare. And over the past 10 years, it seems the best combo is high end QB + OL > any other combo.

When you've got the talent, as we've seen personally, you have the ability to turn it on when it matters most. Unfortunately we were the opposite of that.

I don't think anybody would confuse our pass rush and unit PP playing at an elite level through the playoffs. How could they when you look at the injuries and talent level starting those games? That's why this is still a hot topic after 7 years.

We saw last night the differences in pressure. When we collapse in unit PP it's the entire unit and usually immediately given our QB no shot whatsoever. Well, no realistic shot anyhow.

Now, if we can get that kind of pressure on a consistent basis from our front 7, that's going to be critical to actually winning a Superbowl, IMHO. Hell like you said, if we get 2 out of the 3, you can pencil us in for #6 right now.

That means a lot is going to come down to Drake Jackson (or whomever) and Colton McKivitz and injuries/depth. How do you feel about our chances there?

I think looking at playoff rankings is a bit skewed. I stated in a previous post the pass rushes that KC and PHI faced during the playoffs. Would either o line have been ranked nearly as high if they faced the pass rushes that the 49ers faced in the playoffs? The answer is I highly doubt it. Would the 49ers pass rush have been more affective against the eagles o line if they weren't forced to play 37 minutes of the game? I would argue that it would have. Imo, If the 49ers o line would have faced the pass rushes that the eagles and chiefs faced in the playoffs and the eagles/chiefs faced the pass rushes that the 49ers faced, the 49ers o line would have been ranked higher than those two in playoff rankings.

I fully agree. Your draw is very important in a small sample size of playoff games against the best competition. It's best to look at the full picture as best you can. Analytics can help. Leaning on the SME's. Putting it altogether.

I personally don't think the talent level we brought to the fight was Championship caliber compared to those who won and set the standard. The teams that won prioritized that standard where Kyle is still trying to coach around it to build up the roster elsewhere.

It doesn't mean we can't win one that way but it's not exactly giving you the best odds, IMHO.

We lost the NFCCG because of a freak injury that put us in a deep whole we were never going to be able to climb out of. That freak injury had zero to do with the o line.

Take your pick in any year. The OL has struggled staying healthy esp. heading into the playoffs. That's why I always say THIS team needs to be at least 7 deep in talent. Those resources have gone to the DL instead.

Which one of our o lineman were injured in the 2022 playoffs?

Last year was our first healthy year! I think that youth movement helped for sure. Hopefully that continues but I wouldn't count on it. We know Trent Williams will miss games annually. It's just a matter of when. 17 games. Deeper playoff runs. A lot is asked of these guys. Injuries are going to happen. They've already happened this off season...nothing too big though, fortunately.

I think your expectations for the o line as far as depth do not fit in line with the rest of the NFL. I bet every single team in the NFL wish they had starters waiting on the bench to fill in when needed. The reality is that there just aren't enough quality o lineman for teams to have an excess of them. Not like there are with DL. We are constantly bringing in ex 1st rounders on the D line. We get above average production out of them and they go get paid somewhere else. That is not possible with O lineman in the modern NFL.

As far as injuries. Take any o line out there and replace two of their starters with backups and that o line's efficiency will fall off and are most likely not winning a SB.

Perhaps in hindsight, we could have invested more 1st round picks on the o line. We could have used the 3x 1st's we used on Trey to draft all o lineman. But I can understand the decision to draft a QB early in the first round. Its not often a talented roster/top 5 coaching staff has the opportunity to pick in the top 5.

However, we bring in a new wave of o lineman every off season whether through the draft (Banks and Burford), through free agency (Brendel) or trade (Williams). We keep the best of each crop. Our 3 interior o linemam played a significant role in our top 5 pass blocking unit last season. Demonstrated by the efficiency stats I provided earlier this morning. The run blocking didn't rank as high as the pass blocking last season. At least not until we acquired CMC anyway. So who is to say that the lesser ranking in run blocking wasn't due to the RB's more than the o line?

