49ers Offensive Line

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:
It's also to negate all the elite QB play we have seen in the last decade as simply a byproduct of pass protection.

haha I guess that's why he waits till the Lombardi is hoisted in the air every year before he declares who really had the best OLine?

Originally posted by NCommand:
Well, no, because we've seen that same QB really struggle without it. They are intimately tied together. Obviously he's a unicorn in that he can make up for a few plays here and there more than anyone in history but there's a tipping point for all great QB's there. Even him. You need both. Simple as that. That's your best bet in today's game.

Can we win it all by prioritizing a dominant run game and DL instead of QB + OL? Year 7, let's find out!

When?! If you're talking about the Superbowl when they lost like 3 starters, including 2 a week before the Superbowl lol come on. That was a freak occurrence. Mahomes struggled in ONE GAME (just so happened to be the sb).

You need good everything, not just OL. But I guarantee EVERY TEAM in the NFL would take mahomes and a so so line vs. dak Prescott/Kirk cousins/whoever and an elite line. 100% of the teams take mahomes. That tells you what you need to know about the chiefs OL

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I also believe that looking at playoff rankings is a bit skewed because an O line facing the two best pass rushes in the league is going to affect an O line's performance more than facing the 20th ranked pass rush and a 7th ranked pass rush who was on the field for 37 minutes due to an offense having both hands tied behind its back.

A dominant PP doesn't care what PR you bring.

True, BT just notes the talent level going in, their play as a unit, etc. That doesn't mean they'll end up matching that ranking when it's all said and done (esp. when factoring in their draw). Of course, you can say that about any ranking-position.

That said, Philly and KC were pretty much the top 2 by everyone on planet earth and it wasn't a surprise to see them face off in the Superbowl.

Nah. Not really. I had an 80% win rate with my playoff prediction formula. The 49ers and eagles were equally matched on paper and the game could have gone either way if Brock didn't suffer a freak injury. But KC...they actually defied all odds.

Ah yeah! Are you going to do that again this year?

I am. I am going to run it throughout the season. First I am going to just run the numbers for last years playoff teams and their opponents each week and than any other team(s) that stand out after the first 8 weeks of the season.

Outstanding. You might be able to start up a business soon. Keep me posted!

Originally posted by 9ers4eva:

Originally posted by random49er:
Guy is suggesting that "dominant pass protection" has never been neutralized by a better pass rush.

Nevermind how untrue this circular garb is, I guess. The goal isin't simply to discuss our OLine anyway.

It's to teach everyone that offensive linemen are important,...and that very few (if anybody else here) understands this, lol.

It's also to negate all the elite QB play we have seen in the last decade as simply a byproduct of pass protection.

I'm not negating anything. I've said you need "both" since the dawn of time. And even when the elites don't have that, they suffer too. No elite OL can save a team either from non-elite QB play at the time of the playoffs. The correlation is about as strong as you'll get. Like the injury and turnover correlation.

We haven't had both yet going into the playoffs...not individually, not together.

Until we do, we'll continue to have these team building debates.

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Well, no, because we've seen that same QB really struggle without it. They are intimately tied together. Obviously he's a unicorn in that he can make up for a few plays here and there more than anyone in history but there's a tipping point for all great QB's there. Even him. You need both. Simple as that. That's your best bet in today's game.

Can we win it all by prioritizing a dominant run game and DL instead of QB + OL? Year 7, let's find out!

When?! If you're talking about the Superbowl when they lost like 3 starters, including 2 a week before the Superbowl lol come on. That was a freak occurrence. Mahomes struggled in ONE GAME (just so happened to be the sb).

You need good everything, not just OL. But I guarantee EVERY TEAM in the NFL would take mahomes and a so so line vs. dak Prescott/Kirk cousins/whoever and an elite line. 100% of the teams take mahomes. That tells you what you need to know about the chiefs OL

Welcome to the point.

Andy Reid knows. When you have an elite QB, you do everything in your power to get him the best OL possible. That goes for any intelligent FO. Even with a unicorn QB.

Originally posted by NCommand:
Welcome to the point.

