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Originally posted by Ensatsu:
Its going to be ugly. Don't have much faith in the starters either. They were reportedly getting whooped by the Raiders at the practices
Originally posted by Hysterikal:
TJ Watt has got to be liking his week 1 matchup
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by9 YACBros85:
The chiefs O line was not neck and neck with the eagles O line. They were top 10 but they were not #2 pushing for #1. So please stop with the overexaggeration.Originally posted by YACBros85:
Context matters. Chiefs O line much like the eagles O line faced the #6 and #17 pass rush to get to the SB. Where would those O line's have been ranked in the playoffs had they faced the #1 and #2 pass rushes?
With all due respect, I'm focusing on the subject matter experts for the entire year on the topic and not PFF. They were elite. I'm not sure how this is even a debate.
So there was only one elite OL (one BT noted as well) all last year?
I understand the desire to believe a QB transcended the OL these days but it's funny how nobody is saying that about Hurts and Philly's OL.
Trying to claim Philly as the only elite OL last year is the real overeggageration, IMHO.
With all due respect. All that you sited when I asked for a source was a 2022 pre season ranking. You are going to have to provide a better source if we are to take you seriously on your rankings. You know exactly where I get my info from and it contradicts your bold statements about KC's O line.
Top 10 pass blocking O lines last season in order from 1-10 were PHI, BAL, GB, TB, SF, KC, CLE, ATL, LV, with JAX & CAR tied at 10th.
I never made a statement about Hurts and how he does or doesn't help the eagles O line. But if the eagles and the chiefs O lines are equal than Hurts makes his O line look better than Mahomes does with his O line.
The eagles were the cream of the crop last season and were better pass blocker's than KC by about 11.3 grading points.
That wasn't a pre season ranking. That's his assessment of the best lines going into the regular season. He had KC as #2.
Mid season he had them at #3.
https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2022-midseason-o-line-rankings/
Going into the playoffs, I can't find his link anymore but it was #1 & #2 again.
Look who's NOT in his top 2 this year going into the 2023 season:
https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2023-offensive-line-rankings/
The Eagles are a team that heavily believes in building up both lines. It's not surprising they're still ranked #1.
It was posted in August of 2022, wasn't it? That was before any meaningful games were even played.
Where is the source for end of season rankings? Mid season doesn't mean much and 2023 preview doesn't necessarily either. Even so, I couldn't read beyond the Lions because I don't have a subscription. So where were the chiefs ranked on that list for the up coming 2023 season?
You don't have too as we were looking at his top tier (i.e. elite). These aren't metric-driven rankings like some of the very odd PFF rankings we see in pre season every year. These are rankings based on SME's as individual OL play and as units. Once the draft and free agency is over, they review the expected OL starters and units and ranks accordingly going into the season. The Chiefs are NOT ranked as an elite 2023 OL this year. They lost key talent from their elite unit last year. That's exactly my point.
They are assessed on every snap and then reevaluated in rankings mid season and going into the playoffs. That's why it's a paid site. A lot of work goes into it. It's like the Greg Cossell of OL but the lines are ALL they study. They understand the nuances of OL play.
Patrick Mahomes knows what's up. 1:00
I don't even look at their pre season stuff. Nor did I even mention pff's pre season rankings on here. So that is odd that you brought that up as a point to argue. I just provided their end of the season rankings. You know after the fact. So where is KC's line ranked on the 2023 preview?
Gotcha. I was just using the PFF position pre season rankings as an example vs. this approach.
I have no idea as it's a pay site. And I don't pay for pay sites. LOL. But that one would be worth it. But often times you can find out via Twitter/X in his threads from fans asking questions on his rankings. If I find them (and us), I'll post here.
Also, I won't be able to see the pre season game tonight until later so let me know what you think including the backups.
You don't even have a subscription but you source that as a site to back up your claims? 🤣
What I did gather from the site is that KC isn't #1. They aren't even projected to be #2.
I probably won't be focusing on just the O line today. But I do have NFL+ so I will certainly be going over the game a few times to focus on certain position groups.
I source and follow BT. The subscription is for full site rankings and other OL vs. DL weekly matchups, etc. More for FF. There is plenty of free info out there from him and the others. I referenced all you needed.