Much of the concern in August 2022 revolved around the ??? marks surrounding the interior line. While they were up and down throughout the season, I never once thought the lows were all that low. But the highs were enough to make them a top 10 unit. As far as I am concerned with this season is the ? mark around McKivitz. Could he be any worse than McGlinchey in pass pro? If McKivitz plays at or above McGlinchey's 2022 level this season, I have a hard time seeing this o line taking a step back.

Kind of. Many teams like the Eagles continue to add to their talent pool (like we do for the DL) no matter what so that when a guy goes down or moves on, it's next 'talented' man up. When ours went down we had Moore, McKivitz, Compton, Garland, Person, etc. That's fine for a game or two but these guys are getting curb stomped in the playoffs when it matters most.

How would you feel about our Superbowl chances this year if instead of adding Hargraves to a #1 defense, we added Orlando Brown to this current OL?

I guess you don't remember the eagles losing Lane Johnson in a week 16 loss to DAL and giving up 9 sacks in the last two games to end the season? 🤣

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
There are 11 teams on this list because pff had LV and KC tied for 9th.



I can do another list based on pressure% if you all would like? But we have to stop basing our o line play on QB injuries as sacks do not equal injury. We also have to stop judging our o line based on the "eye test" unless of course you watch every snap of every offense every week during the NFL season. Otherwise you are judging them in a vacuum and not against their peers.

With that said, this would be the rankings based on sack%.

1) TB
2) KC
3) JAX
4) GB
5) LV
6) SF
7) CAR
8) PHI
9) BAL
10) CLE
11) ATL

For those who say all you need is an elite QB and the #1 o line and pass rush isn't as important. The GOAT with the #1 PBLK o line lost in the WC round to the #2 ranked pass rush.

I think you need elite play by both through the playoffs. Obviously that helps more if you already have the talent to hit that level when it matters. But we've seen less talented QB's and OL's get hot and win it all too.

It would be ideal to have all 3, no doubt. But that's very rare. And over the past 10 years, it seems the best combo is high end QB + OL > any other combo.

When you've got the talent, as we've seen personally, you have the ability to turn it on when it matters most. Unfortunately we were the opposite of that.

I don't think anybody would confuse our pass rush and unit PP playing at an elite level through the playoffs. How could they when you look at the injuries and talent level starting those games? That's why this is still a hot topic after 7 years.

We saw last night the differences in pressure. When we collapse in unit PP it's the entire unit and usually immediately given our QB no shot whatsoever. Well, no realistic shot anyhow.

Now, if we can get that kind of pressure on a consistent basis from our front 7, that's going to be critical to actually winning a Superbowl, IMHO. Hell like you said, if we get 2 out of the 3, you can pencil us in for #6 right now.

That means a lot is going to come down to Drake Jackson (or whomever) and Colton McKivitz and injuries/depth. How do you feel about our chances there?

I think looking at playoff rankings is a bit skewed. I stated in a previous post the pass rushes that KC and PHI faced during the playoffs. Would either o line have been ranked nearly as high if they faced the pass rushes that the 49ers faced in the playoffs? The answer is I highly doubt it. Would the 49ers pass rush have been more affective against the eagles o line if they weren't forced to play 37 minutes of the game? I would argue that it would have. Imo, If the 49ers o line would have faced the pass rushes that the eagles and chiefs faced in the playoffs and the eagles/chiefs faced the pass rushes that the 49ers faced, the 49ers o line would have been ranked higher than those two in playoff rankings.

I fully agree. Your draw is very important in a small sample size of playoff games against the best competition. It's best to look at the full picture as best you can. Analytics can help. Leaning on the SME's. Putting it altogether.

I personally don't think the talent level we brought to the fight was Championship caliber compared to those who won and set the standard. The teams that won prioritized that standard where Kyle is still trying to coach around it to build up the roster elsewhere.

It doesn't mean we can't win one that way but it's not exactly giving you the best odds, IMHO.