Andy Reid knows. When you have an elite QB, you do everything in your power to get him the best OL possible. That goes for any intelligent FO. Even with a unicorn QB.

A unicorn QB is drastically more valuable than an elite ol. As I said before, 32 out of 32 teams take mahomes + mediocre OL vs dak/Kirk or whoever and an elite line. What does that tell you?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I also believe that looking at playoff rankings is a bit skewed because an O line facing the two best pass rushes in the league is going to affect an O line's performance more than facing the 20th ranked pass rush and a 7th ranked pass rush who was on the field for 37 minutes due to an offense having both hands tied behind its back.

A dominant PP doesn't care what PR you bring.

True, BT just notes the talent level going in, their play as a unit, etc. That doesn't mean they'll end up matching that ranking when it's all said and done (esp. when factoring in their draw). Of course, you can say that about any ranking-position.

That said, Philly and KC were pretty much the top 2 by everyone on planet earth and it wasn't a surprise to see them face off in the Superbowl.

Nah. Not really. I had an 80% win rate with my playoff prediction formula. The 49ers and eagles were equally matched on paper and the game could have gone either way if Brock didn't suffer a freak injury. But KC...they actually defied all odds.

Ah yeah! Are you going to do that again this year?

I am. I am going to run it throughout the season. First I am going to just run the numbers for last years playoff teams and their opponents each week and than any other team(s) that stand out after the first 8 weeks of the season.

Outstanding. You might be able to start up a business soon. Keep me posted!

The biggest question is. Do I go with the formula when its up against Patrick Mahomes?

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Well, no, because we've seen that same QB really struggle without it. They are intimately tied together. Obviously he's a unicorn in that he can make up for a few plays here and there more than anyone in history but there's a tipping point for all great QB's there. Even him. You need both. Simple as that. That's your best bet in today's game.

Can we win it all by prioritizing a dominant run game and DL instead of QB + OL? Year 7, let's find out!

When?! If you're talking about the Superbowl when they lost like 3 starters, including 2 a week before the Superbowl lol come on. That was a freak occurrence. Mahomes struggled in ONE GAME (just so happened to be the sb).

You need good everything, not just OL. But I guarantee EVERY TEAM in the NFL would take mahomes and a so so line vs. dak Prescott/Kirk cousins/whoever and an elite line. 100% of the teams take mahomes. That tells you what you need to know about the chiefs OL

Welcome to the point.

Andy Reid knows. When you have an elite QB, you do everything in your power to get him the best OL possible. That goes for any intelligent FO. Even with a unicorn QB.

But we have K. Shanahan, who shops at the 99 cent store for his interior OL players.

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Welcome to the point.

Andy Reid knows. When you have an elite QB, you do everything in your power to get him the best OL possible. That goes for any intelligent FO. Even with a unicorn QB.

A unicorn QB is drastically more valuable than an elite ol. As I said before, 32 out of 32 teams take mahomes + mediocre OL vs dak/Kirk or whoever and an elite line. What does that tell you?

Mahomes does not have a mediocre oline.

Originally posted by Alfienator:

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by NCommand:
Welcome to the point.

Andy Reid knows. When you have an elite QB, you do everything in your power to get him the best OL possible. That goes for any intelligent FO. Even with a unicorn QB.

A unicorn QB is drastically more valuable than an elite ol. As I said before, 32 out of 32 teams take mahomes + mediocre OL vs dak/Kirk or whoever and an elite line. What does that tell you?

Mahomes does not have a mediocre oline.

He did in the SB against TB. They lost a couple guys from the previous year and were in terrible shape. They did a rebuild after that loss and now have a solid O line.

Originally posted by YACBros85:
49ers had to face the #2 (DAL) pass rush and the #1 (PHI) pass rush in order to make it into the SB. While PHI had to face the 20th (NYG) ranked pass rush and the 7th (SF) ranked pass rush to make it to the SB. Simply, PHI's O line had a much easier path to the SB than the 49ers.