Yup, #2 last year and they certainly aren't in that elite tier ranking this year. So will PM transcend a non-elite OL this year? I'll take that bet!
Same!
You have yet to source where KC's O line ranked #2 at the end of the 2022 season.
Patrick Mahomes' MVP-type season has been at least partially fueled by a strong offensive line. The #Chiefs check in third among the 14 playoff teams. pic.twitter.com/J8MQeAHAgT
— Establish The Run (@EstablishTheRun) January 11, 2023
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by9 YACBros85:
The chiefs O line was not neck and neck with the eagles O line. They were top 10 but they were not #2 pushing for #1. So please stop with the overexaggeration.Originally posted by YACBros85:
Context matters. Chiefs O line much like the eagles O line faced the #6 and #17 pass rush to get to the SB. Where would those O line's have been ranked in the playoffs had they faced the #1 and #2 pass rushes?
With all due respect, I'm focusing on the subject matter experts for the entire year on the topic and not PFF. They were elite. I'm not sure how this is even a debate.
So there was only one elite OL (one BT noted as well) all last year?
I understand the desire to believe a QB transcended the OL these days but it's funny how nobody is saying that about Hurts and Philly's OL.
Trying to claim Philly as the only elite OL last year is the real overeggageration, IMHO.
With all due respect. All that you sited when I asked for a source was a 2022 pre season ranking. You are going to have to provide a better source if we are to take you seriously on your rankings. You know exactly where I get my info from and it contradicts your bold statements about KC's O line.
Top 10 pass blocking O lines last season in order from 1-10 were PHI, BAL, GB, TB, SF, KC, CLE, ATL, LV, with JAX & CAR tied at 10th.
I never made a statement about Hurts and how he does or doesn't help the eagles O line. But if the eagles and the chiefs O lines are equal than Hurts makes his O line look better than Mahomes does with his O line.
The eagles were the cream of the crop last season and were better pass blocker's than KC by about 11.3 grading points.
That wasn't a pre season ranking. That's his assessment of the best lines going into the regular season. He had KC as #2.
Mid season he had them at #3.
https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2022-midseason-o-line-rankings/
Going into the playoffs, I can't find his link anymore but it was #1 & #2 again.
Look who's NOT in his top 2 this year going into the 2023 season:
https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2023-offensive-line-rankings/
The Eagles are a team that heavily believes in building up both lines. It's not surprising they're still ranked #1.
It was posted in August of 2022, wasn't it? That was before any meaningful games were even played.
Where is the source for end of season rankings? Mid season doesn't mean much and 2023 preview doesn't necessarily either. Even so, I couldn't read beyond the Lions because I don't have a subscription. So where were the chiefs ranked on that list for the up coming 2023 season?
You don't have too as we were looking at his top tier (i.e. elite). These aren't metric-driven rankings like some of the very odd PFF rankings we see in pre season every year. These are rankings based on SME's as individual OL play and as units. Once the draft and free agency is over, they review the expected OL starters and units and ranks accordingly going into the season. The Chiefs are NOT ranked as an elite 2023 OL this year. They lost key talent from their elite unit last year. That's exactly my point.
They are assessed on every snap and then reevaluated in rankings mid season and going into the playoffs. That's why it's a paid site. A lot of work goes into it. It's like the Greg Cossell of OL but the lines are ALL they study. They understand the nuances of OL play.
Patrick Mahomes knows what's up. 1:00
I don't even look at their pre season stuff. Nor did I even mention pff's pre season rankings on here. So that is odd that you brought that up as a point to argue. I just provided their end of the season rankings. You know after the fact. So where is KC's line ranked on the 2023 preview?
Gotcha. I was just using the PFF position pre season rankings as an example vs. this approach.
I have no idea as it's a pay site. And I don't pay for pay sites. LOL. But that one would be worth it. But often times you can find out via Twitter/X in his threads from fans asking questions on his rankings. If I find them (and us), I'll post here.
Also, I won't be able to see the pre season game tonight until later so let me know what you think including the backups.
You don't even have a subscription but you source that as a site to back up your claims? 🤣
What I did gather from the site is that KC isn't #1. They aren't even projected to be #2.