We lost the NFCCG because of a freak injury that put us in a deep whole we were never going to be able to climb out of. That freak injury had zero to do with the o line.

Take your pick in any year. The OL has struggled staying healthy esp. heading into the playoffs. That's why I always say THIS team needs to be at least 7 deep in talent. Those resources have gone to the DL instead.

Which one of our o lineman were injured in the 2022 playoffs?

Last year was our first healthy year! I think that youth movement helped for sure. Hopefully that continues but I wouldn't count on it. We know Trent Williams will miss games annually. It's just a matter of when. 17 games. Deeper playoff runs. A lot is asked of these guys. Injuries are going to happen. They've already happened this off season...nothing too big though, fortunately.

I think your expectations for the o line as far as depth do not fit in line with the rest of the NFL. I bet every single team in the NFL wish they had starters waiting on the bench to fill in when needed. The reality is that there just aren't enough quality o lineman for teams to have an excess of them. Not like there are with DL. We are constantly bringing in ex 1st rounders on the D line. We get above average production out of them and they go get paid somewhere else. That is not possible with O lineman in the modern NFL.

As far as injuries. Take any o line out there and replace two of their starters with backups and that o line's efficiency will fall off and are most likely not winning a SB.

Perhaps in hindsight, we could have invested more 1st round picks on the o line. We could have used the 3x 1st's we used on Trey to draft all o lineman. But I can understand the decision to draft a QB early in the first round. Its not often a talented roster/top 5 coaching staff has the opportunity to pick in the top 5.

However, we bring in a new wave of o lineman every off season whether through the draft (Banks and Burford), through free agency (Brendel) or trade (Williams). We keep the best of each crop. Our 3 interior o linemam played a significant role in our top 5 pass blocking unit last season. Demonstrated by the efficiency stats I provided earlier this morning. The run blocking didn't rank as high as the pass blocking last season. At least not until we acquired CMC anyway. So who is to say that the lesser ranking in run blocking wasn't due to the RB's more than the o line?

Much of the concern in August 2022 revolved around the ??? marks surrounding the interior line. While they were up and down throughout the season, I never once thought the lows were all that low. But the highs were enough to make them a top 10 unit. As far as I am concerned with this season is the ? mark around McKivitz. Could he be any worse than McGlinchey in pass pro? If McKivitz plays at or above McGlinchey's 2022 level this season, I have a hard time seeing this o line taking a step back.

Kind of. Many teams like the Eagles continue to add to their talent pool (like we do for the DL) no matter what so that when a guy goes down or moves on, it's next 'talented' man up. When ours went down we had Moore, McKivitz, Compton, Garland, Person, etc. That's fine for a game or two but these guys are getting curb stomped in the playoffs when it matters most.

How would you feel about our Superbowl chances this year if instead of adding Hargraves to a #1 defense, we added Orlando Brown to this current OL?

I guess you don't remember the eagles losing Lane Johnson in a week 16 loss to DAL and giving up 9 sacks in the last two games to end the season? 🤣

Haha. I guess the Eagles should have gone the Tom Compton route instead.

I rewatched a chunk of plays from the first half, and to me, the person who stands out the most—for all the wrong reasons—is Zakelj. He repeatedly got bullied. Doesn't appear strong enough to hold his own.

Originally posted by BYisGod:
I rewatched a chunk of plays from the first half, and to me, the person who stands out the most—for all the wrong reasons—is Zakelj. He repeatedly got bullied. Doesn't appear strong enough to hold his own.

Matt Pryor #75 looked lost out there at RT.

I hope we need draft the Offensive Lines and need help to protect our quarterback!

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
There are 11 teams on this list because pff had LV and KC tied for 9th.



I can do another list based on pressure% if you all would like? But we have to stop basing our o line play on QB injuries as sacks do not equal injury. We also have to stop judging our o line based on the "eye test" unless of course you watch every snap of every offense every week during the NFL season. Otherwise you are judging them in a vacuum and not against their peers.

With that said, this would be the rankings based on sack%.