They need to have a better record and they will have the easier road in the playoffs. Philly had a bye week while the 49er had to play the Seahawks. I think this is a Kyle Shanahan problem. He runs training camp easier and want to get everyone onto the season healthy. One and a half hour practices stuff like that. I understand why he does it. However I feel the team as a hole come into the season a little out of shape and slow. The first 5 week they are still getting into shape so the team starts 2-3 or 3-2 something like that ? Last year they lost to the Bear, Broncos, and Falcons early. I feel that because of the slow starts to the seasons the end of the regular season are almost playoff games and the 49er player run out of gas during the playoffs, emotionally and physically.

Originally posted by Alfienator:
Mahomes does not have a mediocre oline.

Never said he did. I said IF given the choice of having mahomes and a mediocre line or dak Prescott/whatever decent qb and an elite line, 32/32 teams choose mahomes.

In other words, my point from the beginning is that the chiefs didnt have some incredible OL unit. They had a great interior and bad to average tackles. The reason the bad to a erage tackles didn't matter is because they had an elite qb

Originally posted by dlance:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
49ers had to face the #2 (DAL) pass rush and the #1 (PHI) pass rush in order to make it into the SB. While PHI had to face the 20th (NYG) ranked pass rush and the 7th (SF) ranked pass rush to make it to the SB. Simply, PHI's O line had a much easier path to the SB than the 49ers.

They need to have a better record and they will have the easier road in the playoffs. Philly had a bye week while the 49er had to play the Seahawks. I think this is a Kyle Shanahan problem. He runs training camp easier and want to get everyone onto the season healthy. One and a half hour practices stuff like that. I understand why he does it. However I feel the team as a hole come into the season a little out of shape and slow. The first 5 week they are still getting into shape so the team starts 2-3 or 3-2 something like that ? Last year they lost to the Bear, Broncos, and Falcons early. I feel that because of the slow starts to the seasons the end of the regular season are almost playoff games and the 49er player run out of gas during the playoffs, emotionally and physically.

That is a reaonable take. We do need to get off to a faster start so we can give ourselves an easier path in the playoffs.

Originally posted by frenchmov:

Originally posted by Alfienator:
Mahomes does not have a mediocre oline.

Never said he did. I said IF given the choice of having mahomes and a mediocre line or dak Prescott/whatever decent qb and an elite line, 32/32 teams choose mahomes.

In other words, my point from the beginning is that the chiefs didnt have some incredible OL unit. They had a great interior and bad to average tackles. The reason the bad to a erage tackles didn't matter is because they had an elite qb

The mediocre chiefs oline held the vaunted eagles dline to ZERO sacks in the superbowl. The mediocre chiefs oline held the vaunted niners dline to ZERO sacks in the superbowl.

Protecting Mamommes is mandatory. The chiefs showed last year that you don't need to pay big money to wrs or running backs by letting hill go. Oline is more important.

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:

Originally posted by NCommand:

Originally posted by YACBros85:
I also believe that looking at playoff rankings is a bit skewed because an O line facing the two best pass rushes in the league is going to affect an O line's performance more than facing the 20th ranked pass rush and a 7th ranked pass rush who was on the field for 37 minutes due to an offense having both hands tied behind its back.

A dominant PP doesn't care what PR you bring.

True, BT just notes the talent level going in, their play as a unit, etc. That doesn't mean they'll end up matching that ranking when it's all said and done (esp. when factoring in their draw). Of course, you can say that about any ranking-position.

That said, Philly and KC were pretty much the top 2 by everyone on planet earth and it wasn't a surprise to see them face off in the Superbowl.

Nah. Not really. I had an 80% win rate with my playoff prediction formula. The 49ers and eagles were equally matched on paper and the game could have gone either way if Brock didn't suffer a freak injury. But KC...they actually defied all odds.

Ah yeah! Are you going to do that again this year?

I am. I am going to run it throughout the season. First I am going to just run the numbers for last years playoff teams and their opponents each week and than any other team(s) that stand out after the first 8 weeks of the season.

Outstanding. You might be able to start up a business soon. Keep me posted!

The biggest question is. Do I go with the formula when its up against Patrick Mahomes?

Haha. That's awesome. I'd certainly adjust your formula a tad on that one. He and Burrows would be the only ones I'd adjust a bit for.