I probably won't be focusing on just the O line today. But I do have NFL+ so I will certainly be going over the game a few times to focus on certain position groups.
I source and follow BT. The subscription is for full site rankings and other OL vs. DL weekly matchups, etc. More for FF. There is plenty of free info out there from him and the others. I referenced all you needed.
Yup, #2 last year and they certainly aren't in that elite tier ranking this year. So will PM transcend a non-elite OL this year? I'll take that bet!
Same!
You have yet to source where KC's O line ranked #2 at the end of the 2022 season.
Going into the season: #2 of 32
Mid-season: #3 of 32
Playoffs: #3 of 14
Patrick Mahomes' MVP-type season has been at least partially fueled by a strong offensive line. The #Chiefs check in third among the 14 playoff teams. pic.twitter.com/J8MQeAHAgT
— Establish The Run (@EstablishTheRun) January 11, 2023
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by YACBros85:
Originally posted by NCommand:
Originally posted by9 YACBros85:
The chiefs O line was not neck and neck with the eagles O line. They were top 10 but they were not #2 pushing for #1. So please stop with the overexaggeration.Originally posted by YACBros85:
Context matters. Chiefs O line much like the eagles O line faced the #6 and #17 pass rush to get to the SB. Where would those O line's have been ranked in the playoffs had they faced the #1 and #2 pass rushes?
With all due respect, I'm focusing on the subject matter experts for the entire year on the topic and not PFF. They were elite. I'm not sure how this is even a debate.
So there was only one elite OL (one BT noted as well) all last year?
I understand the desire to believe a QB transcended the OL these days but it's funny how nobody is saying that about Hurts and Philly's OL.
Trying to claim Philly as the only elite OL last year is the real overeggageration, IMHO.
With all due respect. All that you sited when I asked for a source was a 2022 pre season ranking. You are going to have to provide a better source if we are to take you seriously on your rankings. You know exactly where I get my info from and it contradicts your bold statements about KC's O line.
Top 10 pass blocking O lines last season in order from 1-10 were PHI, BAL, GB, TB, SF, KC, CLE, ATL, LV, with JAX & CAR tied at 10th.
I never made a statement about Hurts and how he does or doesn't help the eagles O line. But if the eagles and the chiefs O lines are equal than Hurts makes his O line look better than Mahomes does with his O line.
The eagles were the cream of the crop last season and were better pass blocker's than KC by about 11.3 grading points.
That wasn't a pre season ranking. That's his assessment of the best lines going into the regular season. He had KC as #2.
Mid season he had them at #3.
https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2022-midseason-o-line-rankings/
Going into the playoffs, I can't find his link anymore but it was #1 & #2 again.
Look who's NOT in his top 2 this year going into the 2023 season:
https://establishtherun.com/thorn-2023-offensive-line-rankings/
The Eagles are a team that heavily believes in building up both lines. It's not surprising they're still ranked #1.
It was posted in August of 2022, wasn't it? That was before any meaningful games were even played.
Where is the source for end of season rankings? Mid season doesn't mean much and 2023 preview doesn't necessarily either. Even so, I couldn't read beyond the Lions because I don't have a subscription. So where were the chiefs ranked on that list for the up coming 2023 season?
You don't have too as we were looking at his top tier (i.e. elite). These aren't metric-driven rankings like some of the very odd PFF rankings we see in pre season every year. These are rankings based on SME's as individual OL play and as units. Once the draft and free agency is over, they review the expected OL starters and units and ranks accordingly going into the season. The Chiefs are NOT ranked as an elite 2023 OL this year. They lost key talent from their elite unit last year. That's exactly my point.
They are assessed on every snap and then reevaluated in rankings mid season and going into the playoffs. That's why it's a paid site. A lot of work goes into it. It's like the Greg Cossell of OL but the lines are ALL they study. They understand the nuances of OL play.
Patrick Mahomes knows what's up. 1:00
I don't even look at their pre season stuff. Nor did I even mention pff's pre season rankings on here. So that is odd that you brought that up as a point to argue. I just provided their end of the season rankings. You know after the fact. So where is KC's line ranked on the 2023 preview?
Gotcha. I was just using the PFF position pre season rankings as an example vs. this approach.