1) TB
2) KC
3) JAX
4) GB
5) LV
6) SF
7) CAR
8) PHI
9) BAL
10) CLE
11) ATL

For those who say all you need is an elite QB and the #1 o line and pass rush isn't as important. The GOAT with the #1 PBLK o line lost in the WC round to the #2 ranked pass rush.

I think you need elite play by both through the playoffs. Obviously that helps more if you already have the talent to hit that level when it matters. But we've seen less talented QB's and OL's get hot and win it all too.

It would be ideal to have all 3, no doubt. But that's very rare. And over the past 10 years, it seems the best combo is high end QB + OL > any other combo.

When you've got the talent, as we've seen personally, you have the ability to turn it on when it matters most. Unfortunately we were the opposite of that.

I don't think anybody would confuse our pass rush and unit PP playing at an elite level through the playoffs. How could they when you look at the injuries and talent level starting those games? That's why this is still a hot topic after 7 years.

We saw last night the differences in pressure. When we collapse in unit PP it's the entire unit and usually immediately given our QB no shot whatsoever. Well, no realistic shot anyhow.

Now, if we can get that kind of pressure on a consistent basis from our front 7, that's going to be critical to actually winning a Superbowl, IMHO. Hell like you said, if we get 2 out of the 3, you can pencil us in for #6 right now.

That means a lot is going to come down to Drake Jackson (or whomever) and Colton McKivitz and injuries/depth. How do you feel about our chances there?

I think looking at playoff rankings is a bit skewed. I stated in a previous post the pass rushes that KC and PHI faced during the playoffs. Would either o line have been ranked nearly as high if they faced the pass rushes that the 49ers faced in the playoffs? The answer is I highly doubt it. Would the 49ers pass rush have been more affective against the eagles o line if they weren't forced to play 37 minutes of the game? I would argue that it would have. Imo, If the 49ers o line would have faced the pass rushes that the eagles and chiefs faced in the playoffs and the eagles/chiefs faced the pass rushes that the 49ers faced, the 49ers o line would have been ranked higher than those two in playoff rankings.

I fully agree. Your draw is very important in a small sample size of playoff games against the best competition. It's best to look at the full picture as best you can. Analytics can help. Leaning on the SME's. Putting it altogether.

I personally don't think the talent level we brought to the fight was Championship caliber compared to those who won and set the standard. The teams that won prioritized that standard where Kyle is still trying to coach around it to build up the roster elsewhere.

It doesn't mean we can't win one that way but it's not exactly giving you the best odds, IMHO.

We lost the NFCCG because of a freak injury that put us in a deep whole we were never going to be able to climb out of. That freak injury had zero to do with the o line.

Take your pick in any year. The OL has struggled staying healthy esp. heading into the playoffs. That's why I always say THIS team needs to be at least 7 deep in talent. Those resources have gone to the DL instead.

Which one of our o lineman were injured in the 2022 playoffs?

Last year was our first healthy year! I think that youth movement helped for sure. Hopefully that continues but I wouldn't count on it. We know Trent Williams will miss games annually. It's just a matter of when. 17 games. Deeper playoff runs. A lot is asked of these guys. Injuries are going to happen. They've already happened this off season...nothing too big though, fortunately.

I think your expectations for the o line as far as depth do not fit in line with the rest of the NFL. I bet every single team in the NFL wish they had starters waiting on the bench to fill in when needed. The reality is that there just aren't enough quality o lineman for teams to have an excess of them. Not like there are with DL. We are constantly bringing in ex 1st rounders on the D line. We get above average production out of them and they go get paid somewhere else. That is not possible with O lineman in the modern NFL.

As far as injuries. Take any o line out there and replace two of their starters with backups and that o line's efficiency will fall off and are most likely not winning a SB.

Perhaps in hindsight, we could have invested more 1st round picks on the o line. We could have used the 3x 1st's we used on Trey to draft all o lineman. But I can understand the decision to draft a QB early in the first round. Its not often a talented roster/top 5 coaching staff has the opportunity to pick in the top 5.

However, we bring in a new wave of o lineman every off season whether through the draft (Banks and Burford), through free agency (Brendel) or trade (Williams). We keep the best of each crop. Our 3 interior o linemam played a significant role in our top 5 pass blocking unit last season. Demonstrated by the efficiency stats I provided earlier this morning. The run blocking didn't rank as high as the pass blocking last season. At least not until we acquired CMC anyway. So who is to say that the lesser ranking in run blocking wasn't due to the RB's more than the o line?

Much of the concern in August 2022 revolved around the ??? marks surrounding the interior line. While they were up and down throughout the season, I never once thought the lows were all that low. But the highs were enough to make them a top 10 unit. As far as I am concerned with this season is the ? mark around McKivitz. Could he be any worse than McGlinchey in pass pro? If McKivitz plays at or above McGlinchey's 2022 level this season, I have a hard time seeing this o line taking a step back.

Kind of. Many teams like the Eagles continue to add to their talent pool (like we do for the DL) no matter what so that when a guy goes down or moves on, it's next 'talented' man up. When ours went down we had Moore, McKivitz, Compton, Garland, Person, etc. That's fine for a game or two but these guys are getting curb stomped in the playoffs when it matters most.

How would you feel about our Superbowl chances this year if instead of adding Hargraves to a #1 defense, we added Orlando Brown to this current OL?

I guess you don't remember the eagles losing Lane Johnson in a week 16 loss to DAL and giving up 9 sacks in the last two games to end the season? 🤣

Haha. I guess the Eagles should have gone the Tom Compton route instead.

Or you just have to hope your depth holds up when you lose one of your starters just like everyone else.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by9 YACBros85:
The chiefs O line was not neck and neck with the eagles O line. They were top 10 but they were not #2 pushing for #1. So please stop with the overexaggeration.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Context matters. Chiefs O line much like the eagles O line faced the #6 and #17 pass rush to get to the SB. Where would those O line's have been ranked in the playoffs had they faced the #1 and #2 pass rushes?

With all due respect, I'm focusing on the subject matter experts for the entire year on the topic and not PFF. They were elite. I'm not sure how this is even a debate.

So there was only one elite OL (one BT noted as well) all last year?

I understand the desire to believe a QB transcended the OL these days but it's funny how nobody is saying that about Hurts and Philly's OL.

Trying to claim Philly as the only elite OL last year is the real overeggageration, IMHO.

With all due respect. All that you sited when I asked for a source was a 2022 pre season ranking. You are going to have to provide a better source if we are to take you seriously on your rankings. You know exactly where I get my info from and it contradicts your bold statements about KC's O line.

Top 10 pass blocking O lines last season in order from 1-10 were PHI, BAL, GB, TB, SF, KC, CLE, ATL, LV, with JAX & CAR tied at 10th.

I never made a statement about Hurts and how he does or doesn't help the eagles O line. But if the eagles and the chiefs O lines are equal than Hurts makes his O line look better than Mahomes does with his O line.

The eagles were the cream of the crop last season and were better pass blocker's than KC by about 11.3 grading points.

That wasn't a pre season ranking. That's his assessment of the best lines going into the regular season. He had KC as #2.

Mid season he had them at #3.

https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2022-midseason-o-line-rankings/

Going into the playoffs, I can't find his link anymore but it was #1 & #2 again.

Look who's NOT in his top 2 this year going into the 2023 season:

https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2023-offensive-line-rankings/

The Eagles are a team that heavily believes in building up both lines. It's not surprising they're still ranked #1.

It was posted in August of 2022, wasn't it? That was before any meaningful games were even played.

Where is the source for end of season rankings? Mid season doesn't mean much and 2023 preview doesn't necessarily either. Even so, I couldn't read beyond the Lions because I don't have a subscription. So where were the chiefs ranked on that list for the up coming 2023 season?