I have no idea as it's a pay site. And I don't pay for pay sites. LOL. But that one would be worth it. But often times you can find out via Twitter/X in his threads from fans asking questions on his rankings. If I find them (and us), I'll post here.
Also, I won't be able to see the pre season game tonight until later so let me know what you think including the backups.
You don't even have a subscription but you source that as a site to back up your claims? 🤣
What I did gather from the site is that KC isn't #1. They aren't even projected to be #2.
I probably won't be focusing on just the O line today. But I do have NFL+ so I will certainly be going over the game a few times to focus on certain position groups.
I source and follow BT. The subscription is for full site rankings and other OL vs. DL weekly matchups, etc. More for FF. There is plenty of free info out there from him and the others. I referenced all you needed.
Yup, #2 last year and they certainly aren't in that elite tier ranking this year. So will PM transcend a non-elite OL this year? I'll take that bet!
Same!
You have yet to source where KC's O line ranked #2 at the end of the 2022 season.
Going into the season: #2 of 32
Mid-season: #3 of 32
Playoffs: #3 of 14
Patrick Mahomes' MVP-type season has been at least partially fueled by a strong offensive line. The #Chiefs check in third among the 14 playoff teams. pic.twitter.com/J8MQeAHAgT
— Establish The Run (@EstablishTheRun) January 11, 2023
Finally. Thank you. It only took 2 days. 🤣
Originally posted by 49ERGLENN:
Unfortunately,I have said that for the last 3 drafts that should have tried, and I emphaize try, to draft OL! Or sign a FA OL, but that is also tough as not many come free in this league. But unfortunately it is what is and we can't cry over spilt milk, we just have to forge forward with what we have, and pray it's enough!
Originally posted by Ensatsu:
Originally posted by 49ERGLENN:
Unfortunately,I have said that for the last 3 drafts that should have tried, and I emphaize try, to draft OL! Or sign a FA OL, but that is also tough as not many come free in this league. But unfortunately it is what is and we can't cry over spilt milk, we just have to forge forward with what we have, and pray it's enough!
Its okay. PFF will say our offensive line is a top 5 unit (*** because of run blocking)
Originally posted by bassmanr:Lol, you don't get that far in the playoffs or make the playoffs with an OL that gets its ass kicked
Originally posted by Ensatsu:
Originally posted by 49ERGLENN:
Unfortunately,I have said that for the last 3 drafts that should have tried, and I emphaize try, to draft OL! Or sign a FA OL, but that is also tough as not many come free in this league. But unfortunately it is what is and we can't cry over spilt milk, we just have to forge forward with what we have, and pray it's enough!
Its okay. PFF will say our offensive line is a top 5 unit (*** because of run blocking)
Seriously...I can't believe they have been rated so high last year. Have whoever judges watch last year's playoff games other than some decent run blocking they got their a$$ kicked. This years the line is not as good as last years from what I've read and seen.
Hope I'm wrong but they are going to kill Purdy in Pittsburgh if they don't start playing well soon.
Originally posted by Ensatsu:
Originally posted by 49ERGLENN:
Unfortunately,I have said that for the last 3 drafts that should have tried, and I emphaize try, to draft OL! Or sign a FA OL, but that is also tough as not many come free in this league. But unfortunately it is what is and we can't cry over spilt milk, we just have to forge forward with what we have, and pray it's enough!
Its okay. PFF will say our offensive line is a top 5 unit (*** because of run blocking)
Originally posted by YACBros85:
There are 11 teams on this list because pff had LV and KC tied for 9th.
I can do another list based on pressure% if you all would like? But we have to stop basing our o line play on QB injuries as sacks do not equal injury. We also have to stop judging our o line based on the "eye test" unless of course you watch every snap of every offense every week during the NFL season. Otherwise you are judging them in a vacuum and not against their peers.
With that said, this would be the rankings based on sack%.
1) TB
2) KC
3) JAX
4) GB
5) LV
6) SF
7) CAR
8) PHI
9) BAL
10) CLE
11) ATL
For those who say all you need is an elite QB and the #1 o line and pass rush isn't as important. The GOAT with the #1 PBLK o line lost in the WC round to the #2 ranked pass rush.