You don't have too as we were looking at his top tier (i.e. elite). These aren't metric-driven rankings like some of the very odd PFF rankings we see in pre season every year. These are rankings based on SME's as individual OL play and as units. Once the draft and free agency is over, they review the expected OL starters and units and ranks accordingly going into the season. The Chiefs are NOT ranked as an elite 2023 OL this year. They lost key talent from their elite unit last year. That's exactly my point.

They are assessed on every snap and then reevaluated in rankings mid season and going into the playoffs. That's why it's a paid site. A lot of work goes into it. It's like the Greg Cossell of OL but the lines are ALL they study. They understand the nuances of OL play.

Patrick Mahomes knows what's up. 1:00

I don't even look at their pre season stuff. Nor did I even mention pff's pre season rankings on here. So that is odd that you brought that up as a point to argue. I just provided their end of the season rankings. You know after the fact. So where is KC's line ranked on the 2023 preview?

Gotcha. I was just using the PFF position pre season rankings as an example vs. this approach.

I have no idea as it's a pay site. And I don't pay for pay sites. LOL. But that one would be worth it. But often times you can find out via Twitter/X in his threads from fans asking questions on his rankings. If I find them (and us), I'll post here.

Also, I won't be able to see the pre season game tonight until later so let me know what you think including the backups.

You don't even have a subscription but you source that as a site to back up your claims? 🤣

What I did gather from the site is that KC isn't #1. They aren't even projected to be #2.

I probably won't be focusing on just the O line today. But I do have NFL+ so I will certainly be going over the game a few times to focus on certain position groups.

I source and follow BT. The subscription is for full site rankings and other OL vs. DL weekly matchups, etc. More for FF. There is plenty of free info out there from him and the others. I referenced all you needed.

Yup, #2 last year and they certainly aren't in that elite tier ranking this year. So will PM transcend a non-elite OL this year? I'll take that bet!

Same!

I'll take that bet with you NC. If we can short PM due to his Oline regression I'd short it.

Originally posted by bassmanr:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by9 YACBros85:
The chiefs O line was not neck and neck with the eagles O line. They were top 10 but they were not #2 pushing for #1. So please stop with the overexaggeration.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Context matters. Chiefs O line much like the eagles O line faced the #6 and #17 pass rush to get to the SB. Where would those O line's have been ranked in the playoffs had they faced the #1 and #2 pass rushes?

With all due respect, I'm focusing on the subject matter experts for the entire year on the topic and not PFF. They were elite. I'm not sure how this is even a debate.

So there was only one elite OL (one BT noted as well) all last year?

I understand the desire to believe a QB transcended the OL these days but it's funny how nobody is saying that about Hurts and Philly's OL.

Trying to claim Philly as the only elite OL last year is the real overeggageration, IMHO.

With all due respect. All that you sited when I asked for a source was a 2022 pre season ranking. You are going to have to provide a better source if we are to take you seriously on your rankings. You know exactly where I get my info from and it contradicts your bold statements about KC's O line.

Top 10 pass blocking O lines last season in order from 1-10 were PHI, BAL, GB, TB, SF, KC, CLE, ATL, LV, with JAX & CAR tied at 10th.

I never made a statement about Hurts and how he does or doesn't help the eagles O line. But if the eagles and the chiefs O lines are equal than Hurts makes his O line look better than Mahomes does with his O line.

The eagles were the cream of the crop last season and were better pass blocker's than KC by about 11.3 grading points.

That wasn't a pre season ranking. That's his assessment of the best lines going into the regular season. He had KC as #2.

Mid season he had them at #3.

https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2022-midseason-o-line-rankings/

Going into the playoffs, I can't find his link anymore but it was #1 & #2 again.

Look who's NOT in his top 2 this year going into the 2023 season:

https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2023-offensive-line-rankings/

The Eagles are a team that heavily believes in building up both lines. It's not surprising they're still ranked #1.

It was posted in August of 2022, wasn't it? That was before any meaningful games were even played.

Where is the source for end of season rankings? Mid season doesn't mean much and 2023 preview doesn't necessarily either. Even so, I couldn't read beyond the Lions because I don't have a subscription. So where were the chiefs ranked on that list for the up coming 2023 season?

You don't have too as we were looking at his top tier (i.e. elite). These aren't metric-driven rankings like some of the very odd PFF rankings we see in pre season every year. These are rankings based on SME's as individual OL play and as units. Once the draft and free agency is over, they review the expected OL starters and units and ranks accordingly going into the season. The Chiefs are NOT ranked as an elite 2023 OL this year. They lost key talent from their elite unit last year. That's exactly my point.

They are assessed on every snap and then reevaluated in rankings mid season and going into the playoffs. That's why it's a paid site. A lot of work goes into it. It's like the Greg Cossell of OL but the lines are ALL they study. They understand the nuances of OL play.

Patrick Mahomes knows what's up. 1:00

I don't even look at their pre season stuff. Nor did I even mention pff's pre season rankings on here. So that is odd that you brought that up as a point to argue. I just provided their end of the season rankings. You know after the fact. So where is KC's line ranked on the 2023 preview?

Gotcha. I was just using the PFF position pre season rankings as an example vs. this approach.

I have no idea as it's a pay site. And I don't pay for pay sites. LOL. But that one would be worth it. But often times you can find out via Twitter/X in his threads from fans asking questions on his rankings. If I find them (and us), I'll post here.

Also, I won't be able to see the pre season game tonight until later so let me know what you think including the backups.

You don't even have a subscription but you source that as a site to back up your claims? 🤣

What I did gather from the site is that KC isn't #1. They aren't even projected to be #2.

I probably won't be focusing on just the O line today. But I do have NFL+ so I will certainly be going over the game a few times to focus on certain position groups.

I source and follow BT. The subscription is for full site rankings and other OL vs. DL weekly matchups, etc. More for FF. There is plenty of free info out there from him and the others. I referenced all you needed.

Yup, #2 last year and they certainly aren't in that elite tier ranking this year. So will PM transcend a non-elite OL this year? I'll take that bet!

Same!

I'll take that bet with you NC. If we can short PM due to his Oline regression I'd short it.

The pattern will hold.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Or you just have to hope your depth holds up when you lose one of your starters just like everyone else.

Yeah, Jack Driscoll did not hold up it appears. LOL. They better hope Lane never misses another game.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Or you just have to hope your depth holds up when you lose one of your starters just like everyone else.

Yeah, Jack Driscoll did not hold up it appears. LOL. They better hope Lane never misses another game.

Much like we worry about Trent Williams. Jurgens moved from backup center last season to starting RG this season. Kelce is no spring chicken. I didn't see much quality depth along their interior line either.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Or you just have to hope your depth holds up when you lose one of your starters just like everyone else.

Yeah, Jack Driscoll did not hold up it appears. LOL. They better hope Lane never misses another game.

Much like we worry about Trent Williams. Jurgens moved from backup center last season to starting RG this season. Kelce is no spring chicken. I didn't see much quality depth along their interior line either.

That's probably why they drafted Tyler Steen and moved him to G.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Or you just have to hope your depth holds up when you lose one of your starters just like everyone else.

Yeah, Jack Driscoll did not hold up it appears. LOL. They better hope Lane never misses another game.

Much like we worry about Trent Williams. Jurgens moved from backup center last season to starting RG this season. Kelce is no spring chicken. I didn't see much quality depth along their interior line either.

That's probably why they drafted Tyler Steen and moved him to G.

They did. But is he quality depth? He's a rookie. Its no guarantee he fills in this season and plays well.

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
There are 11 teams on this list because pff had LV and KC tied for 9th.



I can do another list based on pressure% if you all would like? But we have to stop basing our o line play on QB injuries as sacks do not equal injury. We also have to stop judging our o line based on the "eye test" unless of course you watch every snap of every offense every week during the NFL season. Otherwise you are judging them in a vacuum and not against their peers.

With that said, this would be the rankings based on sack%.

1) TB
2) KC
3) JAX
4) GB
5) LV
6) SF
7) CAR
8) PHI
9) BAL
10) CLE
11) ATL

For those who say all you need is an elite QB and the #1 o line and pass rush isn't as important. The GOAT with the #1 PBLK o line lost in the WC round to the #2 ranked pass rush.

I think you need elite play by both through the playoffs. Obviously that helps more if you already have the talent to hit that level when it matters. But we've seen less talented QB's and OL's get hot and win it all too.

It would be ideal to have all 3, no doubt. But that's very rare. And over the past 10 years, it seems the best combo is high end QB + OL > any other combo.

When you've got the talent, as we've seen personally, you have the ability to turn it on when it matters most. Unfortunately we were the opposite of that.

I don't think anybody would confuse our pass rush and unit PP playing at an elite level through the playoffs. How could they when you look at the injuries and talent level starting those games? That's why this is still a hot topic after 7 years.

We saw last night the differences in pressure. When we collapse in unit PP it's the entire unit and usually immediately given our QB no shot whatsoever. Well, no realistic shot anyhow.

Now, if we can get that kind of pressure on a consistent basis from our front 7, that's going to be critical to actually winning a Superbowl, IMHO. Hell like you said, if we get 2 out of the 3, you can pencil us in for #6 right now.

That means a lot is going to come down to Drake Jackson (or whomever) and Colton McKivitz and injuries/depth. How do you feel about our chances there?

I think looking at playoff rankings is a bit skewed. I stated in a previous post the pass rushes that KC and PHI faced during the playoffs. Would either o line have been ranked nearly as high if they faced the pass rushes that the 49ers faced in the playoffs? The answer is I highly doubt it. Would the 49ers pass rush have been more affective against the eagles o line if they weren't forced to play 37 minutes of the game? I would argue that it would have. Imo, If the 49ers o line would have faced the pass rushes that the eagles and chiefs faced in the playoffs and the eagles/chiefs faced the pass rushes that the 49ers faced, the 49ers o line would have been ranked higher than those two in playoff rankings.

I fully agree. Your draw is very important in a small sample size of playoff games against the best competition. It's best to look at the full picture as best you can. Analytics can help. Leaning on the SME's. Putting it altogether.

I personally don't think the talent level we brought to the fight was Championship caliber compared to those who won and set the standard. The teams that won prioritized that standard where Kyle is still trying to coach around it to build up the roster elsewhere.

It doesn't mean we can't win one that way but it's not exactly giving you the best odds, IMHO.

We lost the NFCCG because of a freak injury that put us in a deep whole we were never going to be able to climb out of. That freak injury had zero to do with the o line.

Take your pick in any year. The OL has struggled staying healthy esp. heading into the playoffs. That's why I always say THIS team needs to be at least 7 deep in talent. Those resources have gone to the DL instead.

Agree on the OLine depth. Wish we could have used the Kicker pick on an OLineman. I think the two weakest squads on the team are OLine and DB's. Next year we get our first round pick back and some decent compensatory picks. If Kyle doesn't get a good OLineman in the draft next year, I will be really . Hopefully, the saving grace is Foerster being able to do his McKittrick stuff and coach these journeymen level OLinemen to play all pro - I hope. If Tom Compton can get us to the playoffs, I hope he can coach up McKivits to the big game.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
Or you just have to hope your depth holds up when you lose one of your starters just like everyone else.

Yeah, Jack Driscoll did not hold up it appears. LOL. They better hope Lane never misses another game.

Much like we worry about Trent Williams. Jurgens moved from backup center last season to starting RG this season. Kelce is no spring chicken. I didn't see much quality depth along their interior line either.

That's probably why they drafted Tyler Steen and moved him to G.

They did. But is he quality depth? He's a rookie. Its no guarantee he fills in this season and plays well.

Hopefully we'll find out soon they poorly evaluated and developed him.